442 replies to this topic

[RiverThames]

From the first Borg salvo of "Emissary" to the bombed school of "In The Hands Of The Prophets", let's discuss the steps and stumbles as DS9 finds its sea, er... space legs in the First Season.

[Unusual Suspect]

Out of all the modern Trek series, I honestly think DS9 had the strongest initial season. Yes, it was uneven, but there were also moments of brilliance. IMO, "Duet" still ranks as one of the best episodes of any Trek series. Actually, most of the Kira focused episodes were solid, "Past Prologue" or "Progress", for example.

[Aatrek]

"Dramatis Personae" is one of my favorite episodes of the series. Sisko goes nuts and builds a clock, Kira fights O'Brien and tries to take over, Jadzia goes euphoric, Bashir plays both sides... and Odo's caught in the middle.

"Babel" is pretty fun, too - everybody starts talking gibberish and Quark takes over in Ops.

[Cleo256]

"Move Along Home" embodies the first season for me. The plot is silly, but the characters are so well-formed and complete. Watch the different ways Kira, Bashir, Sisko, and Dax all do the "Allamaraine" song. These actors all have great reads on the characters already.

And that's the first season to me. Silly plots with great characters in them.

[Elenita]

Speaking of "Move Along Home", whatever happened to that Starfleet security officer that spat with Odo? You know, the one that was a precursor to Eddington? He just kinda disappeared after a few episodes.

[tothemax]

Out of all the modern Trek series, I honestly think DS9 had the strongest initial season. Yes, it was uneven, but there were also moments of brilliance.

This was discussed not to long ago, but, in "Emissary", the shot of Sisko in the escape pod as his ship explodes in the reflection is nothing short of brilliant.

Also, "I am not Picard!" Although that ep sucked. Stupid Vash. *shudder*

[Elenita]

Well, thankfully, she only showed up the once. Pretty soon, DS9 had its own lot of recurring characters to continually draw on, and could let go of the old ones.

[Dane]

Ew, Vash. When I was working my way through the discs, I was like, "Aw, man. Vash already??"

I really like "Move Along Home" for it's surreal, Alice In Wonderland-ness. I have a soft spot for "Captive Pursuit" too -- Tosk was so endearing, and O'Brien so protective.

[Elenita]

Damn, "Move Along Home" and "Duet" came from the same people. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that concept.

And, if I had to start the Kira thread over again, I would have opened with, "I'm sure all you Starfleet explorers find this absolutely fascinating. But I'm a Bajoran administrator. This is not what I signed up for!"

[Vercingetorix]

After TBS finished Angel, I decided to try to keep up with Spike's run of DS9, rewatching the whole series. We'll see how long I can keep up with 10 hrs per week. First set of rewatching comments:

Emissary: Surprisingly good for a first episode. It's easy to forget how revolutionary it was to set up a Star Trek cast that basically didn't like each other, but it was revolutionary, and cool. I still can't decide if Avery Brooks is overacting, or if Sisko is just the most manic human officer in Starfleet. It's wild to see what all of these characters started out as, especially Jake, but also Dax, Bashir, Kira, and Dukat. They are in for some changes over the next few years. As to the central point, it's wierd to see Sisko having a fundamentally linear conversation with supposedly non-linear aliens, but I think you can get past it by assuming that Sisko percieves it as linear. Finally, I missed the resolution - did Sisko decide to stop existing at the moment of Jennifer's death, or did the prophets just accept that he did?

A Man Alone: Well, it's good to know that if Alexander Siddig needs work, he can always helm "Star Trek:CSI." Seriously - cut the lights and add some flashy music, and this would be a CSI ep. front to back.

I am not quite as irritated as I was 12 years ago about Bashir cloning an entire person in order to solve a crime, but I'm still pretty irritated. I want to pretend there's a containment field around the unknown biological experiment, but Bashir and his assistants keep poking it. It would have served them right if it had eaten them all.

Also, I want to kick Odo for making the deduction that if a man is murdered in a privately run holosuite containing only the DNA of the victim and the investigators, the only possible suspects are the investigators. Quark should have been Odo's prime suspect, followed by someone else tampering with the holodeck.

