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#1591

rocketito

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 1:11 PM

When Kristen walked through the door, I guarantee you Jeff thought "oh, shit".

This wasn't just a substance abuse intervention; it was also a psychiatric intervention, and that's not Jeff's area. I think he did the best possible thing, as a clinician. He immediately realized that, in contrast to her calm, stable family, this girl was extremely volatile. He realized "oh, okay, we're not just dealing with a substance abuse problem here", and went into caution mode. Anything he said or did could have set her off, so the correct thing to do clinically was to sit back and gauge the person's behavior. It's like double-dutch jump rope--you gotta stand back for a minute and watch the ropes spin so you can know when and how to jump. Jump in blindly and you're on your ass.

Saying "will you let me care for you?", was a good tactic. Didn't work, but it was still the best thing he could have said clinically. Gentle, nurturing, capitalizing on her hunger for male attention. Being tough with her would do nothing--she's been literally beaten, she's had sex with hundreds of strangers for money, and the tough thing would not have cowed her. The session would have been over right then.

Huge, huge error to let the child in the room. Clinically, I can understand his thinking "hey, maybe this will keep the patient calmer". And it might have, who knew. That's the problem, because as a clinician you don't bring in any new variable without knowing what its effect will be. Too big a risk. Plus not okay, because it was a big trauma for the child. Huge, dramatic scene with your mother, who is then Taken Away...ay yi.

In sum, I'd say he had about as much control in that session as he could have had. It could have ended way worse.

The fact that she was already jonesing was a good thing, clinically. Bringing someone into an intervention when they're fiiiiiine doesn't usually work too well. They can't always pay attention, and don't relate to the pain of addiction when they're fixed up. (That is, after all, the whole problem.) Bring 'em in when they're hurting and it is easier to show them how their behavior hurts them.

Also, about how drugs/alcohol change one's behavior--no drug in the world can change a person's behavior this much. Drugs and alcohol may disinhibit, may create the need for theft or prostitution, and those experiences can change a person, drugs may distort various aspects of a person's behavior or personality, but they don't make you into someone else. Kristen in that session--that was Kristen. The worst parts of her, yes, but still her.


ETA that termination of parental rights protects the child. It doesn't mean the child can never see the parent again, it just means that the parent has far, far less ability to screw up the child's life. IMO, Kristen should have no rights whatsoever over Sadie. She can't be trusted with those rights.

Edited by rocketito, Jan 16, 2006 @ 1:27 PM.

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#1592

leew261

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 1:17 PM

Sadie's interests would not be served by never, ever seeing her mother again.


I disagree. I think if Sadie knew for certain that she didn't have to be a part of Kristen dysfunctional life anymore, it would allow her to develop stability and certainty in her life, assuming that her dad is a positive influence and a good parent. I'm no psychologist, that is just my personal opinion -- YMMV, of course.

Actually I think termination of parental rights should be done more often. It would prevent kids from hanging in limbo for years and would give messed up parents a greater incentive for turning their lives around. Again, YMMV.

Edited by leew261, Jan 16, 2006 @ 7:48 PM.

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#1593

Sloth on Speed

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 3:34 PM

This was one of the sadder episodes of Intervention, although I don't think any of them are happy. Gabe's episode is somewhat funny, especially in snark value, but it sure isn't happy. To me, the really sad episodes are where you know that the person profiled is either too far gone to recover, or never had a soul to begin with. Soul isn't in the religious sense, I mean it more to separate a human being from an animal. It's more than self-awareness, and it's hard to describe. All I know is that Kristin didn't have it.

All the treatment in the world wasn't going to make her a healthy person. I thought there were a few hints of what was happening when she began to rant about her sister being the perfect one, although there's a lot more than jealousy going on with Kristin.

I predict that Kristin is going to join the ranks of subjects whose progress is not mentioned, like Michael, the "rage addict," and Mark, the alcohol/pain medicine addict who refused to speak with his dying wife. They might still be people, but they sure aren't human.
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#1594

funkmachine

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 4:18 PM

BTW, someone upthread was surprised at the film crew's interaction with the addicted subject. This has happened before.

I recall this happened during the ep where both brothers were addicted. One brother ran off and the producers had to intervene and get him to talk to his other brother (who agreed to treatment). One of the brothers was in a wheelchair if that jogs anyone's memory.

My favorite one was the musician (he was in a rock band) who had caused damage to his heart because of his many overdoses. He didn't want to go to treatment and the camera guy and/or producer had a convincing talk with him about going to treatment.
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#1595

leew261

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 4:24 PM

I recall this happened during the ep where both brothers were addicted. One brother ran off and the producers had to intervene and get him to talk to his other brother (who agreed to treatment). One of the brothers was in a wheelchair if that jogs anyone's memory.


