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Dean Winchester: Hotter Than Hell! Bitch.


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#13921

Observe

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 2:13 PM

That, plus Dean's speech to Bobby about Rufus being his family no matter what happened between them just makes him look like even more of a hypocrite. Dean doesn't even know what happened between those two but it should be water under the bridge because they're "family." Meanwhile, Castiel, who by Dean's own admission is also "family," is basically shunned by him.


I think it could well be that we see the Cas-as-family notion come to fruition at the end of this season? I hope so. Because I think Dean did try as hard as he realistically could under very difficult and distracting circumstances, and to be fair to him he didn't actually get that many opportunities to follow up in an endgame that was focused on turning Castiel into the bad guy.

Perhaps this will be one of the few instances where there is continuity.

ETA: wtf? Some of this is a quote – has the new look removed quote tags? I just had to reinstate them.

Edited by Observe, Mar 21, 2012 @ 8:01 AM.

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#13922

MadCaps

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 2:29 PM

Meanwhile, Castiel, who by Dean's own admission is also "family," is basically shunned by him.

But again that is ignoring Cas' actions after the reveal and looking only at one or two lines of dialogue rather than the entirety of the storyline. Dean asked Cas not to continue with his plan to open purgatory because they already knew the damage that could cause because Eve slipped through, which eventually resulted in Rufus' death. Cas refused and then dismissed Dean as only a man. He then stole journals from Bobby under the pretense of making nice with Dean. Then Crowley, Cas' partner, kidnapped and almost killed Lisa and Ben. I think it would have been completely out of character for Dean to just forgive and forget given the number of people that he cared about that were hurt by Cas' deal with Crowley.

As for Dean's forgiveness speech, that came across to me as Dean's oblique way for getting Bobby to get over his issues with Sam. And considering that he had forgiven Sam for his betrayal in season 4 and forgiven Bobby for keeping Sam's resurrection a secret from him, I think he has some moral authority to make that point.

Dean will forgive Cas eventually because that's who he is. But that doesn't mean it should have happened immediately or that he should have just tucked his tail between his legs and gone along with whatever Cas wanted. To me, that's the exact same argument that says Dean was at fault for Sam releasing Lucifer because he didn't trust Sam and follow along with him and Ruby. But that wouldn't have changed the final outcome, just like Dean going along with Cas would have changed the fact that Cas sucked up all the souls and then released the leviathan. Dean was trying to stop both of them not because he's bossy and mean, well at least not just because he's bossy and mean, but because he thought they were wrong and he was right. Both did not trust Dean's instincts and brought about disaster because of it.

That's not to say that Dean shouldn't forgive Cas eventually, but I just don't see Dean's reaction to being betrayed AGAIN by someone he trusted and considered family, is in any way hypocritical or wrong.

Edited by MadCaps, Mar 19, 2012 @ 2:37 PM.

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#13923

LightMyCandle

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 2:37 PM

As for Dean's forgiveness speech, that came across to me as Dean's oblique way for getting Bobby to get over his issues with Sam.


Bobby had issues with Sam? Is that what you're saying? I don't remember that. But, I zoned out through most of season six.

That's not to say that Dean shouldn't forgive Cas eventually, but I just don't see Dean's reaction to being betrayed AGAIN by someone he trusted and considered family, is in any way hypocritical or wrong.


I think what I'm getting at is what Observe said. The way it was written made it look like Dean was a hypocrite, but it was the result of some sloppy writing, not a true reflection on Dean. Dean has every right to be angry at Castiel. He screwed up badly and I really hope he gets the chance to make good on his promise to redeem himself to Dean. I just wish the whole situation had been handled better. But, I'm not saying that it's wrong for Dean to be angry. I just hope Gamble allows him to get to the forgiveness part and for Cas to earn it because I would feel cheated and disappointed if the two of them never get to at least make peace with each other.
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#13924

MadCaps

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 2:41 PM

I think it could well be that we see the Cas-as-family notion come to fruition at the end of this season? I hope so. Because I think Dean did try as hard as he realistically could under very difficult and distracting circumstances, and to be fair to him he didn't actually get that many opportunities to follow up in an endgame that was focused on turning Castiel into the bad guy.

