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Other Seasons, Other Versions: The Comparison Thread


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#1

JTMacc99

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 10:48 AM

I often find myself comparing the current batch of jerkweeds to the prior seasons' jerkweeds. I wonder if Troy could have convinced Andy to feed the poor bastards working late on his stupid Pepsi bottle. I wonder if Brian would have installed new seats on the rickshaws. I amuse myself thinking about Osamarosa dressed up like a clown.

Since these discussions can be a lot of fun, but often come up in the episode threads where they stray way off topic, I think we should give them a new home.

First up for me are these two:

Worst sexist asshole so far: John? Baldford? Other? For me, John's "fluffer" moment put him at the top of the list.

Random "my dad could kick your dad's ass" discussion: You know who would have handled Jennifer M's meaningless boardroom ranting and raving better than anybody in season two? Bren. His combination of logic and Southern-smarm would have picked her apart in a condescending way that would have made Trump stop praising her for "being really good". Kelly just sat there flabbergasted that Jennifer just kept talking, but saying nothing. I'm not saying that I like Bren better than Kelly (or that I even like Bren OR Kelly), but I really think that Bren would have disarmed Jenn, and I wish I could have seen it.




Added international versions comparisons into the mix; changed thread title slightly.

Edited by Jacob, Nov 13, 2005 @ 5:47 PM.


#2

spindotdat

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 2:07 PM

ITA with JTMacc99's observation that now that we're in Season 3, this topic needed its own home.

Personally, I think the TA3 crew is worse than the TA2 crew. The bad? Really bad. I think Rob and Baldford would smoke Danny and Brian any day of the week.

But even the good aren't that great. Other than Kendra, and possibly Tana, I don't see any of the current bunch that could "outperform" Bill, Troy, Nick, Kwame, or even Kelly, Jenn M., Kevin, or Sandy.

#3

tjames

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 2:58 PM

Personally, I think the TA3 crew is worse than the TA2 crew.


I agree. I think it's pretty much a straight line downhill from TA1. I'm already dreading what TA4 could bring.

I'm not sure about Bren and JennM, JTMacc99. IIRC, Jenn didn't say much in the Boardrooms at all (and what she did say was usually intelligent, IMO) - until the Jenn v Sandy shriekfests and then against Kelly in the finale. And by that point, she just yelled and interrupted regardless of what was being said; and since Trump seemed to enjoy the harpies and took the yelling and interrupting as "defending yourself," I'm not sure exactly what Bren could do to stop her.

Plus, I think the women of TA2 - Jenn and Ivana, in particular, but you could probably add in Smeagol, Maria and Sandy--very well might have torn Bren to shreds if he did try to pick her apart. As you say, he tends to talk in a very condescending way, and I can't see the women of TA2 putting up with that tone for a second. Another way, IMO, that the current crop is a level below last season.

#4

JTMacc99

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 3:28 PM

I don't know, I just have this feeling that Bren would do really well in a debate with Jenn. I think it has to do with the way he dealt with Stephanie when he was the PM of the trailer task. She shot her mouth off about the job he was doing as PM, and basically tried to set him up as the reason for losing, should that happen. He took in what she was saying, and then backed her into her own corner.

That moment really hit me. I guess it was because I watched the entire season two bunch repeatedly set up each other to take the fall, and it seemed like no apprentice ever effectively put an end to it. (Trump called shrimp-boat on it, but I don't remember any apprentice ever stopping another one dead in his or her tracks like Bren did to Stephanie.)

For some reason, I think that Trump would actually listen to Bren's response, when he didn't really listen to Sandy or Kelly. It's something about the smarmy way Bren does it. I really think that after Trump got his jollies from listening to Jenn just shout her case at Bren, that he would also appreciate a well crafted, logical, but also insulting response from Bren. Trump clearly likes smart people, and even more, he likes a quality put-down.

That's pretty much why I think Bren would have done okay against Jenn. Jenn very well might be smarter than Bren, but I think Bren has certain qualities that would amuse Trump almost as much as Tall, Blonde, and Young.

Edited by JTMacc99, Mar 15, 2005 @ 3:35 PM.


#5

Princess PJ

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 4:00 PM

I disagree that this season's crop is worse than last season's. It's just such a relief to see Apprenti that actually, you know, do the work that's assigned instead of aggresively seeking scapegoats from week to week.

I don't know... I guess some of the Season 2 folk could persevere due to flat-out Machavellian planning, but I'm still naive enough to hope that the workers would win out over the whiners.

