3055 replies to this topic

[Shadowfax32]

Geraldine McEwan stars in four two-part "Miss Marple" puzzlers.  First up:  "Murder At The Vicarage."  The victim:  an imperious magistrate (Derek Jacobi) who's widely despised.

[Lacrimosa Dies]

I can't stand this new spinster. She's too... twee? The old Miss Marple was just a nosey old woman who didn't try to be so damn cute. Bleh. Although, I must say that I haven't the foggiest idea who the culprit is. But yet at the same time there were too many people who looked alike in my opinion, and i got lost.

[JeanPoole]

She's too....twee?

ITA...and self-consciously twinkly too. It's almost as if the director said, "Look twinkly and smile now." Message received...once too often.

I have no idea who the culprit is either but I figured the French poseurs were far too obvious, the wife appeared to be in a clinch, and the daughter? I guess I'll find out next week. According to a pal who saw all four of the new Marples, "A Murder is Announced" was the best of the lot.

[indigo4]

We don't know much about the redhead aside from the fact that she is new to town and has some link to the late Colonel.

And that she's played by Jane Asher, Paul McCartney's girlfriend in the early 1960s, and sister to Peter Asher, Peter of Peter & Gordon and big-time record producer.

I enjoyed last night's episode, too. Back in the 60s and 70s I read all the Agatha Christie books several times and could almost never remember whodunit -- that's how they're written. But I like the settings and the atmosphere and this production is capturing that. I don't mind this Miss Marple, but I liked Joan Hickson the best.

[momtoall]

I don't mind this Miss Marple, but I liked Joan Hickson the best.

ITA. I thought it was me, glad to see other were having a problem telling the characters apart.

[Cassie]

Joan Hickson was absolutely perfect for the part.

I'm still enjoying this, although the new backstory for Miss Marple just seems so... unnecessary. I just a total sucker for these period imports, and recognizing all the British H!ITG!s. Plus, Derek Jacobi and Janet McTeer! Awesome.

[sofa addicted]

I wonder why the time period was changed from 1930 to what appears to be the mid-fifties. I'd rather have had it set as it is in the book, in that period between the two wars when that whole English lifestyle was in its final years.

I agree that Miss Marple is a bit too twinkly and that creating a backstory for her is pointless and somewhat annoying. Since I've really read about Miss M more than seen her portrayed on TV or in movies, I always picture her as a being more like an old hawk than an old wren.

I do think the production is keeping close to the plot of the book despite the change in decades, and so there should be lots of satisfying twists and turns before the killer is revealed. The Murder at the Vicarage was the first AC work featuring Miss Marple, though she wasn't the main character. The action was seen through the eyes of the vicar, and he and his wife weren't always complimentary about the nosy old woman.

[Milz]

I don't mind the series so far. I didn't watch the original Marples on Mystery! in the 80s so I don't have anything to compare it too.

Are you sure the time frame was changed from the 30s to the 50s?

[LTVChp11]

Yes, time frame was changed to the 1950's, which is a little off-putting. While any Miss Marple is better than no Miss Marple, I too find the backstory a bit off. Why do we need to know about a failed WWI romance of Miss Marple; I would prefer more mystery about why Miss Marple is the way she is.

[spacedog]

I wonder why the time period was changed from 1930 to what appears to be the mid-fifties.

That's interesting. I've never read any of the books; and growing up watching the Joan Hickson series, which is also set in the late-'40s through the mid-'50s, I didn't realize that stories were meant to take place in an earlier period.

I didn't watch the original Marples on Mystery! in the 80s so I don't have anything to compare it too.

That may be an advantage because I found myself constantly comparing the events from the '80s series to the new series. Like so many others, I don't care for the backstory, and I find McEwan's interpretation of Miss Marple not very interesting. She's shown observing all the goings on of the village, but she really doesn't seem to capture the "taking everything in" quality in the same way that Hickson did. In spite of all the faults, I am enjoying seeing some of the other actors. Someone praised Jason Flemyng in the Masterpiece Theatre thread. I can't recall his character's name, but Flemyng's performance has made the artist the most interesting character so far, IMO.

Edited by spacedog, Apr 19, 2005 @ 9:51 AM.

[Pooki]

Back in the 60s and 70s I read all the Agatha Christie books several times and could almost never remember whodunit -- that's how they're written.

Well, in the new series they've changed some of the culprits, so even if someone does remember the originals, it doesn't necesarily mean they'll know whodunnit.

I find Geraldine McEwan a little too twinkly too (I much preferred Joan Hickson, and Margaret Rutherford in the old 60s movies for the campness), but I didn't mind the backstory for Miss Marple - it goes some way to explain how an old village spinster would know so much about the ways of the heart.

I'm pretty sure though that all the Miss Marple stories are set in the late 40s/early 50s - so many of them (like the 4:50 From Paddington and The Body In The Library) feature male characters, most of them not that old, who'd served in the Second World War.

