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#3781

va32h

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Posted Jul 10, 2008 @ 12:07 PM

I see that Burn Notice has it's own forum now. I don't know how TWOP makes these decisions, but it really stinks that The Closer is still relegated to a single thread after three years (and far more viewers).
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#3782

ladynightblade

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Posted Jul 11, 2008 @ 9:28 AM

Ah, yes, but the Burn Notice has explosions, bikinis, and a hot guy in it. Clearly they have more to discuss.
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#3783

Neonstar

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Posted Jul 13, 2008 @ 6:55 AM

The Closer would deserve its own section, I agree.

Meanwhile, here's a great interview with Jon Tenney, who play Fritz Howard.

http://passtheremote...-fritz-aka.html
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#3784

GG63

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Posted Jul 13, 2008 @ 10:23 PM

Looks like we're going to get the next season about a week late up here in Canada. Yahoo! Starchoice has some new channels they've added 616 - 619 and either 616 or 617 looks like it'll be starting season 4 very soon. They're going to have a marathon of season 3 on July 22 I believe (just saw a little preview) and then the next season looks like it'll follow.

Great news - as I managed to watch some of season 3 before the DVD's came out and then did my own little marathon when I got them.
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#3785

ILNative

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:19 AM

Ok, I just finished watching the Season 3 DVDs. I agree with the posters upthread that it paled in comparison to the first two. The Christmas episode was so horrible I couldn't even finish it. The way Brenda treated her parents was bad enough, but the look on her face when her father called her on her shit? That was IT for me. She can't see an inch in front of her face and when she does, it's a mirror. Everything reflects on her and her alone. No one else. If you get in her way -- family, friends and criminals -- she's going to run right over you.

The way she treats Fritz and her parents disgusts me. She talks to him like a dog, with the 'Fritzi' and the expecting him to just do what she says full stop. She never considers him or does anything for him, she just demands and takes and uses.


Amen.

To me, this episode made Brenda Leigh the textbook caricature of a loose female cannon. Nothing but one irrational choice following another, all made with full throttle histrionics. Thanks for setting the case for a powerful, passionate female in charge back about 30 years, writers.


Ditto.

I'll watch tonight, but only for the supporting cast. And to wait for Brenda's comeuppance.
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#3786

va32h

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 11:05 AM

I had much the same feelings about the Christmas episode; that Brenda is ruthless, deplorable, selfish, hypocritical and treats everyone like crap.

But then I thought...well hasn't she always been that way?

In the first season, she manipulated the situation so that the guy who killed the Russian hooker got murdered by his mob family. A few episodes later, she condemned a teenager to life in a Mexican prison. In both cases, she was fulfilling her personal idea of justice. She routinely blackmails her suspects into confessing - remember the judge's ex wife with the autistic son?

I really wish Gabriel had called her on that after the "Ruby" episode, when she got all self-righteous and told him he didn't "get to decide" what should happen to the suspects...she decides all the time!

And she has always treated Fritz like garbage, demanding his help, ignoring the fact that he has his own job, having zero regard for his feelings, opinions, likes or dislikes (and I blame Fritz for sticking with the relationship when it's obvious that she is always going to treat him this way).

Brenda is not, and really hasn't ever been, a very nice person.

I still love the show though - and I suppose it's a credit to the show that I like it even when the lead character is so very unlikable.
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#3787

Elais

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 9:15 PM

I certainly don't think Brenda is an awful character. Sure she treats Fritz badly, but I don't see her as being such an Ogre of epic proportions. I STRONGLY disagree with that kind of characterization.

Tonight's episode is a good example of Brenda Behaving Badly towards Fritz. But I saw none of the ruthlessness, treating everyone like crap behavior that some others see.
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#3788

AimingforYoko

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 9:16 PM

Well, you thought you had the mysteries solved by noting the guest star? (Known as the Murder, She Wrote gambit.) Well, we'll give you two! Gotta say, didn't see Brian Krause as the killer. Nice misdirection. Well, it's a shame we won't be seeing Kroelick anymore, but he's off to NYC....and thirty years in the past.
And what's going on between Daniels and Gabriel?
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#3789

va32h

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 9:23 PM

I figured it wouldn't be Kroelick because that would have been too obvious. The episode went by really fast; when they were arresting the firefighter I had to check the clock because I thought surely it couldn't be that close to the end of the hour.

From the way Daniels emphasized the dead girl's needy behavior, always wanting to know where her boyfriends were and what they were doing (with a sideways glance at Gabriel), I'd guess that he's the clingy one in that relationship.

As an aside, I read that the actress who plays Daniels just turned 42, which I would never have guessed, she looks much younger.

