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Season Four: Revenge of the Spy Daddies


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#91

Keon440

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Posted Jun 21, 2005 @ 9:56 AM

Best Episodes:

Welcome to Liberty Village
Echoes
The Index
Tuesday
Pandora
Another Mr. Sloane
Mirage
The Descent/Search and Rescue
Before the Flood

Worst Episode:
The Road Home

Amazingly, I went from disliking over half of the episodes in season three to only one in season four.

Edited by Keon440, Jun 21, 2005 @ 9:57 AM.


#92

YourMom

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Posted Jun 21, 2005 @ 4:11 PM

Best: The Descent/Search & Rescue, The Index, Mirage, Another Mister Sloane

Worst: I'm agreeing with you on The Road Home, fuzzybutt. Even though it was bad for sure, I think the extreme reaction should be attributed to the stupid whirlygig. I still think there were worse episodes in terms of writing/characterization. I nominate The Awful Truth, which really lived up (down?) to its name, and Nocture, which was only slightly preferable to an hour of watching paint dry.

#93

mysticowl

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Posted Jun 22, 2005 @ 7:41 AM

Best: Mirage, Tuesday, Search And Rescue.
Worst: The Awful Truth

Favourite lines, aside from those already mentioned:
"You want us to believe that you have listened to the better angels of your nature? Please. Arvin. Let's be honest. You don't have any."
"She can have the blouse."
"You're just a fake with my good looks."
And even though this has been mentioned, I just have to laugh at it again: "Don't touch the fur. Okay you can touch the fur. Once."

Overall, this season held some big annoyances for me. I hate the character of Nadia, I just find it so mind-boggling that she would actually say to Sydney, "I know my dad killed your fiance, get over it already." Plus her whole vengeance over Irina's supposed murder was so contrived, it's like, "You don't even know the woman, Nadia, let it go, eh?" Which is why during the SpyFam dinnerparty, when Nadia was toasting the group, I was wincing. I kept on thinking to myself, "Do you realize you're telling the man whose wife cheated on him with his best friend how happy you are to be the result of said double betrayal?"

Word to everyone who said that the out-of-order airing of the episodes screwed up Syd/Vaughn relationship quite a bit. I'm definitely going to have to get my hands on the DVDs and watch everything in the correct order.

For the most part, I didn't like Sonia Braga as Elena at all. She severely lacked something Lena Olin and Isabella Rossellini had that made them awesome and the lack of which made Braga meh. However, in the last couple of episodes, she redeemed herself to me and I could buy into her being a Derevko.

Oh, by the way: "I've been wanting to do this since you were eleven." - Irina was like five when Elena was eleven, and that's one blood thirsty five year old...

Victor Garber, Lena Olin, and Ron Rifkin definitely made it all worth while for me. They're just so awesome and when they're all together on a screen being awesome it's like a supernova of awesomeness.

Word to a poster way up the thread who said the character of Marshall was great this season, what with the spork and "We had eggs" and "Then he's torture or blackmail somebody."

Adding my voice to: not enough Dixon! I don't care that we can now imagine he spends all his off-screen time snogging Angle Bassett, I want Dixon on my screen, dammit.

At this point, I don't care if next season has almost no Sydney and no Vaughn. As long as it has lots and lots of SpyDaddy, SpyMommy, Dixon, Sloane, cameos by Katya, and the funny by Marshall, I'm good.

#94

InsaneDuck

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Posted Jun 23, 2005 @ 10:59 AM

Season 4 had some unique things in it, with the new writers from Angel and Buffy. I loved the writing in Ice, and the cool things they did with Nadia's eyes in Before the Flood. I don't think JG deserves an Emmy nomination this year because she wasn't the main focus this season. It was more of an ensemble effort. Season 1, 2 and 3 she has been the main focus. But because of her injury and her busy schedule with filming Elektra, she wasn't in the show nearly as much. My favorite scene with her was when she was pretending to be her mother to get Jack to tell the location of the doctor. VG totally deserves an Emmy nomination for this season. He was amazing. I liked the relationship between Syd and Jack this season. It was somewhat bittersweet for the whole season, which was nice. Season 2 was also half and half. Season 3 she clung onto SpyDaddy, while she didn't care for him in Season 1. And the surprise appearance of Irina at the end of the season was great. But I felt that storyline, along with the Bill Vaughn storyline was a bit rushed. As for Nadia, I think her character could have been expanded a whole lot more. I wanted to see more tension between Syd and Nadia instead of them just being lovey-dovey the whole time. I thought (in the beginning of Season 4) that Jack ordered Vaughn to kill Irina, and Nadia would find out that Vaughn killed her mother, and she would kill (or at least hurt) Vaughn, causing major tension between Syd and Nadia. But overall, I thought Season 4 had a lot of new things. They were risky with it, and I kind of liked it. We didn't exactly see how a lot of those gadgets were used in the episodes leading up to the finale, but other than that, I thought season 4 was a breath of fresh air.

