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Sam Winchester: Sleep With Him And DIE!


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#6691

Rina99

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Posted Jun 25, 2012 @ 5:38 PM

Would it kill you to laugh at just one of your brother's jokes, Sam?


I've been rewatching the show from the beginning thanks to Netflix, and since I read this comment I've been looking for this, and wow, this is dead on. To be fair, though, most of Deans jokes are lame and corny (I laugh anyways). And actually, Sam does occasionally muster a pained grimace or, even more rarely, a slight chuckle. Overall, though, I have to agree that he does not find Dean, or life in general, very amusing at all. However, Sam wouldn't be Sam without his general pissiness, and I adore the character so it doesn't bother me.

Edited by Rina99, Jun 25, 2012 @ 5:41 PM.

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#6692

RestlessThought

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Posted Jun 25, 2012 @ 9:32 PM

Well, there's some humor with the character. I love Soulless!Sam, he was hilarious. Second favorite character on this show. Especially in the fairy episode, he had a few good zingers. But regular Sam had his moments this season, like in Time After Time, "or are you strictly into Dick now"... that was a pretty bad joke, but I still laughed at it. Plus, you know, the comedy episodes like Bad Day At Black Rock.
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#6693

Rina99

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Posted Jun 25, 2012 @ 10:13 PM

I haven't gotten to Season Six again yet, but yes, I do remember enjoying Souless!Sam quite a bit. His humor is much more deadpan than Dean when he does use it. And I do think the character lightened up a little bit after the souless thing, though I'll have to confirm on rewatch. He seemed slightly less dour this season despite being the whole Lucifer thing. Having said that, I do stand by him not finding Dean himself very funny, which is hilarious to me, so hey. :)

Edited by Rina99, Jun 25, 2012 @ 10:14 PM.

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#6694

PrussianBlue

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Posted Jun 26, 2012 @ 7:22 AM

Well, there's some humor with the character. I love Soulless!Sam, he was hilarious.


I totally agree! The soulless arc was really hard to watch the first time because it was painful seeing Sam and Dean be so off. But when I went through and watched on DVD again knowing how it would play out I thought he was really funny in a twisted way (like throwing the ball at the skinwalker, and pretty much everything he said in Clap Your Hands). I didn't really want them to keep Soulless!Sam around longer, but I would have prefered if everyone figured out sooner what was wrong with him. Once he stopped pretending to be normal, he was a lot of fun to watch.
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#6695

Blackmantra53

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Posted Jun 26, 2012 @ 10:57 AM

I don't think it says anything good about Sam if he is more interesting and funnier without his soul than with it, but of course miles vary. The funniest I remember Sam ever being was in earlier episodes such as Hell House, Tall Tales and Bad Day At Black Rock.
I found Sam without his soul to be merely cruel and vindictive whilst given to bouts of mercurial anger, emotionless except when he wasn't, and completely inconsistent from one episode to the next.
As always, miles vary.
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#6696

RestlessThought

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Posted Jul 8, 2012 @ 6:58 PM

Haha Blackmantra53, you must hate shows like Dexter and Hannibal and Jekyll & Hyde and insult comedy. There's some inherent humor in the outrageous and inappropriate. And even if people think soulless!Sam is more interesting or funny, I don't think that's a bad thing (besides it being a trope that you should be funnier when you're evil and not paying attention to societal norms). It's not bad to have other faucets to explore about a character, and pretty much all the characters with any kind of development on Supernatural have been there and done shitty things.
Plus Jared plays a wonderful villain. His Meg!Sam was also fabulous.
As you said, miles vary.
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#6697

Blackmantra53

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Posted Jul 9, 2012 @ 11:59 AM

Plus Jared plays a wonderful villain. His Meg!Sam was also fabulous.

I'll give you no argument in that regard, however, I find "normal" Sam to be humorless and crushingly dull so it's little wonder Jared advocates for diverse storylines for himself.
I do not watch any of the other shows you mention.

Also, I really think I'd rather not explore the faucets of any of the characters, thankyou very much!

Edited by Blackmantra53, Jul 9, 2012 @ 9:08 PM.

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#6698

photoshopgirl

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Posted Jul 16, 2012 @ 6:07 PM

I find "normal" Sam to be humorless and crushingly dull

Humorless, yes. Dull, no. I'd say depressing rather than dull but that's just my humble opinion. I do love the glimmer of light they give us and wish there were more of it. For instance, the last time I remember was in PPMM at the end. He comes back all covered in glitter, tells Dean to go ahead and laugh... he's smiling, Dean is smiling... then he gives Dean that giant slinky and Dean gives him the clown doll. They both had a moment of brotherly love and actually looked genuinely okay for once... fleeting as it was.
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#6699

bilski

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Posted Jul 26, 2012 @ 12:51 AM

I wish.
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#6700

MsTaken

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Posted Aug 18, 2012 @ 5:45 AM

The thing is, you can be a serious, worry-prone, introverted character with myriad flaws without being the least bit dull. In fact, I often fall in TV love with those types of characters, and I sympathize with the fact that they can be more of a challenge to write and depict than extroverted charmers who get the bulk of the witty lines.