According to the A&E web site there will be an update on the brothers, Brooks and Ian, this coming Sunday. There will also be updates on alcoholic wife and mother Cristine and heroin addict Audrey.
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#1596

tuq

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 4:52 PM

When Kristen's mother brought Sadie to the park there was in interview with her where she said she supervised visits because she was afraid of Kristin "being around" Sadie when she was high. My closed captionng said she was afraid of Kristen "beating on" Sadie when she was high.

Methinks it was just misheard by the captioner (sic), notime. I always watch with the captions on so I don't miss anything (especially since this show is mumble-licious) and missed that. Certainly I don't think that there was any abuse going on, just that the kid wasn't really interested in being away from friends just to be around a fucked-up mom.

What I don't get is why these drug accomplices (in this case the roommate) allow themselves to be filmed. It stands to reason that they are similarly addicted but aren't offered any treatment options. Nor are they very employable after the whole world sees them getting high.

she's not even shooting it yet, let alone smoking, so to me she has a lot farther to plummet, which she probably will. Her addiction still seemed like it was budding in my opinion.

I've yet to hear of a rock bottom heroin story that didn't involve a needle, so I am inclined to agree. So that was weed she was smoking, not heroin? It wasn't clear and I am blissfully ignorant of the machinations of it all.
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#1597

crimekate

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 6:09 PM

I've yet to hear of a rock bottom heroin story that didn't involve a needle, so I am inclined to agree. So that was weed she was smoking, not heroin? It wasn't clear and I am blissfully ignorant of the machinations of it all.

The heroin that's available in most US cities today is much, much more pure than 20 years ago - due largely to changes in the distribution patterns and new players (specifically the Colombians) in the industry - more competition, closer than SE Asia - the result is a higher quality product for less money! It used to be that street heroin was 10-15% pure, now the national average (estimates vary, of course) is 40-60% pure. In east coast cities like NY or Philly it's up to 90% in some parts of the city. Because of this, you don't have to inject it - you can get just as high (and just as hooked, if you're so inclined) by smoking or snorting it. Incidentally, these increases in purity have been linked with the emergence of what the research literature calls "new user populations" (e.g. white middle-class kids) because removing the stigma of the needle makes the drug more appealing to try - makes it seem less scary.

Yes, that was definitely weed she was smoking. I thought it was funny that they didn't make any mention of it, because she's probably smoking that every day too.

What's up with this bathouse?! Someone upthread mentioned that it was in Madison - I never heard of a bathouse for straight men (and not for gay men either, not for a long time). Is it kind of like a "massage parlor" type place, or what?

As far as Kristen's behavior at the intervention - the emotional lability, the collapsing in her uncle's arms - let's all remember, she had drank about half of that fifth of rum or whiskey or whatever it was - she was HAMMERED. And dope sick. I'm not saying she wasn't a drama queen, but she was plenty fucked up in all sorts of ways on top of whatever emotional problems she had.
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#1598

hannebash

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 6:13 PM

At the end of the program, when Kristen was talking to Sadie on the phone, she kept telling her she was getting a huge surprise. Sadie was all excited, thinking it was a Barbie or a My Little Pony, and for some reason Kristen thought her coming back would be a great gift for her kid. I have the feeling the kid was horrified that the surprise was mommy coming back. That is probably why they did not show the homecoming. What a moron.
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#1599

Madmarsha

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 7:22 PM

And who knew you could get fired as a prostitute?

Shocked me. I'm guessing there's no unemployment benefits!

I wish Sadie's father had not allowed her to participate at all. Period. Not just in the intervention. Sadie should not have been allowed to be shown on film. It was purely exploitative. He himself refused to be on but clearly allowed Sadie. I would have been much more interested in seeing him to see what kind of guy became involved with Kristen. He may be better than her, but I'm guessing he's not necessarily father of the year material.
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#1600

Sars

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 7:47 PM

hannebash: Yeah, seriously. "Oh, it's you. So...you bring me a Bratz doll or what?"

According to the A&E web site there will be an update on the brothers, Brooks and Ian, this coming Sunday.


Aw, yay. I really liked them and wanted them to get it together; I hope they're doing better.
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#1601

tracigail

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 10:42 PM

In other news...here's an article about what Sara's up to now. Good stuff!

Ex-Addict Spreads Word for Sheriff
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#1602

osirus

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 10:47 PM

I wish Sadie's father had not allowed her to participate at all. Period. Not just in the intervention. Sadie should not have been allowed to be shown on film.


I agree but for some reason I think that what she saw at the intervention was 1/100th of the drama she is used to with her mother and family.