My top 5 episodes (in preferential order):

Nightingale - This episode was perfect IMO. It showed Jack's love for Syd. It had Marshall in it. It had the influence of the Buffy/Angel writers with the whole Nightingale project. It had conspiracy and the beginnings of finding out about Elena Derevko. It was... wow. I loved it.

The Descent/Search and Rescue - I count them together because one episode just isn't the same without the other. I loved the backstory with how Nadia and Sloane got the Sphere of Life, and how Jack killed Irina. And Lena Olin was there, omgah.

Mirage - I love Jack and Syd episodes. The scene where Syd was pretending to be her mom was haunting, but JG and VG had great acting there. I loved the twist that Jack had been hallucinating the whole time. Loved it.

Echoes - It was great to see old faces such as Anna and Sark in this episode. I loved the tension between Syd and Anna. And that 'next time on Alias' preview, where they show Jack injecting Nadia, I swear, I almost screamed, LOL. But I loved seeing old faces.

Tuesday - Total Marshall episode. It rocked. And there was some Kill Bill influence there (buried alive... Uma Thurman..). I just loved Marshall being hero for the day.

I have to give honorable mentions to Before the Flood, Another Mister Sloane, and the pilot. Why the pilot? It was a gutsy start and the acting was still fabulous for everybody. And they still had the hooking cliffhanger.

Episodes I didn't feel were as strong:

Nocturne - There was definite Buffy/Angel writer influence, which I liked. And I loved Dixon's speech at the end. But it just wasn't my cup of tea... the storyline didn't come up anywhere else in the season.

The Road Home - I liked seeing Sydney's soft side, and the Creepy Helicopter of Doom, but it was really stand-alone. Too much stand-alone in that episode.

Overall Grades for the 4 Seasons:

Season 1: A
Season 2: A
Season 3: C
Season 4: B-B+

#95

cjl

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Posted Jul 15, 2005 @ 3:26 PM

Welcome, Willowhugger!

Hey, I'm a longtime fan of Television without Pity though I've never joined the forums until now. Due to my work schedule I never get to see Alias on television but instead watched the DVDs and now have the option of watching Season 4 on tape. I was a huge fan of Season 1 and 2 but less so Season 3.

Oddly, my problem wasn't the character of Lauren. I had her pegged as a double agent from the beginning. Seriously, Vaugn and Sydney obstacle with THIS show? Oh, she's so certainly the Francie of this season. Especially with the British accent. In television, everyone whose British is evil unless they're a Butler or Sea Captain. Didn't much care for her and Sark though, when they stood together they looked like brother and sister.

My problem with Season 3 was the disjointed nature of the storytelling. The entire focus should have been on the missing two years and the character development there but that was dropped from the beginning, the Covenant I thought should have been Irena's organization but we never got a name for it, and they reveal Rambaldi's consciousness only to NOT SHOW IT...

So yeah, I'm very turned off right now and am curious if I should continue. You guys are without pity, so lay it to me straight....does the "it blows" continue?

Does the "it blows" continue? No. At least not to the point where you throw down your remote and stalk away from the couch, muttering "That's it. I'm outta here." The first ten or so eps of S4 are competently written, acted and directed, without too many eye-rolling contrivances and muddled plotlines. A number of those eps--"Ice," "Echoes," and "Nocturne" are enjoyable. You just have to get past the end of the opening two-parter and the subsequent episode, and you can pretty much enjoy the rest of the season until it derails in the finale. Just don't ask questions like: Why are Syd and Dix willing to work with Sloane? Weren't the Wittenburg documents supposed to be about Project Christmas? Why would Nadia make that stupid speech about getting revenge on Mommy's killer. (Believe me, life will be easier that way.)

