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Satellite Of Love: Relationships On BSG


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#271

hushpuppy22

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 7:30 PM

galveston Okay, ignore the backstory. Ignore the fact that both Jamie and Katee think that their characters are in love with the other. If you watch the scenes between them starting as early as the mini-series it's very clear that the actors and producers intend for Kara and Lee to have the hots for each other. Maybe you don't buy it because you can't get past the thought that Kara killed Zak. And I understand 'cause I've watched shows where the leads were supposed to be in love/lust and I hated the 'ship for one reason or another(Veronica/Duncan, Buffy/Riley etc...) and didn't buy into the dynamic. I'm still curious how much is the Zak thing and how much is the Lee not being a "hero" hero. 'Cause you have used terms like "weak" and "doormat" more than a couple of times, which makes me curious. Assuming you're right and Kara couldn't give a flying frak for Lee romantically, why is it unattractive for Lee to "pine" for her? Some would say it's just human and makes him more interesting as a character.

Here’s a question: How would Lee/Dee shippers feel if Lee was insecure and bitchy with Dee like he is with Kara and his Dad? From what we know of Lee and Dee, he has much more power and prestige than she has. In that relationship Lee is dominant—very unlike the Lee/Kara relationship where they are equals and he fears, sometimes, that she is dominant. Would the LeeDee ship be attractive if the power dynamic was totally different?
[ETA: I really got behind on the thread when I answered the phone, so this stuff may have been addressed and I didn't know... Sorry!]

Edited by hushpuppy22, Dec 30, 2005 @ 7:34 PM.


#272

shimi

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 7:39 PM

It's too early in the series for me to take the idea of Lee/Kara seriously. Not just because of Zack, which is a huge, untapped issue, but because I want to enjoy this show's twist on the Starbuck/Apollo friendship without romance getting in the way.

Of the two of them, I do see Lee as the one more likely to be involved in a long-term relationship, but right now they are both so damaged that I wouldn't wish them on anybody. Having said that, I think Lee and Dualla are adorable together, but I also like her with Billy AND am not interested in triangulations of any sort. Helo/CapBoomer/Tyrol is quite enough for me.

I don't see why relationships have to be either long-term/boring or hatesex!/explosions on a series, though. Matter-of-fact relationships that start and then end without much rancor would be nice. As for the trope that a "long-term" relationship holds no dramatic potential, I call bullshit on that soapy cliche. I'm thinking about O'Brien/Keiko on DS9 for this one. This was a marriage that was occasionally unhappy, fairly stable and actually had some plot twists attached that mostly didn't have to do with an intruder in the relationship. If they're going to be stranded in space for a bit, I'd like to see some relationships that aren't modelled after the Tighs.

And I know Adama/Towel may frighten some people but it would do the man some good to get it on.

#273

galveston

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 7:48 PM

galveston Okay, ignore the backstory. Ignore the fact that both Jamie and Katee think that their characters are in love with the other. If you watch the scenes between them starting as early as the mini-series it's very clear that the actors and producers intend for Kara and Lee to have the hots for each other


Yes, TPTB did intend that at first. That's obvious, (even I thought they were cute in the mini series) but the characters have changed. Producers and writers are allowed to change their minds. Anders, boring though he is, changed everything. I just read another article quoting Katee saying that Anders was "everything she [Starbuck] ever wanted in a man." I don't feel it from Katee's character for Lee ever since her return to Galactica this season. Everything's different. It's as if the actress changed her mind. I don't feel the same vibes from her character towards Lee's character on screen. It's all my perspective, but the vibe seems so palpably different between Lee and Kara. It's friendship now, where it was longing before. They're good as friends. They're real good as friends. Also, knowing that Anders is returning at Katee's request makes it seem as if they're going in another direction. I don't begrudge that others don't feel the same way, but Lee and Kara don't seem destined anymore. Not to me. Just because the producers had that in mind at the beginning doesn't mean things can't change. Why can't a man and a woman have a deeply caring friendship without sex getting in the way? Now that would be a novelty.

#274

hushpuppy22

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:06 PM

I don't feel the same vibes from her character towards Lee's character on screen.

True. They've been flirty though (Home Pt. 1, Final Cut, Flight of the Phoenix). They just haven’t argued much.

Anders, boring though he is, changed everything. I just read another article quoting Katee saying that Anders was "everything she [Starbuck] ever wanted in a man."