Perhaps this will be one of the few instances where there is continuity.

Yes exactly. If they had kept Cas around and actually given him a redemption arc, this would most likely have been resolved for now. Instead, Gamble attempted to use this to get rid of the character so it seems like Dean is holding a grudge or something, when he just hasn't had a chance to resolve anything with Cas.

Bobby had issues with Sam? Is that what you're saying? I don't remember that. But, I zoned out through most of season six.

He was wiggy with Sam after soulless sam tried to kill him.

Also sorry, I edited my post to clarify a bit. :)
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#13925

sallymonelly

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 6:16 PM

but Dean getting so high and mighty about Cas working with Crowley as if it were the worst thing he could possibly do

It was the worst thing to do. Dean and Sam are humans, but Cas is an angel. For him to be cohorting with a demon was beyond just, oops.

Meanwhile, Castiel, who by Dean's own admission is also "family," is basically shunned by him.

The shunning, if I recall, came from Cas originally, when he decided that going to Crowley was better than going to Dean. Granted Cas excused himself by claiming it was for Dean, but Cas also admitted that it was done more out of pride than for Dean.

I think it could well be that we see the Cas-as-family notion come to fruition at the end of this season? I hope so.

I hope so too.

I think both have made mistakes, but to keep blaming Dean for not falling all over himself forgiving Cas cheapens the relationship for me. Dean doesn't need another character that will be whitewashed at his expense, so I hope that the unique relationship that Dean and Cas have will be realistic, a two-way street, and, considering the actors, I have no problem believing that both Jensen and Misha will make their characters work through this crisis.
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#13926

LightMyCandle

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 7:07 PM

I hope that the unique relationship that Dean and Cas have will be realistic, a two-way street, and, considering the actors, I have no problem believing that both Jensen and Misha will make their characters work through this crisis.


Jensen and Misha are great and I love watching them work, separately and together. But, whether their characters work through their issues isn't really up to them. They can do the best they have with their material, but they're not the writers. Considering how things were left (and I'm not convinced that it wasn't supposed to be the last we ever saw of Cas) I simply do not trust Gamble to allow them to work through their issues. That's what I'm really afraid of. And bringing Cas back in an episode where Sam is suddenly dying doesn't fill me with much hope that there's gonna be much work done on their relationship, just more anger and hurt between them.
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#13927

sallymonelly

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 7:18 PM

But, whether their characters work through their issues isn't really up to them.

I think the subtext will be there because both actors are capable enough of bringing more to their characters than the writers write. Jensen's done it since day one of this show and I've seen Misha bring to Cas' characters even though the writing was not there.

And bringing Cas back in an episode where Sam is suddenly dying doesn't fill me with much hope that there's gonna be much work done on their relationship, just more anger and hurt between them.

As I see it, and hopefully it will work out this way, both Dean and Cas have a common goal, to cure Sam. While I'd rather that the characters were given something more interesting to do and something that entailed their relationship, the show is what it is, unfortunately. Still, it can be hoped that Dean and Cas can work together both to heal Sam, again, and to resolve their conflict.

Edited by sallymonelly, Mar 19, 2012 @ 7:36 PM.

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#13928

LightMyCandle

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 7:42 PM

ITA that the actors can bring the subtext and it certainly helps where the writing fails, but there's only so much they can do, IMO. And I wonder if it'll be enough.

Still, it can be hoped that Dean and Cas can work together both to heal Sam, again, and to resolve their conflict.


I kind of wish it were a two part episode. That's just a lot to cram into an hour. Plus, Meg's gonna be there, so there goes even more time (not that I'm complaining about her. More Meg is always a good thing as far as I'm concerned). I'm willing to bet that Sam will at least be functioning by the end of this episode but Dean and Castiel's issues will not be resolved and they'll leave us hanging for a few episodes until he comes back for whatever reason. The last two seasons have just beaten the optimism out of me, lol.
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#13929

sallymonelly

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 7:37 AM

I kind of wish it were a two part episode.