Once you get to "The Index," the seasonal arc kicks in and (with the exception of "The Road Home"), the show verges on greatness again for the first time since S2. "The Index," "Tuesday," "Another Mister Sloane," and "Search and Rescue" are all-time classics. And if you don't cry at the end of "Mirage," I don't want to know you. I don't.

So, yes, Willowhugger, it's safe to watch S4. Be patient, and you will be rewarded. And, in the last five minutes of the season, flabbergasted. Outraged. Dumbsquizzled. Baffled. Confoozled...

#96

Willowhugger

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Posted Jul 15, 2005 @ 3:53 PM

Thanks for the recommendation there.

Edited by Willowhugger, Jul 15, 2005 @ 4:00 PM.


#97

kicking57

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Posted Jul 15, 2005 @ 6:04 PM

cjl, that was the BEST summary of S4 I have yet to read. The list of "what not to ask" is dead on (must drink more, think less).

Willowhugger, don't worry about being spoiled for the first ten eps or so but after that don't read too much about the last 10 or 12 episodes -- it's heap tons of fun to be completely unspoiled with some of the big reveals that are in store for you. As cjl said, once the main story arc begins there are some moments that are simply classic.

I give you fair warning about most of the last episode, however. Don't set your expectations too high for the main part of the finale, which I did after brilliant episode that is Search and Rescue only to be greatly disappointed.

ETA -- Willowhugger, just read on the APO thread that you don't mind being spoiled sooooooo feel free to disregard the above.

Edited by kicking57, Jul 15, 2005 @ 6:10 PM.


#98

Willowhugger

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Posted Jul 15, 2005 @ 6:25 PM

I appreciate the concern anyway and I know that its better to AVOID being spoiled.

I just know a certain SpyMommy is coming back and Vaugn isn't Vaugn.

#99

Itchyscratch

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Posted Jul 17, 2005 @ 11:33 PM

May I ask, of anyone who knows - what IS the correct production order for season 4 episodes - I hadn't realized they were aired out of order but it makes sense now that I know it.

So, if anyone can either tell me or point me to a link with the info, much appreciated.


Edited to Add - Thanx, Prue!

Edited by Itchyscratch, Jul 18, 2005 @ 4:04 AM.


#100

prue

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Posted Jul 18, 2005 @ 12:03 AM

As per this post, which I understand to be correct:

Eppy # Original Order
1 - APO 1 1
2 - APO 2 2
3 - The Awful Truth 3
4 - Ice 5
5 - Welcome to Liberty Village 9
6 - Nocturne 6
7 - Detente 4
8 - Echoes 7
9 - A Man of His Word 8
10 - The Index 10
11 - The Road Home 11
12 - The Orphan 12
13 - Tuesday 16
14 - Nightingale 13
15 - Pandora 14
16 - Another Mister Sloane 15
17 - A Clean Conscience 17
18 - Mirage 18
19 - In Dreams 19
20 - The Descent 20
21 - Search and Rescue 21
22 - Before the Flood 22

#101

SpyDadFan

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Posted Jul 18, 2005 @ 3:29 AM

Thanks, prue, I'm printing that out for future reference.

#102

rachna78

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Posted Jul 18, 2005 @ 10:57 AM

It actually makes more sense if you see them in that order. My husband and I actually taped them that way and have been watching them in that order. The entire "Lets take it slow.....and have sex five minutes later.....but we are taking it slow...." is still odd, but works better somehow. I hope they are in their original orders of the DVD.

Without a doubt having watched the entire season again, the best episode is Tuesday.

#103

Willowhugger

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Posted Jul 22, 2005 @ 5:56 PM

I'm enjoying the season (episode 7 now) thus far but at present it's lagging behind Season 3 in my enjoyment factor. It's thus coming up to be my least favorite of the four seasons sadly. My complaints can be summarized as followed...

1. The obviousness of the premise

Weirdly, I don't have a problem with Arvin Sloane having bribed his way into the position. I don't have a problem with the fact Syd and Dixon have to work for Sloane again (they were willing to watch innocent people killed when they worked for SD-6, they're not the most ethical government officials out there).