It does seem to contradict the Lee/Kara love, but in another more recent article she said that Kara loves Lee but there may be too much baggage in the way... Ultimately she's right about Anders. He's kinda better for her than Lee in some ways 'cause he doesn't take things as seriously and isn't cruel. But he’s not around for long. And maybe it will be interesting to see what Kara does to a relationship that actually has some chance of working out. How fast will that fall apart?

I'd like to see some relationships that aren't modelled after the Tighs.

Everyone keeps saying that they want stable relationships. In a world where everyone is worried for their lives every day, how stable and normal can any relatiohship be on Galactica? Besides, we already have Helo/Boomer, Gaius/Six and Tigh/Still.

#275

shimi

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:11 PM

Well, I did say some. Stable is of course, relative and not neccessarily normal. I just don't think that in a series that is intended to run for bit, even if it is set in a war situation, that all relationships have to be of the "bang off the feeling" variety or " I Just Frakked a Cylon!"

It's more likely that a second-string character will be allowed that luxury, thus freeing the leads up for the above sorts of 'ships. It would just be a nice contrast.

#276

CaptTightpants

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:16 PM

I'm not saying Lee seems weak if he loses control over anything. I didn't find him weak when he was hysterical over his father being shot.


Of course not, but I was referring to more of the snipey pissy stuff Lee does with his dad.

How can you pine for someone who obviously isn't that into you when push comes to shove?...If Kara wanted Lee, she'd have seduced him during the Colonial Day celebration. Kara doesn't want Lee, not really.


Well, in general, I would say that having a character pine for someone who doesn't love them is a classic literary tool. However, the way I saw it Kara was very into lee, and slept with Baltar cos she was scared and confused by that.

If everytime someone wanted another person they just went and told them, well, let's just say that Shakespeare wouldn't have had a whole lot to write about;). I think that saying Kara doesn't really want Lee because the didn't outright seduce him feels like a stretch to me. That would be a pretty literal plot and this isn't a literal show.

Her personality will always overwhelm his. This chemistry, I don't see it. I've never seen it. Zack Adama will always come between them, as well he should. Lee seems strong most of the time, save that when he's making puppy dog eyes at Kara.


I'm not arguing chemistry, cos it's in the eye of the beholder. I'm not even arguing Lee/Kara versus Lee/Dee here. I honestly don't even know whether Lee/Kara are meant to be together in the end.

What I don't really get is this idea that Lee would be a different character if Kara wasn't around or if he wasn't attracted to her. Lee is Lee, who he is doesn't change becuase of his romantic partner or situation. If he's the type of guy to throw a fit of jealousy, then that's part of who he is.

As far as Kara overwhelming Lee, I just don't see how this isn't a slam on Lee or Bamber, saying that he can't stand on his own against another actor or character. I think Bamber is pretty talented and can handle acting against Sackhoff quite well, and Lee interacting with Kara, romantically or otherwise, is very fun and interesting to watch, IMO.

Edited by CaptTightpants, Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:43 PM.


#277

hushpuppy22

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:53 PM

The way I saw it Kara was very into lee, and slept with Baltar cos she was scared and confused by that.

Plus, (and this may be the most controversial thing I've ever written) Baltar can be very charming when he's not freaking out. He can beat her at cards too and that had to be a turn-on for Kara (remember the Pyramid game with Anders). We know that Kara really wanted to be with Lee (evidenced by calling out Lee's name while having sex with Baltar) but left with Baltar instead.

We could speculate all night about why she didn't sleep with Lee but ultimately we will never all agree on an answer. Personally, I blame it on Lee ;-)

#278

CaptTightpants

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:57 PM

I think they both just plain chickened out;).

#279

hogg

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:58 PM

Word on just about everything you said , Shimi

I want to enjoy this show's twist on the Starbuck/Apollo friendship without romance getting in the way.


I am still somewhat disapointed that the TPTB did not simply write a great male/female friendship . Actually ,that is the vibe i was getting during most of season 1. I was almost getting a Faith/Bosco vibe out of those two ( fans of Third Watch will know what i mean ) , but not quite because ... Faith and Bosco . 55 David . Best . Non-Romantic Pairing . Ever.

But still ... Faith was the cool , level headed ( a la Apollo ) while Bosco was the hot headed , unpredictable one ( almost a la Starbuck ). However ,they were the best of partners and they had some nice silly banter , because they were so incredibly different . To me , it was proof that male/female characters could be written as partners and not be romantically involved . And they were so much fun to watch.