I don't. I don't care to see a longer version of Sam and his hellpain, again, and having the show go on and on about his poor suffering self. Two seasons is long enough as it is, and I'm just waiting for the story to finally pop open like the zit that it was so someone can pour peroxide on it and be done with it.

but Dean and Castiel's issues will not be resolved and they'll leave us hanging for a few episodes until he comes back for whatever reason.

Maybe they will, but at least it will give me something more to look forward to than Sam's next problem.

The last two seasons have just beaten the optimism out of me, lol.

Beaten it to a pulp, dragged it through the ground and mashed it in a blender without even a second look back. Yeah, I've lost any and all faith in this show. It certainly is nothing like it was and it doesn't seem there is any capable PTB who knows how to tell a good story about more than just one character. Nor is there one that can tell a story that hasn't been told at least twice over already.

Edited by sallymonelly, Mar 20, 2012 @ 7:39 AM.

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#13930

sallysweeet

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 1:54 PM

Dean will forgive Cas eventually because that's who he is. But that doesn't mean it should have happened immediately or that he should have just tucked his tail between his legs and gone along with whatever Cas wanted. To me, that's the exact same argument that says Dean was at fault for Sam releasing Lucifer because he didn't trust Sam and follow along with him and Ruby. But that wouldn't have changed the final outcome, just like Dean going along with Cas would have changed the fact that Cas sucked up all the souls and then released the leviathan. Dean was trying to stop both of them not because he's bossy and mean, well at least not just because he's bossy and mean, but because he thought they were wrong and he was right. Both did not trust Dean's instincts and brought about disaster because of it.

That's not to say that Dean shouldn't forgive Cas eventually, but I just don't see Dean's reaction to being betrayed AGAIN by someone he trusted and considered family, is in any way hypocritical or wrong.


IA. Dean did what he could to try and stop both of them, but they didn't listen and that's on them. They made their own decisions and the actions they took are theirs. Dean forgave Sam, Dean will forgive Castiel (but, we might have to get passed Sera Gamble's episode for that to happen).
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#13931

hat

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Posted Mar 21, 2012 @ 5:47 PM

I think Dean will eventually forgive Cas, and I hope the show will tell a great story of how Dean and Cas will learn to be brothers again. Dean does miss Cas and it was Cas' betrayal the hurt Dean the most. While it will take a while, I think Dean will come to understand that, while an angel, Cas was not infallable and it was Dean's close friendship with Cas that may have been one of the reasons Cas chose the path he did. The other reason was the pride of an angel, but that will have to be something that Cas needs to forgive about himself.

It will be an interesting journey for both Dean and Cas if the show plays it well, and if the writers give the time and telling that it deserves.
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#13932

glorygirl84

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Posted May 19, 2012 @ 9:15 AM

Dean was so awesome in this episode. He finally got his chance to shine, after being so sidelined and pushed aside all season. Dean was the smart, badass capable, leader that made his character so awesome and has been lacking since S3.

I loved Dean outsmarting and killing Dick Roman, as he did with Eve. Never underestimate Dean Winchester.

As awesome as Dean is, I think having Castiel around, makes Dean even more awesome, their is just something Castiel brings to Dean, that no other character does. Castiel is the only character who has sacrifised everything because he loved Dean. Dean is not used to being number 1 to anyone but he always is for Castiel and no matter what, Castiel cannot ever not come through for Dean in some way. I loved Dean extending an olive branch and wanting to forgive Castiel. I think deep down he knows, he needs Castiel as a friend.


I am so excited for Dean's arc next season. Never thought I would see that day. I just pray they do not mess this up. Dean could actually have an awesome, epic, important storyline that impacts him and gives him something intresting to do and he is with Castiel which is icing on the cake. JA will knock it out of the park as usual.
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#13933

hat

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Posted May 19, 2012 @ 5:15 PM

I am so excited for Dean's arc next season.

