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NBC's West Wing Poll: Any Opinions?


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#31

OldEllen

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Posted Sep 5, 2005 @ 11:43 AM

Oh, that's too bad. I was going to take it again this afternoon. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

And for the record, if anyone cares, I put Jed, Leo, and C.J. as my favorite characters. I also answered negatively to all the religion questions because I'm an atheist, and I think I still have rights, too.

#32

Edwin F. Sneller

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Posted Sep 5, 2005 @ 12:32 PM

Argh. Wrong topic.

Edited by Edwin F. Sneller, Sep 5, 2005 @ 12:33 PM.


#33

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Posted Sep 5, 2005 @ 1:51 PM

I enjoyed "strong[ly] disagree[ing]" with all the questions that asked about whether I watch the show for politics. They just don't get it over at NBC, do they? To paraphrase: It's the people, stupid. These same characters would be compelling in a medical drama, a cop drama, or even a *gasp* show set behind-the-scenes at a nightly sports show.

I tried to give thoughtful answers to the questions about why I rated certain characters high and others low, and it all comes back to the idea that the characters are portrayed as flawed human beings, not one-dimensional stereotypes.



This is what I did, too. This, in my humble opinion, is the core of what's gone wrong with the show over the past couple of years. WW (and SN too) were different because it truly didn't matter what the setting was--the setting added interest, for sure, but the shows were about the people, first and foremost. It's not a 'political drama'...it's a 'human drama set in politics'. But I suppose someone who's used to working with a 'medical drama' has a hard time with that distinction. As are the networks in general.


Religion was always a personal and introspective thing in the first four seasons and these questions... ugh... I don't know, they just kinda give me chills. The bad kind.


Yup. I agree--Sorkin handled religion carefully and honestly---I just feel that, considering the way these questions were presented, and considering the heavy-handedness that's been rampant in the last two seasons, any storylines having to do with religion are going to be of the 'let's beat them over the head with it' variety. I get enough of that in RL, thankyewverymuch.

And if they're using the questions for marketing purposes, as opposed to storyline purposes, well....can I run screaming from the room now?


I had no problem with the "religion" questions because it is important to make sure that TPTB know that there  ARE  deeply religious and spiritual people who are  NOT  the stereotypical 'red-staters".


Great intentions there...but I just don't think that, with the way the questions were set up, one could make that very clear at all.

#34

Uppy

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Posted Sep 5, 2005 @ 3:12 PM

I just took the survey using the link with numbers after the htm?. It was still up and responses appeared to go through.

When I used this link? I got the Survery Expired response.

That's interesting. Makes me wonder if results on the top link are reported????

Now I must note that I am not sure this thread is a really good idea. If NBC's goal was to reach hard core fans they succeeded. If NBC had some particular purpose for the survey or a particular sampling method in mind when designing this survey we have certainly blown it out of the water and documented why the information garnered is not statistically reliable. I guess I will have to keep the faith that someone actually will care that we cared enough to want to respond.

ETA: At 2:20 p.m. MST (4:20 ET) the link still worked from both of my computers. Now this is really bizarre. It is now 10:27 p.m. and the survey still works for me. As I did not want to take the survey again, I entered that I was 65 yrs and sure enough I got a thank you but no thanks screen. Maybe they have not gotten enough responses from my part of the country (Colorado).

ETA: My time zone clearly got an extra day or someone figured out their mistake. The survey is now expired in my time zone.

Edited by Uppy, Sep 6, 2005 @ 11:53 AM.


#35

RedLady

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Posted Sep 5, 2005 @ 3:16 PM

I got "SURVEY EXPIRED" on both links.

#36

OldEllen

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Posted Sep 5, 2005 @ 3:23 PM

Me, too. Maybe it depends on what time zone you're in.

Edited by OldEllen, Sep 5, 2005 @ 3:24 PM.


