336 replies to this topic

[AB Chao]

Hello! Welcome to your pretty new forum. If you are new here, be sure to acquaint yourself with the FAQ before you post. Here's a handy list of Dos and Don'ts if you need a refresher course.

A couple of notes:

Spoilers: The spoiler policy here is the same as in the site-wide FAQ; spoilers go in the spoiler thread, and make sure to use tags for spoilers that are not posted in the actual spoiler thread. As ever, anything that has already aired in previews and/or made available in the media is not a spoiler.

Thread Titles: Please format character threads as follows: [Character Name]: [Clever Follow-Up, If Desired]. For example, "Dr. Derek Shepherd: So Dreamy!" This will make it easier for newcomers to see where they're supposed to be posting. For other threads, just make sure you've made the title specific enough for others to know what it means. Obscurity is no friend of ours!

That's it! Be sweet, and have fun.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Apr 18, 2008 @ 3:10 PM.
Updated links

[AB Chao]

Hey kids, I'm going to be taking a little break, so the fabulous Erin will be covering both my recapping and moderating duties. Be good to her or I'll have to come back and smack you upside the head, Bailey-style. Thanks for being such a great group!

[LTG]

As I mentioned in a different thread, Lauren and I are making a few changes to the forums. I just wanted to share a bit of general thinking about the forums, and then tell you about some of the specific changes.

In some iteration of the site FAQ, posters were asked to think of the forums as a cocktail party. I like that image. You're at a cocktail party, and people are standing around and talking about different topics. If you walk up to a group, you check out the conversation a bit before jumping in. You may disagree with other people, and tell them that, but you do it politely. You don't throw your drink in someone's face and call them an idiot. After you've made your point once or twice and it's clear that someone continues to disagree with you, you let it be and move on to a different topic. And if someone else violates one of these rules and commits a faux pas, you overlook it and let it go by without comment, because that's the gracious thing to do.

In short, you should able to have a conversation with other posters in which you demonstrate mutual respect. And you should be able to disagree with each other without getting personal. And if you can't, and if you are constantly trying to stir up fights, you're going to be asked to leave. And if someone else is doing all that stuff, either ignore the other poster or report him or her. The mods will enforce the rules.

Some specific changes:

1) There will be no "unpopular opinions" thread, no "bitterness" thread, and no threads devoted just to fans or enemies of a particular relationship. There should be no need for one point of view to be privileged over any other in any section of these forums. If you have an opinion about makeup, or a character, or an episode, or an actor, you should share that opinion in the appropriate thread. If you feel that you are being attacked over that opinion, e-mail me or another mod (or report the attack in the Forum Traffic Court).

2) I hate portmanteau names applied to relationships. I think they're completely smurfy and disgusting. You're free to continue to use those names if you want to, but don't put them into thread titles.

3) There's way too much fighting over people's perceptions of the body size of various characters or actors (mostly female). I've asked people to knock it off in a few threads because it's gotten way too personal and angry. But even where that kind of talk might be appropriate or allowed, there will be no tolerance for the use of ugly or hate-filled words to describe various body types. If you call a perfectly healthy woman like Katherine Heigel a "fat cow," you might as well have aimed that insult at a poster.

I think the overwhelming majority of posters in this section are smart and sane and have interesting things to say. And I think there are a few posters who take things way too personally and are always looking to stir up some shit. Those over-invested shit-stirrers need to calm down or leave so everyone else can enjoy the conversation.

As always, if you have questions, concerns, comments, insults, related to any of these changes, feel free to e-mail me at ltg@televisionwithoutpity.com.

Edited by LTG, Oct 5, 2006 @ 10:34 AM.

[LTG]

Just a reminder: As per the FAQ, please don't start your posts with words like "um." No matter how innocently you mean it, it tends to come off as snotty, which is why we ask all posters to avoid doing that.

Thanks.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Apr 18, 2008 @ 3:11 PM.
Updated link

[LTG]

So, there's an obvious desire to talk about the sexual chemistry (or lack thereof) that exists between the characters of Derek and Meredith or the actors of Patrick Dempsey or Ellen Pompeo. When that discussion is about the show, it's fine and on-topic. But there have been a number of instances in which people have posted about the question of whether PD and EP are having an affair in real life. Lauren and I have spoken, and we are asking that people end that discussion.