But Sam, even at his most likable (er...least UNlikable?!) has always seemed so utterly devoid of personality and depth to me. It's like the writers had some vague idea that Sam was the 'book smart' one and then later tacked on that he's also got a weird amount of arrogance and pride, but forgot to give him any other salient, consistent character traits. At all. And I get that he's the 'little brother', but he's not a toddler---the constant sulky, never-not-pissed-off petulance just makes him really hard to like no matter how earnestly I've wanted to. I've tried to fanwank layers and depth and emotional nuances, but the writing and acting combine to just make Sam a dull and unpleasant killjoy for me. There are a handful of S1-S3 episodes that give me a hopeful glimpse of how interesting, relatable and/or likable the character *could* have been, but those are sadly few and far between.

IMO, the whole show needs more joy and humor, so my complaints definitely aren't limited to Sam's characterization. I do think it's sad, though, that I liked Sam best in Born Under a Bad Sign...when he was a possessed sociopath. Not a good sign. ;)
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#6701

liverpoollady

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Posted Aug 22, 2012 @ 2:18 AM

I agree the writing for Sam has let the character down. I have had very little issue with the acting however at this late stage I doubt the view of Sam some parts of the fandom have will change.I love Sam he is the character that drew me in and has kept me watching so wether he is Mr Dull or Lucifer's dog bowl does not affect me.
He needed fleshing out outside of the mytharc wether that happen's in Season 8? is anyone's guess but now his pit sl has been got rid of there is nothing stopping them .

Edited by liverpoollady, Aug 22, 2012 @ 9:18 AM.

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#6702

orionlion

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Posted Aug 22, 2012 @ 9:24 AM

Would it kill you to laugh at just one of your brother's jokes, Sam?


I've been rewatching the show from the beginning thanks to Netflix, and since I read this comment I've been looking for this, and wow, this is dead on.


BWAH! Now that you mention it, it's so true! I skimmed through my mental Rolodex of Sam Scenes (yes, I have one of those) and the only time I could remember Sam laughing at something Dean said or did was when Dean screamed "SON OF A BITCH" at realizing Bela stole his lottery tickets. And that wasn't Sam laughing at Dean- it was obviously Jared breaking character. The only other times I remember him genuinely laughing at Dean (not rolling his eyes or begrudgingly grinning) he's actually laughing AT Dean not with him. Like in Hell House when they kept playing jokes on each other.

So yes, Sam = fairly humorless esp. when it comes to Dean. But God help me if I don't adore that bitchface of his.

Still, I have to admit, the times I most get invested in Sam's character are when he's 'off' in someway. Possessed by Meg, drunk on Demon Blood (Sam drunk on alcohol is pretty much Insufferable Humorless Sam cranked up to 11), possessed by Lucifer, Soulless- this is really only when Sam is interesting. Season 7 was back to Emo Helpful Puppy Sam and it got on my nerves. I kept wishing they'd do something more with his Hellucinations and having Luci as his pooka- but all they did was give him a case of insomnia. And not a fun crazy case of insomnia. He was still Helpful Emo Puppy Sam as an insomniac- just... sleepy. Disappointing.

Here's hoping he gets hit with something in Season 8 that brings back Evil!Sam in some form. :-)!!

Edited by orionlion, Aug 22, 2012 @ 9:26 AM.

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#6703

caseylane

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Posted Aug 25, 2012 @ 7:35 AM

The only time I actually really liked Sam, and found him sizzling hot, was when he left Dean and was working in the bar. In fact, I personally think that's Jared's best episode. Other than that I'm not a huge fan.
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#6704

glorygirl84

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Posted Oct 4, 2012 @ 7:06 AM

Oh Sam, The show make me rage on his behalf. While I am beyond thilled that Dean finally got the got the awesome, intreaging arc that is 8 yrs comming, god knows he deserved it, I am sick at the complete character assination of Sam. [snip] I may be a total Dean girl and Sam has his faults but I used to really care for Sam and feel despite his faults he was a good person and I could see many times why Dean loved him so much but this is just crazy even for the show. Sam has his epic douche and selfish moments as has Dean but to belive the Sam who was completely devestated at loosing Dean in S4 and worked with Ruby against his better judgemnets to save his brother would just up and move on when Dean was missing and not even try to save him and not only not care he was back but almost seem annoyed to have Dean back, is baffling. The show will never ever convince that Sam does not love Dean above anyone and this is so hard to watch because even at Sam's worst characterization, I always got a sense of frusteration from Sam at not being accepted and wanting his brother's love and apparal. The boys came so far in S7 and to totally destroy it with some beyond stupid shoehorned love intrest(who was as bland and obnoixous as they come btw) and a dog is stupid. Also Sam totally turning his back on Kevin and not ever checking his phone or atempting to locate Dean. Shanangnains I say.

