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#181

chailey

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Posted Jan 18, 2012 @ 9:57 AM

Saw last night's show on Custer and the Little Big Horn (not sure if it was a repeat). I read Son of the Morning Star many years ago, but the show brought out information that I don't remember reading. Didn't realize (or had forgotten) that Custer's perceived abandonment of one of his officers at the "battle" of the Washita directly led to his own lack of support at Little Big Horn, and that Benteen and Reno disliked him for reasons outside of what we might call famewhoreishness. Didn't realize how financially insecure Custer was and how he viewed this particular campaign as perhaps his last chance to jump to greater things. Found it hilarious that people thought he was so handsome as some of his later photos showed a balding, rather plain-looking, bedraggled guy. Totally ironic that Custer found his long desired fame by being killed in part due to his own ineptness.

One quote that I wished they had included--one of the Native American participants years later said that this person or that person had claimed to kill Custer, when the truth was, the battle was incredibly chaotic and over so fast, that no one could say for sure who had shot him.

There was a special done years ago of a study done after a fire had burned down the vegetation of the battlefield. They found many artifacts and bullets. They were able to tell where little groups of men had made their stands, moving several times before they were wiped out. There were also several soldiers that fled on horseback, that managed to make it a distance away before being killed, afaik remember.

Billboard seen in North Dakota, when I lived there 20 years ago: Stay in North Dakota--Custer was healthy when he left!
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#182

walnutqueen

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Posted Jan 18, 2012 @ 8:14 PM

I really enjoyed the Custer episode, and learned a lot more about him. My own knowledge of this event was from reading a book when I was very young and impressionable "Custer's Fall" (by David Humphreys Miller); it was the compiled recollections of several Native Americans who'd actually fought in the battle. The author had interviewed these old warriors back in the late 30's and had amazing access; it was a truly fascinating read. Being a Canadian, it was always easier for me to identify with "the Indians" rather than "the Cavalry".

Found it hilarious that people thought he was so handsome as some of his later photos showed a balding, rather plain-looking, bedraggled guy.

chailey, I think the Indians agreed with you - I read they didn't scalp him because that balding pate would make a piss-poor trophy!

Coming up next - Wyatt Earp and Geronimo.
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#183

chailey

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Posted Jan 18, 2012 @ 10:02 PM

Can't wait for the Wyatt Earp episode. He's definitely more of a villain than a hero, despite his stalwart hero status in the movies.
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#184

Zzingerific

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Posted Feb 21, 2012 @ 1:09 PM

I watched part one of Clinton this morning. I liked it, although I remember some things differently than they do. For example, they didn't mention the huge break Clinton got when Perot dropped out the race very day he accepted the nomination. I also don't think the second debate was quite the watershed they claimed. From the exchange they showed, I remember people attacking Bush for looking at his watch than praising Clinton. On the other hand, the show is about Clinton and not the election of 1992, so I guess I can cut them a little slack.

Edited by Zzingerific, Feb 22, 2012 @ 3:19 PM.

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#185

LADreamr

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Posted Feb 21, 2012 @ 5:58 PM

But Ross Perot had dug his own grave by that time. He dropped out of and re-entered the race, and even without all the crazy he brought to his campaign and the national stage, that alone lost him a lot of followers. I was very disappointed in the way he went about a lot of things during his campaign, because I had lived in Texas a long time and had seen a lot of the good he had done, and once was even the recipient of his great generosity. So, to see this crazy figure he was acting like, to a national audience who were unfamiliar with him, was very disheartening. I'm a Democrat and it still took me a while to support Clinton, but ultimately I'm glad he won.

I don't think the doc is being overly praising of him, though. They seem to be showing him, warts and all. It's really good, and I'm looking forward to the rest of it tonight. I wouldn't even mind an additional night of this.
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#186

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Feb 22, 2012 @ 1:09 PM

I watched part one of Clinton this morning. I liked it, although I remember some things differently than they do. For example, they didn't mention the huge break Clinton got when Perot dropped out the race very day he accepted the nomination. I also don't think the second debate was quite the watershed they claimed. From the exchange they showed, I remember people attacking Bush for looking at hiswatch than praising Clinton.


This. All I remembered during that time, was the news media going on and on how then President Bush looked at his watch. I certainly don't remember the woman in red asking her question.

I accidentally forgot to record part II, but it re-aired at 1:30 a.m., so I have something to see when I get home tonight.