There are three reasons for this. First, neither of their partners are celebrities (and as far as I know they haven't really asked to be in the public eye), so it seems unseemly to be speculating about whether they are being cuckolded. Second, it's not really about the show or about the careers of the actors -- and the speculative talk tends to push out on-topic talk about those things. Third, we both find it kind of creepy -- it demonstrates (in our opinion) an inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality. If you are a person who needs to believe that these two actors are in love and burning with desire for each other -- I would respectfully suggest that you go outside, get some fresh air, and stop watching so much television. (And if that means you stop posting on TWoP -- we'll take that risk.)

So, until and unless there is some actual media discussion of an actual affair between these two, please cease that discussion.

As always, if you have questions or complaints, feel free to e-mail me or Lauren.

[Lauren S]

One more posting guideline for today -- we've received a number of requests about all of the posting in the third person. It was a funny gimmick in the episode but when you guys post that way it's a bit harder to focus on what you're saying rather than just noticing your handle repeatedly. From here on out, all posts should be back in normal first person, thank you!

[Lauren S]

All posters need to heed this announcement. Obviously some very sensitive issues are coming up right now with everything that has happened on-set, at the Golden Globes, and in the media. I understand that everyone has very strong opinions about what happened. But in discussion about these events, guidelines need to be followed.

1. You need to respect your fellow posters and their opinions, and maintain conversations in a polite manner. No one is attacking anyone personally, and if they are, they will be banned.

2. You need to stay on topic. This has been a HUGE problem of late in a number of different threads. It just takes common sense -- if you are not discussing the subject of the thread you're in, stop what you're doing, delete what you're typing, and take it to the appropriate area. There have been repeated warnings, and any threads that continue to go off-topic will be closed immediately and for the foreseeable future.

We understand that there is a lot to discuss and that everyone feels very strongly about recent events, but we want to make sure that these forums remain a safe, civil place for people to discuss what has happened, and we will be keeping a very close eye to insure that it remains so.

[LTG]

So here's a question I've been asked:

"Why are you always yelling at us to stay on topic?"

It's because most people go to a thread actually looking to read about and discuss a particular topic. If someone wants to see the links to the latest newspaper stories about the show, it's hard to do when the media thread is filled up with twenty pages of discussion about whether IW is or is not a homophobe.

Posters who constantly go off-topic, and the other posters who respond to them, impose an enormous burden on other posters. If you want to be able to post about whatever strikes your fancy regardless of what thread you're in -- find another place to post. As Lauren noted, we're going to close threads that continually go off-topic, and we're going to start banning people who contribute to the problem.

[TWoP Mars]

OK, first things first, I'm sure some of you have noticed me patrolling this place, but I'm not your official moderator yet, as assignments are still being handed down. So, don't get too used to me hanging around yet.

That said, I want to post a couple of reminders, as I'm seeing a few repeated problems across the "Grey's" boards.

1. Please don't post one sentence saying that you're waiting for someone to post ... spoilers or photos or news or whatever. If there's something to say, someone will say it. Please don't waste bandwidth asking people to post more.

2. In the same vein, please don't quote a huge chunk of someone else's post just to say "Agreed." If you have something to add to the discussion, add it. But simply agreeing doesn't add anything. And it sucks up bandwidth.

Thanks!

I've opened this thread so that a new message will show up when I post. If you didn't read the previous one, please do. I'm still noticing lots of huge quotes with "Word" or "Agreed" posts. Elaborate or don't post at all, please.

One other thing, please post a link if you're going to quote a huge chunk or an entire article. That's a copyright violation and it's in the FAQ. Thanks!

[TWoP Mars]

Just want to let you all know that it turns out I will be your official mod at this place -- at least for now.

I should warn you that I am not a regular "Grey's" viewer, but I do follow the show enough to know what's what.

The moderating duties could change, but for the time being, I'll be the one you'll most frequently see around these parts.

[Mitch0046]

So now we have mods and recappers? I read the FAQ, but couldn't find that answer. And welcome! Do we know you by any other name?