Anyway, I was shocked and pleased that Brenda took responsibility for talking to the landlord about Kitty, although it would have been terribly amusing to have Kitty live in the murder room.

Edited by va32h, Jul 14, 2008 @ 9:24 PM.

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#3790

ladynightblade

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 9:36 PM

This will probably turn out to be way, waaaay wrong, but for a second I wondered if Daniels was pregnant. It was just something that occurred to me after the smirk he put on when Brenda asked him if there was something wrong. But I'm going to assume I'm mucho off base and that he was laughing at her.

Usually I don't mind the way Brenda treats Fritz, but in this episode I found myself thinking "Dude, grow a pair and tell her to chill the fuck out". Plus the fact that he thought buying and lighting two candles was incredibly romantic tells me he's been tortured far too long. Hopefully next episode they'll fix this, because I love me some Brenda/Fritzness. Also by then I hope she'll have thrown those candles out...
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#3791

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 9:44 PM

Will be sad to see the deliciously creepy and oddly charismatic Kroelic gone. Understandable since he can't stick around forever, as giving Brenda a Moriarty figure would be a bad idea I think, but I thought they had fabulous chemistry.

The annoying reporter who almost bungles an investigation for the resentful detectives bit was a cliche, but I still liked what they did with it. Sanchez tossing 'Ricky' around like a ragdoll was great. And Taylor was twenty kinds of awesome when he got in the guy's face. Damn the writers for making me like Taylor! I love the grudging 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' relationship he has with Brenda now. Especially since I'm still always a little on edge waiting for him to screw her over.

More Fritzi is a saint cakes. Could take it or leave it. The more they show Fritz have to talk Brenda down from some tizzy or patiently put up with her neurosis, the less I care if they make it to the alter.

The contrast between Brenda's interaction with Fritz and every other male character is so jarring! I understand the point is that their wuv is so true that she can show her vulnerable side with him, but all it does is make me watch her scenes with the other males: Flynn, Pope, Kroelik, hell even Gabriel (awww, she called him David! Clearly a manipulation for personal info, but still sweet) and go 'Hmmmmm.'

Yeah, that's right. I said it. A very tiny shameful part of me thinks that underneath Gabriel's respect and slight awe/fear for Chief Johnson there might be an itty bitty crush. And that it would be a horrible, horrible mistake if anything should ever come of it, but also really hot. He's so eager to please! Don't get me started on what I'd be willing to do for Flynn to grab Brenda one day and just lay a huge knee melting kiss on her.

Not looking forward to whatever shitstorm is on the horizen with Daniels and Gabriel. Especially since it seems the writers are setting it up that Gabriel is some kind of overprotective/super-possesive/somehow in the wrong freak. Which is so totally out of character since he is obviously absolutely fine with strong women *cough* Brenda *cough* And if they make Gabriel the bad guy in the relationship when it seems Daniels is being the bitchy unprofessional one, I'm going to be annoyed. This is why you don't date people you work with!...says the girl who has secretly been looking frantically for any possible Flynn/Brenda pairing Closer fan fic ever since the episode he complimented her legs.
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#3792

Stellarbee

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 9:51 PM

Wow, ladynightblade, I was just about to add that very same thought! I have a strong (spoiler-free) hunch that Daniels is pregnant. The way Gabriel didn't want her carrying the box, and then his grin when talking to Brenda were big hints. I hope we're right.

As for Brenda, well, I have to agree with what most of you all are saying because she treats people like crap. A lot. But without all her character flaws I wouldn't enjoy her, or this show, so much.

And can we bring Jason O'Mara back soon please? He's so, so pretty.
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#3793

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:06 PM

Tonight's episode: I liked that they didn't try to go all out with Big! Exciting!Season!Premiere! Yeah, a fire, but this show has handled race riots, possible terrorist threats, etc., so this was just one more crisis. Personally I thought that they were a bit heavy-handed with the fire/heat puns, but obviously Croelick was trying and succeeding to freak people out. Great casting, great performance, but I also agree with Francie Nolan that he doesn't need to come back. Leave him out loose and it's a great unease at the back of our minds, try to turn him into Moriarty and the chances of screwing up skyrocket exponentially *cough*Nicole Wallace!*cough*

I also loved Taylor getting in the reporter's face. Tao's matter-of-fact aid to Brenda with the fingerprinting (ewww!) "OK, Chief, I got it, just look at Gabriel..." Buzz's quiet efficiency locating "anybody admiring their handiwork". Sanchez actually picking up the reporter was a bit excessive, but I loved the slamming desks and floor, complete with glare. (And what made that was Brenda not even looking up from the notes.) Actually my favorite reaction to reporter moment was "Put down my mother's crucifix and get out of my chair!"