#6

JTMacc99

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 4:31 PM

Well, I certainly LIKE the season 3 people more.

It's possible that certain season 2 people, like Andy or Pamela, would have been much more successful as part of season 3's cast. I think both of them seem like decent people, and were certainly willing to work hard.

#7

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 4:54 PM

I don't know... I guess some of the Season 2 folk could persevere due to flat-out Machavellian planning, but I'm still naive enough to hope that the workers would win out over the whiners.

Exactly. People like little Stacy, Maria and Ivana seemed to put most of their energy into complaining rather than working. In terms of general personality, I prefer this season's group much more than season two's crop of Apprentices. In fact, the only people I ended up liking were some of the male candidates: Andy, Kevin and Raj. And John and Wes, more or less. That's about it. I didn't like any of the women, though I disliked some of them less than others. And I agree that Bren could have dealt quite effectively with the harpies, based on how he dealt with Stephanie, who has the most in common with the season 2 female candidates. Thank God there's been less need for that this time around.

Now, this season's crop is weaker on marketing abilities, and since so many tasks are marketing-related, that's a disadvantage. Also, even setting aside the BookSmart/StreetSmart dividing-up of the teams, the overall level of education is lower this season. There's only four candidates with post-baccalaureate degrees, and one of them (Alex) earned his law degree in the last year. Last season, seven of the candidates had post-BA degrees. Then, looking at the majors, only three of the BookSmarts crew have business-related degrees (Stephanie, Todd and Verna), unlike last season where nine of the candidates had business degrees. And only one candidate (Verna) has an MBA, unlike last season where there were four candidates with MBAs (Pamela, Kevin, Kelly and Stacie J.). So, undoubtedly, the season 2 candidates were better prepared, on the whole. But I still just didn't like most of them.

#8

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Posted Mar 15, 2005 @ 7:46 PM

I loved the majority of the season 1 cast. I did not like Omarosa! Season 2, I feel had the best education. I liked most of the men, especially Wes, Andy, Chris, and Kevin. I think the season 3 cast are the weakest as far as education goes. There are a few who I am rooting for, but no one person stands out.

#9

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 12:06 AM

I find that Networth is much more entertaining than either Apex or Mosaic were last season, but Magna is less entertaining than either team in season 2. Also I found the boardrooms to be much more intense in season 2. This season the boardrooms have been rather humdrum.

#10

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 8:57 AM

I thought Apex (both pre and post restructure) was the most fun team to watch out of the 6 so far. Magna (pre restructure) is by far the most boring because all of them with the exception of two people suck. Edit: So is Networth, come to think of it. By this time in the season last year, Stacy R had 70 pages worth of discussion and I'm not sure whether you'll end up with a number larger than that if you added up the total discussion pages of all the Season 3 candidates.

Seems like there are less and less people to root for with each season.

Edited by gapkid, Mar 16, 2005 @ 9:01 AM.


#11

Princess PJ

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 9:04 AM

Personally, I can't see rooting for any of the obnoxious trolls from Season 2. Jen M had me on her side for a little while (until she showed her true colors), and I liked Wes, but other than that, those people were just utterly unappealing to me. The show went from "May the best businessperson win" to just another reality game show in a big hurry due to most of those folks, especially once Pam and Bradford were fired.

I'm glad to see the focus back on hard work and business savvy this season, even if some of the candidates are a little bland and the overall level of education is lower than in previous seasons. As Jen M proved, a high level of education doesn't automatically make you a worthy candidate, and conversely I don't think the lack of a fancy post-grad degree means all that much, if you're willing to work hard.

#12

JTMacc99

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 12:41 PM

By this time in the season last year, Stacy R had 70 pages worth of discussion and I'm not sure whether you'll end up with a number larger than that if you added up the total discussion pages of all the Season 3 candidates.

I guess it's okay to use these boards as an indication of overall interest. I actually think that Season 2 generated so much interest because of the wildly popular Season 1. Similarly, the awful stinkfest that was Season 2 clearly killed almost all of the enthusiasm for Season 3.

#13

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 4:54 PM

I would have loved for John to say "I'll sell you these girls right now" with Omarosa and Heidi in the room.

#14

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 4:57 PM

By this time in the season last year, Stacy R had 70 pages worth of discussion . . . Seems like there are less and less people to root for with each season.