[TWoP Mars]

Mitch, Yep, mods and recappers are separate entities now. Some of the mods are also recappers, but I'm not one of them. I've been around TWoP for years as a poster/reader, but this is my first time doing any work for them. So, you don't know me by any recapper name, if that's what you're asking.

[HotButteredRum]

Was your poster name TWoP Mars also, or did you post using a different name and if so, what was it? C'mon now, spill.... We promise not to give you a hard time for any embaressing "Denny Crane rocks my freaking world" or "Kiefer: Marry Me" posts that we dig up from your past.

Edited by HotButteredRum, Aug 10, 2007 @ 10:53 PM.

[TWoP Mars]

Sorry for the delay in responding this. I was considering whether to remain anonymous or reveal my non-mod identity.

I decided anonymity is not for me, so ... my name is DeAnn and my non-mod TWoP name is DMW_SFU. Don't go digging up my history and using it against me, though. I wasn't a mod then, so it's likely I was a squeeing fangirl, or even that I broke a rule or two at some point.

[shepsloan]

Can this thread also show in Grey Matter? For those of us that spend most of our time in Grey Matter we don't see these announcements unless we happen to open Gabbery.

Thanks.

[TWoP Mars]

shepsloan, sorry it took me so long, but I put a copy of this thread in Grey Chatter, and as you'll notice, it doesn't update the time stamp or tell you when there's something new over here. I don't think there's any other way to do it, so I guess I can't help you out by putting something over there for the folks who don't come in General Gabbery often. My only suggestion would be to check in over here occasionally, as this thread will have important stuff on occasion. Thanks. And sorry I couldn't make that work.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Sep 5, 2007 @ 1:23 AM.

[tribema]

I really appreciate the modding this forum has had lately. However, there's one issue that to me is why I find this forum quite a struggle to read and have had on my mind:

Is there a line that can be drawn between people who are trolls and the fact that this isn't a fan site? I understand the latter and it's what I like about this forum, but it's clear that in one or two threads (particularly the Katherine Heigl one) there are several people who when anything is posted, will express disgust at everything, generally resurrecting the same points in defence.

It's thoroughly tiresome and has been going on for a very long time.

Like I said - I know this isn't a fan site but I think it's clear that obsessive hate is what's motivating these posters. I'd like to be able to visit a thread and not see over the top hate from the same people on every page, in the same way I don't expect to see over the top squeeing here. To me, they're flip sides of the same coin.

I think it's a real shame that there are rational threads for every actor in Grey's except Katherine Heigl. And by 'rational' I mean that there can be pros and cons discussed but there isn't persistent trolling at hand. In the space of a day, the Kate Walsh thread had some criticism in it and imploded (and I did myself express a negative comment, but it's about the only one there I have made) but with Heigl, it's been going on forever. Like I said, it's tiresome and in my mind is the one problem area that would really benefit from the increased modding.

Please don't interpret that as me saying that I can't stand criticism. I'm fine with that. I like criticism. But I'm talking about the line between trolling and criticism.

ETA: To clarify, I meant any new piece of information or picture about Katherine Heigl. A picture or interview cannot be posted without it being derided, etc. That's what I mean.

Edited by tribema, Sep 5, 2007 @ 8:56 AM.

[abbystella]

I am one of the frequent negative posters on the KH thread and I feel that I do not just bring up my dislike of KH out of the blue. I try to be very specific in my comments, not just "I hate KH". It usually pertains to an interview or such that has been brought to the board. As of late, I try to only post a couple of times when it pertains to each topic relating to her and then I move on (fortunately for me, she says or does something worth commenting on regularly).

there are several people who when anything is posted, will express disgust at everything, generally resurrecting the same points in defence.

BTW, if you check my posts on the KH thread (as of late from the 24th of August until the 3rd of Sept), there were several posts that I wanted to and could have responded to....but I chose not to. So for you to say I am a troll and respond to anything that is posted, it is a bit of a stretch.

ETA: To clarify, I meant any new piece of information or picture about Katherine Heigl. A picture or interview cannot be posted without it being derided, etc. That's what I mean.