Starbuck and Apollo had great potential as far as friendship goes. And a part of me still wishes they were written that way. I know i would definitely enjoy watching them much more. As a romantic pairing ? Meh . They relate to each other in a weird immature -you broke my toy, i"ll pull your pig tails- kind of way that i don't always get.

#280

hushpuppy22

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 8:58 PM

CaptTightpants, I agree :-)


ETA: I think I have to add a salient point here and not just agree in order to comply with twop bylaws...
It's apparent that neither of them is ready to change their friendship even though they have feelings. After all, every time she makes a move and gives him the opportunity to say something like "I would care if you died a firery death" or "Yes, I did say I love you and I meant it" Lee backs down. And every time he wants to help her out she shoves it back in his face. They're totally frakked up.

Edited by hushpuppy22, Dec 30, 2005 @ 9:13 PM.


#281

shimi

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 9:02 PM

Well if the show goes for several years I could buy that their feelings change at some point. (If written well! No sudden romance a la Chakotay/Seven. Grr...) Now is just too early to frak with that dynamic, IMO. Because it definitely has that kiddish vibe to it that's fun to play with but not to romance with.

I see that there are no takers for Adama/Towel. Heh.

#282

hushpuppy22

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 9:14 PM

I see that there are no takers for Adama/Towel. Heh.

It's just that Towel (should I call him Towlie?) is a whore. Adama deserves better.

#283

CaptTightpants

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 9:30 PM

CaptTightpants, I agree :-)


ETA: I think I have to add a salient point here and not just agree in order to comply with twop bylaws...
It's apparent that neither of them is ready to change their friendship even though they have feelings. After all, every time she makes a move and gives him the opportunity to say something like "I would care if you died a firery death" or "Yes, I did say I love you and I meant it" Lee backs down. And every time he wants to help her out she shoves it back in his face. They're totally frakked up.


I agree. It's fun and interesting to watch them, but it's also totally screwed up and they may never get together in the end.

If the writers write something well that hooks lee and Kara up convincingly with other characters and it's not boring, i will probably buy it, I'm not so much about fighting the show.

Right now I have some reservations about Lee/Dee, and as mentioned before, Roslin/Adama (the power thing). But I would also be pretty unhappy if they had L/K get married and have babies right now too. I don't want Starbuck made into the nice girfriend or happy housewife or Lee in the happy hubby/daddy role. Please no skipping through meadows or baking cookies or making cute babies on my dark, gritty, scifi show!:)

Honestly I'd prefer to keep ships to a minimum. What I have enjoyed about L/K so far is that their moments fit really smoothy within the larger conflicts of the show. There have been a few overtly romantic moments, but they have been almost slipped into the scene (like the CD dance and the H2 kissyness). And even if there are some romatic overtones, the scenes where they relate are about their relationship in a bigger way than sex. The fact that they are friends and fellow pilots is really fundamental to how they interact, it's not just about dating.

The only two scenes that have felt klunky to me are the mat scene and the pyramid scene. They were both there as purely romantic scenes, and I found that really jarring within the larger context. I don;t mind some romance worked in, or alluded to, but I don't want time dedicated specifically to it unless there is some particular goal of developing or showing something about a major character. I.e., if Dee brings Lee to some awful place or shows us something interesting about him, then groovy. But just to show us him in a happy relationship for four seasons, nah.

I tend more to take exception to the idea that Kara makes Lee a doormat or that she overwhelms him. It may not be the intention of people who bring this up, but it just sounds too much like the old ideas that a woman should play down her own strengths or personality and make the man feel stronger and more important, yada yada yada;). And the 50's are over. Thank God.:)

Edited by CaptTightpants, Dec 30, 2005 @ 9:55 PM.


#284

hushpuppy22

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 10:41 PM

I moved some discussion to the gender thread...

Honestly I'd prefer to keep ships to a minimum. CaptTightpants

Probably the smart thing to do, but I readily admit be being really drawn to the Kara/Lee ship. Probably because it’s so very painful and repressed. There is a really funny de-motivational poster of a rose and the title is "Destiny" The caption under the rose is: “You were meant for me. Perhaps as a Punishment.” That’s Kara/Lee to me ;-)

What I have enjoyed about L/K so far is that their moments fit really smoothy within the larger conflicts of the show.