I hate how the only way for Fritz to get through to Brenda is to go heavy-handed. Lugging Kitty and the mess all the way to the office? Like somebody wouldn't have stopped him on the way up. I'm not sure they're ready to be married at this stage, it's all they can do to have important conversations, but I guess the writers are gonna milk this change and stress for all its worth. If handled well, it could be great and true relationship life.

Daniels/Gabriel: I think it's both ways here as to lapses. Gabriel rushing to the box and kind of pushing it at the beginning is a little excessive. But I don't think Daniels needed to get quite so annoyed when he cut in to the multi-threat definition. Everybody in this squad cuts in on each others sentences all the time, but maybe she felt more of a "Don't undermine me at work I've had enough trouble just being a chick." Stuff like this does screw with team dynamics, but I hope everybody can be a grown-up and resolve it peacefully in whatever form.
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#3794

Morningstar

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:10 PM

So happy that The Closer is back and as good as ever.
As soon as I so Brian Krause, I knew he would be the killer. Just did not know how or why.
Brenda's little striptease - darn, she looks good for a 45-years old.
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#3795

va32h

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:30 PM

Did anyone suffer through, I mean sit through, Saving Grace in order to catch the preview for next week?
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#3796

ladynightblade

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:35 PM

And could that brave, brave soul, please describe said preview in detail?
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#3797

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:36 PM

I switched over to Saving Grace for its last few minutes in order to catch the preview, but no preview for The Closer was shown -- just one for Grace. So either they're showing them in the middle of Saving Grace now (which would especially suck, as the final three minutes is enough for me), or they just dropped the ball.
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#3798

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:42 PM

So glad this show is back! (I guess this means that the huge Kyra billboard that greets me each morning when I run will soon be advertising something less attractive.) I too guessed that Leo would be the killer once he appeared, and that Daniels is pregnant (Gabriel was far too attentive for it to be anything else. Probably some friction as to how/whether to inform the team/Brenda.), but the episode still moved along really well, and played to the characters' strengths/weaknesses. I love that Brenda handles her job so well, and her personal life so poorly. Fritz is as long-suffering as ever (the gender of the cat thing was amusing), and that's probably the only type of guy who could work long-term with Brenda. Is it wrong to find an arsonist hot? Jason O'Mara makes a great recurring villain. Are we to really assume he won't be returning? I wanted Brenda and Fritz at least to check the place for a timed incendiary.
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#3799

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 10:58 PM

I may have just stuck my foot in my mouth--did Croelick actually show up in an earlier episode, making this his encore? I still haven't seen a lot of 1st Season and about half of second. How did it compare?

I can't see a Daniels pregnancy. Both Gabriel and Daniels strike me as careful types, and I think Gabriel at least wouldn't want to father a child outside of a committed, steady relationship. Maybe they just haven't shown as much of Daniels so it's harder to get her personality, but it doesn't seem likely that she'd want a baby just now. Not that they've given her much screen time/outside info, I'm not saying she's married to her job or anything, but a single mom trying to take care of a new baby while her paying job is a cop? That's pretty intense. Gabriel's watchfulness, I'd see him doing that with any girl he's dating regardless of a baby. He is a courteous gentleman, getting doors and such. The problem comes because while that may be all well and good on the dates, among their coworkers in a "tough" job it could lead to doubts, "Does he think Daniels can't handle it?" and all that. I think it's just overprotective guy/oversensitive girl and the work situation makes it a little harder to sort out.

If she is pregnant, though, and if they do go all the way to birth and such, I wanna see the squad get gooey. Maybe overplayed cliche having tough guys melt over a cute little baby, but I'd pay good money to see this group in action. (That team is also the only thing making me a bit excited about a Brenda/Fritz wedding, seeing the squad dancing and carrying on at the reception.)
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#3800

Wyn

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 11:20 PM

Well I guess I'll come down on the side of liking the season opener, but not being all that impressed with it. The case itself was okay, but due to that well known law of Conservation of Guest Stars I knew it was the firefighter* from the moment we saw that the Chief interacted with him. (I don't know why but it seems to me The Closer is really bad about this sort of thing, compared to other shows. But that just might be me.) Because it being Croelick was WAY to obvious. He seemed to be overacting the role a tad. I remember him from before being a bit more....calm and subtle in his actions/statements. This seemed too over the top for him. I guess it could be because he's leaving (for another time and place) and wanted to make a final impression for Brenda, but I don't know. And as for the reporter, yeah he's there to be annoying, but I will freely admit that I did love Taylor coming down on him for possibly ruining their case against Croelick - he was there the first time with Lt. Flynn - when they convicted him and was very unhappy when they had to let him go, so anything possibly ruining them putting the guy back behind bars would - rightfully so - get him ticked off. But to be fair to the Chief, the last time she had a reporter tagging along she didn't exactly have the greatest time....