The thing I don't get about Kirsten is she didn't appear to have a Traumatic event in her life that pushed her to heroin. I know her parents split when she was young but she just started Heroin 3 years ago which would put her at 21. Most of these stories involve Abuse which was never mentioned in Kristen's story.
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#1603

timeonmyhands

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 10:52 PM

Sadie was all excited, thinking it was a Barbie or a My Little Pony, and for some reason Kristen thought her coming back would be a great gift for her kid.

I would like to think that she had the good sense to bring a Barbie along with her when she saw Sadie. Something tells me that she probably didn't though. and by "something" I mean the fact that she behaved like a total maroon she was on the screen.
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#1604

Madmarsha

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Posted Jan 16, 2006 @ 11:48 PM

The thing I don't get about Kirsten is she didn't appear to have a Traumatic event in her life that pushed her to heroin

Yeah, she really should be the poster child for proving that you can get hooked on heroin after one use. I think she just tried it cos she was partying, not to escape her demons. Problem is some of us could do that and not become addicted, we just don't know which ones of us are going to instantly become addicted. I sort of hate that this show's black screen facts highlight things to blame their addiction on. Most have had horrible things happen to them to be sure, but it doesn't make them blameless when their addiction makes them turn around and hurt the people who only care about them and want to help them.
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#1605

NeonJungle

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 12:16 AM

I think she was pretty drunk by the time Pete arrived but still.


Yep, judging by the level of liquor in the bottle when she first walked in to the hotel room, got mad and walked out, sat on the sidewalk and pulled it out of her purse, as compared to the level when she said "I need a drink" and slugged from the bottle during the intervention some time later, she was tanked. I don't know how long they were there, but it seemed as if she were drinking it constantly.

I so felt for Sadie. And agree that she shouldn't have been there. You could tell she did not want to be near her mamma -- the expression on her face when Kristen was hugging her was heart-breaking, one of those, "Mamma's not right. I need to get out of here. I'm too young to make sense of this except to know Mamma's not right."

Edited by NeonJungle, Jan 17, 2006 @ 12:17 AM.

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#1606

KeyOui

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 8:31 AM

And who knew you could get fired as a prostitute?

Shocked me. I'm guessing there's no unemployment benefits!

Its probably not good for business, when the location of your illegal establishment is shown on camera and that your employees require copious amounts of heroin and alcohol to perform because they feel like they're "doing their father or uncle", and because they absolutely hate it, AND that they've have had over 500 sexual partners and every STD ever known.

The thing I don't get about Kirsten is she didn't appear to have a Traumatic event in her life that pushed her to heroin. I know her parents split when she was young but she just started Heroin 3 years ago which would put her at 21. Most of these stories involve Abuse which was never mentioned in Kristen's story.

All we got was 2 sentences on a black screen plus about half an hour of edited footage of her current life. Not all addicts have been molested. We don't know what else has happened to her. Maybe not every possible event in her life was disclosed on the show. After all, if she's being routinely physically abused by her boyfriend who she kept insisting was the only one who loved her, indicates major self-worth issues making her vulnerable to some kind of addiction. Plus she was drinking, smoking pot and having sex on a regular basis at 13 and it just didn't stop. Sometimes using pot as a teenager is a gateway to other drugs when you're older.
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#1607

IvySpice

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:09 AM

Its probably not good for business, when the location of your illegal establishment is shown on camera


Yeah, if that wasn't a cry for help, I don't know what is. Being part of a documentary is one thing, but letting them follow you to the brothel is another. Note that Kristen was incredibly scrupulous about not letting the cameras see her boyfriend or say anything about him. So she knew how to protect people's privacy when she wanted to. When it came to the job, she didn't want to.
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#1608

Porky

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:15 AM

Note that Kristen was incredibly scrupulous about not letting the cameras see her boyfriend or say anything about him.

Because she knew he would beat her more if they did. She even told the cameraman to wait a few minutes after she leaves to be sure her boyfriend didn't see the cameraman leaving. She was afraid of him. I don't think it had anything to do with protecting his privacy.

ETA: Do you think her entire family knew what she did for a living? Because she admitted right in front of her daughter that she was fired from her job, but all I could think about was what kind of job her daughter thought she had. Based on the look on her face, Sadie was obviously old enough to understand the implications of being fired from your job. I wonder if she knew her mom "sold her pussy for drugs" or if she thought her mom was a waitress or something.

Edited by Porky, Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:20 AM.

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#1609

crazycatlady68

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 11:47 AM

I think everyone in the family knew. I don't know if Sadie would completely understand, but kids are sharp and they hear a lot more than they're supposed to, as a rule.

