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Dr. Mark "McSteamy" Sloan: Plastics Extraordinaire


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#781

AnitaMC

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 6:58 PM

I wanna know when has Mark intentionally or maliciously tried to break Calzona up or come between them in some way besides the obvious sex and baby(and they were apart at the time, anyway)?


I don't think Mark has done anything with mean intentions but I also don't think Mark realizes his intentions are hurting Calzona as a couple. The sex and baby are huge deals, under any circumstance, and it makes anyone nervous enough to not believe come in between them, especially with the conversation in the musical implying that even if Callie loses the baby, 'they can make another' to which I gather is that Mark can do this with Callie again, unlike Arizona. Mark may not be intentionally trying to mess with Calzona but he is and the only one who realizes it is Arizona.

Mark hasn't realized that he is a major issue on the Calzona relationship, which he is. He is not on purpose trying to sabotage them but he isn't helping the situation either.

I'm pretty sure that Mark would still be with Lexie. I'm also pretty sure that Mark doesn't want Callie in a sexual way and the drunken, needy sex doesn't count because he didn't initiate it.


That, I don't know. Even if he didn't initiate it, he didn't stop it either. If he wasn't interested in her sexually, would he have gone through with it? It does count because it happened. There are many other ways to make another person feel better, sex isn't the only one. If Callie went for him to be a couple, I'm sure he would go for it. I don't think he really loves Lexie. He just wants someone.

Since Callie doesn't tell him differently, he doesn't see why he should act differently.


This. This is the root of the problem. We can go around in circles deciding who is who and what is doing what to who, I think that the moment Callie fixes this boundary issue, there won't be a solution. Arizona can manage to accept Mark all that Callie wants but until Mark butts out of issues that don't involve him, there won't be any resolution to this Bermuda Triangle from Hell.

#782

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 7:16 PM

I don't think Mark has done anything with mean intentions but I also don't think Mark realizes his intentions are hurting Calzona as a couple.


Agreed! Although Mark is the foremost plastic surgeon (or whatever) I don't think he is the smartest tool in the shed when it comes to emotions and relationships. Because lets face it.. Mark has never really done relationships well and the only decent one we have seen him in he royally messed up... twice.

Mark doesn't understand relationships so probably doesn't understand the damage he has been causing to the C/A relationship. I don't think he is malicious (and I think what he said to Arizona was in the heat of the moment) but I believe that he genuinely can't see the problem with screwing Callie again to make another baby. That is just the way his mind works. He doesn't (and quite frankly Callie doesn't that much either) equate sex with love/relationships/emotions. And that is fine. However, Arizona obviously does and that is where the tension lies. She struggles to get over the Mallie sex because she obviously places a lot more significance on it (and sex in general) than either Mark or Callie. And again that is fine - it just causes tension because these characters place different values on different things.

Edited by LizH, Apr 6, 2011 @ 7:17 PM.


#783

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 7:36 PM

I don't think Mark has done anything with mean intentions but I also don't think Mark realizes his intentions are hurting Calzona as a couple. The sex and baby are huge deals, under any circumstance, and it makes anyone nervous enough to not believe come in between them, especially with the conversation in the musical implying that even if Callie loses the baby, 'they can make another' to which I gather is that Mark can do this with Callie again, unlike Arizona.

Word. He told Arizona "Yeah, we screwed! What's the big deal?" and I don't think it was just that he was upset about Callie, I actually think that he is of the opinion that she should just let it go and accept things as they are. But he is forgetting that he himself thought it was a huge fucking deal when Lexie slept with Alex when they were broken up. He treated Lexie like she was some kind of scarlet woman and threw hizzy fits at Alex several times. Mark has different rules for himself. He can whore around the hospital all he wants, but his ex can't sleep with one guy. He can sleep with his BFF and knock her up and expects her girlfriend to just accept and get over it, but when something similar happened to him, he whined about it for months. That's what grates with Mark IMO.

