New BG vs Old BG and Other Comparisons
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 1:06 AM
TV: "Space: Above and Beyond"
Movies: WWII films by the dozen
Video Games: The Wing Commander saga
Literature: Literally an entire genre--Space Opera--with enough examples to keep us here for quite some time.
The characters are a real mixed bag, and I have to sit back for a while and think if they are archtypes I've seen elsewhere. Certainly characters like the President, Number Six, and even NewBoomer reach far deeper than the Original Galactica show.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 1:48 AM
Having only seen BSG through, er, cousins, I've only seen/heard the SkyOne title music. I don't have cable. What's the US version like?
I'll share mine, if you'll share yours:
Title with Number Six saying "Previously on Battlestar Galactica."
Single piano note pounded over and over during the following:
Shots of two cylons: "The Cylons were created by Man"
Atomic explosion: "They rebelled"
Some violins join the piano note
Shots of the Human Cylon models from the end of the miniseries: "They Evolved"
Shot of Number Six "They Look"
Six and Baltar kissing: "HUMAN"
Black screen: "SOME ARE PROGRAMED TO THINK THEY ARE HUMAN"
Split screen of Caprica Boomer and Galactica Boomer: "There are many copies."
Black screen: "And they have a Plan"
Then scenes from previous episodes.
The show starts, and can go on for as long as 8 minutes before the "real" title song begins.
There's a little minor-keyed background music, but it's mostly religious-y chanting, sort of like Earth: First Contact (hey--I only watched the first season!) During the singing, we see:
Shots the Cylons miniseries attack
President sworn in
Galactica flying off
Then we switch to military drumming and scenes from the current episode. Which has taught us if we don't want to be spoiled, close your eyes when you hear the drums.
OK, What's Skiffy done to it?
Edited to move to this thread...I think it's a better fit.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:01 AM
(not criticizing, just commenting)
I'm lucky, I've seen up as far as episode 11, and I really enjoyed it once I stopped thinking of it as a remake and started thinking of it as a damn good show that just happened to have the same name/premise/characters as the original.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 9:11 AM
That's not so much being alien as establishing a distinct and different human culture reminicent of ancient earth cultures. The current incarnation is more about being a reflection of current cultural and social issues.
The biggest difference I can see between old and new BSG - in the original, TPTB bent over backwards to make the show 'alien'. All the centons and yarrens and mushies and daggits.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:10 AM
The current incarnation is more about being a reflection of current cultural and social issues.
Which is what I liked about the original series and don't like about the new one. Granted, the old show was complete cheese but at least they tried to create a different culture. Every time I hear the characters in the new show use a phrase or word or reference that derives from our history and culture it bugs.
Edited by caia1970, Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:11 AM.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:33 AM
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:39 AM
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:47 AM
Granted, the old show was complete cheese but at least they tried to create a different culture.
I know we're gonna end up debating semantics here, but I take the teeniest, tiniest issue with the way you say this. You make it sound like the "Galactica" creators didn't even try. But that's not the way it happened. Interviews with Moore and other supporting material make it really clear that the creators considered the possibility of making the show about a different culture and explicitly rejected it.
It's not that creating a different culture would have been too hard for them or anything. It's that that's not the story they wanted to tell. The theme here is, "What if this happened to us?"
I totally see your point of view, but try thinking of it as an axiom. Kind of like the title card that opened both the pilot and all the regular episodes: "The cylons were created by man." That's the writers' way of saying, "Here's how it is. These are our conceits. Accept them without question so we can tell you a good story."
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 11:32 AM
That kind of bugs me even more that they just dismissed whole parts of the mythology of the show. That's what made it what it was. I remember watching the show as a kid and that's what I liked about it most. If that's what the original fans are angry about, (and I admit I don't know, I haven't been following it) then I don't blame them.
Which is not to say that it's not a decent show in and of itself, it's a pretty good show, I just feel that I've been manipulated. I was promised 'Battlestar Galactica' but what I've been given is 'Sci-Fi show with BSG flavouring'.