Me too. I can't wait to see what Carver will do with it and I hope it will be more than just a quick fix and then everyone is back together doing the same ol, same ol. I want this story to last because creepy forests with dangerous beasts is awesome and Dean needing to use his wits, guts and smarts to survive, along with Cas, should make for some great drama. Please don't let this story be destroyed and given to other characters like every Dean story has been so far.
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#13934

Observe

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Posted May 19, 2012 @ 6:27 PM

I am so excited for Dean's arc next season. Never thought I would see that day. I just pray they do not mess this up. Dean could actually have an awesome, epic, important storyline that impacts him and gives him something intresting to do and he is with Castiel which is icing on the cake. JA will knock it out of the park as usual.


I agree so much. I hope the show doesn't waste this and I really hope they utilize Misha Collins fully opposite Ackles, since I think the J2 chemistry is leaden to non-existent these days. Ackles deserves a story arc that remains his, that gives him some decent material to get his teeth into, and that progresses his character rather than regresses it.

Edited by Observe, May 19, 2012 @ 6:31 PM.

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#13935

Kojuro

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Posted May 19, 2012 @ 11:47 PM

Ackles deserves a story arc that remains his, that gives him some decent material to get his teeth into, and that progresses his character rather than regresses it.


Summed up beautifully, Observe. I'm so tired of the hamster wheel Dean's been on. Ackles does his damnedest to keep life and spark in it but it has to be disheartening to see your hard work squandered all the time. It's time to move Dean forward and progress his character, not deconstruct it, not regress it, not try to make someone else "the new Dean" while giving the "old Dean" nothing to do but stand by and watch. Dean is all the Dean the show needs and he's been, imo, brilliantly portrayed by Ackles for 7 years now. Give it some payoff instead of a treatmill.

Let Dean be the protagonist in his own storyline, let his experiences mean something, let them allow him to bring something useful to the table in the overall storyline. Something other than "oh you're weak, you're pathetic, you're just a human, you're replaceable in this story".

This is a great opportunity to showcase Dean's innate intelligence and creativity and make it essential to their survival in Purgatory. People sometimes pay a bit of lipservice to "booksmarts and streetsmarts of equal" but mostly on this show - the writers simply get lazy have everything findable in a book of some sort. Something someone else has already written down, already discovered. And normally it's someone else who researches it and finds it(Bobby, Sam, though Dean's capable of doing research too).

This is a chance to put their money where their mouth is and show "streetsmarts"(creative intelligence, the ability to learn on the fly and quickly) is truly just as respected someone who knows how to crack open a book.

We've seen enough of Dean over the years, IMO, to see that he is really a very intelligent man and it's a complex intelligence as well. He's great at thinking on his feet, he learns quickly, he's creative in how he uses what he learns, he knows how to put other people's abilities to good use(which is one the things that makes him a good leader), he's got great instincts, which is really just another way of saying he internalizes what he's already learned well, he's good at reading situations because he's observant--often even when it doesn't look like he was paying attention. He's clever.

He has his own areas of expertise - like he seems to know a good deal about how plants are used in spells and magic.

Dean also seems to be a real whiz when it comes to some spells - there has been at least twice on the show where Dean's seen something done once, done in a real hurry and he's been able to exactly recall the writing or ingredients to re-create the spell(Ep 5.1 and The French Mistake are what I recall off the top of my head). He's good at recognizing patterns and symbols.

He's got good mechanical and technical abilities - he built an EMF meter, he's the one who decided they should use salt shot gun shells(see Hookman - Sam is surprised to see salt shotgun shells, apparently they didn't use them when he was around, Dean implies it was his idea--he didn't invent them, I've heard that farmers and such often use them to scare animals away but John apparently didn't use them when Dean and Sam were growing up until after Sam left for college), he built an EMF "bomb"(Ghostfacers), he can rebuild a car, he can disarm some pretty advanced security systems.