I was not a fan of the school subplot, but I liked the fact that, notwithstanding Sisko's anti-ferengi prejudice, Jake and Nog ended up being good influences on each other rather than bad. On the subject of prejudice, Avery Brooks did a very nice job confronting the lynch mob. (Morn in particular should have been ashamed of himseld). DS9 was often very good on race, without jamming it down the audience's throat, and I think Brooks deserves most of the credit.

Julian's face when he thinks Sisko is asking him to lunch is hilarious, as is his confrontation with the Rubik's sphere. Finally, this is *not* the Rom we eventually knew;I'll buy the change from stereotypical ferengi to loving and remarried dad, but as I've said, if Odo, after seven years, thinks it's absurd to believe Rom could have fixed a replicator, then I believe him.

Past Prologue: For some unknown reason, Spike skipped this ep., which is a serious shame, because I would like to see the whole Kira arc.

Babel: Ah, torturing O'Brien. Who knew it would get to be such a habit? Everyone did a pretty good job with the material, and Nana Visitor and Arman Shimmerman did particularly good jobs. Quark's joy in running ops was hilarious. (Still, I have to assume the "ferengi immune system" wasn't all that; or where were his staff?) Siddig was fine, as were the rest.

I like the way Sisko and Kira slump in frustration when they realize they've caught the bug, but it would have been nice for at least one of them to start punching a wall and yelling "bread, Bread, BREAD, BREADITY BREAD!!!!" [then in a resigned sigh] "window."

Edited by Vercingetorix, Mar 8, 2005 @ 9:19 AM.

[Locutus]

Actually, Vercingetorix, Spike did run "Past Prologue", but they ran it before their airing of "What You Leave Behind". Both parts of WYLB would have aired on separate days otherwise.

[PhantomChic]

but it would have been nice for at least one of them to start punching a wall and yelling "bread, Bread, BREAD, BREADITY BREAD!!!!" [then in a resigned sigh] "window."

That would have been brilliant!

[the47thman]

Finally, I missed the resolution - did Sisko decide to stop existing at the moment of Jennifer's death, or did the prophets just accept that he did?

I think that's up for interpretation; I always saw it as the former.

[tothemax]

Spike did run "Past Prologue", but they ran it before their airing of "What You Leave Behind". Both parts of WYLB would have aired on separate days otherwise.

Does that mean someone at Spike actually pays attention to DS9? Interesting.

[tothemax]

Nothing to see here...

Edited by tothemax, Mar 8, 2005 @ 1:48 PM.

[EnglishMuffin]

I still can't decide if Avery Brooks is overacting, or if Sisko is just the most manic human officer in Starfleet.

A bit of both, I think.

It would have served them right if it had eaten them all.

Heh. That would have been a great episode.

God, is it 12 years now since season 1 began? I'm getting old.

Edited by EnglishMuffin, Mar 8, 2005 @ 3:19 PM.

[tothemax]

God, is it 12 years now since season 1 began?

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA. I can't hear you!

[KiwiRaptor]

I apologise if this has been posted before, but Sky TV in the UK just started running DS9 Season One daily. (6 PM on Sky Mix.) I'm still kicking myself for choosing today to do my grocery shopping after work, and missing half of the pilot as a result.

[SVNBob]

Finally, I missed the resolution - did Sisko decide to stop existing at the moment of Jennifer's death, or did the prophets just accept that he did?

I think that's up for interpretation; I always saw it as the former.

At the very least, they made him realize that mentally and emotionally he was still stuck there, and needed to move on to be linear again.

But the quote referenced in this sequence and used for this thread's title takes on another meaning at the end of the series. Sisko does exist there - in the wormhole with the Prophets. It could be argued that there are two Siskos in the wormhole; one beginning along the path of the Prophets and one resting at the end of it.

[dbrugg]

It could be argued that there are two Siskos in the wormhole; one beginning along the path of the Prophets and one resting at the end of it.

This prompts me to ask, did we ever see Sisko meet 'himself' in an Orb vision? I don't think so, but it's been a while since I've regularly watched the episodes.

[Vercingetorix]

Some more Season One thoughts. (I'm already falling behind. Curse you Spike, cut to one a day! You're killing me!)