#37

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 1:55 AM

I said "Wells" in a less than flattering manner about 4 times, and I even invoked the helicopter once. CJ-Bartlet-Toby-Josh great, Will annoying, Kate dull, Russell a 1-D plot device, everything's too dark and everyone is mumbling.

My favorite characters were CJ, Toby and Bartlet, because part of the poll was obviously fishing to see if viewers will leave in droves once the administration changes. If so, they will delay the inauguration till the end of the season, I bet.

Also, I bet they went in depth about Toby so that they could collect data on what the audience liked about him, and then create a copycat character using all the commonly mentioned traits. Which is how they think. Which is sad.

Now I must note that I am not sure this thread is a really good idea. If NBC's goal was to reach hard core fans they succeeded. If NBC had some particular purpose for the survey or a particular sampling method in mind when designing this survey we have certainly blown it out of the water and documented why the information garnered is not statistically reliable.

I was thinking the exact same thing. They obviously have interns or whatnot scoping these places out, hopefully they won't read too much into these posts/threads and ignore any good advice (namely mine).

Edited by TheJackal, Sep 6, 2005 @ 1:58 AM.


#38

phi blythe

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 3:00 AM

I must note that I am not sure this thread is a really good idea

Me too. I'm sure the results will speak for themselves but NBC would now also know without having to think, that the poll is wildly contaminated. I think it's disgusting that they didn't want opinions for people 'too young' or 'too old' (and stupid of them, too) but when they see a whole bunch of '18-24' year old responses saying for example, how dreamy Martin Sheen is, they're going to know something's up. This among many other things.

I'm now not so sure that everyone being able to take this survey (and some, multiple times) was as much of a good idea as it was detrimental. While the survey discriminates against people too old or young, the responses of those people under different age groups etc., ultimately makes the reponses of people really that age, irrelevant - they're likely to either dismiss the poll, or worse - blame it.

Someone should make their own poll (where people can reply accurately and honeslty,) and deliver it to NBC. Heh. And include a question that asks whether NBC was a stupid little snot in not asking for the opinions of -18s and +60s. I'll give them something to read on that. Actually, wait. If someone DOES have the time or energy or knowledge of how to do that, please do! I'd love to see and read the results.

ETA: I found somebody whose daughter worked as a pollster and is going to set up a survey somewhat resembling the NBC one for anyone to take if they are interested (or have the time - again.) It'll be up in a couple of hours and run for a week. The results will be open to everyone to view at the end.

Edited by phi blythe, Sep 6, 2005 @ 4:26 AM.


#39

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 4:56 AM

" Wow, that's great! Can't wait to take it!

#40

fishytv

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 1:26 PM

the poll is wildly contaminated.


When I started it, I tried to use a snarky title, "its scientific" because there is no chance it is scientific.

It is not clear to me that it ever was intended to have one URL, at the end, they asked for other emails for other people to take the survey. If I was designing it, I'd have used a one-time URL. Still, you have to do random samples (shout out to Joey) to have any real meaning. Self selecting 'web polls are pretty useless.

Fun, still.

#41

Carroll

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 1:55 PM

I don't know anything more about surveys than what Joey Lucas told me <g>, but I assume its scientific value was skewed just because the survey was designed to be answer online. Surely there must be West Wing viewers who don't answer online surveys??

#42

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 2:15 PM

Requiring people to have web-access clearly skews the results. Just as it would be skewed to have only confirmed wingnuts answer. To be able to make sound comments on the whole universe (which is probably TV watchers in the US) you have to make random selection of people from that universe. Which is why Joey makes thousands of phone calls. Even that is biased against people without phones, or people who have only cell phones, or Vonnage, etc.

Even following the NBC plan, which was to have survey takers make refferals to others to take it is hardly random selection.

I'd love to see the numbers that they got, no matter how flawed, and of course, I'd love to learn what kinds of real information they'd get with such a non-scientific survey.