Even if he didn't initiate it, he didn't stop it either. If he wasn't interested in her sexually, would he have gone through with it? It does count because it happened. There are many other ways to make another person feel better, sex isn't the only one.

Right. I usually think Mark is a good, supportive friend to Callie (even though he causes unintentional harm to her relationship), but I think he really failed her as a friend when he slept with her again. Yes, she asked him to, but she was broken and drunk. Sex eyes was the last thing she was giving him. If he'd been more intuitive (and not letting his dick lead the way), he would have realized that sex was the last thing Callie needed. IMO this was confirmed by the look on her face afterward, and in the next episode when she said sleeping with him just made her sad.

I believe that he genuinely can't see the problem with screwing Callie again to make another baby. That is just the way his mind works. He doesn't (and quite frankly Callie doesn't that much either) equate sex with love/relationships/emotions.

I agree with about 50 %. :) I don't think he would see the problem with him screwing Callie to have another baby (although I really don't think Callie would do that if she's with AZ, but I digress), but I think that sex means something to him, even if it's just rarely. Because if the situation was reversed, if he and Lexie were an item still and he couldn't get her pregnant... Would he be fine with her screwing Alex to have a baby? Hell no! That's different. How? Because there's Mark, and then there's other people.

#784

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 7:47 PM

He doesn't (and quite frankly Callie doesn't that much either) equate sex with love/relationships/emotions. And that is fine. However, Arizona obviously does and that is where the tension lies. She struggles to get over the Mallie sex because she obviously places a lot more significance on it (and sex in general) than either Mark or Callie. And again that is fine - it just causes tension because these characters place different values on different things.


Arizona seemed uncomfortable with the Mark/Callie closeness even prior to their sleeping together after the breakup. Even Lexie was uncomfortable with some of things she was seeing. Post Mallie-sex plus pregnancy, Arizona is now even more on edge because it's like her fears were confirmed in a way and she knows if she wants to keep Callie she's got to accept that she's stuck with Mark forever no matter how much it sucks. Lexie, for her part, saw that trainwreck coming and got the hell out of there before the baby was born because the last time Mallie came up she was the one who tried to tell Callie about their inappropriateness and clearly she didn't get it that time or now.

And I think I might have talked about this before but Mark's track record with relationships and boundary issues in friendships isn't great. Look at his relationship with his other best friend Derek. He slept with all of the guy's sisters even though Derek wasn't exactly ok with it then he slept with the guy's wife and got her pregnant. Does anybody really think that if Derek had decided to forgive Addie and stay in that marriage that he would have been cool with Mark hanging around all the damn time? He wouldn't. And Callie should know exactly how Arizona must feel because she felt the exact same way when she was going through Gizzie drama, pre and post affair.

Edited by Turkish, Apr 6, 2011 @ 7:54 PM.


#785

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 8:56 PM

Mark hasn't realized that he is a major issue on the Calzona relationship, which he is. He is not on purpose trying to sabotage them but he isn't helping the situation either.

I disagree. Mark clearly knows he is causing problems for the C/A relationship. Otherwise, he wouldn't have told Arizona to "get over it." He knows that his having had sex with Callie recently is a problem for Arizona. Mark may not personally think sex is a big deal, but he totally understands that Arizona does. He just doesn't understand that the sex (which wasn't just a ONS, but lasted months) isn't the full problem, or even the brunt of it. It isn't the sex alone that is the problem for Arizona, it is the emotional intimacy and the co-dependence of the Mallie friendship. And that part I don't think Mark understands. I think Callie must subconsciously get it, because in her dream during the musical, she fantasized about having ignored Mark. But consciously, she can't stop herself. Which makes her the problem, really.

While ITA that Mark doesn't grasp just how big a problem he is for the C/A relationship, he does get that he is a problem. So he might not be purposefully trying to cause problems for them, but he surely must know he isn't making things any easier by constantly criticizing Arizona, telling her how he loves Callie more than she does, or that he'll sleep with Callie again to make another baby, etc. Those kinds of comments don't indicate Mark is purposefully trying to sabotage the C/A relationship, just that he isn't bothered by being a problem. He doesn't seem willing to put forth an effort to make things any easier for Arizona. Which itself is a problem, if you ask me.