What I do mind is the obviousness the fact that they're bringing back SD-6. They even SAY IT in the pilot. It goes beyond APO too. Nadia is the new Francie and Weis is the new Willage Idiot.

I didn't mind the pilot whatsoever, it's just the creep factor of the "Hand of God" reset here.

2. The complete hot potato drop of Season 3 plots

I didn't like the Covenant that much honestly. Largely because they had a wasted opportunity to reveal it was Irena Derevco's Secret Organization (which they did I thought with Quentin Tarantino and my complaint was "What fan DIDN'T *KNOW* it was Irenya's organization?" I mean, COME ON! Crazy Rambadli Obsession, Religious Iconography, Everybody is Russian, and they kidnap Syd to retrain her rather than kill her)

We don't know what happened to Spyauntie Rosellini, whether the Covenant was severely hurt by Sark's capture/Lauren's death, and whatever happened to (I can't use my name for Lauren, who I always called the Spy*itch because I never believed her to be stupid...I believed she was an evil double agent from the beginning? Why? BECAUSE IT'S ALIAS! EVERYONE IS A LIAR)

I'm frankly just glad that they had Vaugn deal with Lauren's death. I'm also glad they decided to play it straight rather than that psychological conditioning garbage (WHAT was that all about?)

3. The lack of formidable enemies

We had Rutger Haur, Irenya, Roger Moore, Anna Espinoza, the guy from Amistad, Lauren herself, Isabella, Sark, and the weird guy who claps who was head of SD6. They're memorable bad guys. I'm spoiled enough to know that we're going to get some towards the end of the season

However, lacking the Covenant or other secret group, these guys seem also to well...not exactly leap off the page in their scariness.

It's "White Guy who is a terrorist."

4. The tension is too obvious

Vaugn and Sydney together 4ever is pretty much established from the getgo of the story. There's no Willtension or even the fiance tension of before that started the whole thing off. Nadia/Weis is also about as interesting as white bread.

Nadia/Jack or something otherwise unexpected would have been preferred. It would have amped the tension up a thousandfold between Sloane and him.

So yeah, it's good but the whole self contained episode thing is burning me a bit here. It's like watching Witchblade's second season again and knowing none of this matters no matter how interesting it is.

#104

Jersey47

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Posted Jul 24, 2005 @ 10:25 AM

That's the original order? It does make sense, prue, but before the seasson started I went to Two Evil Monks (I think) and it said that "Nocturne" was originally supposed to be before "Welcome to Liberty Village." Which if you actually think about it, kind of makes sense (the relationship going slow, and them gettin' it awn in the shower in Stepford). I was most likely misinformed. Oops.

But I do agree, that parts of certain episodes (particularly those parts when Sydney and Vaughn are in the shower, and then "taking it slow" again) don't track, and this orginal order does make a lot of sense.

Edited by Jersey47, Jul 24, 2005 @ 10:26 AM.


#105

Edyn04

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Posted Jul 24, 2005 @ 2:35 PM

That's the original order? It does make sense, prue, but before the seasson started I went to Two Evil Monks (I think) and it said that "Nocturne" was originally supposed to be before "Welcome to Liberty Village."

It was, yup. "Nocturne" is ep 6, "WTLV" is ep 9.

#106

KaveDweller

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Posted Jul 24, 2005 @ 5:44 PM

If you watch them in the original order, it works so much better that I really can't even fathom the thought process behind changing it around. I know this has been said before, but it seems like such a big mistake that it is worth repeating.

Originally, the words "taking it slow" were dropped after WTLV. Or, before it actually.

#107

prue

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Posted Jul 24, 2005 @ 6:42 PM

That's the original order? It does make sense, prue, but before the seasson started I went to Two Evil Monks (I think) and it said that "Nocturne" was originally supposed to be before "Welcome to Liberty Village."


It was, indeed. If you look at the list, the eps are in airing order, but at the end you have the ep numbers in the original order.

Ep # Original Order
5 - Welcome to Liberty Village 9
6 - Nocturne 6


So Nocturne is 6 and WTLV is 9.