Because the show is so character-driven the Kara/Lee frak-ups always further the plot and enable the bigger conflicts to occur. In KLS1, Kara’s embarrassment at having called out Lee’s name was tangible. That moment of vulnerability and shame propelled her reticence in the hanger bay thus further exacerbating the Lee jealousy freak-out, which contributed to her decision to fly off to Caprica. It’s perfection!

#285

SmokingCatamite

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 10:50 PM

You know what I don't like about Lee/Dee? It's badly set up. Or rather, its just so convienant.... it's irritating.

Now, I'm not pissy about either character. Dee just doesn't seem dumb enough to suddenly find the old man's son incredibly irresistable, and likewise with Lee. We do know that officer/enlisted relationships are frowned upon, so Lee dating a petty officer is not likely to be winked at.

But really, why would Dee be attracted to Lee? Sure, he's very pretty, but aside from Dee's willingness to commit mutiny, they don't have anything in common. it amounts to "look, two hot people eyeballing each other". Don't get me wrong, thats more than enough for a fling but a real relationship? I dunno.

#286

romance writer

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Posted Dec 30, 2005 @ 11:07 PM

But can we expect any kind of real relationships, considering the tension everyone's been under? Their home worlds were nuked, they're on the run from Cylons and Humlons, Adama was shot, the fleet divided when the prez. went to Kobol, and now the Galactica and Pegasus are trying to take each other out.

There's no room to develop a real relationship. There's no time for dating, or whatever courtship rituals they held--every day is a fight to stay alive. The characters will either just shag, having sex without any intimacy, or they'll hook up with someone who can make them forget their troubles, if only for a night. No one has the time or the luxury to get to know another person too deeply, and with the months of stress adding up, any relationship will be strained in some way.

That said, I do want to see some hookups, if just to see how the characters deal with the realization that life on a spaceship running from Cylons is now their norm.

#287

genwolf

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 12:59 AM

CaptTightPants : Word on the Faith Bosco pairing in Thirdwatch - and just to make it relevant here I think Starbuck is fascinating for many of the same reasons that Sgt Cruz is - for all their impetuousness when the chips are down you want them on your side. The other similarity is that both have this powerful Charisma that they themselves seem somewhat unaware of (and it's much more about Charisma than sex appeal). A lot of the show is about the crushing weight of destiny and circumstance and the characters resitance to those forces, none more so than in the case of Starbuck. I think any ships in starbucks future will only be attempts on her part to avoid her destiny, and they will fail.

As Dee Lee goes, they have more in common than just the sexual attraction ( and as far as that goes I don't think it has really been commented upon - the extent to which when Dee sees something she likes she goes for it), Dee seems much more political than Starbuck, and she has been responsible for some pretty crucial interventions in season 2 , facilitating the flight of the fugitives and persuading Adama to re-unite the fleet. Whilst she is political she strikes me as being a conservative - her disaproval of Zarek in Bastille Day, her attitude to the initial mutiny- whilst Lee is a bit of a repressed liberal idealist. A closer involvement between the 2 could be interesting because of these divergences, and the fact that despite Lee technically outranking Dee, Dee seems able to command favours and get things done almost everywhere on the ship. If there were a rebellion within the fleet Lee would be inclined to sympathise if their were even a part way legitimate greivance behind it, where as Dee would be inclined to side with the forces of order and insist that the greivance is legitiamate only whilst expressed in the proper channels. If they were involved the differences between their outlook and the fact that they would be in postions that bear directly on the course of such a rebellion I could imagine plenty of room for conflict.

#288

CaptTightpants

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 2:18 AM

Aw, genwolf, that wasn't me, but thanks anyway:).

Hey, this is actually one of the best arguments I have seen for putting Lee and Dee together! I actually suspect that Kara and Lee have very different politcs, when Kara has any politics at all, that is (I think she very much distrusts politicians and politics). Doesn't mean I want to see them together, but at least Lee and Dee both having an interest in the politics of the fleet would remove a teensy bit of the randomness of them and might even fit into the story if there is some sort of political crisis in the fleet.

But can we expect any kind of real relationships, considering the tension everyone's been under? Their home worlds were nuked, they're on the run from Cylons and Humlons, Adama was shot, the fleet divided when the prez. went to Kobol, and now the Galactica and Pegasus are trying to take each other out.