#786

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 11:02 PM

Mark clearly knows he is causing problems for the C/A relationship. Otherwise, he wouldn't have told Arizona to "get over it." He knows that his having had sex with Callie recently is a problem for Arizona. Mark may not personally think sex is a big deal, but he totally understands that Arizona does.


I agree about 50%, LOL. I agree that he knows he's causing trouble for Arizona, not Callie. That's what I took from his comments, that he knows he is an issue to Arizona but that it doesn't matter in Calzona as one because Callie doesn't care. I want to give Mark the benefit of the doubt and think he's not that stupid to not believe that he isn't a problem in the general sense but it seems to him that as long as Callie says it's OK, that it really is. As I said before, he even think it's OK for them to "screw" again to make another baby, have they lose this child. So for him to be in the middle will always be alright if Callie allows him so.

He can sleep with his BFF and knock her up and expects her girlfriend to just accept and get over it, but when something similar happened to him, he whined about it for months.


I hated this. Hated hated. And remember Mark started to whine about Jaxie in the car...I really don't understand this Mark.

#787

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 11:04 PM

On the I'll make another baby with Callie, get over it stuff. I kind of feel the same as Mark. In that context during that conversation when Arizona wanted to save Mark and Callie's baby and he wanted to save Callie, I just think Mark was saying if it's another Mallie baby you are worried than those are easy to come by. Sure it was wrong but in the heat of the moment things come out in ways they shouldn't. And Arizona does need to move on from them sleeping together. Her dwelling on it is only making her bitter and at this point in time bringing it up over and over is not doing her any favors.

While ITA that Mark doesn't grasp just how big a problem he is for the C/A relationship, he does get that he is a problem. So he might not be purposefully trying to cause problems for them, but he surely must know he isn't making things any easier by constantly criticizing Arizona, telling her how he loves Callie more than she does, or that he'll sleep with Callie again to make another baby, etc. Those kinds of comments don't indicate Mark is purposefully trying to sabotage the C/A relationship, just that he isn't bothered by being a problem. He doesn't seem willing to put forth an effort to make things any easier for Arizona. Which itself is a problem, if you ask me.


All the stuff you mentioned happened in the last episode which is a crisis episode as most things are on this show. And for all the criticizing of Arizona that Mark does, Arizona usually initiates it or responds in kind which I think is a major problem as well. I think Mark doesn't have many people who understand him and accept him for who and what he is and when he thought he was going to lose Callie he lashed out. At Arizona because she was the one person in his eyes endangering her life. She was trying to make him choose between a baby that while he may love, he doesn't know yet or his bff Callie and the choice for him was obvious. And him telling her that he loved Callie more is from her not actively deciding to save her life.

While I somewhat agree with all that, I think that's mostly a Callie thing as well. Mark doesn't do any of those things without Callie's acceptance of it. It takes two to tango and all that. My opinion may stem from the fact that I understand Mark better than I do Callie or Arizona. I certainly like him better than them. It may also stem from the fact that I don't think Callie and Arizona's relationship is right. It is not built on a strong enough foundation for me to care if it will work out or not. They don't talk to each other and I sort of feel like it's full of resentments and misunderstandings that could be resolved if they had a ten minute conversation. Every decision is made in crisis mode and when the crisis is over they are stuck with a hasty decision that neither of them really want.

Sure Mark and Callie having a symbiotic relationship doesn't help them but I don't think it's hurting it any more than anything else. If it wasn't Mark it would be something else. I just think this is just a sample of the bad relationship writing on this show.

Shonda does this kind of thing all the time and it's just a mess. If she had allowed Mark to grow and really change all these past seasons then we wouldn't be here right now. Mark is exactly who he was when he appeared on the show, I love him but it's kind of ridiculous. On the same token why should he have to change? I feel bad for Mark because he is always seen as skeevy or un-genuine because he is free with his favors and he's arrogant but who on this show isn't?

