61 replies to this topic

[Silence Dogood]

There are threads about other relationships, but I'd like one to talk about Rory and her grandparents mostly because with all the talk about R/E and Lorelai, I think Rory's relationship with them could use some examining.

What I'm most interested in how Rory's leaving the grandparents, seemingly without their knowledge, is going to do in the future. Since before now, Rory has been the perfect angel and they have actually been very close with each other (see Rory's Graduation speech), is it likely that they might sweep it under the table (or blame Lorelai)?

Another thought that's been on my mind is I want to know what Rory told her grandparents about dropping out of Yale. Given Richard's shock that what Lorelai said was true in WGMTD, I've often suspected that Rory lied to her grandparents or said her mother was blowing things out of proportion or wouldn't listen. Or possibly she just gave them some lame half-true excuse.

I am bothered that Rory now acts like she's suffered at their hands the way Lorelai did. There's been a lot of discussion about whether or not her grandparents were truly controlling and insufferable, but obviously Rory's however many months stints doesn't compare to Lorelai's 16 years. Frankly, I'd like to see Lorelai tell Rory that the situations weren't at all the same-- Lorelai was a minor with no real choices, that had to run off for her own mental health (this is of course debatable), whereas Rory was a 21 year old freeloader that could leave politely whenever. I'd like to see it pointed out also that R/E have been much more emotionally and financially supportive of Rory than they ever seemed to be of Lorelai. Parent/daughter and grandparent/daughter relationships are completely different.

Anyway, I hope that's enough of my blabbering to get this thread running. :D

[shootingstars]

I have always loved Rory's relationship with Richard. I've always liked how they bonded, particularly over books and school. Besides, Richard is really the only male member of the Rory's family that's always around. The other (Chris) only comes and goes.

As we saw a few weeks ago, Richard and Emily are still upset with Rory. That is totally understandable, but I hope that Richard and Rory can resume their old relationship sometime in the future.

[dustylil]

I have said elsewhere that I find Richard and Rory to be very much alike. Both were raised as adored only children of devoted and forceful single mothers. Both are accustomed to getting their own way and are taken aback when their wants are thwarted. As well both are intellectually gifted are similarly lacking in human understanding and empathy.
I am sure the two will soon be great companions once again.

[dustylil]

I presume it is OK to post again as it has been more than ten days.
In the Canadian syndication earlier today, it was early Season 2 and Dean attended a FND. From the beginning of the evening Dean was treated rudely by Richard and at the meal he was eviscerated for his lack of suitability as a boyfriend for Rory. It was interesting to see Richard behaving in a manner not unlike the way the Huntzbergers conducted themselves toward Rory in Season 5.
I guess in the senior Gilmore world, rudeness is only unforgiveable when it is directed at a Gilmore.

[Taryn74]

Good point dusty. And Lorelai even defended Richard after that debacle, much to Rory's (and our) surprise.

Although I guess it should be pointed out that the Huntzbergers were more worried that the Gilmores weren't quite as high on their social ladder, and Richard was concerned with Dean's mediocre aspirations. He was still being unfair, but it was more understandable. (And it infuriates me that Dean later pretty much confirmed Richard's comments when he got upset that Rory was really going to be moving away to go to Harvard.)

I wonder if Dean ran home and stole a car and then dropped out of basketball or something after that dinner? /snark

[dustylil]

Taryn 74 , with respect, Richard was rude from the moment he saw Dean - not just when he became aware of his limited ambitions in life at the dinner table. He took one look at the boy and made his assessment. By Dean's appearance Richard realized that the boy was not on the same rung of the social ladder as the Gilmores. Of course what made Richard's behaviour even more churlish was that Dean was only sixteen or seventeen years old at the time.

Edited by dustylil, Mar 15, 2006 @ 10:54 AM.

