791 replies to this topic

[BanjoSteve]

Well, it should take more than twenty-four hours to build, and people who visit will take their cues on how to behave from the locals. Also, my sources are telling me that the second week of March isn't looking good for Caesar.

[DumbBrunette]

Bwah, BanjoSteve! Brilliant.

Edited by DumbBrunette, Aug 22, 2005 @ 9:58 PM.

[HungryHippo2004]

Seriously though, what constitues a spoiler for a show like this? I would imagine Caesar being murdered doesn't count, but what about other, lesser known historical points that will be involved with the show?

I'd imagine anything historical will be fair game to be discussed.

[blackwing]

Caesar isn't going to die anytime soon. The show is set in 52 BC. Caesar didn't die until 44 BC. So they've got about 8 years of show before that would happen, and HBO never seems to have shows last for more than 6 seasons.

On another note, I read somewhere that Octavian was recast after a few episodes, and I couldn't figure out why. Does he age a lot in a few weeks?

[Tivo Queen]

On another note, I read somewhere that Octavian was recast after a few episodes, and I couldn't figure out why. Does he age a lot in a few weeks?

There was a long break in filming last year and they couldn't get the same actor back when filming resumed.

[Rhoswen]

They could end the first season with Caesar's death. Back in January, Entertainment Weekly said that was how season one would end. I don't have the link to that article anymore, but here is a link to another article from February 2005 that implies it:

http://www.indiantel.../feb/feb195.htm

The article calls Rome a 12-hour series and an "epic dramatisation of the events leading to Julius Caesar's murder by Brutus." That sounds like it's what the first season is about, because it says more seasons will follow if this one is a success.

Another article:

http://www.departure..._0505_rome.html

...shows a timeline at the end. The story begins in 52 B.C. Cleopatra shows up towards the end of season one according to this interview with James Purefoy (the info about Cleopatra is near the end):

http://www.findartic..._34/ai_n6186310

According to the timeline, Caesar doesn't meet Cleopatra until 48 B.C. It's not inconceivable that the first season would end with Caesar's assassination in 44 B.C. At the very least, it doesn't sound like this show will be 1 season = 1 year of time.

Edited by Rhoswen, Aug 23, 2005 @ 3:07 PM.

[blackwing]

If Caesar is to die at the end of this season, I don't understand why they just didn't set it in 45 BC. They seem to specifically mention it is 52 BC.

I guess not everyone (i.e. the general viewing public) is as familiar with Roman history so probably wouldn't even know the difference.

[TropGirl]

I'm a bit confused about how history impacts spoilers too. I did notice that it looks like Octavia marries Marc Antony pretty early on in the show, but in real-life this didn't happen until after Caesar's death. It doesn't seem like they've been as clear on dates and such as many of us would have wished, but I guess we'll have to wait and see until the show airs.

Does anyone know who is playing Cleopatra?

Edited by TropGirl, Aug 24, 2005 @ 6:40 AM.

[HungryHippo2004]

According to an interview with James Purefoy, they haven't cast the role of Cleopatra. Looking at the article again (link is in this thread) though, its dated September 2004, so they've probably got someone hired.

[Rhoswen]

Cleopatra will be played by Lyndsey Marshal:

http://www.curtisbro...=Female&Age=Any

Scroll about 2/3 down the page for her info and picture. I don't know why "the young" was specified. Maybe it means someone else will perhaps play "the old" Cleopatra, although she didn't live to be very old.

Edited by Rhoswen, Aug 24, 2005 @ 7:51 AM.

[viva v]

There's a nice little Caesar historical timeline here. I needed a little brushing up on the dates myself!

Apparently, in 52 BC, "Rioting in Rome led to Pompey's extra-legal election as 'consul without a colleague.'" Thus leading up to the Caesar/Pompey split after Caesar finishes up conquering Gaul. A nice civil war ensues in 49 BC when Caesar crosses the Rubicon, which should make for great television. Maybe they'll play the Journey song while he crosses it. Heh.

[jazz]

ROME
The Stolen Eagle
Two soldiers must find the army's golden standard; the Senate worries about Caesar's popularity; Atia is careful to play both sides of an escalating power struggle.

Sept. 4
How Titus Pullo Brought Down the Republic
Mark Antony returns to Rome; Vorenus heads home to his family; Pompey drafts an ultimatum stripping the general of his power.