I think sex is Mark's currency. That's the best thing he can give someone to comfort them. Which is why I believe he didn't turn Callie down that night. What was he going to do, talk to her? He doesn't have those kind of people skills. So he did what he does best, and he gave her what she asked for. And that's a problem as well. She went to Mark for sex because that is what she expects from him. And maybe that's why he sleeps with a lot of people. Every time he tries the no sex, get to know you thing he gets rejected. It's happened with Addison a few times, Callie and Lexie as well.

We don't know much about Mark do we? I would be very interested in knowing more. People who have sex with a lot of people usually have deeper issues. Does anyone else remember what was said about Mark's childhood with Derek?

Edited by blugirlami21, Apr 6, 2011 @ 11:10 PM.


#788

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 11:10 PM

And remember Mark started to whine about Jaxie in the car...I really don't understand this Mark.


This is SO true. I never thought about it like that. He tells Arizona to get over him 'screwing' Callie but he spent a season whining about Lexie and Alex and has now moved onto Lexie and Jackson. Double standards much?

#789

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 11:53 PM

I think sex is Mark's currency. That's the best thing he can give someone to comfort them. Which is why I believe he didn't turn Callie down that night. What was he going to do, talk to her? He doesn't have those kind of people skills.

Sure he does. He talks to Callie about everything, and she talks to him. This isn't like in S4, when she genuinely had no idea what to do with him unless they were having sex. But they've been best friends since S5 and had not had sex since then. So of course he could have talked to her. He usually has some kind words and (sometimes) decent advice and a hug for her if she needs it. And IMO, that's what she needed. Sleeping with someone who is broken hearted, drunk and emotional is just a bad idea overall, and I feel like he could have been a much better friend to her and said no. That would have shown some true growth in him, IMO.

I never thought about it like that. He tells Arizona to get over him 'screwing' Callie but he spent a season whining about Lexie and Alex and has now moved onto Lexie and Jackson. Double standards much?

I always kind of liked Mark before. He was a ho and unapologetic about it, never seemed to mislead any of the women he slept with and didn't seem to judge anyone for what they were doing. His lack of moral compass was sort of part of his charm. But when he proved himself to be a big old hypocrite when he told Lexie he couldn't even look at her after she slept with Alex the way I viewed him changed, and unfortunately he continues to show that he can dish it out but he can't take it.

#790

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Posted Apr 6, 2011 @ 11:56 PM

Does anyone else remember what was said about Mark's childhood with Derek?

What I can remember, off the top of my head, is that Mark was an only child born to parents who never really wanted to have kids. They were more interested in going to parties and things like that. So they'd often leave him all alone at nights, while they went out and did stuff. And presumably they ignored him in general. So he started spending all his time at Derek's house instead. I think that's pretty much all we've ever found out.

Edited by lynxish, Apr 6, 2011 @ 11:56 PM.


#791

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Posted Apr 7, 2011 @ 12:23 AM

What I can remember, off the top of my head, is that Mark was an only child born to parents who never really wanted to have kids. They were more interested in going to parties and things like that. So they'd often leave him all alone at nights, while they went out and did stuff. And presumably they ignored him in general. So he started spending all his time at Derek's house instead. I think that's pretty much all we've ever found out.


Just adding that Mark's mother died somewhere down the line and his father never got off the couch. And given Carolyn's comments about Mark putting Derek's frog in the microwave, Derek and Mark should have been friends already by the age of 10.

On the same token why should he have to change? I feel bad for Mark because he is always seen as skeevy or un-genuine because he is free with his favors and he's arrogant but who on this show isn't?


You should change the negative aspects of yourself and change them into positive. Mark isn't doing that and is hurting several people in the process. I don't think Mark is the devil or doing things with malice but he isn't aware of how horrible this is for Arizona or how awful it was for Lexie. Since he's OK, it's OK. I hate Callie now by this premise. Since Callie has what she wants, who cares what the others want. On that level alone, Mark and Callie deserve each other.