[outforawalk]

I always thought that Lorelai hit the nail on the head with the reasons for Richard's assittude. He wouldn't have cared at that point if the guy was Logan. His angel granddaughter brought a boy home and this had not ended well for her mother. I liked that after his initial Emily demanded phone call, he made and extra effort to make sure it was fixed with Rory. I would like to see some of that effort make its way back into the Rory and g'parents dynamic. Of course, this time the pretty pretty princess could be the one to make sure it is ok. Or you know...not. But I look back at that and I feel so bad for the R and R relationship we now have.

[dustylil]

I agree with you outforawalk to an extent about Lorelai's assessment of Richard's behaviour in that episode. Memories of Lorelai at that age would certainly come into play.
On the other hand, Richard has known for months that Rory has been dating a boy from Stars Hollow and had not seen fit to comment on the matter before. It was only when he saw that Dean was a small town boy with limited ambitions that Richard became rude. Nor was this the only time that Richard was unpleasant to Dean. When Dean presented Rory with the car he had built for her, Richard was ill-mannered and dismissive of Dean's efforts.

I too would like the Rory/grandparents relationship to get back on track. Of course, to my mind, this first requires a thank you and a sincere apology from Rory.

[River Run]

Is anyone else disturbed by the Gilmores' plan to donate a building to Yale in Rory's name? I know they love their granddaughter and all, but that is ridiculous, not to mention several million dollars.

ETA: grandmother and granddaughter are not the same thing.

Edited by River Run, May 10, 2006 @ 11:44 PM.

[dustylil]

I agree with you River Run . Of all of the godawful things that went on in the season finale, that was seriously creepy.
If they had called in The Lorelai Gilmores' Astronomy Building, honouring all three Lorelais, it would have been cutesy but within the bounds of reason. Trix was a noted Connecticut benefactor, Lorelai is an accomplished businesswoman - and, well OK, Rory is the third Lorelai.

But as it is, it is as if Rory isn't a real person to Richard and Emily but some idealized creature. I have long thought the senior Gilmores' doting attitude toward Rory was excessive (and the source of much of Rory's overweening sense of self-importance) but this was utterly over the top. At least Lorelai had the good sense to laugh.

I wonder if this has been done in real life, where doting grandparents or parents have memorialized their still quite youthful "precious" in this fashion?

[River Run]

I remember reading People Magazine once about a pro football player who had to donate $2 million to his school to have a building built and named after his mother who had sacrificed so much for his future. This was not an Ivy League School, so I'd hate to think what Yale charges for that particular honor.
Plus, Rory's building was pretty freaking ugly.

[dustylil]

River Run , aw, that was a rather sweet way of paying tribute to his mother on the part of the football player. Maybe I can get Dustylil Jr to have a shed built in my honour somewhere.
I understand neither ASP or DP attended college (and have made a number of academia-related mistakes in the past) so perhaps the whole concept of having a building built in honour of Rory seemed like something wealthy and indulgent grandparents might do. That it is akin to putting a statue of yourself on your front lawn appears not to have been drawn to the SherPas' attention.

[Kait1987]

I just wanted to mention one of my favorite scenes with Rory and Emily as I just watched Christopher Returns today. For a good part of the first season of Gilmore Girls, I always felt bad for Rory and figured she felt like she caused the trouble between her mother and her grandparents. But I fell in love with Emily when she took Rory aside and said:

Rory, I know you heard a lot of talk about various disappointments this evening and I know you’ve heard a lot of talk about it in the past. But I want to make this very clear - you, young lady, your person and your existance have never ever been - not even for a second -included in that list. Do you understand me?

[dustylil]

I have never quite understood why is acceptable for Richard or Emily to be unkind or abusive to people who have in their minds harmed Rory's interests (Richard/Dean, Richard/Mitchum, Emily/Shira) but are shocked and dismayed when others behave in a similar fashion when they see their interests threatened. Mitchum's criticism of Rory was not unfounded and Rory had not been brought up in the same social milieu as Logan.
Just as the Gilmores were dismissive of the folks of Stars Hollow, the Huntzbergers could quite reasonably looked down on the Gilmores.