It would have been clearer if tabs can be done in posts. Unfortunately, they can't. So, sorry about the formatting, which may have made things unclear.

#108

kicking57

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Posted Jul 24, 2005 @ 10:17 PM

Watching Detente in proper order also makes for much better flow. If you'll recall, on the boat, Syd gives that great monologue about the horror that is Sloane then, at the end, tells him why she will not put in for a transfer, i.e. she reaches a detente with the man. Originally, watching it a third of the way into the season, she comes off as whiney and her hostility seems out of place after several episodes of apparent acceptance of the APO situation. In fact, in her recap, even Erin told Sydney to "shut. up." repeatedly.

Now, viewing it right after The Awful Truth as intended, her behavior is perfectly consistant with having to learn to deal with her arch enemy as her boss.

Damn the ABC monkeys!

#109

Willowhugger

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Posted Aug 10, 2005 @ 2:37 AM

I just finished watching the last of Season Four and I've got to say that I feel underwhelmed. Season Four is hands down the worst season of Alias to me. It feels so...amateuresque.

Season 3 keeps going up in my estimation since it keeps becoming the most believable and intriguing of the three seasons (1 and 2 are classic for the SD-6 arc and the "Sloane pursuit" arcs but Season 3 was an attempt to build a new Mythology).

Season 4 is nothing but rehash. Worse, it's warmed over rehash.

1. SG-6/APO is the first big mistake. Putting Sloane in charge was patently ridiculous and while I was able to buy it, the worst part of it though was the fact that the base looked so artificial. Who the HELL works in an all-white base? It looks like it's the cast headquarters for Star Trek or Willy Wonka's Wonkavision? All the other bases looked like real places.

2. Vaughn and Sydney without obstacles=the Snore. Seriously, the whole focus on Vaughn and Sydney without Will or Lauren is completely pointless and I didn't get why there was any problem with them getting back together. It's somewhat like Nadia and Weiss. They're a great couple. Why? Because they're compatible and there's nothing whatsoever bad about their relationship.

3. The whole relationships of the arc are too damned compatible! Jack/Syd, Nadia/Sloane, Nadia/Syd, Dixon/Sloane, Sloane/Syd. Damnit, everyone is getting along! Hell, Jack/Irena. This is the worst offender. Jack may love irena but he will never forgive or forget and will always hate her...that's why it works. That's why it's INTERESTING goddamnit. Director Chase and Dixon? FUCK! It's like the happily ever after season!

Show me something WRONG, SICK, and NASTY. Show me Nadia/Jack! Show me some Sloane with Vaughn's new girlrfriend! Weiss/Syd!

4. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was watching ANIME. What the hell is up with the whacked out plots? The Ice plot, the Red Ball of Goo over the Russian city, I swear to God when is Magneto going to show up? The brainwave bit was ridiculous last season but the Arvin Clone 'brain copy' and beees business couldn't make this any more fantasy based than if Jack sent Syndey undercover in Mordor.

5. Why is everything so damned funny? Arvinclone spoken by Syd, the played for laughs removal of an eyeball by Marshall, and EVERYTHING rang false. Season 3 was arguably the most realistic in people's reactions but here...it's ugh.

6. The Covenant. The "oops, the Covenant and K-Directorate went up in smoke" business is just plain wrong storytelling. It basically just magically WOOSHES away important plotlines. The Covenant was set up to be a massive organization rivalling SD-6 and then suddenly it's gone? UGH.

7. Sark....he just humiliated himself here and I don't honestly know why. Maybe it was BEING GOOD.

8. Good Arvin? What the...?

9. Good Irena....What the?

10. I mentioned Arivin Clone. I don't mind the fact that they used a plotline like this. What I mind is that they didn't do anything with it and it was stupid. There's a thousand more interesting plots that could have been done from someone impersonating Sloane to the idea Sloane was using an actor to one of my favorites....Sloane's brother.

11. Bill Vaughn....NOWHERE.

12. La Femme Nadia....her background somehow gets even MORE stereotypical than she's an orphan recruited into the secret service. Now she's a sexuall molested Syd clone that also is Nikita. Couldn't think of a BETTER SHOW's idea?

13. Rehash all round. Did I mention that?

This season, all in all, is utter crap.