I don't know if it's my bias (I was totally Pro-Clinton, loved him, warts and all and still do), but the clips of his speeches during the '92 campaign...I don't know, even though it's years past, I felt that hope and energy--just from watching something from the past--but I've been so cynical and not giving a shit about the politicians that have come across my screen since.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well, but it saddened me that I just can't care today.

I was hoping to see George Stephanopolous on this, but maybe he shows up in Part II?

And I couldn't help but roll my eyes at Dick Morris, was it? Wasn't he the same person who basically lambasted the Clintons after Hillary wrote her book? I just seem to recall him holding them both in contempt, yet he came across as President Clinton's biggest fans here.

I don't think the doc is being overly praising of him, though. They seem to be showing him, warts and all. It's really good, and I'm looking forward to the rest of it tonight. I wouldn't even mind an additional night of this.


I agree. I usually don't watch stuff like this, but this one has me hooked and really, I wish there were a Part III, because there's so much more I want to see.
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#187

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Posted Feb 22, 2012 @ 3:16 PM

But Ross Perot had dug his own grave by that time. He dropped out of and re-entered the race, and even without all the crazy he brought to his campaign and the national stage, that alone lost him a lot of followers.


Perot hadn't already dug his grave -- he was ahead of both Bush and Clinton at the time. Clinton got a huge bounce after that: here's what the NY Times says. Anyway, my point was that omitting Perot's impact on the '92 campaign was a huge oversight.

Part 2 was fine, but I would have liked something on Clinton's post-presidency, especially his role in the 2008 campaign. Maybe it's too early for that.

Edited by Zzingerific, Feb 22, 2012 @ 3:20 PM.

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#188

prairiegal

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Posted Feb 22, 2012 @ 3:31 PM

Really fascinating. I was, and still am, a huge supporter of President Clinton. When he shows up on Letterman, or other shows, for an interview, the depth of his knowledge on domestic and world affairs is amazing.He's a brilliant man, which made his stupidity regarding "that woman"during his second term so much more frustrating to me-how could such a bright man be such a dumb guy?
Regardless, I love the man and really enjoyed watching these past two nights.
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#189

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Feb 22, 2012 @ 3:55 PM

Really fascinating. I was, and still am, a huge supporter of President Clinton. When he shows up on Letterman, or other shows, for an interview, the depth of his knowledge on domestic and world affairs is amazing.He's a brilliant man, which made his stupidity regarding "that woman"during his second term so much more frustrating to me-how could such a bright man be such a dumb guy?
Regardless, I love the man and really enjoyed watching these past two nights.


Same here. I swear, if he could run for a third term I would so vote for him. Despite his womanizing and affairs, he was a good president.
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#190

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Posted Feb 22, 2012 @ 4:35 PM

I agree. I usually don't watch stuff like this, but this one has me hooked and really, I wish there were a Part III, because there's so much more I want to see.

Have you had a chance to see The War Room? It's so interesting to watch the process kind of in real time, as a contrast to the 20-year (20 years????!!) perspective we have now.

It was funny to hear someone on part I reference Clinton's cheap watch. At the time of his inauguration, I was in the military, and remembered noting that he was wearing the same Ironman watch we all had. I don't know why that always stayed with me, but it was just funny to hear someone else bring that up, all these years later.
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#191

Major Misfit

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Posted Feb 22, 2012 @ 6:54 PM

Really fascinating. I was, and still am, a huge supporter of President Clinton. When he shows up on Letterman, or other shows, for an interview, the depth of his knowledge on domestic and world affairs is amazing.He's a brilliant man, which made his stupidity regarding "that woman"during his second term so much more frustrating to me-how could such a bright man be such a dumb guy?

Fan here as well. But Clinton couldn't ever seem to keep it in his pants. But my name isn't Hillary Clinton so his behavior doesn't affect me. I don't care about any politician's sex life - they're politicians, not the pope.

It wasn't until I got through the fourth hour of this show did I fully realize the absolute zeal with which the Republicans pursued Clinton. And it's not like I don't remember being horrified by the impeachment, but MY. GOD. Forced to look back on that time in history again, I was even more horrified than ever that it got to that point. I remember the derision thrown at Hillary by the press after went on the Today Show during the Lewinsky issue and claimed it was all a "vast right-wing conspiracy." It totally was. (Harry Thomason, who was also interviewed, made a masterful documentary about that called "The Hunting of the President".) It is a testament to the intellect of Americans that, despite all the Republicans efforts to bring down Bill Clinton, he remained ridiculously popular and beloved. Kenneth Starr is a piece of shit.