Edited by caia1970, Jan 17, 2005 @ 11:37 AM.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 11:39 AM
I was promised 'Battlestar Galactica' but what I've been given is 'Sci-Fi show with BSG flavouring'.
Who promised you that ? Here in the UK, as best I recall, we were very much told upfront, through the promos etc. that this was a "re-imagined" Battlestar Galactica. Have Skiffy being saying otherwise ?
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 11:55 AM
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 12:34 PM
If you're going to call something "Battlestar Galactica," there are certain expectations. One viewer might disagree with another on what those expectations are (is the lack of daggits an issue? is the inclusion of Boxey needed? etc.), but if you're simply going to tell your own story, as Moore claims above, then do it with your own damn universe.
A series with "Star Trek" in it apparently has to have Vulcans, Warp Drive, and the like. It's why "Enterprise" HAS Andorians and Vulcans and warp-capable ships, because that's the background of the universe. To do away with substantial parts of it because you don't want to tell that story -- it's like fanfic, IMHO, someone's too lazy or unmotivated to actually make their own universe whole-cloth, so they take as much as possible from another, and their end-product doesn't resemble what it "should."
Now, that doesn't mean I totally accept that it is SO different that it cannot keep the same name (I think, as in the recaps, that man creating the Cyclons was unneeded and detracts from the series, as does the Cylon fixation on God), but I can see the argument and agree with the rationales. If you don't like the weight that comes with the name, don't use it. The American "Godzilla" suffered from this, IMHO. Had it been called ANYTHING else, it would have been fine, but calling a mutated iguana Godzilla was a slap in the face to fans, and the movie suffered accordlingly :)
Personally, I think Moore is getting to use all the stuff he wanted to use and talk about in "Star Trek: Voyager," but couldn't get permission to attempt. Finite resources, ships staying damaged (no shiny reset), melding of personnel, and the like all sound a LOT like the article he wrote talking about what was wrong with ST:VOY.
I'll keep watching, but more to see which Vancouver actors/actresses I know from other series (like Da Vinci's Inquest) show up :)
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 12:41 PM
I understand why one would have certain expectations for a new BG series but to me the new series adds weight the cornball original never had. I really wouldn't want to watch another Chariots of the Gods meets Star Wars series and I'm thankful I'm not.
If you don't like the weight that comes with the name, don't use it.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 1:32 PM
I do miss centons and yahrens (or however you spell them), the fake time units. I was overjoyed that cubits remain the currency, and they still play Triad card games.
Now I can just hope that Apollo will arrange a pickup Pyramid game with those odd lycra shorts and shoulderpads outfits!
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 1:51 PM
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 3:12 PM
I think I'd have switched off the TV if Adama had one of those Jedi Robes on. The Craggy face AND the robes? Jeebus help us all.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:18 PM
If they had added the drama and 'weight', as Glark put it, of the new with the 'mythology' of the original, then (for me at least) it would have been perfect.
Unless you have the gift of prescience, it would seem to me that it's a little premature to say what the BSG writers did or didn't do with the mythology of the original.
I have a real problem with those who say 'this is not Galactica', not because I think they are wrong, but I just can't understand where they are coming from. My case: I'm close to 40 years old, and I'll get less close as the years pass, I saw Galactica the first time around, and it was a significant part of my childhood. I had the toys, when my parents could afford them. I wanted to be Starbuck and I wanted a Daggit, damnit.
I could understand the 'it's not Galactica' vibe if the writers had chosen to *continue* the series rather than re-imagine it and start from the begining.
Put it this way, if you really love the '79 Ford Mustang - buy one of those, but if you decide to buy a 2005 Mustang, you'd expect it to have evolved, no ? You'd expect airbags at least. Surely you wouldn't bemoan the fact that it didn't have an 8 track.