I too hope their is some twist we are not seeing with Sam and more then and he really did do more to help Dean because it is painful to see them take this route with Sam, much as I love Dean, I love the brother relationship so much and It is so sad to see one half of it so butcher characterwise for no real reason.

Edited by TWoP Lockley, Oct 6, 2012 @ 1:49 PM.
Use of the term "Dean girl" or "Sam girl" is not allowed. There's a lot of good insight here, but tread lightly on the whole "why do they abuse INSERTNAMEHERE so much" tone. Read the rules of the SPN forum again please

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#6705

liverpoollady

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Posted Oct 4, 2012 @ 3:15 PM

Sam is the soft target.I only hope that there is more? because the alternative is too sad to contemplate that the writers really just had him act that way for no real reason.

Edited by liverpoollady, Oct 4, 2012 @ 3:16 PM.

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#6706

orionlion

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 8:27 AM

This next episode might offer some enlightenment into what's going on in Sam's oversized noggin. But I'm already not holding my breath that it'll be in any way satisfying or make sense. I think the writers have gotten very lazy. They need the boys at odds for some reason (why, I don't know. Why not have them mostly on the same page at this point?) And they couldn't come up with a good reason for Sam to be at odds with Dean. So they didn't give him a reason. He just suddenly likes girls and dogs and that apple pie life more than hunting or even caring about his brother. That makes FRICTION! YAY our work at creating tension between the bros is done. Let's order Chinese Food!

It's a shame really, because the Show used to be so good at building belivable conflict. Season 4 Sam's motives were so pure even as they were so flawed. He really believed he was doing the right thing and it was important that he get 'er done and to him Dean was just being stubborn and bossy and so he had to push the man away. It wasn't pleasent to watch the bros' relationship crumble- but it made sense why it was happening, even if Sam was wrong wrong wrong.

This "I gave up looking for you because I hit a dog and the mean vet lady who yelled at me really turned me on and made me want that normal apple pie life I gave up on Seasons ago" motivation for Sam is beyond lame. Again, maybe they'll come up with something that makes more sense, but we'll see.

Edited by orionlion, Oct 16, 2012 @ 8:30 AM.

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#6707

katierose295

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 3:05 PM

This "I gave up looking for you because I hit a dog and the mean vet lady who yelled at me really turned me on and made me want that normal apple pie life I gave up on Seasons ago" motivation for Sam is beyond lame. Again, maybe they'll come up with something that makes more sense, but we'll see.



I agree. I'm really unhappy with the idea that Sam just abandoned Dean and went to a farmer's market. Really unhappy.

Personally, I don't care that Sam didn't try to help Kevin. The kid may be important to the myth arch but he's kinda "meh" to me, so whatever. I could probably rationalize him not looking for Cas, in a "Cas is an angel and he'll be fine and maybe I'm still a little pissed at him" kinda way. I could even accept Sam being unable to find Dean and giving up in dispair, sort of like he did in season 4. I didn't like most of season 4, but fine. I'll deal.

My point is, I know I can get (and have gotten) over a lot of sketchy behavior from these characters. I could do it, again. But Sam just not looking for Dean, at all and not even feeling bad about it... No. I don't think I can get passed that. Not if the show wants to keep up any pretense of a brotherly bond.

I want them to make those misty watercolored memories of Dr. Birthday Cake some kind of monster mind-fuck or heavenly mirage or something that explains why Sam didn't search for his missing brother. Otherwise what's the point of being invested in Sam and Dean's relationship?
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#6708

steve91199

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Posted Nov 6, 2012 @ 4:31 PM

Do you think there was any real need to have Sam tell Dean, "All of your friends are dead!" Was this just clunky exposition to remind us how alone Dean is, or do they want people to think Sam is incredibly pissed off at Dean and can't stop himself?
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#6709

FastenSeatBelts

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Posted Nov 6, 2012 @ 4:58 PM

I think he doesn't know what the world's coming to. He doesn't understand Dean and his behaviour anymore. And now it's like none of the stuff Dean says makes sense to him.
He's pissed, confused, annoyed. So I think partially it's just that he thinks it doesn't make any sense cause as a matter of fact there are no real friends left, therefore the incredolous "Garth?" and on the other hand his frustration is speaking. Not a nice thing to say, even if there's some truth.
Personally I think the writers are building up to a climax. Let's hope it's an interesting if not pleasurable one.

Edited by FastenSeatBelts, Nov 6, 2012 @ 4:58 PM.