Now the electronics probably won't be a problem in Purgatory. :D But the idea behind the skills are transferable. If he could figure out how to do all that stuff, he can figure out how the world works in Purgatory as well and come up with ways to use what's around them to try to defend themselves. I don't know what kind of plant life is in Purgatory but there is some sort of plant life there - which means something might be useful at some point against some creature. He, with Castiel's help assuming Castiel remains there, should be able to come up with ways to survive.

Sometimes I think one of Dean's biggest problems has been that he doesn't think of himself as intelligent so he just assumes someone "smart" will know better on certain things. Aside from the occasional doubts, he basically trusts his instincts but he doesn't necessarily trust his actual knowledge.

Like that episode I think it was called War What Is It Good For(5.2?) - that was great example. Dean knew the answer but Ellen almost had to point it out to him and I loved her for recognizing it like she did. He knew, he'd read the Bible passages and once she said essentially "Think for a second, you can figure this out, you don't need to call Bobby or Sam" and he did--he knew how to apply what he'd read in abstract way to the situation at hand. I remember, in that scene, feeling really good for him.
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#13936

Clio78

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Posted May 20, 2012 @ 1:23 AM

I am so excited for Dean's arc next season. Never thought I would see that day. I just pray they do not mess this up. Dean could actually have an awesome, epic, important storyline that impacts him and gives him something intresting to do and he is with Castiel which is icing on the cake. JA will knock it out of the park as usual.

I agree so much. I hope the show doesn't waste this and I really hope they utilize Misha Collins fully opposite Ackles, since I think the J2 chemistry is leaden to non-existent these days. Ackles deserves a story arc that remains his, that gives him some decent material to get his teeth into, and that progresses his character rather than regresses it.

Agreeing. So. Hard. Hoping Carver is unafraid to break the mold. Ready to have the Winchesters do their own thing, but separately. Take this opportunity to explore and refresh characters' relationships.

Above all, it's indeed giving Dean something that is his. It's the hunter becoming the hunted. It's surviving in a whole different way. (I wonder if he can die in Purgatory. Or if it works like Hell.)
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#13937

Xiaomei

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Posted May 20, 2012 @ 9:04 AM

Indeed, there is lots of potential for the next season. And with JA directing the first episode, certainly Dean won't be misrepresented.

I was delighted to see Dean making one of his trademark "inappropriate humor comment": let's bone this nun. Just like old Dean. Yeah! Now, please, set Dean back to hunting with wit and humor.
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#13938

MadCaps

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 3:15 PM

So did anyone understand what the point was of Dean's who emo/depression/alcoholism "arc" this year. They seemed to bang us over the head with it for a bunch of episodes, then it just disappeared without any pay-off or resolution. Anyone got any fanwank that I can use as headcanon to fill in the gaps, since the writers couldn't be bothered?
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#13939

phidra

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 3:25 PM

So did anyone understand what the point was of Dean's who emo/depression/alcoholism "arc" this year.

Probably the same point Dean's "domestic" arc had last season, basically filler and giving the producers something to talk about where Dean was concerned.

Indeed, there is lots of potential for the next season.

There sure is. I hope it's not squandered like Kripke and Gamble squandered so many opportunities for great stories just because they involved Dean.

I was delighted to see Dean making one of his trademark "inappropriate humor comment": let's bone this nun.

LOL, that truly was vintage Dean. Good to have him back.
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#13940

MichaelaBelle

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 4:20 PM

let's bone this nun.

I found that comment so unnecessary and disrespectful. I didn't see the humor in it. They were desecrating a dead nun's grave. Show some respect.
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#13941

MadCaps

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 5:03 PM

Meh! They desecrate graves almost every week so I don't see how this is any different. Besides Dean's irreverent humor is one of my favorite things about him but it has been MIA for far too long so I'm not going to feel bad for getting a chuckle out of it.

Probably the same point Dean's "domestic" arc had last season, basically filler and giving the producers something to talk about where Dean was concerned.