Stacy R may have generated 70 pages of discussion, but that doesn't mean that people were rooting for her. Probably about 50 pages consisted of pleas (threats, complaints, prayers, etc.) "to get her off of my television screen, PLEASE!" Few people supported her, and most people wanted her gone ASAP: she was a irritant, and irritants generate a response, but not a positive response. Troy is probably the most popular candidate in the series, but his thread is 49 pages long as of today, shorter than little Stacy's, which seems somehow sad to me. So, I don't think pages of discussion on a particular candidate means that there's more support for that candidate, and more often, it means the opposite, as witnessed by the length of Assorama's thread.

Also, the individual episodes this season are generating about 22-40 pages of comments, which is about standard.

I realize that one thing I'm enjoying this season is the absence of Assoramas or Stacy Rs, and most of all, last season's incessant bickerfest.

Edited by CheekyCricket, Mar 16, 2005 @ 5:03 PM.


#15

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 4:57 PM

ITA with the above post. I only started watching season 3 after TWOP assured me it was not the scream fest that was season 2.

I think that this show is all about stunt casting. Are we supposed to believe that Brian, Danny and Chris are the best out of one million people? It would be boring to watch responsible and sane people complete tasks, there would be no drama. However, I don't see how Trump can say with a straight face that they are the best of the best.

#16

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 6:07 PM

I'm enjoying TA3 much more than TA2.

And I hate Baldford almost as much as I hate John. I hate John more because he had me rooting for him in the beginning, and then he turned into such a sexist jerk. I hated Baldford from the moment he opened his mouth.

#17

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 6:43 PM

However, I don't see how Trump can say with a straight face that they are the best of the best.

Well, hyperbole is his thing: if he couldn't inflate and bluster, he probably couldn't speak. Apprentices may change from season to season, but Trump's exaggerations stay the same.

#18

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 8:25 PM

Princess PJ said

Personally, I can't see rooting for any of the obnoxious trolls from Season 2.

Same here. I'd be just as happy to forget Season 2 ever existed; by the end, I couldn't care less who won.

Like Wicked, I'm enjoying this season much more, largely because I'm finding a handful of the contestants actually...likeable, or at least approaching normal. And this season the firings have all been justified (so far, anyway), whereas last season the bootings were so arbitrary it was infuriating.

#19

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Posted Mar 16, 2005 @ 8:58 PM

I'm enjoying this season much more, largely because I'm finding a handful of the contestants actually...likeable, or at least approaching normal.

Yes, that's what I've been thinking too. Even Danny, the oddball character, or Audrey, the kookoo-mixed-up character, have some relatable qualities. Also, I only actively dislike three candidates--Kristin, Michael and now John--and that's saying something, considering that during last season, I actively disliked half of the candidates, most of them women, sorry to say.

I'm enjoying this season much more, largely because I'm finding a handful of the contestants actually...likeable, or at least approaching normal.

This is where I differ, because I didn't see the firings last season as arbitrary, except for the ganging-up on Stacie. I had no problem with Baldford's firing and surprising even myself, I agreed with Trump's reasoning: Baldford made an incredibly stupid, rash decision that showed that he totally misread the situation, and particularly, his place in the pecking-order. The main difficulty I had with Pamela's firing was the timing: I don't think she would have fit into the Trump organization anyway, and so she would have been fired eventually; also, I admired her willpower and intelligence, but she had a gift for sticking her foot in her mouth.

The rest of the firings, well, I would have liked to see Ivana, Jenn C., Maria, Elizabeth and little Stacy fired en masse, but once I accepted the unreality of that wish, I was content to see them fired one by one, even if I had to put up with them longer than I wanted to. Last season, the incessant bickering, complaining and screaming created a murky situation where, to be honest, there were so many potential firees during any given boardroom that I would have to

The one firing I was ticked off about was Andy's, and that's because Trump couldn't tell the difference between a debate and a screechfest. Sandy was a good worker and an energetic person, but once she learned that raising her voice impressed Trump, she did it at every occasion; however, she really needs to work with a coach who will teach her to argue effectively. Trump, in one of his most bozoish moments yet, decided that Jenn M. and Sandy have "out-debated" Andy. Pah! That was a screaming match, not a debate, and Andy was smart to stay out of it. Anyway, now that I've gotten that off my chest . .

#20

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 10:13 AM

The main difficulty I had with Pamela's firing was the timing


But the firings on this show are 90% about the timing. Only one person's going to win, so the only thing the other 15-17 people have to bank on is how long they last. While Trump may have had a valid reason to fire Pam at some point, he most certainly didn't have a valid reason to fire her then. What was infuriating about it was that competant, capabale Pam got outlasted by the likes of Maria, Ivana, and Stacy-freakin'-R. How humiliating and wrong.