Edited by Willowhugger, Aug 10, 2005 @ 2:38 AM.


#110

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Posted Aug 11, 2005 @ 3:50 PM

5. Why is everything so damned funny? Arvinclone spoken by Syd, the played for laughs removal of an eyeball by Marshall, and EVERYTHING rang false. Season 3 was arguably the most realistic in people's reactions but here...it's ugh.


Gotta say, the eyeball removal scene was a CLASSIC to me. I thought it was hysterical and I was telling all of my friends who dropped Alias after season three about it.

#111

andsoitbegins

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Posted Aug 11, 2005 @ 6:49 PM

The spork scene actually amused the heck out of me too. Mostly because people in Britain seem to not know what a spork actually is.

#112

Willowhugger

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Posted Aug 11, 2005 @ 7:52 PM

I admit, it's funny.

I guess Jack has never been to a KFC.

It's just that it was the first time that Marshall has killed someone and that it's a particularly gruesome scene.

Edited by Willowhugger, Aug 11, 2005 @ 7:53 PM.


#113

Spazzo47

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Posted Aug 11, 2005 @ 8:49 PM

The classic scenes were the funny ones I think. The the spork and the dinner party were great. But, when I think of moments of Alias that should be classics, I wish they were scenes like jack and Irina seeing each other for the first time in S&R or jack holding Sloane at gunpoint in AMS. Obviously those things happened, and were great, but, this season the show took a comic turn that I don't think it needed. Lost was the big hit of the season and it never acted like a caricature like Alias did. I think that's why the season rang false for so many.

#114

Jailbait47

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Posted Aug 11, 2005 @ 9:29 PM

Obviously those things happened, and were great, but, this season the show took a comic turn that I don't think it needed.


1. Word. WORD. WORD. WORDY MC WORDSON. I couldn't for the life of me put my finger on what exactly it was about the season that irked me until I read that post. You, Spazzo, are my new hero.

2. That being said, I think that certain funny moments were fully appropriate and appreciated (ie: Marshall/sporkscene and the comms dialogue in S&R).

3. I HATED Nadia at first, started to like her by the beginning/middle of S4, and then suddenly she lost all her endearing qualities and I wanted her to die. Well, except in that SpyMommy scene on the plane. That I liked.

4. I love Rambaldi. You could probably put a "Hi, my name is Rambaldi!" nametag on Will Ferrell and I owould prbably be able to tolerate - nay, like him. It's to the point that nothing seems like an overkill to me. Hell, the Clifford the Big Red Ball suspended ominously over Sevogda? Didn't really bug me, despite the batshit craziness of the concept.

Edited by Jailbait47, Aug 11, 2005 @ 9:30 PM.


#115

andsoitbegins

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Posted Aug 13, 2005 @ 9:26 AM

The point of Alias is to be batshit crazy though! Just because there's humour in the situation, it doesn't override the emotional scenes because you need them to appreciate the emotion more.

That's the outlook I take anyway.

#116

FoolishWanderer

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Posted Aug 23, 2005 @ 6:44 PM

Y'know, I had some bad luck this season. I like to eat while I watch TV or movies. So I make lunch, sit down, and watch Alias. Which eps do I get? Ice, Nocturne, and Tuesday. Wonderful. Watching people shatter, vomit blood and get buried alive is not my idea of good stuff to watch while eating.

And I have a theory about Elena and Clifford. Maybe she wanted to kill everyone so she could rebuild the world how she wanted it to go. Does that make any sense?

#117

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Posted Aug 23, 2005 @ 8:29 PM

Don't forget "Melting Man" from "Nightingale," FoolishWanderer. Actually, do.

Just because there's humour in the situation, it doesn't override the emotional scenes because you need them to appreciate the emotion more.

But was there enough emotion there? My feelings on S4 as a whole haven't evolved much from my initial reactions to the S4 premiere: the writers appeared to have the characters sleepwalk through what seemingly should have been emotionally charged, life-altering situations: Nadia forging a bond with her long-lost father and sister, Vaughn reacting to the search for his father, or Sydney having to break the news to Jack that Irina was wrongly incriminated. So many reactions and so many important interactions seemed shortchanged. There were zombified characters long before the season finale. For me, it's frustrating because the writers and actors can still do it well when they bring the A-game: Jack's heartbreaking conversation with Syd-as-Irina in "Mirage," Vaughn's speech about Lauren and bitterness in "Ice," Sloane's meltdown near the Big Red Ball in "Another Mister Sloane."