It's kind of shocking how blatant they are in not even trying to give one of only two leads an actual storyline. At least last year they tried to pretend there was an actual storyarc with Lisa/Ben even though it was painfully obvious that the story was over after the vampire Dean business. But this year, they didn't even bother with to fake it.

In fact, I don't even understand the point of getting rid of Impala for the entire season since this supposed stripping Dean of everything led to exactly nothing. It's just mind-bogglingly lazy, IMO.

Oh well, let's hope that the purgatory thing actually goes somewhere and isn't just magicked away in the first couple of episodes. Dean is in desperate need of revitalization as a character after Gamble's two years of deconstructing him for no apparent reason.

Edited by MadCaps, May 21, 2012 @ 5:04 PM.

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#13942

hat

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 5:44 PM

Having been raised by nuns, I've heard worse and I agree, I miss Dean's impudent and often impulsive humor.

Dean is in desperate need of revitalization as a character after Gamble's two years of deconstructing him for no apparent reason.

I'd say let Jensen have full control over his own character, like he seemed to have before season 5. I also feel that the writers could write Dean as the BDH he used to be if they are not limited in their creativity. Funny how the lack of good Dean material translated into boring episodes.
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#13943

Sudoka

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 10:59 PM

And with JA directing the first episode, certainly Dean won't be misrepresented.

Usually the episodes that he directs are fairly "Dean-lite", one was a Bobby centric episode, and the other was almost all about Sam. That might imply that the first episode back will focus on Sam's struggles by himself in the real world. I really hope that it's not the case, but I would think it would be difficult to focus on directing when you're acting in the majority of the episode.
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#13944

Tralah

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 11:05 PM

I heard it suggested that even though Jensen is directing the first episode that they're filming, it might not necessarily be the one that's used for the premiere if they're not shooting the episodes in sequential order.
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#13945

RestlessThought

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Posted May 22, 2012 @ 1:46 AM

Very true, Tralah, he directed the first episodes filmed of season six and seven too, which of course aired as the fourth and third episodes.

Back to Dean. :)
My sister, who has admittedly only seen a handful of episodes from season's one, four and seven (plus the Trickster ones), has decided that it's Dean that gives Supernatural it's atmosphere. Dean and anyone else (in her example she used Adam) would still have a 'Supernatural' feel, but Sam and someone else would have a completely different feel (her reasoning seemed to be that Dean would focus on hunting and Sam would split his interests). I told her wait until season eight, and hopefully you'll be able to test your theory out. :D Season six had a different feel because of the Noir vibe and Soulless!Sam, I think season eight could turn Supernatural upside down again by once more having a different dynamic (and new partners) for each brother. Dean trying to escape and hunting straight monsters more like the early seasons (hell, could even have Sam somehow sending short messages like their dad did) and Sam doing mytharc stuff to rescue him and stop Crowley. Best of both worlds, make both brothers interesting and better play to the character's strengths.

I don't think Dean and Castiel in Purgatory will last long though, because of the potentially jarring viewpoint jump from brother to brother, each doing their own thing with necessarily shorter story bits for each plot. But I have my fingers crossed since Once Upon A Time makes it work and yeah, this is the most interesting development for Dean in a long time.
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#13946

hat

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Posted May 22, 2012 @ 7:14 AM

it's Dean that gives Supernatural it's atmosphere.

That's an interesting concept RestlessThought. I never realized it but she has a point. Maybe this is what people mean when they state that Dean is the heart of the show. Maybe it's because he gives the show its definition just by being the hunter that he is and because his character has been actively involved in the supernatural for most of his life.

Dean, in a way, is supernatural itself. He’s killed so many adversaries, but the way he’s killed some has been very interesting and bizarre. Killing Zach and staring into angel grace without burning out his eyes. Yeah I know it was done by Meg also, which really diminished the awesomeness of angel death, but Dean’s kill was still one of the most memorable moments. We’ve seen him kill the Phoenix, as well as ingest Phoenix ash to kill Eve with. He killed the Whore when he shouldn’t have been able to. Dean is a ruthless monster killer, cold blooded when he needs to be, and I think this also plays a part, because like any hunter, he will get the job done no matter how ugly the job is.