Part of growing up is realizing all this. Arrogance can come across differently and while it just may be cockiness in Derek, for example, is coming as narcissistic in Mark.

I always kind of liked Mark before. He was a ho and unapologetic about it, never seemed to mislead any of the women he slept with and didn't seem to judge anyone for what they were doing. His lack of moral compass was sort of part of his charm.


Word. What you see is what you get. You know how he was and he didn't apologize to it. This sort of attitude made me kind of waived him off during the demise of the Addie/Derek marriage as he was the one to put up with his actions and pay consequences while Addison hid. He could've turned that attitude into something better, yet he went the hypocrite way.

...and then I broke up with Mark. Bummer.

And Arizona does need to move on from them sleeping together. Her dwelling on it is only making her bitter and at this point in time bringing it up over and over is not doing her any favors.


Easy to say when you're not the one hurt. Everyone is on this situation thanks to Mark and Callie's adventure. True, dwelling on it doesn't make anyone any favors but I can fault Arizona for still being hurt.

#792

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Posted Apr 7, 2011 @ 10:30 AM

I keep hearing that Mark won't stay out of Calzona's life but how is he overstepping? Whenever he is with them it is baby related is it not? I can remember some of the scenes, the first sonogram, the coffee debate, the vagina vote/foot rub scene, the amniotic fluid? scene, the baby shower, and the screaming match with Arizona. Did I miss anything?

Before the pregnancy Mark was all up in C/A's sauce. There was a quick scene of him LITERALLY lying in bed with Callie and Arizona. You could hear Arizona say "This isn't going to work for me". Almost every major discussion Callie and Arizona have had, Mark is there. When Callie asked Arizona to move in, there is Mark right in the middle. I was actually shocked when Callie asked Mark to leave the room while she told Arizona about their weekend trip. Those are the sorts of moments Mark is always around for. I mean, its clear that if the TIIC are calling C/A/M a "threesome" or "love triangle" that they would put Mark in the middle of things....and they've more than succeeded on that front.

Mark clearly knows he is causing problems for the C/A relationship.

I agree. Mark knows, and he just doesn't care. As long as he's getting what he wants (unlimitied access to the baby -- and by extension Callie) then everyone else can kick rocks. Early on Mark knew that Arizona didn't like him. No one had to tell him that. So I don't get how Mark was so intuitive back then when Arizona was actually trying to hide her dislike for him, but now he's supposed to be oblivious to C/A problems when its all out in the open?? GMAB!

And Arizona does need to move on from them sleeping together. Her dwelling on it is only making her bitter and at this point in time bringing it up over and over is not doing her any favors.

She's bringing it up because Callie never allowed her to process wtf happened. They never addressed the reasons that got them to where they are now....beyond Callie saying "I didn't plan this". I think what's really not doing Arizona any favors is having Callie tell her she's (unjustifiably) jealous of Mark.

That's the best thing he can give someone to comfort them. Which is why I believe he didn't turn Callie down that night. What was he going to do, talk to her? He doesn't have those kind of people skills. So he did what he does best, and he gave her what she asked for. And that's a problem as well. She went to Mark for sex because that is what she expects from him.

But Mark and Callie have already addressed this. When Callie started dating Erica, she still wanted to hang out with Mark. Mark seemed surprised that she'd still want to hang out with him even though they would no longer be having sex. Callie said something like "of course I want to still hang out with you, you're good for more than just sex". Secondly, we've seen Mark talk to Callie. One of Mark's best moments (for me there aren't many) was the speech he gave Callie about finding a way to love Africa. They've had several other intimate conversations (which is another problem in and of itself) that didn't involve sex, so Mark is very capable of it... when he wants to be.

In that context during that conversation when Arizona wanted to save Mark and Callie's baby and he wanted to save Callie, I just think Mark was saying if it's another Mallie baby you are worried than those are easy to come by. Sure it was wrong but in the heat of the moment things come out in ways they shouldn't.