Captive Pursuit: An ok SF episode, and it did a nice job of showing us that the Gamma Quadrant would be different and unpredictable. Colm Meaney carries this episode, and does a great job.

Minor points: I loved Quark's efforts to be a sympathetic barkeep - oops, "host." One of the most surprising things about S1 was the amazing job Shimerman did in playing a sypathetic Ferengi who was still a Ferengi to the core. I also like the way they set up O'Brien's initial attitudes toward Julian and the "Cardies" - they're both there without being in anyone's face. Odo's efforts to move slowly were pretty funny, as was the final exchange between O'Brien and Sisko.

Lastly, did the lead hunter die at the end? I couldn't tell.

Q-Less: Meh. By this point, Q had really started to wear out his welcome in the franchise, and Vash annoyed me from the start. I hate to impose my human values on alien cultures, but the "oomax as negotating tool" scene struck me as offensive. (To quote Samuel Jackson "Let me put it to you this way - would you give me oomax?"). Also, the threat to the station and its resolution had the twin problems of being (1) obvious and (2) boring, and DeLancie crossed that fine line between annoying the other characters on the show and annoying me.

Minor points: "You hit me!" is still a great line, as is the look on Sisko's face after he does. I also loved the first appearance of Julian using the Starfleet medical exam as a pick-up line. (On that note, it's pretty clear that the writers' ideas for Julian in S1 is that he's very talented, but not nearly as great as he thinks, and that he's chosen DS9 not because "that's where heroes are made," but because he thinks he'll be a big fish in a small pond. I liked the Julian retcon, but you really have to squint to make it fit with the S1 episodes).

[Vercingetorix]

More Season One thoughts:

Dax: A very servicable Star Trek episode, if not exceptional. I was surprised, though, that there wasn't existing Starfleet and Trill law about a new host's legal responsibility for prior hosts' acts. Didn't they make a big point, during the Klingon samurai episode, that Jadzia couldn't (and shouldn't) be bound by Kurzon's promises? The Trill minister seemed absolutely bemused by the questions, as if he had never considered the issue before. I would have liked the episode a little better if they had told us what Trill and Starfleet law was about Trill responsibility, and had the hearing be about whether Bajor would hold Jadzia responsible for Kurzon's acts.

The episode had good characterization, though, for Odo, as well as Jadzia and Sisko. (Man, those high-waisted pants make Terry Farrell look even taller than she actually is. I'm convinced they poofed up Siddig's hair just so that he would appear to be about the same height).

Finally, did they ever say where O'Brian was? You would think he would have come in handy during that tractor beam foofarah.

The Passenger: IMHO, this is where S1 really started to wobble. I couldn't believe that this group of scientists wouldn't even consider the possibility that someone other than the investigator might be the host. Also, Siddig's "scary" voice and scenery chewing overenunciation was way too far over the top, as was the hilarious scene of him gripping his brain in agony during the climax. Finally, if I understand the episode, Quark hired three mercenaries to hijack a shipment of life-or-death medicine, and at least two of the mercs are presumably alive. That strikes me as pretty bad, but by next episode, everyone's back to "oh, that loveable scamp!" Grr.

[Isaboe]

Some more Season One thoughts. (I'm already falling behind. Curse you Spike, cut to one a day! You're killing me!)

Netflix saved me on this stuff. Waiting for Season 2 now.

What I liked about DS9 that the other series didn't seem to do, is get everyone out there and fully expected the audience to be smart enough to stay caught up. It's like-Ok, here are the characters, here's their name, rank, here's what they do. On to the stories now. Too many shows spend the whole series "reminding" us what they're supposed to be doing.

[Curare]

I liked Vortex for having Quark go off on Odo about the reason no one ever sees his people is because they're a bunch hiding paranoid beings. In light of what happens later I found that exchange very funny. Though I would have liked to know what lie they told that alien race who wanted their criminal back. Also it was nice to see that the Vulcans still had a fleet seperate from Starfleet. DS9 was great if for no other reason that it began to fill in more of the background on who populated the Trek-verse.

[Cleo256]

Finally, did they ever say where O'Brian was? You would think he would have come in handy during that tractor beam foofarah.

