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Supernatural Smackdown: the Brothers Dean vs. Other Shows


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#2521

DementedDaisy

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Posted Mar 13, 2014 @ 1:06 AM

Not to derail the X-Files discussion, but the talk of the angels and their methods reminds me of Dogma.  God's absence (through no fault of his own, but the idea of God being kidnapped was always odd to me), Bartleby and Loki willing to destroy the world, the prophets, Rufus, Azrael/Azazel, Metatron….

 

Was Kripke a fan?

 

ETA  I'd love to hear Crowley say, "I'm a f*%"ing demon."


Edited by DementedDaisy, Mar 13, 2014 @ 1:10 AM.

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#2522

SupRnatRL

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Posted Mar 16, 2014 @ 10:34 AM

I personally think Supernatural has played out the best from all the myths they chose :)


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#2523

phidra

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Posted Mar 17, 2014 @ 5:55 AM

Was Kripke a fan?

 

Kim Manners was a director for the X-Files and I think he had a lot of influence.  However, it's not Kripke who did Metatron, that was Carver. I don't know if Carver is/was a fan of the X-Files but he sure could use some of the talent that went to that show.   X-Files made a lot of things work that Supernatural tried but failed miserably at. MV


Edited by phidra, Mar 17, 2014 @ 5:55 AM.

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#2524

DementedDaisy

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Posted Mar 17, 2014 @ 1:00 PM

I was talking about Dogma, not X-Files.  I know that Metatron was Carver's work, not Kripke's, but it didn't seem right to leave him out when mentioning the similarities between the two.  


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#2525

Austinthecat

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Posted Mar 22, 2014 @ 9:22 PM

I wanted to ask if anyone watches Teen Wolf. I know it deals with high school age characters, so I expect some teen melodrama, but are the mythology and character interesting?  It's finishing up its third season now, so I assume it has found its vibe, so to speak.


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#2526

Aeryn13

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Posted Mar 23, 2014 @ 8:56 AM

 

I wanted to ask if anyone watches Teen Wolf. I know it deals with high school age characters, so I expect some teen melodrama, but are the mythology and character interesting? 

 

During Season 1 I definitely only found it to be a guilty pleasure - fun in a goofy way. Season 2 was a bit better but not by much. First half of Season 3 was pretty bad on accounts of the bad guys being failures whereas Season 3.B is almost a masterpiece so far and I can legit recommend it.

 

For me there are a few comparisms to Supernatural in terms of story tropes. Scott, the main character, gets the Chosen One treatment a la Sam in Season 3 especially. Which is funny because since they started late with that, he has been established as a "not the smartest tool in the shed but he means well" till then. 

 

There is no "Dean" character per se but the role, if you will, is split between Stiles, the funny human sidekick (HE is the brains of the outfit, though) and Derek, the character whose trauma has trauma. He is also unfortunately the one with a lot of story potential that isn`t realized.

 

Unlike Supernatural, Teen Wolf has a couple of good female permanent characters, even a recently introduced one that works pretty well. There is a positive gay character and a positive representation of parents.

 

What I find particularly interesting is that there is even a bona fide hunter family in a show that is basically about "monsters" being the good guys and how they are integrated as growing allies.

 

So if you have some patience with a show, this wouldn`t be a bad thing to pick up.


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#2527

bethy

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Posted Mar 23, 2014 @ 1:31 PM

I watch Teen Wolf, and I'm enjoying it quite a bit.  I haven't had real high expectations for it, but I find it very entertaining for all the reasons Aeryn mentions.  The teenagers are certainly the main characters, but they've done a good job, I think, of not making teen romance drive the whole show.  And the parents are engaged with what's going on with their children - a nice difference from a lot of shows.

 

Additionally, I appreciate that so far at least they've maintained the main friendship - Scott and Stiles - without injecting drama for drama's sake.  They're not competitive for the same girls and while they're definitely boys, they're kind and supportive of each other, as well. And honestly, they've done the same thing with the friendships between the girls, though they aren't the primary relationship.

 

I'd recommend giving it a shot.  Also as Aeryn said, this current season - 3B - has been amazing. 

 

ETA:  I'm sorry.  I realize I didn't actually make a Teen Wolf vs. Supernatural comparison before.  Here you go:  The boys in Teen Wolf take their shirts of a LOT more than the boys in Supernatural.  Not so much with the flannel overshirts, more with the fitted t-shirts.  You're welcome.


Edited by bethy, Mar 23, 2014 @ 1:44 PM.