One of the great things about this season is how Trump and Viceroys seem to "get it" again. Games aren't entertaining if they don't seem fair.

#21

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 11:03 AM

One of the great things about this season is how Trump and Viceroys seem to "get it" again.

Exactly. I think the Viceroys are back in Season 1 form so far this season. Their comments have been dead-on accurate about the reasons for the various losses and sometimes even demonstrate keen insight and business acumen. What a delightful surprise after most of S2 saw Carolyn just mindlessly agreeing with whatever crap came out of Trump's mouth.

#22

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 12:08 PM

Well, I think that they are just like us. They seem to actually like some of these people, and therefore the experience is probably more enjoyable for them.

#23

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 12:51 PM

I like S3 way better than S2 -- mostly because the women of S2 seemed less like professionals and more like actress/model wannabes. The S3 people seem a little more real professionals on both teams.

#24

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 2:40 PM

I couldn't care less who won S2 because everyone was backstabbing pigs 100% of the time. At least S1 & S3 have people who bonded at least a little and who can put pettyness aside occasionally. Please let the women this season act like business women and not like whores playing dress up (Ivana).

#25

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 4:01 PM

For me, it's not a matter of liking the TA3 contestants more than TA2's. It's a matter of hating them less. But I still hate 'em. Well, hate is a strong word, but I certainly hav=ve no favorites and that's what sucks. I could be bothered to root for any of these people because they have all be edited as fairly boob-tastic.

There has yet to be a great idea, yet to be an underdog, yet to be any real great boardroom. It's just been boring. And that's mainly due to the candidates.

I honestly felt as though the TA2 women were far more driven and intelligent. Sure, they were also imbalanced (and I'm sensitive to that) but , god damn, that's what made them fun to watch!

The tasks have eroded into blatant product placement ads and have little to no point. It's about how much money you raise. And when the TA3 peopel ARE assigned atask based on some sort of merit other than financial (i.e. creative) they just tank. This crop of peopel can not be "the best" of what they saw. It's just unpossible (TM Ivana)

The problem is, TA3 people have seen TA1 or TA2, so now many of them just slink around and refuse to take a risk.

And if my instincts are right and Erin makes into the final two, then this show will oficcially slip into camp/joke status.

#26

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 5:15 PM

I personally enjoy Season 3 a bit more then Season 2, but I still think both are miles behind Season 1.

The first season somehow manage to be almost perfect. They had likeable people who were smart (Bill, Troy, Kwame) and had the perfect villian (Omarosa), who was evil, but you could tell she had some intelligence.

The other seasons seem to have problems balacning that out. There are more likeable contestants in Season 3 then Season 2, but I haven't seen anything out of them. I'm rooting for Kendra pretty much by default. People like Bren and Erin can be entertaining to some, but what have they done besides think up cucumber commericals and flirt with Trump? The rest are just bleh.

I hated most of the Season 2 cast, but I really did think people like Kelly, Kevin, and even Jen M. were smart. They just weren't nice people.

That being said, this season the firings do make sense. Besides the Pamela, Stacie J, and Baldford firings (but I did agree with the Baldford one), there were other annoying ones as well. I didn't like Trump firing Raj, because Raj had shown he had a lot more to offer then Ivana. I didn't like Any getting fired for the wrong reason. And Kevin and Sandy kind of shafted.

Basically, this season I'm kind of bored sometimes, but at least I don't want to chunk things at the television. And at least I am rooting for Kendra because I like her; unlike last season were I just decided that Kelly was the lesser of two evils.

I'm just hoping that TPTB manage to find another good cast next time around. The show isn't broken, it just needs some fixing. There won't be another Troy, Bill, Kwame, etc, but they can find likeable people. Survivor is making a comeback, because of people like Tom and Ian. The Apprentice should be able to do that. Hell, they could get Boston Rob. Rob might as well try out for this show as well.

#27

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 8:33 PM

I'm just hoping that TPTB manage to find another good cast next time around. The show isn't broken, it just needs some fixing. There won't be another Troy, Bill, Kwame, etc, but they can find likeable people.



Somehow, season I managed a semblance of novelty, surprise, likeability (even loving to wait out O's demise) and most of all, there was a true feeling that the winner did desire the apprenticeship with TD. Ok, I'm a dreamer.

Yes, Heidi and Erin got on my nerves, but they were fully rounded. Bitchfests abound in the corporate world, at all levels, so this didn't bother me.