Edited by kissmychakram, Jan 17, 2005 @ 8:03 PM.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:58 PM
Captain Apollo, Lt. Starbuck, Ensign Greenbean are okay but then you had Flight Sergeant Jolly and Colonel Tigh which are from different branches and didn't make sense. It's not unbelieveable as Buffy Season Four was so at least I can enjoy the old series in reruns.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 9:16 PM
I think if they had called it something else, people would complain that they were just re-doing Galactica and pretending it was original idea. In that kind of no-win situation, you might as well go with a title that will be familiar, and which will mean that some people know the basic premise from the start.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 9:23 PM
So far, they've left out all the shit that annoyed me from the first one. Time units and clothing. Jesus the clothing. If I never have to see another speculative future clothing like Jake Sisko's or Wes Crusher's again, I'll be frelling happy.
Edited by Hannibal Khan, Jan 17, 2005 @ 9:24 PM.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 9:41 PM
When I was six, this show was the shit. I had to sneak to watch it because my parents loathed it. The early episodes (the Kobol ones in particular) had a certain depth... a majesty that sadly was not fulfilled. Lorne Greene had a religious precense, of an all knowing father, that Olmos does not.
On the other hand, thats about all I as an adult can say that's still good about old galactica. The writing of the majority of the episodes was derivative and often moronic. There were way too many recycled Bonanza scripts. As a child, Starbuck (and Faceman) were fun loving rogues. As an adult, I have been the woman in a relationship with that sort of man and it's not all cute smiles and catfights between hot chicks who become best pals. In old Galactica, women are Legal Space Whores ( a well loved scifi tradition), or the Commander's daughter (both Sheba and Athena qualify as women who owe their high in comparison to the other women's position to daddy, particularly Sheba) or Grasping Harpies (Siress Bellamy) or Feminists Who Need To Learn Their Place (Consider the message sent by killing off Serina who wanted to do more than fill a traditonal female role as the Official Wife and Mother)
Sometimes, things change and it's not good, but this new show is not really an example of that.
Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 11:29 PM
But then, my parents hadn't even met when the original Battlestar Galactica aired, so I don't have any fond memories of the original series.
Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 12:20 AM
Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 7:55 AM
In some ways I think the show MOST resembles "Space: Above and Beyond", but if you look into Sci-Fi literature instead of merely to the old show and other TV and movie sources, I think there are tons of influences.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Heinlein's classic, "Starship Troopers" (the novel, not that retch-fest Verhoven put together under the Master's name). It's particularly brought to mind, for me, by the ethical dilemma facing both Apollo and Starbuck in "33" (Do we take the chance of possibly killing thousands? If we don't, it might turn out they're already dead, and there goes everyone else - but then again, they might just be fine, and acting like frightened civilians...).
I do remember the original - and the episode that lost my childhood interest. "Ice Station Zero" was crap, but that wasn't the one that turned the trick. No, it was the one where Apollo found a partially-disabled Cylon - on a world straight out of a bad episode of "Gunsmoke". The local humans had somehow never heard of Cylons, and kept calling him "Ol' One-Eye"; the situation was resolved by a shootout at high noon; Apollo had a minor thing going with the schoolmarm; the bar had thick metal swinging doors, for Kobol's sake!! That was the one that finally had me shaking my head and saying, "Dad - this thing's pretty bad, isn't it?"
My father replied, "Yes, it is. If there were any other SF on TV, I wouldn't even watch this."
Now, there is other SF on TV. Aren't we glad they decided to play with a good concept, and rewrite all the bad parts? :-)
Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 9:19 AM
At first, I was really concerned about Starbuck being a girl, since I thought the camaraderie of Starbuck and Apollo was so fun in the original, and I really loved Starbuck as a little kid. Now having seen the miniseries and the first two episodes, I think that the different dynamic is very successful, although I suspect they could have been equally successful and produced a lot less of a squawk if they'd simply added a female pilot or turned one of the other pilots into a girl. In any case, what they did end up with is extremely cool and dark and satisfying, I think.
Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 10:06 AM
It just seemed like business as usual.
Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 10:23 AM
For the civilians, I can only think that it's shock.
Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 10:38 AM