#43

phi blythe

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 2:38 PM

The link to the poll has been removed for a couple of hours to undergo construction. Apparently they received 250+ surveys in the last couple of hours and need to re-structure the settings so that more than one intern / operator can process results and assessments at the same time.

Edited by phi blythe, Sep 6, 2005 @ 7:30 PM.


#44

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 3:22 PM

Just as it would be skewed to have only confirmed wingnuts answer.


The poll takes so long (as long as you say you're in the right age group), only confirmed wingnuts are going to complete it. They have to know it's not scientific. I wonder if it's purpose is just to generate interest/keep people interested.

#45

phi blythe

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 9:39 PM

The poll I mentioned before has now been constructed. If you would like to take it, please send an email to: unofficialwwsurvey@yahoo.com

You will receive a link to the survey and a code to enter. Open the link; add the individual code and you can begin the survey.

Please Note: Each person will receive a different link and/or code. Surveys without a code / with the same code will not be processed. The only way you will be able to take the survey multiple times is if you request it from different emails, different I.P addresses etc. If you care enough to go through all that, you deserve to have your opinion counted twice!

The survey was created by interns who work for Carly Himmel and her company of the same name. Thank you to her for 'loaning' them to us, and to the interns for all their time.

This is not an official survey, and no party profits from the results. At the end of the surveying period, all responses will be voluntarily analysed by an experienced ex-pollster who will then draft an extensive, in-depth report of the results. This will be available to anyone who completes the survey and requests the results.

The survey obviously won’t be accurate of the entire WW audience (for all of the reasons you all already pointed out) but at least it could give some insight to what online fans (that have time) think. Though you can't know exactly how people replied to the NBC survey, if the same people are generous enough to take the time to answer a similar one, we'll get almost the same results and be able to access them for free. And they'll be 'Joey-ized' too!

Most of what I have writen above is a direct explanation / instruction from Carly. She has been a lurker on this site for over a year, but has just registered so not quite able to post. That's all I know about the survey (other than what I learned from taking it.) You will be able to ask her questions soon.

Edited by phi blythe, Sep 6, 2005 @ 9:43 PM.


#46

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 10:03 PM

Can we spread this around to other chat boards? I don't know what kind of response the polling place is prepared to handle, but we could easily make this huge with a few pasted links in other discussion forums...

#47

phi blythe

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 10:19 PM

Yes. Please. Make it as huge as possible. I love to make my interns cry and work for their bread and butter.


The rest is no longer relevant.

Edited by phi blythe, Sep 7, 2005 @ 12:08 PM.


#48

jcsw

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 11:00 PM

The poll I mentioned before has now been constructed. If you would like to take it, please send an email to: unofficialwwsurvey@yahoo.com

DAMN! Color me impressed. This is why I love TWoP:people who care enough to make a survey! With interns and everything!

#49

Uppy

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 11:41 PM

phi blythe if we were one of the 250 who completed the survey before its reconstruction do we need to do it again to be counted?

#50

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Posted Sep 6, 2005 @ 11:51 PM

I loved being able to rank the characters on that survey. It was a little difficult to choose my favorites, though. Thank you phi blythe for the survey!

#51

phi blythe

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Posted Sep 7, 2005 @ 12:02 AM

I loved being able to rank the characters on that survey. It was a little difficult to choose my favorites, though. Thank you phi blythe for the survey!


OMG, no! I would love to be able to claim credit for this survey, but sadly can't. A few pages back, I said that if anyone knew how/had the time to make a survey identical to the NBC one (and then share the results) everyone would love them to heaven and back. In like, 10 minutes, this gorgeous woman sent me the email address of her daughter (Carly) who was willing to do it completely for free becuase as luck has it, she is also a WW fan and has been a lurker here for over a year. I think she has registered but her account hasn't been confirmed yet or something, so she sent me emails with what to post on her behalf!!!

phi blythe if we were one of the 250 who completed the survey before its reconstruction do we need to do it again to be counted?