[Laine89]

dusty, Richard and Emily are like any other humans. They think it's okay when they're rude to someone else, but not when someone is rude to them. Everyone has had sometime in their life where they believe they weren't rude when they really were. That's what I think of when I see Emily and Richard. When it comes to Rory, they can be rude to people without thinking they're being rude, but they can automatically sense when someone is being rude to Rory. At least that's what've I've noticed.

Richard and Emily are protective of Rory in a way they once were Lorelai. To me, they see her as what Lorelai once could have been. They love her, but they also see in her, everything Lorelai was never able to do because of her. Hypocritical, yes, but that's how I see it. YMMV.

[Laine89]

Double post. So sorry.

Edited by Laine89, Jun 26, 2006 @ 12:12 AM.

[Laine89]

Wow, I've never had a triple post before. Sorry about that.

Edited by Laine89, Jun 26, 2006 @ 12:12 AM.

[dustylil]

Laine89, having been taught at a young age and similarly having taught Dustylil Junior to at least try to treat other people as one would wish to be treated, I am not sure I would go along with that sentiment.
But Richard and Emily both as a couple and individually have been rude and unkind in situations where they were not being protective of Rory. For example, Richard was quite nasty to Dean on a couple of occasions when he was dating Rory. And both the senior Gilmores have denigrated Lorelai to her daughter several times.
If they were fiercely guarding and protecting their little cub, then such behaviour would be understandable if not excusable. But often, they are rude knowing the other people involved are not in a position to stand up to them.

[Laine89]

If they were fiercely guarding and protecting their little cub, then such behaviour would be understandable if not excusable.

To them, Rory is their little cub to be protected. Especially to Richard.

And both the senior Gilmores have denigrated Lorelai to her daughter several times.

And Lorelai has done the same to Rory regarding Richard and Emily. In most cases, they were correct if not a little harsh regarding their rantings.


Rory and the Gilmores have the type of relationship that depends on the ability to ingore the others faults. Lorelai has told Rory how horrible her parents are her whole life, yet Rory has had the ability to still grow quite close to them despite the fact she only saw them on holidays for the first 16 years of her life. They've basically had to start from the beginning armed only with the knowledge that (for Rory) her mother doesn't like them and ran away 16 years before and (the grandparents) Rory is their granddaughter that they virtually nothing about.

Edited because not every argument was correct.

ETA:

But I would never say that they are, on balance, good people.

I agree. They're aren't "good" people, but they aren't "bad" people either. They're normal. Other than the fact that they have money, they are "normal". Their relationships are as complicated as any other person's, they just have a little trouble deciding what and what isn't important in the long run.

Edited by Laine89, Jun 26, 2006 @ 12:52 AM.

[matheus]

IMO, both Richard and Emily have good traits and are wonderfully complex and contradictory characters. But I would never say that they are, on balance, good people. If I ever have children, I would not use them as an example in a 'child, be like this person' way.

[Kait1987]

Having Rory step into Richard and Emily's life at age 16 was really interesting for me to watch. Rory stepped in at exactly the age Lorelai stepped out. I have a feeling this made it 'easier' for E&R to try and pick up right where they'd left off with Lorelai. Sometimes it seems that Rory is an extension of Lorelai to them, if that makes any sense. Rory is everything they always wanted Lorelai to be and she does everything they always wanted Lorelai to do. I'm sure that sometimes when they look at Rory, they only see Lorelai. Lorelai's said it before; she is the angel daughter they always wanted. I've always thought that perhaps one of the reasons Lorelai moved out with Rory is because Richard and Emily were trying to take over her parenting responsibilities and play mommy and daddy.


ETA: I have often wondered if there is a backstory that Lorelai was a real daddy's girl as a child. I have a feeling she was, based on some of the stories Richard has told and the few times she has called him daddy. This could be why Richard has formed such a fierce bond with Rory.

Edited by Kait1987, Jun 26, 2006 @ 12:59 AM.

