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Boomer's A What?!: "The Plan" SPOILERS ONLY


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#1

Glark

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Posted Jan 16, 2005 @ 10:32 PM

Spoilery!

Please see the FAQ for special BG spoiler rules.

Edited by Jacob, Sep 23, 2005 @ 1:10 PM.


#2

Hannibal Khan

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:21 AM

I'm curious, is there always, at least physically somewhere a #6 that loves Baltar? And does Baltar ever find out if what's in his head is a chip or not?

#3

Benito

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:34 AM

re: various episodes

About Baltar's potential "chip" in his head? -- As of the 11th episode, no... Baltar doesn't find about a chip, or lack thereof. Actually, and this is a HUGE spoiler so cover your eyes even here if you have regrets, he comes to think (with her help) that she is some kind of manifestation of God.

As for physical #6s, even in the first few we see one on Caprica, right? Well we see a lot more of them, including eventually one on Galactica itself.

I trust that the above isn't TOO spoilery, striking a nice balance because the "why" and "how" of the above items will still be fun to find out. Until you guy pummel it out of those of us who either live in the UK or have lovely people who sent us recordings.

Edited by Benito, Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:37 AM.


#4

Hannibal Khan

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:37 AM

Right, and the one on Galactica, is that the one that loves Baltar?

#5

Benito

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:48 AM

re: various episodes (sorry, like last post it's too mixed a question being answered to associate a specific episode)

All of the Number Sixes seem to be of a single mind--at least more so than the multiple Boomers. Their viewpoints seem to largely be the same, and I think we can conclude that if one really loves Baltar, they all do, but similarly they could all be faking it. We ARE given at least one hint though that one of the Sixes on Caprica is somewhat distressed by Caprica Boomer's apparent real connection to that Helo guy. So that supports the idea that there ain't no real love. Then again, we also hear at least from one other Cylon a pretty strong confirmation that the Bots have some individual fear of death, assuming they can't confirm that their consciousness is being beamed back to Cylon Central, wherever that is. So that suggests SOME individuality, just as CapricaBoomer's behavior eventually does.

What's not so clear is what the connection between the Six in Baltar's head and the physical ones is. We don't know if she's real or a figment. If so, we don't know if she's still part of whatever collective consciousness the Cylons have. We don't even strictly know which side she's on. She could be a manifestation of God, a chip, a psychic projection, or just Baltar's crazy guilt-driven mind.

Physically, does Baltar ever have sex again with a Number Six? No.

#6

Hannibal Khan

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 10:51 AM

Man, poor Baltar. That'd make all the backstabbing worth it.

#7

Ravenwing263

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 2:46 PM

Best thread title. EVER.

#8

Melk

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 5:14 PM

Spoilers for Episode 12.

Well then, I guess my hopes for no Apollo/Starbuck romance were absolutely dashed into the dirt. And it seems like the Prez has lost touch with reality, message from the gods or not.

#9

Belaqua

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 5:41 PM

Spoilers for episode 12

Quite frankly, the latest ep rocked hardcore IMO.

TBH, I totally expected Apollo/Starbuck and I really don't mind it at all. In fact, I'm going to try and encourage the spirit of honesty and sharing in this fabulous, shiny new forum by admitting that I actually like the idea of them together. After all, someone has to start making babies, and I get the feeling that the two of them would produce such pretty offspring that it'd be a shame not to have them screw for real at some point.

I gave a little cheer when the much discussed Whiteboard of Life made a cameo appearance. I noticed the numbers on it seemed to read 87,000ish, but I can't remember how many people we had at the end of '33'. Still, it's nice that it was there. See ya next time we need an infusion of tragedy/cautious hope for the future!

Edited by Belaqua, Jan 17, 2005 @ 5:43 PM.


#10

laurabeth

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 6:08 PM

SPOILERS for episode 12 below.

I think the numbers read 47,500 or so, which pretty much tallies with 33. Perhaps a little more people, but I can;t be sure.

This episode was too, too fabulous. As always, I'm all about the Baltar/Six love (theirloveissopsychotic). The duel conversation Baltar was having with Six and Laura was very nice writing. Baltar didn't come over as quite as insane as he has done in the past when he's wittering to Six with other people present.

And his damn near compassionate conversation and suggestion to Boomer was lovely too. The girl that plays Boomer is growing on me. But did she miss on purpose? Is she even allowed by her Cylon subconscious to do that? Poor Boomer. And poor president Laura. She's totally flipping out.

Bad things?
Six's top/skirt combo was fugly.

#11

InigoMontoya

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 6:17 PM

1-12 Kobal's Last Gleaming, Part 1

Way too dense and serious an episode to spout about without deep thought so I am going for the shallow... that moment when Baltar was simultaneously addressed by the Pres and Six was comedy gold.

laurabeth, I promise it took me ten minutes to compose the above so great minds and all...