Arizona asked Mark specifically if he was going to screw her girlfriend. Even if Mark's reasoning was to get across the idea that Mallie babies are easy to come by, Mark is a docter and should know about AI. There really isn't any excuse for him insulting Arizona, Callie and their relationship.

#793

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Posted Apr 7, 2011 @ 11:33 AM

Before the pregnancy Mark was all up in C/A's sauce. There was a quick scene of him LITERALLY lying in bed with Callie and Arizona. You could hear Arizona say "This isn't going to work for me". Almost every major discussion Callie and Arizona have had, Mark is there. When Callie asked Arizona to move in, there is Mark right in the middle.





The incident at the CO wedding was him offering moral support and he left half way through the conversation .M/C are at the bar talking,Arizona comes up says sorry for being late and Callie starts rambling the invitation to move in .Mark says 'you're doing great ,push through ' and walks off before CA get to the meat of the conversation .Can't see any problem with that he was just being supportive.

The lying in bed had more to do with M/L imploding than it had to do with C/A/M .The bed incident took place after he had been a dickwad to Lexie for the entire day, which ended up with the silent scene in the elevator .

Problem is for Mark as regards to wanting to talk to somebody about Lexie (other than Callie)is he can't turn to Derek about it as its pretty clear that Lexie has got Derek in the 'divorce'

#794

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Posted Apr 8, 2011 @ 10:52 AM

Shonda does this kind of thing all the time and it's just a mess. If she had allowed Mark to grow and really change all these past seasons then we wouldn't be here right now. Mark is exactly who he was when he appeared on the show, I love him but it's kind of ridiculous.

I don't entirely agree with this (though in some ways you are right). In several key ways, Mark has grown, IMO. He has been talking about how he's "growing again" for several seasons now (his exact words). Especially when he was dating Lexie the first time, there was quite a bit of growth. He was the one who was more committed and more interested in building a life together than Lexie was. He was the one who wanted to live together, who wanted to get married, who wanted to start a family. He was entirely faithful to her, which was a first for Mark (he couldn't even manage that with Addison), and he risked losing his friendship with Derek over his openly dating Lexie. He even went out to dinner to meet Lexie's dad, which was a big deal for him. Unfortunately, Lexie wasn't on the same page as he was, and wasn't ready for some of those things (especially the baby part).

But Mark has grown. Just not in relation to his view of casual sex. Or in relation to his no-boundaries friendship with Callie. Which he probably thinks is completely normal. If you take the sex out of the equation, that's probably what his friendship with Derek was like before Mark had an affair with Addison. He and Derek probably had a very similar symbiotic friendship, given their history together and given Mark's tendency to cling. So Mark probably doesn't even grasp that there might be anything inappropriate about his degree of closeness to Callie. The difference being that unlike with Derek, Mark actually has sex with Callie. Which doesn't make their no-boundaries friendship inappropriate when both of them are single, but does make it inappropriate when either of them is in a serious relationship with someone else. JMO.

Every time he tries the no sex, get to know you thing he gets rejected. It's happened with Addison a few times, Callie and Lexie as well.

You're forgetting about Teddy. While she's not my favorite character by a longshot, once she agreed to start dating him, she did not reject him. In fact, they seemed to be having a pretty successful no-sex courtship for a while (until they took it to the next level). Mark was really excited about it, talking about how he was learning all sorts of things about her because they were actually taking the time to get to know each other before having sex. But then Mark ruined it by sleeping with Reed. Which was no big loss, since he was still in love with Lexie anyway, but it does prove that Mark doesn't always get emotionally rejected.