Everyone else seemed in fine form. No clue what is up with Daniels/Gabriel, but the suggestion of a pregnancy isn't something I considered (but could make alot of sense based on the little we saw.) I loved how well everyone seemed to slip right back into their roles, although was it me or was Det. Sanchez a bit too aggressive? I don't remember him being willing to manhandle someone like that. Also, I wasn't aware that Lt. Provenza was Brenda's second in command (I thought Lt. Flynn was because he heads the terrorism task force), but I after him calmly getting Buzz to film the crowd, I can see why he is.

Wow Pope, you're actually standing up - a bit - to Brenda. Thank god. I got a little tired of how (IMO) she ran roughshod over him last season.

Fritz, you're a brave, brave man. Kudos to you for finally standing up to Brenda and make her take some of the responsibility of your new place (which seems kinda nice, but are apartments that large in L.A.?) And also: Hi Kitty!

And since I watched Saving Grace I think I did see a bit of the preview for next week. All I can say to Brenda is: Pot, this is kettle. The code word is "black".



*Brian Krause's character revealed to be a killer and arsonist. Then arrested (after being a dolt and admitting to starting the fire that killed four people) and probably sent to prison for the rest of his life. Damien, how did you get this done?
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#3801

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 11:23 PM

Will be sad to see the deliciously creepy and oddly charismatic Kroelic gone. Understandable since he can't stick around forever, as giving Brenda a Moriarty figure would be a bad idea I think, but I thought they had fabulous chemistry.


I don't know that we've seen the last of Kroelic. After all, he's still supposed to be out there, somewhere, and not brought to justice. I think the writers want to leave the possibility open of having Kroelic return because O'Mara has insane amounts of chemistry with Sedgewick. I have to wonder what that original casting notice read as. Something like, "misogynistic, homicidal, arsonist with good looks, a sense of humor and comedic flair". He's such a horrible, terrifying character and then the next moment, he's actually making me laugh with things like "I can see you agree."

I did realize it was the firefighter early on but since Brenda's interaction with Kroelic was more the point of the episode, I wasn't surprised that the mystery was very clear cut. The reporter was annoying, and only partially saved by the fun moment with Sanchez. Please never let the show depict something quite as gruesome as Brenda having to put on burn victims' skin for fingerprinting again though. That, by the way? One sentence I never thought I'd type in my entire life. Just plain old yuck.

Nice start to the season, and it's good to have the show back.
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#3802

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Posted Jul 14, 2008 @ 11:23 PM

Though I knew it was gonna happen, it still made me want to kick Brenda's butt when she didn't tell Fritz that the super-creepy-stalker-arsonist guy just walked out the back door after lighting candles in their house. She should have called for back up the minute she saw him.

You know that's gonna play out at some point.

When Fritz said he found Brenda's sweater that they hadn't seen in a while, did anybody else but me wonder if Croelick had had it for a while and just brought it back? The time line probably doesn't work, but I'd sure be wondering what the guy had been doing in my house prior to my arrival. Sniffing my undies? Installing web cams? Creeeepy.

Sidenote: Jason O'Mara is very pretty. I fell in love with him in 2001 in a BBC show called Monarch of the Glen. He was just a recurring character for a six episode arc in season two, but, most importantly, he goes skinny-dipping in the beautiful Scottish countryside in one of the six episodes. Yummy.

I did see the preview for next week, but I was distracted. Looks like Provenza may be in some hot water.
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#3803

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 8:15 AM

It's Flynn in hot water again. Something about a hit and run, a media frenzy and an ending "you won't see coming". I suffered through the first few minutes of Saving Grace just to see it. They're pulling the same trick they did with Heartland, and showing the previews after the first commercial break, which kind of surprised me. They did it to try to entice viewers to watch and I thought SG had a strong following. <shrug>
I enjoyed the premiere but was surprised to see commercials. This is the first time since the series started that the season premiere wasn't commercial free. I got used to it.
I think Gabriel and Daniels are fighting. When Brenda asked him if there were problems with the two of them, he looked guilty. He's not a very good liar. Daniels was also shooting daggers at him through the entire episode.
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#3804

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 8:25 AM

I wonder if there'll be any fallout from the article on Brenda and the gang.