No one made a negative comment from August 24th thru Sept 3rd and there were several posts that I wanted to comment on (the new magazine ad, her comment that she is staying on GA, her old pic, new pics of her and Josh etc....)

Edited by abbystella, Sep 5, 2007 @ 9:16 AM.

[TWoP Mars]

I told the thread not to keep repeating the same things, like the knock-kneed thing. I really am trying to keep that under control, as in: Keeping people following the rules, which means NOT repeating the same thing over and over. I have the same annoyances as you, tribema, but it's not just in the KH thread. People tend to repeat themselves when they feel negatively in several places.

But I do want people like abbystella, who follows the rules, to feel like they can be negative without being smacked down. I also want people to feel they can post negatively in the Kate Walsh thread without people attacking them. We need less cliquish behavior in the actor threads in general, I think. It's not a competition between actors, and I don't get that mentality at all.

I do appreciate these concerns, though, and in short: I'm on it!

[TWoP Mars]

Some recent activity in the Spinoff Spoilers thread has me concerned:

First of all, if you haven't read the FAQ, please do. (This isn't a request; it's required reading if you want to post here.)

As a reminder: We do not allow illegal downloading, discussion of illegal downloading, or links to entire episodes (unless they are posted by the copyright owner, in this case ABC). So, please don't post links to the unaired episodes (or even aired episodes, unless they're at ABC.com or other legal sources). And if someone else does, don't talk about how to download them, don't state that you did download them, don't even thank them for posting the illegal links. It's all out of bounds.

In the Spinoff Spoilers threads, I edited posts, handed out warnings and deleted some posts. I don't like to have to do this, and over something that is a very obvious rules violation.

Most YouTube links are OK; but links to places to illegally watch or download an entire episode are not. You can talk about having seen an episode and what you thought, obviously, in the spoiler threads. But if you watched it illegally, don't tell us that.

[TWoP Mars]

LTG made a rule long ago about all of the talk about body size and image of particular actors. That rule has not gone away. If anything, I'm about to make it stricter:

DON'T REPEAT YOURSELF

There is no need to continuously tell us how horrifyingly ugly a particular actor is. It's ridiculous, and believe me on this: It makes you look worse than it makes the actor look. If your intent is to tear an actor down, you're failing.

ADD TO THE DISCUSSION

Do NOT post in a character thread simply to say, "She's ugly" or "How does she walk with those knocked knees?" or "Her hair is a dyed mop." Adding something to the discussion does not mean chiming in every time someone posts something you don’t agree with to post about how Katherine Heigl is ugly. Come up with something new to say or a new way to say it, or don't post.

DON'T BE A BULLY

You don’t have to be nice to Katherine Heigl, but if you’re posting hostile comments every time someone says they like her, you’re making other posters feel like their opinions aren’t welcome here. They are.

If you continue to act in this trollish manner, you will be banned.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Sep 14, 2007 @ 2:13 PM.

[TWoP Mars]

Rules for the actor threads (these rules apply everywhere on these forums, but were composed with the problems of the actor threads in mind):

ALL VIEWPOINTS ARE WELCOME

Please don't attack posters who don't agree with you. This includes commenting on or even using the term "haters." It also includes pigeonholing people who don't agree with you by assuming about their tastes (for example, saying "real men" feel a certain way; or, if you feel a certain way you have "conservative taste").

DON'T REPEAT YOURSELF

If you've said it once, that's enough. Don't chime in and repeat yourself just to shoot down a dissenting opinion.

HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY

The FAQ addresses this about "Me too" posts, but this also includes "Thank you" posts. If you don't have something to add to that "Me too" or "Thank you," I will give you a warning and delete your post. I've been giving notes for this in the past, but I'm stepping it up because it still happens too frequently.

Asking for a specific video to be put on YouTube or for an article to be scanned or linked to is also a waste of space. Someone is likely to get those things up once they exist. If you don't have something else to add, don't post link/video/picture requests.

THIS IS NOT A FANSITE

Television Without Pity is not a fansite by nature. Certainly there are fans here and fans of specific characters/actors, but that doesn't change the fact that negativity directed toward characters and actors IS allowed across the board. The same for positivity. No thread will be monopolized by one opinion.