Edited by InigoMontoya, Jan 17, 2005 @ 6:20 PM.


#12

Melk

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 6:20 PM

Ep. 12 spoilers.

Did anyone else connect the possibility of the Cylon raider jumping all the way back to Caprica with the possibility that they might pick up Helo en route? Or am I just being overly hopeful that they might find a way to keep him alive AND get his ass off Caprica.

Again with the crazy Baltar love. He's nuts, he's a creep, he's damn entertaining.

One thing that has been bugging me a little is that I get the feeling Jamie Bamber hasn't quite decided on how to play Apollo. Initially he was very softly spoken, didn't get angry (not even when Starbuck confessed to unfairly passing Zak on basic flight) and seemed very rational and level headed. Now all of a sudden he's shouting at anything that moves and acting like a jerk.

This next bit is more speculation really, but it's speculation based on the OS so it might possibly be a tiny tad spoilery.

Do I rightly remember that in the Original BG the gods of Kobol gave Apollo the location of Earth? I just thought it might tie in with this arrow of Apollo stuff.

#13

some1105

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 6:42 PM

I always want to be as completely spoiled as possible--on the assumption that there are others out there like me who live in the US, you might be interested in the ep summaries at the Sky One website in the UK (I'm not sure the protocol of whether it's ok to link to directly from here). Just go to their site, find BSG, and look around.

The site's summaries have pretty basic plot information from all the eps that have aired in the UK so far, and it certainly doesn't duplicate what we'll be getting from our very own recapper, but for your average "what's going to happen, who's screwing whom, and who's going to live or die," for a given ep, it's got it covered.

Edited by some1105, Jan 17, 2005 @ 6:56 PM.


#14

kissmychakram

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:07 PM

Spoilers for Episode 12 - look away now

Holy Hannah. I guess the love that dare not speak it's name is a racing certainty now. I admit to be peeved, but I'll live with it. Gods, how good was the opening sequence ? I'm really feeling for Boomer in all her incarnations.

I'm of mixed opinions as to whether Believably Bonkers Baltar wanted CapricaBoomer to off herself or not.

I think the Prez has been smoking too much weed, but I completely understand how Starbuck would buy into the mission. IMO Thrace needs a cause.

Goodness, this episode was *so* good. I need more time to think about it. And yes, Melk, I'm totally hoping that Helo will be rescued along with Apollo's protuberence, I mean arrow.

Edited by kissmychakram, Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:08 PM.


#15

NikkiJ

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:19 PM

Spoliers for Ep 12.

I'm too tired for proper thinking at the moment but I'm with Melk and kissmychakram on picking up Helo from Caprica. I mentioned that to my Mum as we were watching.

One quick question, regarding the sex in the beginning was it Apollo in the shot? I thought his hair was short but it was very quick cutting and I was trying to figure out who the woman was!

#16

laurabeth

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:36 PM

Spoilers for 12

Good gods, the opening was fabulous, wasn't it? I think they were going for a kind of microcosm of human behavious. Violence, sex, death. All set to cool music.

NikkiJ, the person gettin' down with Starbuck in the opening sequence was Baltar. Unfortunately she whispered the name "Lee" (Apollo) at a...critical point, shall we say? Which did not make for a happy man, and explains the drunkenly obnoxious behaviour he displays towards Apollo & Starbuck later on.

Oh yeah, Starbuck's totally meeting Helo on Caprica. Or at least they just miss each other by a cat's whisker.

I've been thinking about Galactica!Boomer. If she killed herself would her consciousness transfer into GoodCaprica!Boomer? Or one of the other NotGood!Boomers? And would they then be able to trace the position of the ship/amouunt of weaponry/people's character flaws? That would be a Very Bad Thing.

#17

payndz

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:44 PM

1x12 teaser: "Lee!"

BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAHHH!

Funniest line (word?) in the show to date - and in one of the grimmest episodes, at that.

What I want to know is: if Boomer (in both delicious flavours) and Baltar are technically the bad guys, how come I also find them the most sympathetic characters? Does that make me a bad person? ;)

Poor Boomer. The most gorgeous woman on the show, and every week they find a new horrible way to beat the shit out of her! What's next, spray her face with acid?

#18

NikkiJ

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:50 PM

Ep 12 stuff.

laurabeth I got (eventually) who was actually shagging. I was just checking if anyone else had seen short hair or if I'm going mad. I should have phrased the question better but it's very late!

#19

InigoMontoya

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 7:51 PM

Regarding Episode 12:

NikkiJ, the person gettin' down with Starbuck in the opening sequence was Baltar.


I've been running this back and forth, freezing at appropriate moments. Shut up.

Actually, whilst it is Baltar that she is thrashing about with, I think, after careful study, the person we see, until the denoument, is the one she is imagining. Jamie Bamber has lovely shoulders. And other naked bits.