"If you have already replied to the survey, whether before or after the reconstruction, your answers are already saved and will be included with all the other results. However, if you wish to take it again, you can send another email to unofficialwwsurvey@yahoo.com and as long as you say upfront that you would like to RE-TAKE the survey, it will not be a problem. We will replace your first survey's answers with your new ones."

#52

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Posted Sep 7, 2005 @ 2:47 AM

Thanks to phi blythe for suggesting the survey and to Carly and her Interns for creating it. Any of them named Lauren, by any chance?
I thought it was very professionally done. I really enjoyed ranking the characters, something the NBC survey didn't do. I know it's unlikely to change anything, but it's nice to be able to express my opinion.

#53

CarlyVDH

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Posted Sep 7, 2005 @ 2:26 PM

[Survey Closed. Post No Longer Relevant. -Lauren for Carly/Sam]

Edited by CarlyVDH, Sep 29, 2005 @ 3:08 PM.


#54

Ghostly

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Posted Sep 7, 2005 @ 8:33 PM

Thanx CarlyVDH & phi blythe. Its much better then the NBC survey.

#55

MrKrueger

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Posted Sep 7, 2005 @ 11:34 PM

Thanks for the survey Carly, it was fun to do. Although I really had a hard time rating the characters from most favorite to least favorite. I love just about all the characters, so it felt wrong putting some of them lower on that list. :x

#56

RedLady

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Posted Sep 8, 2005 @ 6:25 AM

Can I start the survey, stop and resume at a later time?

#57

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Posted Sep 8, 2005 @ 9:43 AM

phi blythe or CarlyVDH, I did a quick web search looking for info on the firm doing the survey as people seem impressed by the quality and I may need to run a one for boring work-related reasons soon. Google and Yahoo's Business directory didn't pop anything up when I searched on "Carly Himmel". It seems a little odd that a modern market research firm wouldn't have a web site. The business is named after Carly, right? I tried searching on her name and came up with nothing. Do either of you have a link handy?

#58

lacey

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Posted Sep 8, 2005 @ 11:36 AM

Hello. This is my first post so fingers crossed it get it right.

I work peripherally in the AUS entertainment industry and am extremely familiar with the firm that is said to be working on this survey. It is commonly referred to as 'VDH' or 'Van Der Himmel and Assc.' but I'm not sure what name its registered under. They have a website but it is not available to the public. You need a password, which, when working for my old employer, I used to have but it is now invalid.

Though small, VDH is one of the most elite public relations firms in Australia. It specialises in image consultancy and is credited with the celebrity of many Australian icons. It has turned down names that would make mouths drop. The company operates on a dont-call-us-we'll-call-you level but once you IN so to speak, you get treated like royalty. I've been to their Toorak office many times and beyond impressed just with how I was treated. And I was only a P.A...

Why this long spiel? Because I'm having some trouble believing the firm would agree to do this survey as it is not in their usual realm. Not only do they not conduct surveys (they contract a company to do it for them when need be) but they're just too platinum to do something like that? I've met Mrs. van der Himmel before, when she was Ms. Danes, and would be extremely unimpressed with anyone trying to impersonate her or her company.

I'm sorry if I sound rude, but how do I know that it's really VDH that is creating and monitoring this survey? Carly when I was working for my ex-employer, the password for the site was GOTHEDEMONS. Can you prove that it is really you / your company by telling me who the person was?

#59

WhackAMole

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Posted Sep 8, 2005 @ 12:00 PM

VDH is one of the most elite public relations firms in Australia.


Ah, well, nevermind on my account. I need a market research firm, and one in the states at that. We'd never use a public relations firm to do polling. They all just outsource it and you wind up paying twice as much for the pleasure of using a go-between. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

#60

shanoreily

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Posted Sep 8, 2005 @ 12:05 PM

nevermind.

Edited by shanoreily, Sep 8, 2005 @ 12:26 PM.