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#6710

mizkat

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Posted Nov 6, 2012 @ 5:00 PM

Do you think there was any real need to have Sam tell Dean, "All of your friends are dead!" Was this just clunky exposition to remind us how alone Dean is, or do they want people to think Sam is incredibly pissed off at Dean and can't stop himself?


Both? I think it's clunky exposition that inadvertently reveals emotion. New viewers now know that Dean's friends are dead, and veteran viewers can see the subtext in the line. I don't think the writer's did that on purpose, though.

Although when I think about it, I hate that line because it reminds me that they've killed off all these great characters--Ellen, Jo, Trickster/Gabriel, Bobby...ugh.
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#6711

katierose295

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Posted Nov 6, 2012 @ 5:17 PM

Given that Sam has seen so many "dead" people feeling hale and healthy long after their funerals, maybe he was just curious as to which of their friends had been resurrected, now. ;)
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#6712

orionlion

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Posted Nov 6, 2012 @ 7:33 PM

I think the 'All your friends are dead' line was foreshadowing. Sam declares all Dean's friends are dead. Then Dean turns up at the docks with Benny and Sam is all 'Wow. I was wrong. Dean does have a friend... *shakes Benny's hand* And his friend is DEAD! DEAD! AHHHH! VAMPIRE! Must grab for pocket machete! AHHHH!'
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#6713

AwesomO4000

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Posted Nov 6, 2012 @ 8:51 PM

Hee Orionlion... *whispers dramtically* Sam sees dead people.
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#6714

FastenSeatBelts

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Posted Nov 8, 2012 @ 1:24 PM

Could they please get rid of Sam's Reversed Panda look? He looks like he's been "frolicing" in the sun too much, wearing the mask of Zorro or ridiculously huge sunglasses.
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#6715

caro51980

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Posted Nov 8, 2012 @ 8:05 PM

Someone please encourage me about Sam. I want to understand Sam this season but I can't. The writers are losing me. He seems so detached. If I was convinced that Sam thought Dean was dead after stabbing Dick Roman, then I would be ok with him settling down and giving up hunting. I think the Winchesters have learned that messing with the order of things and resurrecting a human is bad and unhealthy.

However, the writers decide to portray Sam as unsure about what happened to Dean, so he would just sticks his head in the sand and ignore the situation. I could maybe rationalize this behavior since Sam had no leads, but he gets angry last night when under a specter's influence Dean's innermost feelings about being abandoned in Purgatory are revealed. Why could Sam not have empathized with Dean?

I keep waiting for the writers to explain why Sam seems to keep acting this way, but it doesn't ever happen. I haven't felt this frustrated since the Soulless!Sam storyline. Maybe it is partially Jared's acting choices. I just do not understand why Sam acts the way he does. Dean's secret about Benny does not justify this at all.
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#6716

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Posted Nov 8, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

Someone please encourage me about Sam.


It's still early in the season, plenty of things don't add up, and it's still early in the season. I'm clinging to that.
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#6717

steve91199

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Posted Nov 10, 2012 @ 7:36 PM

I had a question about Sam's powers. What exactly did they entail? I saw him killing Alastair, but was that just part of the leadup of him becoming Lucifer? Are they supposed to be all gone since he's completely intact and no longer fated to be Lucifer, or are they still in him, just no longer referenced?

Edited by steve91199, Nov 10, 2012 @ 7:37 PM.

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#6718

MelindaBB

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Posted Nov 10, 2012 @ 10:43 PM

Sam's powers were apparently activated by Azazel's activity (originating with the blood Azazel gave to him as an infant and manifesting when Azazel started gathering his troops). They started with precognitive dreams related to Azazel, involved a brief flash of telekinesis when he was in proximity of a strong telekinetic who was also Azazel's, and progressed to control over demons. When Azazel died, the powers disappeared until Ruby showed up and started trying to get him to cultivate them. She revealed that he could access and gain better control over them by drinking the blood of possession victims, and this time, the powers were primarily (entirely, to my memory) demon control.

Presumably, since Azazel's dead, the only way Sam would manifest powers again is if he went back to drinking possession victims' blood. The problem with that is that the blood is strongly addictive, and he becomes delusional, arrogant, and violent when he's in the thrall of that addiction. So the potential for power is still there, but it's not something he'd probably want to use again.
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#6719

steve91199

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Posted Nov 10, 2012 @ 11:52 PM

Thanks. I wasn't sure when they stopped because I thought I'd read that he had them at one point in season 6 or 7.
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#6720

bethy

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Posted Nov 11, 2012 @ 9:01 AM

She revealed that he could access and gain better control over them by drinking the blood of possession victims, and this time, the powers were primarily (entirely, to my memory) demon control.


Didn't she also say, though, that the blood was like the feather for Dumbo? That he could have done it without the blood? Or at least implying that? It's been a long time since I watched that episode so I could be misremembering.
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