I think season eight could turn Supernatural upside down again by once more having a different dynamic (and new partners) for each brother

I hope it really does. This show could use some extreme rennovation to get it back on its feet. I think the finale is a great start for setting up a story where all the characters play an important part and I can't wait to see it.
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#13947

Xiaomei

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 12:44 AM

Vesper19 said in 7.23:

The writers can't seem to decide if they want goofy, junk-food lovin'/skirt-chasing Dean or all-hope-is-lost Dean. He goes from that great, forced sad smile trying to brave an uncertain future in one episode, to a cowboy the next, then on to craving a giant slinky. It's jarring and frustrating.


I actually feel that he can be both, that the "happy" side is a defense against all the hardship he's got to deal as a hunter, plus the overwhelming burden of guilt which is the elephant in the room all the time. But yeah, it has been overdone. This season 8 was particularly painful to watch as the "dark" side took over with silliness and not too much logic. They stripped the joy, they took away all his sources of joy, his possibilities even for romance -no more one night stands!- and for what? Character development there wasn't. Dark, kamikazi Dean at this point, after al that has happened before and he still kept a bit of humor, had no coherence.

I like Hat's suggestion that Dean is a bit supernatural himself. If the Winchesters -well, from the Campbell side- come from a line of hunters, it would be interesting to see if they had an angel or some other natural enemy of teh Big Bad somewhere in the bloodline. Maybe they are all nephilims, which would explain the affinity with Castiel, and Cas bigger problem with Sam.
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#13948

hat

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 6:47 AM

it would be interesting to see if they had an angel or some other natural enemy of teh Big Bad somewhere in the bloodline. Maybe they are all nephilims, which would explain the affinity with Castiel, and Cas bigger problem with Sam.

Now this is an interesting theory that's been thrown around, especially during and after season 4. Too bad Gamble adn Kripke didn't go this route. The Winchester family has been manipulated and bred by the angels for generations, it could well be that at some point, the generation needed some "help" to get them to reach the product the angels needed, Dean and Sam as perfect vessels for the archangels.

I wonder if there is something in Dean that senses that, and that is why he is so close to Cas, and why the betrayal by Cas hit a much deeper nerve than all the other betrayals Dean has experienced, including John's and Sam's. Cas was a pure angel before he fell, something reminiscent of Lucifer. Maybe Dean's sense of betrayal went further than being betrayed by a friend.

No doubt the show will never go there, but it's fun to speculate.
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#13949

wench

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Posted May 30, 2012 @ 4:39 PM

So much for all that potential... does this smell like "same old same old" to any of you?

https://twitter.com/...0/photo/1/large

As a Dean fan, I'm just WTF forever now. It's one thing to neglect telling a proactive Dean storyline - there were important things afoot, and they couldn't be writing N/A stuff to satisfy me. But he's in Freaking Purgatory! You mean you aren't going to SHOW him dealing with his own story?

God, I hope I'm reading too much into that "time jump" comment :( Because, hello, Hell anyone???
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#13950

hat

hat

    Couch Potato

Posted May 30, 2012 @ 5:39 PM

does this smell like "same old same old" to any of you?

It does to me and it also seems like they are now trying the human quality Sam vs the supernatural. Meanwhile, Dean is once again just a character that is needed to keep the focus on the special snowflake. I had hoped better from Carver, but from the sounds of it, it does feel like the same old, same old.

Having said that, this is Singer, who seems to feel that the only character in the show is Sam. So maybe he is, once again, only seeing the story as it relates to Sam and maybe Carver does or will give Dean something of his own that doesn't involve Sam or holding Sam's hand or talking about Sam in every other sentence.

, I hope I'm reading too much into that "time jump" comment :( Because, hello, Hell anyone???

It is unbefuckingly unbelievable how the show just does not seem to grasp the potential of awesome storylines and just squanders every opportunity to make this show as good as it could be.

Edited by hat, May 30, 2012 @ 5:41 PM.

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