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#2528

Austinthecat

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Posted Mar 23, 2014 @ 3:08 PM

Thanks for the feedback about Teen Wolf. I had to laugh at the shirts comment. :)

 

From the All Seasons thread:

 

 

I didn't mind Wuthering Heights, because at least the obsessive love was clearly framed as negative throughout the plot, and the protagonists had a horribly tragic ending because of it. Also that story is a love story! I don't know why the heck Supernatural would go this route too - with a pair of brothers, no less. Argh!

 

 

Fair enough. To be honest I was in my teens/early twenties when I first read it - you know, not jaded enough by life and failed love to really grasp it. Upon my second reading I enjoyed and understood the story more but still didn't care about Catherine and Heathcliff. The second generation I cared about though, as they went through those periods of extreme bitterness but came out the other side happy and alright in spite of it as well more mature because of it. The important part there was that you saw the journey towards that positive outcome, it wasn't saved for the very last sentence.

 

I think the other difference between the show and Wuthering Heights is that Heathcliff and Catherine were never meant to come back together, so it doesn't matter how much the author tore the relationship down. With Supernatural, we're supposed to be rooting for them to "work out" but too much time is spent on tearing down the relationship instead of rebuilding it.

 

My worry is that Supernatural will reserve all that for the very ending moment and not show us any long term positive lead up to it that would make it seem natural. That the guys will literally go from wanting to kill each other on some level to hugging and crying in under a minute. With all the melodrama this relationship has been burdened with, that would not be good storytelling.


Edited by Austinthecat, Mar 23, 2014 @ 3:09 PM.

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#2529

PeteMartell

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Posted Mar 24, 2014 @ 3:44 AM

For me there are a few comparisms to Supernatural in terms of story tropes. Scott, the main character, gets the Chosen One treatment a la Sam in Season 3 especially. Which is funny because since they started late with that, he has been established as a "not the smartest tool in the shed but he means well" till then.

 

It's interesting, because I often hear a lot of the same complaints about Stiles that I hear from some about Sam - that the whole show is about him and that the showrunner cares only about Stiles.

 

I don't really watch Teen Wolf that much, so I don't know. I've seen so much of it on tumblr that I sometimes feel like I've seen more of it, but then I remember tumblr is often very skewed. I so often hear the same things about it as I do about Supernatural - generally only using the possibility of gay characters for fan bait or jokes and treating actual queer characters as tokens, racism, misogyny, horrible consent issues and lack of interest in calling rape rape, horrible continuity problems, manpain galore, no followthrough, etc.

 

I've heard so much of this stuff on tumblr that I sometimes forget there may be more positive comparisons between them too, like psychological horror or humor or what have you.


Edited by PeteMartell, Mar 24, 2014 @ 3:53 AM.

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#2530

Aeryn13

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Posted Mar 24, 2014 @ 12:47 PM

 

It's interesting, because I often hear a lot of the same complaints about Stiles that I hear from some about Sam - that the whole show is about him and that the showrunner cares only about Stiles.

 

While he is part of the biggest ship of the show (which can dominate tumblr and the likes) and is portrayed by what I believe to be the strongest of the young cast, I can`t see the Sam comparism at all.

 

Scott is the one bitten and while in the world of Teen Wolf that doesn`t really make him that much special as there are other wolves, he is the one who is a "true Alpha" aka a naturally special snowflake who gets from a beta to an Alpha through his sheer goodness? It wasn`t that clear. And for the longest time he bemoaned his supernaturalness and wanted back to a normal life.

 

That to me speaks way more Sam than anyone else. Maybe Charlie in a Thompson-penned episode. 

 

Stiles has only ever been the support, the comic relief and the sidekick. Okay, he got the brainy part of it but Lydia, one of the supporting female characters, is both supersmart AND supernatural (as it turns out). So he isn`t even unique there. Season 3.B is the first time Siles has gotten a story arc of his own. Which, granted, is a big reason why I believe the show rocks so much. 

 

Now on account of Scott being the physically stronger as a werewolf and Stiles being a skinny, non-fighting dude, he wasn`t Dean-like in terms of being a physical protector. And he isn`t the only emotional nurturer because Scott`s mom fills that role to some degree. Maybe even Allison the former love interest. But he was, if you will, the "intellectual protector" of Scott early on. Stiles was the one researching werewolf lore and helping Scott deal with it day in, day out.    

 

I`m not quite sure there is a Supernatural character that comes to mind readily as a clear-cut parallel but Sam? No way for me. I see basically no comparism. 


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