I actually don't understand why the writers didn't let Teddy and Mark continue to be friends. They ended things fairly amicably, despite the way they broke up. Teddy wasn't hurt by his sleeping with Reed. She was actually amused by it, which made me think that Teddy and Mark did have actual potential as friends. And it seemed like Teddy really understood Mark. She wasn't deluded about who he was, although sometimes she was surprised by things about him (but usually by his being more mature than she anticipated). It was a good basis for a friendship. I think the writers really dropped the ball on that one. It would have given Teddy a stronger connection to an already established character (one that isn't named Cristina), and it would have given Mark an unbiased (or relatively unbiased) sounding board to discuss this whole CALM debacle with (since Derek seems to be too busy, or otherwise disinterested).

#795

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Posted Apr 10, 2011 @ 2:38 PM

Problem is for Mark as regards to wanting to talk to somebody about Lexie (other than Callie)is he can't turn to Derek about it as its pretty clear that Lexie has got Derek in the 'divorce'


First thing, that's some funny stuff. I always thought Addison was the extra one in the marriage, LOL.

As for the other, IDK. I've never seen Mark really try to talk to Derek about Lexie on any level, when they were together and when they're not. He always goes straight to Callie. Mark called Derek "married and self-satisfied, it's annoying" as an excuse not to talk to Derek about Lexie but if someone has insight...it's him. Derek did tell Lexie that Mark was worried for her, so I assume in some level they did talk about her but it doesn't mean he can't turn to Derek for it. Seems just like another weak plot device to see the lack of boundaries between Mark and Callie, IMO.

How I wish it was S4 again for Mark and Derek.

In several key ways, Mark has grown, IMO.


ITA. It's been slow and it sometimes get overshadowed by the childishness from the whole story with Calzona but he has. I feel Mark takes two steps ahead and goes one back. This Calzona thing was one back but he's taking adult steps to deal with it. It all seems halfways because we then see his lack of respect for the Calzona relationship but he wants to take care of the child. I think it's very confusing to define what's grown up and not in the story as the whole thing is very childish but that's more on Callie's side and drags Arizona and Mark with her on that sense. It's how I see it.

Or in relation to his no-boundaries friendship with Callie. Which he probably thinks is completely normal. If you take the sex out of the equation, that's probably what his friendship with Derek was like before Mark had an affair with Addison. He and Derek probably had a very similar symbiotic friendship, given their history together and given Mark's tendency to cling.


I agree but not at the same time. I think Derek and Mark's relationship is another thing than Callie and Mark's. I mean, Derek and Mark were raised together, as brothers. As far as both are concerned, they are brothers. They have a more familiar relationship rather than a friendship. I doubt Addison had ever a problem of Mark hanging out with Derek, like Arizona has. Addison may have seen this from the angle that Derek and Mark are family whereas Callie and Mark are friends with extra benefits. I think both relationships are very different in terms of clinging, even though he might have done the same thing in both...in one is a family thing while the other is already borderline creepy.

Mark was really excited about it, talking about how he was learning all sorts of things about her because they were actually taking the time to get to know each other before having sex. But then Mark ruined it by sleeping with Reed. Which was no big loss, since he was still in love with Lexie anyway, but it does prove that Mark doesn't always get emotionally rejected.


Exactly! He was trying, he was willing to give the chance to actually move on and have a real relationship. Loving Lexie or not, it proved that Mark was trying to change his ways. Of course, nothing gets done overnight.

sounding board to discuss this whole CALM debacle with (since Derek seems to be too busy, or otherwise disinterested).


I think the writers forgot that Derek and Mark were supposed to be brothers/best friends and that they talk. I mean, they have interacted little this season and all has been mentions of it. "Mark was with Derek when I left" (Cristina to Meredith when she was getting the DNC), the whole little speech of how Derek was Mark's other half, when Mark broke the news of Callie's pregnancy, and the golfing scene (which was tainted with Owen). As far as I can tell, the writers have a hard time having CAM interact with anyone else at this time. Mark cannot talk to Derek, Arizona cannot talk to Teddy, Callie cannot talk to Cristina (?) because that'd mean that they have to interact outside of the circle of doom. I loathe that as Mark and Derek were my second shipper but also because the male bonding is so lacking on any level. I don't get it why neither can't talk to anyone else.