And so glad Kitty's staying! As a card-carrying member of her Fan Club, I look for her cameos every week!
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#3805

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 8:51 AM

Also, I wasn't aware that Lt. Provenza was Brenda's second in command


Of the three Lieutenants, Provenza has the most seniority. That he's 2nd in command has come up before; if Brenda's not at the crime scene yet, he's the one giving out assignments and there was some episode where Brenda wasn't in the murder room for some reason and Pope asked Provenza to walk him through the case.

I definitely do not think Daniels is pregnant.

I found a summary for next week's episode: the case is about a recently paroled murdered who is the victim of a hit and run. (If Flynn's in trouble, I'd guess it was one of his old cases. Damn - did any of his old cases get handled correctly?). And Fritz throws his back out, which puts Brenda in the position of actually having to actually take care of him. The horror!
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#3806

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 9:22 AM

I loved how well everyone seemed to slip right back into their roles, although was it me or was Det. Sanchez a bit too aggressive? I don't remember him being willing to manhandle someone like that.

IDK about that. To me, Sanchez in particular has always seemed like the one most likely to open up a can of whupass on a body. He's always the one in the interview room when Brenda needs someone to glare menacingly at a suspect. I've always felt that his awesome restraint comes from a recognition of his own hotheadness.

And so glad Kitty's staying! As a card-carrying member of her Fan Club, I look for her cameos every week!

I loved the scene when Fritz dumped Kitty on Brenda while absently correcting her whenever she called the poor thing "he." He totally pulled off the 'this is my life, this is the woman I love, what's a man gonna do?' attitude about it.
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#3807

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 10:03 AM

I really enjoyed last night's episode - I'm so happy this show is back! I knew Croelick wasn't the killer, nor did I expect him to be. I'm glad they brought him back for the banter with Brenda. I will say, however, that I was scared to death that those candles were going to blow up and hurt Fritz when Brenda went to the back door to lock it behind Croelick and Fritz came in the front. Also, my sister and I are a little concerned about Kitty - when Croelick was backing away from Brenda he had to look down at the cat cage to avoid tripping over it, and we just don't want him to have taken notice of her and then we end up with a flambed Kitty warning for Brenda at some point in the future. I love Croelick as the villian, and I do hope he comes back at some point in the future for an ultimate showdown with Brenda.

I also am guessing that Daniels is pregnant, and the tension could be that if they get married, (and I'm guessing Gabriel does want to) one of them would definitely have to leave the squad, and neither wants to leave.

I think Sanchez's shakedown of the reporter was very much in character (also awesome); he's been shown to have a serious temper, and I've been worried for a while that he might eventually go too far with it.

Someone upstream mentioned they were glad that Brenda was the one that finally dealt with the landlord/Kitty situation (talking to him and paying the extra deposit). I think that shows a nice little bit of growth on her part. She still leans heavily on Fritz for her personal life, but I'm okay with that; I think it's been believably portrayed that in order to keep her professional life together, someone has to be there for her to keep her personal life together, or else everything would fall apart. Despite his occasional exasperation, Fritz seems to be happy to do this for her, and not afraid to push back when he has to. I love their relationship, I think they are very well matched.
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#3808

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 10:34 AM

I can't be the only one who thought Brenda really needed to wash her hand after putting it into that icky skin glove! And shockingly, did we see Brenda go without sugar or even a sugar craving in the whole episode?!
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#3809

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 11:06 AM

Add me to the "I really hate having to watch a few minutes of Grace before the previews" list. It didn't entice me to stay up and watch the episode, either!
Back to Closer...I really thought Brenda should have blown out the candles and told Fritz the truth about where they came from, and dealt with any fallout from Fritz about Croelick being there. Croelick is soooo creepy! birdy, he was in "Fatal Retraction." from tv.com:

It seems three years ago, Flynn was instrumental in nailing a sociopath named Bill Croelick for the murder of a meth addict named Lisa Barnes. The only problem is, Lisa Barnes wasnít dead; in fact, she just now turned up on the coronerís table as the result of an overdose.

I didn't get that it was the fire fighter right away, I even thought for a moment it might have been the reporter.
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#3810

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Posted Jul 15, 2008 @ 11:20 AM

My only complaint with this episode was that there weren't enough scenes with the supporting players. Between creepy but pretty Billy the Fire Bug, and the reporter, there wasn't enough time for the others. I love Provenza and Flynn, especially when they have scenes together and act like an old married couple.

I also agree that Brenda should have told Fritz what happened. That scene didn't ring true to me at all -- yes, we know Brenda is ditzy in her homelife, but she's also a professional police officer living with an FBI agent who deserves to know that the firebug found out where they live. Sort of shoddy writing, there.
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