I felt so sorry for that little girl.
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#1610

Gildie

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 3:00 PM

For some reason I thought she was stripping along with the hooking and she was fired from the club (which is a front for escorting). I got the impression that she wasn't hooking on the street yet. I can't point to anything specific as to why I thought this. I guess I just didn't think a pimp would fire a ho, he'd just beat her back into line.
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#1611

Kosher Redneck

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 3:05 PM

I guess I just didn't think a pimp would fire a ho, he'd just beat her back into line.


"I'm sorry, Candylicious, it's just not working out. I'm going to ask you to clean out your alley."
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#1612

candlewax

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 3:34 PM

I don't know if Sadie would completely understand, but kids are sharp and they hear a lot more than they're supposed to, as a rule.


True- also, nobody in the family really seemed particularly concerned with shielding Sadie from things she shouldnt' necessarily be exposed to at her age. Hopefully, her father is reasonably stable and has a good support system.
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#1613

KeyOui

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 3:44 PM

For some reason I thought she was stripping along with the hooking and she was fired from the club (which is a front for escorting). I got the impression that she wasn't hooking on the street yet. I can't point to anything specific as to why I thought this. I guess I just didn't think a pimp would fire a ho, he'd just beat her back into line.

I don't think she was stripping. She was just working at that brothel or "bathhouse" that they taped her walking into. The guy firing her was the owner of the (illegal) brothel, and he did so because of her involvement with the show. Up until the intervention she hadn't resorted to hooking on the street as far as I could tell. But it was about to come to that apparently.
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#1614

Gildie

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Posted Jan 17, 2006 @ 4:06 PM

"I'm sorry, Candylicious, it's just not working out. I'm going to ask you to clean out your alley."


"I'll forward your W2 to the crackhouse."

She was just working at that brothel or "bathhouse" that they taped her walking into.


Thank you, KeyOui, I was so confused.
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#1615

VaVaVoom

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Posted Jan 18, 2006 @ 4:30 PM

I usually don't laugh while watching this show (well, except for the Gabe episode), but Kristen's gold tooth gave me the giggles.

I would have loved to see Kristen's boyfriend. It's so sad that she thinks he is taking care of her. I just don't understand the logic. Is it just that as long as she has a man, no matter how crappy he is, she's satisfied? I also want to know how you can have a girlfriend that you know sleeps with hundreds of guys.
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#1616

Morning Angel

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Posted Jan 18, 2006 @ 9:17 PM

In other news...here's an article about what Sara's up to now. Good stuff!

Ex-Addict Spreads Word for Sheriff


That is just so great. You could certainly though she was committed to getting better in/after her intervention. It's great she was given a chance by the Sheriff's department to turn her life around, and do something positive that will contribute to her community. Plus, her daughter will have a chance to know her mom.
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#1617

louveciennes

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Posted Jan 19, 2006 @ 7:48 PM

Hee hee, Sara is from White Bear Lake. Go Bears!

/Fargo
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#1618

Canaduck

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Posted Jan 23, 2006 @ 12:53 AM

Christine and her sneer still bug.

Brooks and Ian: sadly, too predictable. It sounded like Ian's NM therapist had a way better grasp of the situation than the Foundry did. Their mother makes me want to hurl objects at my TV.

Go Audrey! It was great to see her beaming at the end. She looked so much healthier and her shorter hair was cute.
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#1619

osirus

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Posted Jan 23, 2006 @ 4:12 AM

I'm pulling for Audrey all the way but I spent the whole time amazed at how much she resembles Willem Dafoe....I'm going to hell.
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#1620

KeyOui

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Posted Jan 23, 2006 @ 8:12 AM

I was really disappointed in the Brooks and Ian update. I had high hopes at the start, they both seemed healthier and clear-headed. Plus Brooks didn't need subtitles this time, so that's an improvement. I'd forgotten about the E, coke and 150 joints consumption in one week. Wow. Still feel so bad for Chace, and have nothing but admiration for the way he seems to be holding up their whole family. How he escaped the path that Ian and Brooks had taken is a testament to his character.

I am still infinitely bugged by Audrey's sisters. To me, they still carry this 'holier than thou' type attitude. I don't trust Hanna to quit with her bible recitations either. I'm glad Audrey is doing so much better, she looks great. Thought it was strange that Jason didn't show up, he was really the only one who was there for her the whole time, enabling aside of course.

Cristine looks a lot better also, though it looks like its taken even more of a toll on her marriage. I was surprised when her husband said its now twice as hard since she's been back from rehab. It kind of reminds me of that movie When a Man Loves a Woman and the marriage falls apart when the wife (Meg Ryan) comes back from rehab. Their son is so cute, and I love their interaction. But its not just 3 months that Cristine's been away, she hasn't been there essentially for the entirety of her son's life. So its not surprising he doesn't feel as close to her as he does to his father. And on a slightly more shallow note, her husband is still hot.

Edited by KeyOui, Jan 23, 2006 @ 8:13 AM.

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