If you try to keep people from posting a dissenting opinion by any method, you will be banned.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Apr 18, 2008 @ 3:06 PM.

[TudorQueen]

I hope this doesn't sound too dumb, but is it still allowed to ask someone why they have a particular opinion or idea, if it's done respectfully? I try hard to avoid the whole 'boards-on-boards' paradox, but sometimes I really do want to know the context in which someone holds an opinion - it can be informative and useful.

[TWoP Mars]

"Why do you feel that way?" is fine. "I don't understand how anyone could feel that way." is not.

[craizydaizy3]

I checked the FAQ but didn't see it, so is there a certain number of warnings you have to get before you're banned? Or as long as we don't make the same mistake twice we're good?

[TWoP Mars]

There's not hard and fast rule on that, but you're right: If someone keeps making a mistake they've been warned and noted about, they are headed towards being banned. Certain behaviors get people banned even if they have no warnings (such as spamming/trolling). And the recent rules I set up in here say that you will get banned if you don't allow dissenting opinions -- because this behavior is trollish. But it all depends on how egregious the rule-breaking is. And posters inherently know if they're breaking a rule that is bad enough to get them banned. So ... just try to follow the rules and you'll be fine, even if you slip up now and then.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Sep 19, 2007 @ 10:36 AM.

[TWoP Mars]

Some ground rules/reminders (obviously, the FAQ and Dos and Don'ts are still required reading):

ACTOR THREADS

I have posted a couple times about how to behave in the actor threads, specifically. These rules apply everywhere. Please read them here and here if you plan to post.

STAY ON TOPIC

No need to say "Topic..." or "Back on topic..." If you're saying that because you have been off topic, you're breaking the rules and pointing out that you clearly know you were breaking them. If you're trying to get others back on topic, the best way is to report that in the FTC or to me via PM, or just get back on topic in the thread without the editorializing.

If you are here to talk about "Private Practice" or something related to the spinoff, it has its own forum, and is no longer on topic here except as it might relate to "Grey's Anatomy."

TALK ABOUT THE SHOW

Keep the conversation about the show, not about other posters. There's a rule in the FAQ that explains what this means, and further explanation here (thanks to Strega and Jacob). If you still have questions, PM me or post those here. If you think you might be breaking this rule, you're better off asking.

HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY

The FAQ has a rule about this pertaining to "Me too" posts, but it also includes posts that just say "Thank you" or "LOL" or "That was great" or "Hee." If you don't have something more than that to add, don't post. (This doesn't mean you can't say any of those things, but you should do it in the context of a more substantial post.) If you do this, I'll warn you and delete your post.

EPISODE THREAD RULES

You can talk about the episode after it's ended on the East Coast of the United States. The thread should open at the correct time, but if it opens early, that doesn't mean it's OK to post in it. And don't treat any other thread like a chat room during the episode The FAQ has a rule against this. That also means that you shouldn't type a post in Word or somewhere else while the episode's on it and post it as soon as the episode ends.

When you do post in the episode thread, you must follow the same 15/15 rule as in every other thread: "You are expected to read -- and not rehash -- the content in a thread from either the last 15 pages or the last 15 days, whichever makes the most sense."

Any questions, as always, can go here or to me via PM. Thanks.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Apr 18, 2008 @ 3:09 PM.

[StuckeyGilmore]

Can there be something about people back-editing posts? I'm only a few pages in on the episode thread and people are editing their posts to quote something that appears not even in the next post after theirs but several posts later, and it's really disrupting the flow. Also, I know there's some gray area with Private Practice, but all of the "I miss Addison" comments are getting really old considering she was on her own show just last night.

[TWoP Mars]

StuckeyGilmore, back editing is allowed, although I don't get why people do it either; no one goes back to read your post again, so people don't really see your back edits.

I miss Addison is OK for now, since it's the first episode without her, but I won't let it go on repetitively after this episode, as I have said that the talk about that show should be taken to its thread.

[MarDell]

I figured it out. Even if it is reported in a general media story, if it is about future episodes, we spoiler it? Hope I got it right. Thanks.

Edited by MarDell, Sep 30, 2007 @ 7:49 PM.