[M. Darcy]

I was bad and picked up the book yesterday (but am good that I haven't cheated and read it yet). It was written in the 30s - it was actually the first Miss Marple book.

[ssleight]

I'm so happy we started a Mystery! thread. Although I can't say I understood the complaint someone made, over the the Masterpiece Theater thread, that we shouldn't be discussing mysteries there when Mystery! IS Masterpiece Theater for the summer. There does seem to be some big deal about starting multiple threads for non-summarized programs. (You can see that some of the shows in this section have a thousand pages of comments, but televisionwithoutpity will not allow separate threads for the separate episodes.)

Anyway, just so I can stay on topic: wasn't that the most sumptuous summer ever seen in England? (And yet an English friend of mine, years ago, used to comment about beautiful evenings in Washington D.C., where we lived at the time, that such evenings came about twice a century in England. Suppose the precise location in England would make a difference.)

Am I the only one who thought it looked like deeply slanted sunlight (i.e., dusk or dawn) throughout much of the program?

The PBS Web site has a small discussion forum and someone posted this link, with some interesting background on the program: CNN

Edited by ssleight, Apr 19, 2005 @ 2:53 PM.

[Cress]

Yeah, I'm glad that we got a separate thread. It was non-intuitive for me to remember to check the Masterpiece Theatre thread to talk about Mystery!

I think the mod's point was that even though the two shows use the same timeslot (at different times of the year), they still are separate shows.

I don't understand why they felt the need to give backstory to Miss Marple either. It seemed unnecessary.

Edited by Cress, Apr 19, 2005 @ 5:31 PM.

[JeanPoole]

Knocks self hard on forehead! Geraldine McEwan: Magdalene Sisters! If you've ever seen that film (released 2002?), you know McEwan has it in her to be one nasty sister! I would like to see more of that edge in Marple.
That said, we haven't seen too much of the dear lady yet because Part I was all about the set-up and she was quite passive. I assume she'll get down to a bit more business in Part II and do something other than watch and twinkle.

Edited by JeanPoole, Apr 19, 2005 @ 7:27 PM.

[LTVChp11]

I hope you are right, [/B]JeanPoole[B], because in rewatching Part 1, Miss Marple was just too sweet. Miss Marple should have a little more vinegar in her personality.

[sofa addicted]

I'm pretty sure though that all the Miss Marple stories are set in the late 40s/early 50s - so many of them (like the 4:50 From Paddington and The Body In The Library) feature male characters, most of them not that old, who'd served in the Second World War.

Are you sure the war isn't WWI? The Body in the Library was published in 1942. I've always thought that Agatha Christie always kept the Miss Marple mysteries set in the thirties no matter when she actually wrote them, because otherwise MM would be ancient by the time of the last book, which was 1976. Part of AC's basic description of MM was that her Victorian upbringing gave her certain ways of looking at things, so for her to be a "lady of a certain age" (70, when she made her first appearance in Vicarage) required freezing time in St Mary Mead. However, the stage adaptation of Murder in the Vicarage came along in 1949 and maybe that's why this production is set around that time.

Here is how Agatha Christie described her creation:

Miss Marple is not in any way a picture of my grandmother; she is far more fussy and spinsterish than my grandmother ever is. But one thing she did have in common with her -- though a cheerful person, she always expected the worst of everyone and everything, and is, with almost frightening accuracy, usually proved right."

[Shadowfax32]

As "Murder At The Vicarage" concludes, Miss Marple (Geraldine McEwan) and Inspector Slack (Stephen Tomlinson) have two confessions to choose from.

[Endeavour]

Just caught up with the first episode. So far, I'm liking it. I haven't read any of the books yet, but I did see some of the other shows.

That said, we haven't seen too much of the dear lady yet because Part I was all about the set-up and she was quite passive. I assume she'll get down to a bit more business in Part II and do something other than watch and twinkle.

I agree we'll have a better idea tonight as she'll have more to do. Although, I'm not minding her portrayal of Miss Marple.

It was nice to see Derek Jacobi and to see Father Clifford (Stephen Tompkinson) of Ballykissangel make an appearance.

[indigo4]

Because her writing spanned many decades, AC must have been influenced by many things, including both world wars. But she began writing in the 20s and 30s and many of her books reflect post WWI England. England lost a significant portion of its male population in the Great War and that's why AC's books have a lot of widows and spinsters -- women who were raised to be wives, but whose husbands or prospects were killed in the war. Women without vocation who found themselves living and growing old in genteel poverty and dependent on relatives or on jobs like being a lady's companion ("Death on the Nile"). It took a generation to replenish the male population. So the Miss Marple backstory is relevant and informative, though it wasn't in the book and wastes time in the TV production.

I'm looking forward to tonight!

[elle]

So the Miss Marple backstory is relevant and informative, though it wasn't in the book and wastes time in the TV production.

Was the backstory in any of the books?

[indigo4]

I didn't like the second half of this very well. That actress playing Miss Marple was really bugging me. She wasn't very convincing -- all mannerisms and no character. Also, that gallows stuff at the end was way over the top. And I couldn't understand the expression on Miss Marple's face at the end when she was sitting in the church, but it seemed wrong.