Season two felt rushed, slimmey, outright dragging viewers in the mud and everything else that might be around. Not only was there no one to root for or against, I just wanted out;there was a sense of home invasion...who were these people and where did they come from? Better yet, who the hell judged them appropriate candidates?

If I wanted to watch Jerry Springer, I'd watch Jerry Springer, but it seemed as if he had invaded TA and I waited for him to burst out of TD abdomen while in the boardroom.

Season III-definately an improvement from last year; that said, the "you can never go home again" is obviously true.

I wish TPTB would decide whether they want to be an all out game show or truly be aiming for business skills. Once this is resolved, then the show can settle in to it's final identity imo.

#28

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Posted Mar 17, 2005 @ 9:05 PM

we are a few weeks behind the US in viewing, so I'm steadfastly trying not to read the recaps until they air in Australia.

Although the candidates in TA3 can seem a bit boring, overall they are much better IMO than season two.

So far I'm liking Angie, Tana, and Alex. Kendra seems ok too but I haven't seen much of her. And I have to say, it is *such* a pleasant change to have likable women on this show. The only reason people have forgotten the shrews of season one is because the harpies of season two were so much worse.
(For the most part I am exempting Amy from this, but she never got that being attractive and selling sex are two different things, and one is not appropriate in a board room.)

I wish the product placement tasks would go, they are no fun. It would be much better to see them selling lemonade on a street corner again. But I guess you can't get a sponsor to pay for that, can you?

I also wish that Troy had been brought back as a contestant for the Street Smarts team. He rocks :D

#29

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Posted Mar 18, 2005 @ 11:35 AM

I think the Viceroys are back in Season 1 form so far this season.


I agree. I think the main problem of S2 was the attitude taken by Trump and the Viceroys--if they had slapped down the right people at the right times, the season never would have become the grotesque spectacle it ended up. But Trump was outright condoning the shrieking fights, and Carolyn seemed to hate the contestants so much that she ended up sometimes seeming as annoying and hyperbolic as the Wannabes.

But now that they're back on track, I'm finding that they don't have much to work with (or against). The S3 bunch is IMO a bunch of dullards who haven't brought much to the party--their ideas aren't great or even interesting, their mistakes so eye-rollingly obvious that when the Viceroys call them out for it, my reaction is along the lines of "Well, duh."

As unbalanced as someone like Maria was last season, she showed more in the space of that one fashion episode than I think any S3 candidate has shown in total. I can't imagine anyone in S3 being able to PM that task as well, or even as well as Mosaic did, and I can't believe I've said something positive about Maria...

#30

Tegan Jovanka

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Posted Mar 18, 2005 @ 12:36 PM

Maria lucked out thanks to the fashion designer she chose.

Season 2 was sometimes easier to watch than season 3 because I didn't give a shit about most of the losers in season 2. I could HATE HATE HATE them and laugh when they went down in flames. When you are a completely embittered observer who enjoys the stock cars toppling over, you don't have to put forth any effort. That's fun in the short-term but by the end of the season, I felt degraded. Seeing Pamela in that final task, doing ALL the work while a world class shirker (Jen) couldn't even master one simple conversation or handshake -- it was heartbreaking. It was the antithesis of everything The Apprentice was supposed to be about.

I don't care about education, I just care about people who can stand up for themselves, work hard, have a modicum of humor, and are multidimensional. That's what I like about this season. The layers. It isn't always pretty to see meltdowns and psychotic breaks, but I feel like I can relate to even Chris better than I related to most of the season 2 Rastan Death Robots.

The first half of the season was increasingly unwatchable, with the Tara firing episode being the watershed (I really had a difficult time getting through that episode, from boredom at the task, and then anger at what happened to Tara), but things rebounded with Audrey and John's meltdowns and the shadings this brought out in their teams. What I'm happiest about is that I actually want people to win. I'm not just rooting for people to get fired and see themselves humiliated on national TV. I want Angie, Kendra and Tana to do well. I even find myself agreeing with Chris or Bren or Alex sometimes. I don't think Bren or anyone could have handled the Apexonyourhouses because they only cared about destroying everything in their path to survive another boardroom. They were toxic waste and they were one of the biggest reasons season 2 was agony.

The women, and their clothes, are far and away better, LEAGUES better, than just about every female in the first two seasons combined IMHO. They are far more diverse, their relationships are more complicated, and they don't dress like refugees from a Madonna video.

Edited by Tegan Jovanka, Mar 18, 2005 @ 12:41 PM.