Lead Actors: Kevin McKidd, Ray Stevenson
Actors: Ciarán Hinds, Kenneth Cranham, Polly Walker, James Purefoy, Tobias Menzies, Lindsay Duncan, Indira Varma, Max Pirkis, Kerry Condon

Edited by jazz, Aug 24, 2005 @ 7:53 PM.

[HavingFun]

If season 1 ends with Caesar's murder, then season 2 would probably be spent on hunting down his murderers. Also, if I, Claudius can fit more than 60 years into 13 hours, HBO should be able to fit 8 years into that same amount. If the series is a success, then the series finale should probably be Actium (death of Anthony & Cleopatra). Anything more would just be a retread of I, Claudius.

Rhoswen, Cleopatra is probably described as "the young" because she's in her late teens when she meets up with Caesar. Also, what race is the actress? I'm curious to see if they cast a black (because the country is Egypt) or white (because she is Greek).

[blackwing]

I'd love to see Cleopatra show up at the end of Season 1. I know that her race has been hotly debated. Supposedly her parents were Ptolemy and his wife/sister. If so, then she'd be white. However, I also know that it has been suspected that Cleopatra's mother was a black slave, which would make her look mixed race.

Of course, usually whenever we see Cleopatra in movies and TV she is invariably white (except for that TV movie where I thought she looked Latina). I think it would be very daring of HBO to cast a black or mixed race actress.

Rosario Dawson would make a great Cleopatra.

ETA: never mind, I just saw that link and that actress looks thoroughly white. Also, IMO, not very pretty. Cleopatra's beauty was supposedly legendary. I stand by my assertion that Rosario Dawson would have been a great choice. Too bad she's not English.

Edited by blackwing, Aug 26, 2005 @ 3:58 PM.

[AzureOwl]

then the series finale should probably be Actium (death of Anthony & Cleopatra).

Antony and Cleopatra didn’t die at Actium. They committed suicide over a year after the battle, after Octavian invaded Egypt and Mark Antony's legions deserted him.

Also, what race is the actress? I'm curious to see if they cast a black (because the country is Egypt) or white (because she is Greek).

Since they’re going for as much historical accuracy as possible, she’ll be portrayed by a white actress. The Ptolomies were a Greek and massively inbred family. Furthermore, most Egyptologists consider that “black Cleopatra” theory to be baseless

Edited by AzureOwl, Aug 26, 2005 @ 4:45 PM.

[random]

I don't know, the actress who will play 'Patra looks interesting. Her features are unusual and quite striking. A good art director and cinematographer could do some pretty breathtaking stuff with her.

[MistressSarcasm]

Cleopatra's beauty was supposedly legendary.

I thought she was more renowned for her intellect and wit, rather than her beauty.

[calicol]

First of all, the Ptolemies were Macedonian without an ounce of Egyptian blood in their veins. Their bloodline can be considered "pure" in worst possible way because they have followed the marriage (philadelphic???) practices of the pharaohs. In other words the kings and queens of Ptolomaic Egypt were actually brothers and sisters or uncles and nieces or nephews and aunts. I'm not sure whether there have been a father-daughter marriage but that had also been practiced by the pharaohs. True, the pharaohs like all ancient kings had a harem full of concubines (some of whom might be Egyptians from noble families) but were the resulting children even considered eligible for the throne?
As for Cleopatra's legendary beauty and sensuality, actual history says otherwise.
And also, as a Macedonian she was likely a redhead.
As for her affairs with Julius Caesar and Marc Anthony, in the eyes of all Egypt these have been true dynastic marriages.

[jazz]

According to the TV Guide article ROME covers 8 years in it's 12 episodes. Are we sure that if it's a hit it will become a series? Wouldn't it be too expensive?

[Rhoswen]

Several of the actors signed up to 5-year contracts (James Purefoy and Kerry Condon did, I believe), and Lindsay Duncan is signed for at least season 2. I read one article that said some scripts have already been written for season 2 (in case it's successful enough to be renewed).

Building the huge set is part of what cost so much, and they'd re-use most of the set if it continues past one season.

Edited by Rhoswen, Aug 28, 2005 @ 1:12 AM.

[DeputyCommSense]

I thought she was more renowned for her intellect and wit, rather than her beauty.
As for Cleopatra's legendary beauty and sensuality, actual history says otherwise.

I recall seeing a coin with Cleo's profile in an art history class and the woman had a huge nose. I believe the concept of Cleo as a latter day Helen of Troy came about with Shakespeare.