There's no room to develop a real relationship. There's no time for dating, or whatever courtship rituals they held--every day is a fight to stay alive. The characters will either just shag, having sex without any intimacy, or they'll hook up with someone who can make them forget their troubles, if only for a night. No one has the time or the luxury to get to know another person too deeply, and with the months of stress adding up, any relationship will be strained in some way.

That said, I do want to see some hookups, if just to see how the characters deal with the realization that life on a spaceship running from Cylons is now their norm.


I can get behind this. I would think that lots of these people would be shagging like bunnies. Or making super intense relationships that burn hot and then fizzle out (which is what I think Kara did and would have done with Anders given enough time). I think this would be really normal under such circumstances. This is kinda what I am leaning towards with Lee/Dee and Kara/Anders.

...I readily admit be being really drawn to the Kara/Lee ship. Probably because it’s so very painful and repressed. There is a really funny de-motivational poster of a rose and the title is "Destiny" The caption under the rose is: “You were meant for me. Perhaps as a Punishment.” That’s Kara/Lee to me ;-)


Well, I admit that I love the chemstry and even admit to occasionally reading me a little Lee/Kara fanfic now and then... But as far as them together on the show, I would only want it if it really made sense within the show.:)

Because the show is so character-driven the Kara/Lee frak-ups always further the plot and enable the bigger conflicts to occur. In KLS1, Kara’s embarrassment at having called out Lee’s name was tangible. That moment of vulnerability and shame propelled her reticence in the hanger bay thus further exacerbating the Lee jealousy freak-out, which contributed to her decision to fly off to Caprica. It’s perfection!


Exactly! And if they can do that with Dee or Anders, make it somehow fit the plot and move it forward, then I can live with it, even if I am unable to help whining about it a little;).

Edited by CaptTightpants, Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:58 AM.


#289

genwolf

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 3:00 AM

Sorry CaptTightPants, that should have been Hogg I credited for the Third Watch observation ( a greatly underated show IMHO).

I would think that lots of these people would be shagging like bunnies. Or making super intense relationships that burn hot and then fizzle out (which is what I think Kara did and would have done with Anders given enough time).



I totally agree with this , the manner and swiftness of the initial Dee Billy hookup partly foccusses on the fact that intense relationships develop under stress, but there should probably be more of this. Anyone who has read Anthony Beevor's books on Stalingrad and Berlin in WW2 would remember the attention paid to the intense psychological atmosphere that developed in both battles, at Stalingrad the trapped German army started to become intensely religious towards the end , with an unhealthy maudlin element, and the efforts made to celebrate the last Christmas were almost superhuman. In Berlin as the Red Army approached there was a complete breakdown of sexual mores, and their are numerous accounts where young men and women would couple wildly in air raid shelters en masse and in full view of the other occupants. The pressures on the survivors of the Cylon attack would be in a similar psychological pressure cooker, and whilst a deal has been made about their religious reaction to the circumstances, the sexaulised hunger for intimacy in the face of the storm has really not been covered nearly as much.

#290

hogg

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 1:46 PM

genwolf, i'm glad someone else sees that Faith/Bosco-ish dynamic in Starbuck/Apollo .

The male/female friendship is hardly ever written in fiction , and that is too bad , because the concept has enormous potential . I feel slightly cheated actually because dragged on forever UST is totally not what i wanted to see between those two . But i have never been a fan of UST as a writing device , anyway.
It is almost never resolved in a way that i feel is satisfying . Because the writers are afraid of losing that *edge*, they try to never really put the two protagonists together . But they also try to keep hinting as something , which gets very annoying also. Until , like , the second to last episode , where the tension is resolved , the characters are suddenly sort of a couple . Then, a lot of people go : meh. I . Just . Don't . Care . Anymore. Because over the course of a serie , i feel that you sort of get over that . That initial *excitment*. It gets lost because so many other things are bound to happen in the meantime.

BTW , Third Watch ? Very underated indeed.

#291

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 3:03 PM

I don't get a Bosco/Faith vibe from Starbuck and Apollo. Starpollo are obviously interested in each other, and they have been from the start. I like them together. I don't want it to be the focus of the whole show or anything.

I have to say that I am not in favor Adama/Roslin. The only reason for those two to get together is because they are both old. Let's not put together the only old people on the show. I kind of don't want to see Adama with anyone.

#292

shimi

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 3:58 PM

Hey, nothing wrong with "older". I think everyone on Galactica should get some. And often.