There was a point in this show where someone had said, maybe it was after Clinton had broken down in tears after a woman in a town hall meeting told him she couldn't afford the drugs she needed to stay alive, that when you met Bill Clinton and he looked you in the eye, it was as if he was present in that moment and really felt and understood you. A friend of mine met him (not sure whether it was post presidency or during) and said exactly the same thing.

I love, love, love American Experience docs about the presidents. The Nixon and Johnson ones are still my favorites, but this was quite good as well.
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#192

prairiegal

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Posted Feb 22, 2012 @ 8:46 PM

Absolute zeal with which the Republicans persued Clinton


I know, right? It was so obviously a witch hunt mentality,even friends of mine who had no use for Clinton were disgusted with Kenneth Starr and his tactics.
A friend of mine went to a rally in Dayton, Ohio when President Clinton was campaigning for his second term and got to meet him, and he also said that when he shook hands with him, it seemed as if the President was with him alone, and the sheer force of his personality was startling.
Major Misfit, I agree with you that any politician's sex life is his own business, my comment was based on the old adage:"You don't s--t where you eat".I'm just glad that he and Hilary were able to work through it and come out on the other side still together.
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#193

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Feb 23, 2012 @ 7:37 AM

It wasn't until I got through the fourth hour of this show did I fully realize the absolute zeal with which the Republicans pursued Clinton. And it's not like I don't remember being horrified by the impeachment, but MY. GOD. Forced to look back on that time in history again, I was even more horrified than ever that it got to that point. I remember the derision thrown at Hillary by the press after went on the Today Show during the Lewinsky issue and claimed it was all a "vast right-wing conspiracy." It totally was. (Harry Thomason, who was also interviewed, made a masterful documentary about that called "The Hunting of the President".) It is a testament to the intellect of Americans that, despite all the Republicans efforts to bring down Bill Clinton, he remained ridiculously popular and beloved. Kenneth Starr is a piece of shit.


WAH! For some reason, Part II didn't record for me. It seems that they're only repeating the first part. Although it's airing again late tonight? And I'm recording it, hoping it's the conclusion.

And I bolded your last sentence because truer words were never spoken. Like you, Major Misfit, I don't care about politician's sex lives. As long as Clinton did his job, and he did, very well, despite/inspite? of the roadblocks and hatred, and most importantly, when he left office, we were in a surplus, yes?

Anyone know if this is available to view online? I ask because it's on PBS, and I don't know if their shows are available online.
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#194

Major Misfit

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Posted Feb 23, 2012 @ 7:56 AM

when he left office, we were in a surplus, yes?

We sure were!

Anyone know if this is available to view online? I ask because it's on PBS, and I don't know if their shows are available online.

Fortunately, nearly all PBS programs are available online. You can watch the entire documentary here.
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#195

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Feb 23, 2012 @ 11:54 AM

nearly all PBS programs are available online. You can watch the entire documentary here.


Thanks Major Misfit!

It is one of my many regrets that I never got to meet Clinton.
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#196

Morbs

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Posted Feb 23, 2012 @ 3:19 PM

It boggles my mind that the American people were able to see through the Republican mean spirited and nasty bullshit during the impeachment and federal government shutdown. Where did these people go? I think these were the same people who gave Seinfeld great ratings, but now all truly great comedies struggle in the ratings.
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#197

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Posted Feb 23, 2012 @ 10:58 PM

Just watched part two of this on the DVR tonight and I almost cried when it was over. The 90's were a great time for me personally, so even re-living the bad times in his administration was a treat. I thought this was a good, balanced look at a very complex and brilliant man.
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#198

prairiegal

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Posted Feb 24, 2012 @ 11:51 AM

Ii thought that it was an interesting choice to air "Nancy Reagan:The Role Of A Lifetime" prior to part one of the Clinton show.I hadn't seen that one before and found it informative as well. I had more respect for Mrs Reagan after they left the White House,and love that she pushed President Bush so hard to go forward with stem cell research.Good for her.Whatever problems I had with Ronald Reagan as President, and there was a lot to find fault with,I can't deny that they deeply loved and supported each other.
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#199

dagny

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Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 10:41 AM