Sometime during the first season, Sisko's log mentions that the O'Briens are back on Earth for Keiko's grandmother's 100th birthday party, or some such family event. It keeps O'Brien away from the station for a few consecutive weeks, and eventually he comes back and is teaching school while she's still on Earth.

It's a neat bit of continuity, actually, but you really have to pay attention to catch on to it.

The behind-the-scenes explanation was that Colm Meaney was off shooting a movie.

[Vercingetorix]

One more Babel thought: it would have been kind of cool if they had at least tried to use the Universal Translator to get around the problem. You'd think it would be the first thing Sisko and Dax would think of.

(On the other hand, like holopeople, transporters, and replicators, the UT is one of the Star Trek devices that is way too powerful to think about too closely).

[KiwiRaptor]

If I understand the universal translator right, it needs to decde some kind of underlying logic or structure from the language(s) to make the translation. It seemed to me that that what people said under the influence of the virus was completely random, so the translator wouldn't have been much help.

What I liked about this episode was that the writers were one step ahead of me about what the virus did. My first thought on hearing that the Bajorans did it was "They planted a virus that just makes people talk funny? Some terrorists." Then people started passing out...

[Curare]

Watching s1 on Spike TV, I forgot that there was so much tension between Kira and Sisko. I'm so lost on the timeline that lead to the Cardassian withdrawl and Starfleet running the station. I just Duet and I have to say I love Harris Yulin. I have to say that I liked how Kira changes over the years on the series and how she doesn't. In s1 she still bristles at having to wear the uniform even if it is that of a free Bajor. The word terrorist is used so much I doubt if they were launching the series now if the word would be used so much.

[Vercingetorix]

More mini-reviews:

Move Along Home: Didn't annoy me nearly as much as it did 12 years ago. It's a forgetable SF episode. Good: Shimerman and Auberjonois both do really good work (it's amazing how effectively Shimerman makes those teeth work for him), and I like that Star Fleet values result in the players "losing" the game. Also, I like the Frank Zappa guy explaining that his sticks "have many uses." Bad: The heck? Odo figures out that station visitors have taken the senior crew hostage and he doesn't even stop the game? I would expect, at a minimum, that he call up every security officer on board and get some answers from the Frank Zappa guy.

It would be fun to read Sisko's first contact report. "The Deltans came to the station, and played dabo for hours. Then they kidnapped the senior crew and made us play hopscoch and drink space-pane against our will. Then they left. Allamarein!"

The Nagus: This was the first time I saw this ep., and it wasn't as good as I had heard. The Ferengi aren't as bad as they could be, but I was pretty disappointed that (1) Quark was caught so flatfooted by the doublecross (although maybe the excuse is that it was so non-Ferengi that he didn't see it coming) and (2) after going on about how great it is to have the bar, the Nagus leaves Quark in it. (Although I guess you can fanwank that as a vote of confidence for Quark, or maybe Moogie's influence).

On the plus side, the Jake-Nog b-plot was very good. Also, we've discussed Rom's change, and I can buy that the late series Rom is the same guy who tried to kill his brother in S1. As Rom and Nog both explain, Rom's just not a very good Ferengi, at least by traditional standards.

Vortex: I found this one sort of predictable. It's fun to watch once you know how the Dominion War arc will play out, but beyond that, there's not much to say.

Battle Lines: With this ep., the Season 1 slump was over. With the exception of "The Forsaken," every episode from here on ranges from "worth watching" to "don't miss." Kira's pain at confronting her past, and at leaving Kai Opaka, were both great, and the absence of the Kai sets up a terrific arc, and I loved the idea of the Sissiphean prison planet, as well as the idea that Kai Opaka is prophesied to minister to non-Bajorans.

Some nitpicks: There never seems to be much of an uproar on Bajor, despite the fact that Sisko and Kira took Opaka through the wormhole and left here there. Also, between this and "The Passenger," you would think Bashir would have about 100 years worth of medical advances to make.

[Vercingetorix]

This is probably an obvious question, but did "Pup" from The Forsaken ever get mentioned again? Did O'Brien just leave him in the computer when he left for Earth?