Disclaimer: Not a specific 'shipper of these two, because of the authority issues, but they do vibe quite well together.

#293

CaptTightpants

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 4:17 PM

I don't get a Bosco/Faith vibe from Starbuck and Apollo. Starpollo are obviously interested in each other, and they have been from the start. I like them together. I don't want it to be the focus of the whole show or anything.


I like them too, as long as it continues to fit into the context of the show. So far the conflicts and feeling between the two has served to increase the tension of the narrative. Like I said before, all of their romantic stuff is a part of something larger.

I really agree that it would be great to see a well done platonic buddy thing (never saw Thrid Watch). I think the damage is done in this case though, for better or for worse;). The writers have definitley gone to some effort to build sexual tension between these two, (even if you don't feel it as a viewer, their lines and actions have indicated that they do) so it seems like it would be hard to erase that and go back to an entirely non-ssexual intereaction.

The writers could decide to move away from the UST, but even if they did (and they seem to relaly like it, so I would be surpised) there would always be that residual "we almost hooked up" and "what if" thing. Which I suppose could be interesting as well.

I have to say that I am not in favor Adama/Roslin. The only reason for those two to get together is because they are both old. Let's not put together the only old people on the show. I kind of don't want to see Adama with anyone.


I'm not sure how I feel about them together. I gotta admit though, I would love to see Roslin take up with some hot young marine or civilian. She's quite beautiful, and I think it would be fun to see the whole "distinguished older man dates nubile young woman" thing turned on it's head;).

Edited by CaptTightpants, Dec 31, 2005 @ 4:27 PM.


#294

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 4:29 PM

I would love to see Roslin take up with some hot young marine or civilian. She's quite beautiful, and I think it would be fun to see the whole "distinguished older man dates nubile young woman" thing turned on it's head;).

This? I could totally get behind. Roslin is like Lee in that she's so controlled, it's inhuman. Actually, I think she's lost emotional control fewer times than Lee and she's dying.

#295

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 4:49 PM

Why can't a man and a woman have a deeply caring friendship without sex getting in the way? Now that would be a novelty.


I was hoping at first that Starbuck and Apollo would be this great platonic pairing but that isn't what the writers are going for. I do think Roslin and Adama are the great platonic partnership and I'd like to see it stay that way. I just don't see a Roslin/Adama romance happening because of their positions and the fact that Roslin's got too much on her mind. I don't ship Lee/Kara and have hopes the relationship evolves into a friendship like the one between John and Chiana on Farscape. It wasn't a romance, but it wasn't platonic either. They were close friends who had this attraction between them that they never were going to do anything about because I guess they knew a romance wouldn't work between them. John was inlove with Aeryn, and Chiana loved D'Argo. And yet there was always something in the air between John and Chiana. I always thought the John/Chiana dynamic was interesting. Sexual tension doesn't necessarily lead to romance.

I'm hoping that Kara and Lee won't turn into this "will they or won't they" type pairing. Like Hogg said it's interesting at first but then it gets annoying like Ross and Rachel on friends. In the end I didn't care anymore if they got together or not. I'd hate Kara and Lee to turn into that. Maybe Kara and Lee or Lee and Dee could turn into the stable but not boring pairing. Like Dr. Mike and Sully on Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman. The writers on that show took a risk by not dragging out the UST. The leads got together pretty early in the series run, and it didn't get boring for me. Letting a pairing get together does not have to make things boring. And unnecessarily prolonging a pairing getting together can be plenty boring.

I get that there is this assumption that Lee/Dee would be boring, but I don't see that. I agree with Genwolf's argument for this pairing.

#296

genwolf

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 4:55 PM

As far as the UST of Starpollo goes I thought the locker room scene in S2 E6 (Home P1) when Starbuck plays with Lee's proffession of love was all about the both of them re-establishing their relationship as that of Psuedo-siblings, and best freinds, and since that episode that is what they were for the rest of season 2A unless I missed something?

I don't really want to see Roslyn take up with a toy boy any more than I want Adama to take up with some young muffin, the power difference in any such realtionship would be just too great, and it would be so out of character for either of them to completely forget their position and responsibilities like that. The fact is that their positions are such that at the end of the day the only people they really can confide in are each other, and the realtionship already is tinged with a certain romance.