I guess the 90s weren't that long in the past for me. Everytime one person or another popped up on my screen, I was shouting at them that they were low down dirty bums. I couldn't watch the last half hour of the second installment, I was too angry.
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#200

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Posted Sep 18, 2012 @ 8:02 PM

Bump as there is a new episode tonight about the Civil War. I would have never known except that I watched Harvard's president on last night's Colbert promoting it.
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#201

Charlotte Vale

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Posted Sep 19, 2012 @ 12:50 PM

That was a breath-taking special, I love the Burns Boys. People writing letters home while they were bleeding to death! I can't even answer the phone if I have a paper cut. I was glad one historian made the point about the missing WTC bodies from 9/11--people today are so shocked when they have no remains to bury, but that used to be the norm. People died in shipwrecks, wars, plagues, and their families just never heard from them again and never knew what happened to them, let alone got bodies to bury.
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#202

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Sep 19, 2012 @ 1:23 PM

Damn! I missed it.

Will it be re-aired again?
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#203

SummerSands

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Posted Sep 19, 2012 @ 2:15 PM

My guide shows several showings for tomorrow, then no more (now I feel like I'm talking like the show!).

It was very good, yet very dark. Be in the right mood for it, because it's a tough one.

Thank you so much for the bump - glad I didn't miss it!
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#204

walnutqueen

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Posted Sep 19, 2012 @ 2:52 PM

Scorpiosrule - my local PBS station is re-airing this tonight (tomorrow morning at 1:00 a.m.) and again Sunday night (Mon. 9/24 at 2:00 a.m.). You can also watch the full episode on the PBS website - link

This was one of the most powerful and moving documentaries I've seen. I learned so much, and it made me think about things I'd never even contemplated before. It was very poignant and ever so eloquent. Must see TV for all Americans (and educational for us Canucks, too).
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#205

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Sep 19, 2012 @ 5:13 PM

Thanks SummerSands and walnutqueen!

I love this period of our history and after watching the interview on The Colbert Report, I wanted to see it.

Even after all these years, and taking so many history classes, and watching movies (hello! North and South!),
I still can't wrap my brain around the fact that we as Americans, killed each other, as if the North and the South were different countries.
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#206

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Posted Sep 19, 2012 @ 8:54 PM

What saddened me the most was what little value was placed on human life, especially that of the soldiers. To think that someone's son or husband or father was left to rot on a field or was piled body on top of body in mass graves with no consideration to next of kin who were left to wonder forever where their loved one lay.
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#207

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Posted Sep 20, 2012 @ 12:52 AM

I'm going to burn in hell, but I turned this episode off before it finished, bored stiff. And then they died, more died, and they died, and then there was death...

It just seemed to beat the same point into the ground for way too long. They quickly mentioned the advent of embalming with the war, but moved right on. I've seen that story in a Lincoln documentary, and it's very interesting and has had a profound effect on our American lifestyle until today.

I did find the poet/undertaker to be an fascinating talking head.
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#208

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Posted Sep 22, 2012 @ 10:35 PM

"Death and the Civil War" was fantastic. Another great work by the Burns boys. I learned a lot from watching this and reading comments from the filmmakers prior to the airing. I never understood before that the country didn't have its act together in terms of taking care of its war dead (and injured) prior to the Civil War. What was heartbreaking was that North and South were still so angry with each other after the war that they didn't try to properly take care of the other side's dead. As a Christian and particularly a Catholic, I believe that once someone's dead, it no longer matters what they've done in life or that they were an enemy; they should be properly buried in a respectful manner.
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#209

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Posted Sep 24, 2012 @ 4:44 PM

Guess my original post got lost in the server issues.

"Death and the Civil War" was fantastic. I never understood before how much the Government was so not ready for massive casualties and how to handle them. I guess the rituals of National cemeteries and notifying the next of kin had to start somewhere. I think what disturbed me almost as much as the bungling was both sides continuing to be so mad at each other that they couldn't be bothered to properly care for each others dead. As a Catholic, that disturbs me because I was raised to show respect towards the dead and their remains, no matter what they did in their lives.
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#210

dagny

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Posted Sep 24, 2012 @ 6:16 PM

I'm going to burn in hell, but I turned this episode off before it finished, bored stiff. And then they died, more died, and they died, and then there was death...

right there with you.

The thought that kept also playing in my mind was what about all of the other brutal wars that happened over the eons and across continents? There were other massive wars before the American Civil War.
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