[jazz]

Our TV Critic gives it a B-. At least he first six hours, which is what he watched.Not including the credits four ofthe six chapters are under 40 minutes. That it could get tedious, but Polly Walker was it's saving grace. He compared her Atia to Tony Soprano, and Al Swearengen. And apparently she gets some of the best lines. In Chapter 4 forcing Octavian to eat a goat testicle because it puts oak in your penis. (Oh my.) By Chapter 6 she's sending him to a brothel to get devirginized, with Titus Pullo as his chaperone. Something tells me he would rater lose his virginity with Titus. The first we see her she's riding Timon like it's the Kentucky Derby. She assures him it wasn't a hardship for her. "I've always found something perversely erotic about goaty little men." (Hee.) But my favorite has to be in Chapter 6 when she sends brooding, vengeful Servilla a naked man with a "giant appendage". She's my kind of friend. ;) I certainly wouldn't want her for an enemy.

[Rhoswen]

Thanks, jazz :) I've been wondering in which episodes some of those things took place! Atia hires Titus Pullo to teach Octavian "guy stuff" - that oughta be interesting.

Edited by Rhoswen, Aug 28, 2005 @ 7:06 PM.

[Bspalek]

I am also going to have a trouble distinguishing what is going to be considered a spoiler or not. I am assuming the audience will already have some sort of historical knowledge of Roman History.

I just had HBO installed this weekend (after finishing the first season of Deadwood) and right in time. Roman History has always fascinated me (Well, history in general). So I am really thrilled about this show and am glad that it is coming to HBO, as only they could do it justice.

I just finished watching the "Making of", because yes I am a dork, and I have a feeling I am going to love Atia. I am also thrilled that they are actually filming in Italy. The sets are ridiculous. This show is going to be so pretty.

Edited by Bspalek, Aug 28, 2005 @ 5:29 PM.

[Messy]

If they're going to do Cleo, it should be Ashlee Simpson. Don't kill me, but she's a decent actrees, is quite sexy and has a huge honker.

AS to Cleo's being black, the whole thing is a "reverse-racist" pride fib. Egypt is in Africa, and some African-American activists have decided that anyone from Africa must look like either P-Diddy or Diana Ross.

According to what I've read, the Ptolomy who sired the "illegitimate" kids who ruled Egypt was a racist who wouldn't let any "nubians" in the Palace much less his bed.

[Aileithyia]

ETA: Oops, someone answered that upthread. I need more coffee, stat! Nothing to see here.

Edited by Aileithyia, Aug 29, 2005 @ 8:03 AM.

[scarynikki12]

We talked about Cleopatra in my Women in Antiquity class in summer school. As mentioned above, her Macedonian heritage would give her the same physical features of the Greeks at that time (black hair, olive skin, dark eyes). I'm really hoping that they bring her into the story soon. She had sexual affairs with both Julius Caesar and Mark Antony, not because she was this whore of antiquity (as history has painted her), but because she was a highly intelligent ruler who ensured that Egypt would not be destroyed by the Romans. Her priority was to Egypt and nothing would get in her way. She was very similar to the ruling men of this time, which is a major reason why she was so deeply hated by her enemies. I could go on about Cleopatra forever (that class had a major impact on me), but for now I'll just wait until she shows up.

[jazz]

Let's see...Episode 2 brings in Niobe. Lucius' wife who apparently has a surprise for him. Also included is a gruesome brain operation on a key character who recovers with stunning rapidity. Atia chance to bed Marc Atony, "a swordsman in every sense of the word". Dirty! And Octavia pulls a When Harry met Sally, and imitates her mother's orgasm for everyone at a party. I guess she's still pissed at her mom. But Atia's just getting warmed up.

Episode 2 summary:
Anointed People's Tribune by Caesar, Mark Antony returns to Rome with Octavian's liberators, Vorenus and Pullo. After being feted by a grateful Atia, Vorenus heads home to his family for the first time in eight years, while Pullo heads for the brothels. Shocked to see a husband she thought was dead, Vorenus' wife, Niobe, presents him with a family he barely recognizes. After the Senate rebuffs Caesar's "compromise" for a heroic return to Rome, Antony learns that Pompey has drafted an ultimatum stripping the general of his power. With tempers on both sides reaching a boiling point, unfinished business involving Pullo spawns a Forum melee that all but ensures an unhappy outcome in the Pompey-Caesar standoff - and sends Pullo and an injured Vorenus back into Caesar's ranks.


Poor Pullo can't cach break, but at least he'll get some. Lucius' is injured. Is he the one who gets the brain operation?

Edited by jazz, Sep 3, 2005 @ 9:20 PM.