As far as plot goes, I just read a copy of the long-on-the-newstands "Yearbook" issue of Alias Magazine, and I thought it was cute and creative how the writers were inspired to craft a story that involved Ron Rifkin's three prior seasons of water-drinking on the set, based on their readings of fan sites where posters were wondering what the deal was with the water. It had a S1 or S2 feel about it: a warning that the little clues on the show do matter, even if they weren't even originally meant to matter. Jack hallucinating the doctor was also very clever.

So I wonder why they can't do the same thing on the bigger issues that take more than two episodes to resolve? The "Elena vs. everyone else" Rambaldi faceoff at the end of S4 showed little imagination and virtually no respect for the three seasons of Rambaldi mythology that came before. And with regard to the whole Bill Vaughn debacle, I think a fair number of posters (or maybe it was just me) were kind of frustrated with the whole Bill buildup that started end-S3 with the Brill character and continued with the S4 clues that implied Jack and Sloane possessed some 'incriminating' Bill Vaughn-penned journals. All these things demanded that Bill Vaughn not have died when Vaughn Jr. thought he did. And like Willowhugger stated above, it just went nowhere. Of course, standalone episodes are worse. Much, much worse. So if this is the best they can do in terms of story, I'll take it, versus having to sit through standalone hell next season, like we did during the first twelve or so episodes of S4.

#118

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slickoe

Posted Aug 28, 2005 @ 8:06 AM

Ok, here's an objective opinion - I never saw ALIAS until an hour ago - in fact I'd pretty much given up on network TV until LOST blew my shit away. So I thought I'd see if ALIAS was any good, knowing little about it but the basic premise. I downloaded and viewed the 4-01/4-02 ep. Starts out kinda cheesily, obvious fake accent on the cute chick- would the Russian really open that case so easily? So that is Jennifer Garner? She's cute but has little charisma, no leading lady, looks like a chick you'd see at the mall. Not a theatrical experience like LOST, you definitely know you are watching tv. WHOA! nice fight scene on the train, reminds me of a Jackie Chan fight, that came outta nowhere. Damn, I nearly fell outta my seat. Now I'm paying attention. Nice skirt, running thru the Chinese streets. VERY cool credits, with all the disguises and hairstyles-reminds me of BARETTA- the music is even neat. Now a lot of boring and cheesy stuff happens. Oh, they're using high-tech stuff to pull off a museum heist, never seen that anywhere before. Ok, that torture scene (a drowning mask??) was not tense like the torture scenes from LOST, not even close. My impression of this show is that it is contrived, derivative, and gimmicky, with no real standout performers, but is kinda neat to watch I guess---WHOA!! A killer ninja style swordfight outta nowhere, with butcher knives and meat cleavers!! That rocked! I'll check out a few more eps and give this show a chance if there is maybe some good action like that. The question is, do I go in order and watch the rest of season 4 or am I missing too much? Do I need the mythology and should I go back to the beginning?

Edited by slickoe, Aug 28, 2005 @ 8:51 AM.


#119

Chipper730

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Posted Aug 28, 2005 @ 8:35 AM

Go back to the beginning of the show, where Jen is TRULY a leading lady, the torture scenes are terrifying, it is not derivative or gimmicky. That is golden Alias (seasons 1 and 2).

Season four is considerably weaker, especially at the beginning, but if you want to understand the dynamics, go to season one. Or, read the recaps. ;)

#120

aprildancer

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Posted Aug 28, 2005 @ 10:37 AM

slickoe, I started watching Alias with S4, knew very very little about the show prior to that. I was completely lost, there was just enough to peek my interest (OK, full disclosure: Vartan and hockey), so I watched a couple of more episodes. Then I rented the Season 1 DVDs. Started watching one evening about 8PM. AT SIX IN THE MORNING, I finally forced myself to quit watching and get some sleep. I highly suggest you go get the S1 DVDs, try them. They'll blow you away.

Edited by aprildancer, Aug 28, 2005 @ 10:38 AM.