I know I'll keep watching these though, cause I've read all the books, I like seeing the clothes and settings and actors, and it's fun to dish about it here.

[Milz]

I fell asleep and Mr. Milz didn't watch it for me. Whodunit?

[M. Darcy]

It was the artist and the Colonel's wife. They made it seem as if it was too obvious it was them but it was them. They knew each other before the war but he was MIA. She got married and then found out he was alive.

And, I guessed it before Miss Marple said who done it! As soon as the artist tried to kill the stealin' clergyman, I knew it.

Aw, a little Lord Percy is on its way. Its still strange seeing Father Peter without his collar.

Edited by M. Darcy, Apr 25, 2005 @ 9:06 AM.

[isiscloud]

I can't stand this new spinster. She's too... twee?

I didn’t like her at all. She seemed a little to frowsy and not well enough put together and not nosy enough. Joan Hickson was perfect. The age still doesn’t add up for the WWI connection. If it were a different war, perhaps. She knows the reasons for the murders not because she's had certain experiences, but that people in St. Mary Mead have had experiences and that show that people's action are universal, whether in a small town or a large city.

Also, why would they change the person who committed the crime? To satisfy people who read the book? Sorry, I like the original (not that I remember who actually did it in this case). To satisfy people who haven’t read the book? Was it done for effect? Who decides to change it?

I know I'll keep watching these though, cause I've read all the books, I like seeing the clothes and settings and actors, and it's fun to dish about it here.

If I can remember I'll watch.

[Milz]

What was the deal with the Frenchman and his granddaughter? I told Mr. Milz last week I didn't think she was his granddaughter....

[Endeavour]

And I couldn't understand the expression on Miss Marple's face at the end when she was sitting in the church, but it seemed wrong.

This bothered me as well. It looked like she was smirking to me. She had that same expression when she was in the sidecar on the motorcycle. I guess she was smiling/thinking about her lost love, but it just looked wrong cut in with the scenes of the hangings.

What was the deal with the Frenchman and his granddaughter?

I'm sure someone can do a much better job of explaining, but here goes. The Frenchman's son was engaged to the woman that was there with him. They knew the colonel from the war. There was some kind of deal struck with the colonel where he betrayed them for money. The girl and Frenchman's son were waiting in a field (or something) for a package to be dropped. The plane flew by them and dropped the package a mile away (which the colonel arranged). The girl managed to get away, but the Frenchman's son was tortured and killed. They were snooping around the house for evidence of this which they found.

I felt a little let down by the conclusion, although I'm not sure why because I didn't figure it out.

Edited by Endeavour, Apr 25, 2005 @ 5:50 PM.

[sofa addicted]

No, the age and time frame still aren't right for WWI, but to be real charitable to this production, if Miss Marple is 70 and it's the early fifties, I can say it was the Boer War.

I think the church/hanging was supposed to reveal that, as Agatha Christie had said, Miss Marple always thought the worst of people and was often frighteningly correct. I figured she was saying a prayer for them even as she thought they were coming to their just end.

The actual murderers weren't changed, but the whole thing about the Frenchman and his assistant was, to incorporate all the WW2 French resistance explanation. Another change that wouldn't have been necessary if they'd left the setting in its 1930 original form. I believe in the book they were there posing as archeologists to steal some valuable 17th century candlesticks from The Hall. There was a passing reference to this when they were apprehended in this version; the inspector said something like "what do you have there, the silver?"

I actually liked the interpretation of Miss Marple more in the second half, especially the way she watched everyone. Ms Christie used the term "birdlike" to describe it, and I thought the bright beady curious eyes were exactly what she meant. I think it's important to remember that this was the first appearance of Jane Marple and her character wasn't nearly as developed as it would be in later works, so it's not really surprising that some of our favorite Marple-y characteristics aren't obvious in Vicarage.

The way she appeared as a young woman in the backstory kept reminding me of the Flonase commercials with the "film noir" woman. I kept expecting her to ask for a refill on her nasal spray.

[JeanPoole]

Having read the books long ago, the whodunit portion of the story is always secondary to how Marple figures it out. I can live with the Marple time machine putting the setting in the 50's. What I found dissonant was the varying acting styles in this.
Some of the actors, McTeer and McInnerny come to mind, just played characters you believed. Other actors (you know who you are!) pretty much bought in to the ham-fest atmosphere and decided to chew on all the scenery. When you have so many talented guest stars, it IS a way to be noticed but it completely gets the viewer out of the story and into the performance. Not always a good thing.

I didn't find Marple as irritatingly twinkly in Part-deux, but I found myself having Vincent D'Onofrio flashbacks and it's why I find it difficult to watch Law & Order: CI...he just works too hard Acting, with a capital A! McEwan is doing the same thing.

"A Murder is Announced" comes recommended as the best of the lot, so I'll watch the next couple to see if twinkle toes can lose a bit of spark.