[Laine89]

Sometimes it seems that Rory is an extension of Lorelai to them, if that makes any sense. Rory is everything they always wanted Lorelai to be and she does everything they always wanted Lorelai to do. I'm sure that sometimes when they look at Rory, they only see Lorelai.

That's basically what I was trying to get across. I don't think I did it very well. Thank you, Kait, you explained it perfectly.

ETA:

I have often wondered if there is a backstory that Lorelai was a real daddy's girl as a child.

I wondered that myself. I really thought so when he took the doll house over to her house when Emily was just going to give it away or what ever it was she was going to do. He went out of his way to bring that to her. Sure, he used the excuse of talking about Rory, but if that was the only thing, he could have just called her.

Edited by Laine89, Jun 26, 2006 @ 1:02 AM.

[dustylil]

Laine89, Now having seen how Richard and Emily have behaved towards Lorelai since the family reconciled, I am more than ever convinced of the correctness of her decision to leave with her daughter.
Since the first season the senior Gilmoresy have been dismissive and rude to Lorelai, demeaned her life and accomplishments, sang the praises of Rory's deadbeat father, blamed her for matters that had nothing to do with her (e.g. Emily learning of Richard's lunches with Pennilynn Lott), interfered in her raising of her daughter, and meddled in her romantic life.
On the other hand, Lorelai has gone out of her way to be helpful to both her parents - assisting her father set up his new business, trying to be supportive when Richard and Emily separated, tearing a strip off Jason for making her mother feel obsolete. She received little gratitude for her large and small kindnesses.

[Laine89]

I don't meant to be rude, dustylil, but what does that have to do with Rory and her grandparents? That's Lorelai and her parents.

Edited by Laine89, Jun 26, 2006 @ 1:30 AM.

[Pink Hammer]

I have often wondered if there is a backstory that Lorelai was a real daddy's girl as a child

I've often thought that myself, but watching some of S1 over the weekend Lorelai says to Luke that she and her Dad never did anything when she was a kid and that all he did was work and come home to read the paper (I'm paraphrasing here). Maybe she just got along better with Richard than Emily - even if he wasn't a huge day to day presence, she probably didn't fight with him so much.

Rory stepped in at exactly the age Lorelai stepped out

I never noticed before that they were the same age. I agree that they often treat Rory as the daughter they wanted - the one who has to fix all the mistakes that Lorelai made

[dustylil]

Laine89, I was suggesting that Lorelai's views of her parents that you had mentioned and that she shared with Rory when she was growing up were shown to be true, in light of their actions over the last several years.
As well, I was trying to point out that the behaviour of Richard and Emily was often rude and mean-spirited when it had nothing to do with protecting Rory. I am sorry if my intent was unclear.

[Taryn74]

Rory stepped in at exactly the age Lorelai stepped out.

Wow, I can't believe I've never picked up on that. I mean, of course I knew it, but I never thought about the implications. Wow.

I have often wondered if there is a backstory that Lorelai was a real daddy's girl as a child. I have a feeling she was, based on some of the stories Richard has told and the few times she has called him daddy.

Does it make me a sap, that that made me tear up a little?

I've often thought that myself, but watching some of S1 over the weekend Lorelai says to Luke that she and her Dad never did anything when she was a kid and that all he did was work and come home to read the paper (I'm paraphrasing here).

True, but I can see Lorelai being interested in listening to his stories about traveling and his stories about Yale (remember that she stole his Yale diploma when she was 10 years old - I always thought that was a cute story). Like Rory, I picture a young Lorelai being older than her years in the way she interacted with Richard.

This conversation reminds me of something I was wondering about the other day, but it doesn't really have anything to do with Rory and the g'rents so I'll take it to a different thread.

[Bookwormrach]

Since I'm compiling a list of favorite Rory/Grandparents scenes for a Survival Game over in Stars Hollow Whimsy, I wanted to bump the thread.

What are everybody's favorite Rory/G'Rents moments?

I love whenever Rory got all diplomatic with Richard and Emily, convincing them to attend Lorelai's graduation in season 2. Love and War and Snow is also a nice episode for the three of them.