#297

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Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:29 PM

I don't ship Lee/Kara and have hopes the relationship evolves into a friendship like the one between John and Chiana on Farscape. It wasn't a romance, but it wasn't platonic either. They were close friends who had this attraction between them that they never were going to do anything about because I guess they knew a romance wouldn't work between them. John was inlove with Aeryn, and Chiana loved D'Argo. And yet there was always something in the air between John and Chiana. I always thought the John/Chiana dynamic was interesting. Sexual tension doesn't necessarily lead to romance.


I agree that the Chiana/John thing was pretty nice. You always got that feeling that they wouldn't mind a good shag, but they also were friends. There was no "great romantic love" there.

The only catch in the reasoning is that Farscape still put together the romatic leads. If you were to compare roles on the two shows, you would definitely see a correlation between John and Lee. However, I would have to say that Kara is not Chiana, but is actually Aeryn, if you are comparing roles within the story:).

For some reason I see Chaina as Kat. No idea why. Must be the mooning the camera thing...

As far as the UST of Starpollo goes I thought the locker room scene in S2 E6 (Home P1) when Starbuck plays with Lee's proffession of love was all about the both of them re-establishing their relationship as that of Psuedo-siblings, and best freinds, and since that episode that is what they were for the rest of season 2A unless I missed something?


You didn't miss anything, it's certainly one reading of these scene, but I don't know that everybody read it that way:). For me personally, on a purely emotional level, it was about them loving each other irregardless of whether they were romantically together, not in exclusion of it. Also, I think for Kara to let down any sexual defenses with Lee, she would probably need some sort of reasurrance beyong just "I would like to make out with you now" from lee. The fact that lee was saying he loved her outside of a sexual situation was really important to Kara, but doesn't mean that a sexual situation is out of the question. Her playing with his confession was, to me, a way of owning and keeping that deeper love. Sigh..:)

I don't really want to see Roslyn take up with a toy boy any more than I want Adama to take up with some young muffin, the power difference in any such realtionship would be just too great, and it would be so out of character for either of them to completely forget their position and responsibilities like that. The fact is that their positions are such that at the end of the day the only people they really can confide in are each other, and the realtionship already is tinged with a certain romance.


Well, i was thinking more shag than relationship;).

Edited by CaptTightpants, Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:30 PM.


#298

SmokingCatamite

SmokingCatamite

Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:30 PM

Oddly, I find the idea of older Adama shacking up with Dualla sorta intriguing.

#299

CaptTightpants

CaptTightpants

    Fanatic

Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:33 PM

She does seem to be able to hold her own with him, heh. Visually it would be an interesting contrast.

This is shallow and has nothing to do with anything (it's certainly not a valid arguments for or against ships) but I find lee/Dee together almost too shiny. They look like an advert for a Calvin Klien perfume or something. Can't relate;).

Edited by CaptTightpants, Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:34 PM.


#300

bluedevilblue

bluedevilblue

    Stalker

Posted Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:35 PM

I should be clear that by younger for Roslin, I didn't mean a boy toy. Rather, I think it would be interesting to see her attracted to a civilian who is younger than her, but no kid, and then have a circumstance arise where she surprises herself and acts on it. She thinks she's dying and her only remaining purpose in life is to lead the fleet to earth, so to see her suddenly reminded that she's alive could have a lot of interesting consequences. Mary McDonnell has said she thought sex was the most dangerous thing for Roslin and so that makes me want them to explore that. By making it a recurring character rather than a regular, it's less likely to overwhelm or weaken her, IMO. I also prefer civilian to military because she doesn't have any direct authority over civilians (although the shallow part of me would love for her to have a quick shag with a strapping marine ;-) ). And I prefer younger because I'm sick of always having the woman in the younger role.

In some ways, I'd like to see Adama/Roslin develop to where they know that they love each other and under different circumstances they'd be together, but that's not going to happen and they kind of both sadly except it. My only concern with that is that then they never pair Roslin with anyone. I care less about seeing Adama paired up because as charismatic as he is, he seems almost asexual to me, although I'm sure if given the writer scenes, I could change my mind.

I'm a big believer that you can't tell what pairings will work or won't work until you see the execution. There have been couplings that I thought would never work, that I get drawn into because of the writing and acting and other couplings I'm dying to see that fall flat. So I don't care who they pair Lee or Kara or anyone else with so long as when they do it, they do it well.

Edited by bluedevilblue, Dec 31, 2005 @ 5:38 PM.