Edited because computers hate me.

Edited by InigoMontoya, Jan 18, 2005 @ 9:40 PM.


#20

mrsstroh

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 8:07 PM

Jamie Bamber has lovely shoulders. And other naked bits.

He's just downright yummy. I highly recommend Horatio Hornblower DVD's for more Bamber action. In a naval uniform, no less.

#21

Surlyb0i

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Posted Jan 17, 2005 @ 9:23 PM

What I want to know is: if Boomer (in both delicious flavours) and Baltar are technically the bad guys, how come I also find them the most sympathetic characters? Does that make me a bad person? ;)


No. I think that's one of the better aspects of the show, they're <i>not</i> specifically bad guys. It's all about the shades of grey here. Circumstances (and sometimes programming) dictate what they do more than evil intent. Ok, less so with Baltar, but still...

And word, they need to stop beating up Boomer.

#22

ganthet

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 12:57 AM

One thing that has been bugging me a little is that I get the feeling Jamie Bamber hasn't quite decided on how to play Apollo. Initially he was very softly spoken, didn't get angry (not even when Starbuck confessed to unfairly passing Zak on basic flight) and seemed very rational and level headed. Now all of a sudden he's shouting at anything that moves and acting like a jerk.


In the mini, he seemed a little pissed when Starbuck told him about Zak but mainly just surprised. He set his sights on hating his father for so long that to be confronted with the fact that someone else (whom he had feelings for especially) was more at fault for his death probably shook his Etch-A-Sketch a bit.

As for the ep, GREAT. Possibly the best one so far, if only because so many other plot threads have started to come to fruition. I'm not sure Baltar falling for Starbuck is quite so in character, given that he's a bit too narcissistic to fall in love, but I could buy that he was incredibly charmed by a girl who was even more confident than he.

Not sure I should use spoiler tags for the last ep, but since it hasn't even aired, what the hell. Given that the series is due to end with Baltar and co. possibly stuck on Kobol, Galactica likely getting attacked by that baseship, and Adama being shot by Boomer, not to mention a whole host of other unresolved threads, this show MUST be renewed.

I just wonder if it would be better (and more in keeping with the series' tone) if they didn't end up finding Earth. Though it seems pretty unlikely given the prophecy line that's becoming increasingly emphasized.

#23

captain sam

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 3:59 AM

1-12: Kobol's Last Gleaming

Holy moly, what an episode. There so much in it I...have to use an ellipsis.

I'm really feeling the chemistry between JB and KS. I especially loved the look she gave him when he chewed her out for leaving him out of the loop and going to Tighe first. The progression from miniseries to this episode is really noticeable as KS emotes with her eyes so wonderfully now.

Also, mad props to the scene between Baltar and Boomer. I feel that Grace Park is sometimes underrated, as she has to switch between Caprica!Boomer and Galactica!Boomer in nearly every episode and handles it with aplomb. The look on Six's face as she realizes what Balter is telling Boomer really says everything I felt about the scene.

The quality of this episode made me squee like a fangirl. Oh wait...

ETA:

Good gods, the opening was fabulous, wasn't it? I think they were going for a kind of microcosm of human behavious. Violence, sex, death. All set to cool music.

Big fat word. The violins set the perfect tone.

Edited by captain sam, Jan 18, 2005 @ 4:14 AM.


#24

InigoMontoya

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 4:11 AM

Regarding Episode 12:

I'm not sure Baltar falling for Starbuck is quite so in character, given that he's a bit too narcissistic to fall in love, but I could buy that he was incredibly charmed by a girl who was even more confident than he.


I wasn't sure it was love or even being charmed. It didn't feel coincidental that Starbuck was as unlike Six as any he was likely to find. What was great was that he was as much her tool to satisfying an itch as she was for him. He just didn't know it until she blurted out Apollo's name. His petulant response to her faux pas seemed more like bruised ego than crushed dreams to me.

Edited by InigoMontoya, Jan 18, 2005 @ 9:40 PM.


#25

burping frog

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 4:54 AM

Spoilers for Ep. 12

The opener was one of the best I'd ever seen! It was soooo cool. Okay, now I sound like a fangirl. I don't care!

And did anyone else think that before the embarrassing outburst, the sex was kinda hot? All sweaty and rooowwwrrrrr. I honestly don't know if it's the moral ambiguity, the Magnificent Bastard-esque hairdo, or the fact that he has more sex-type scenes than anyone else, but I am finding Baltar ridiculously hot these days.
Liked the touch that Starbuck picked up her dress at the end, to denote that it was after last weeks party. Liked the little insert of Baltar afterwards wrapping a sheet around him and taking a steadying drink whilst ignoring Six sitting beside him. (That is one example IMO of a little scene that would be cut for time in another show, but here is kept in because it adds to the atmos.)

Apollo and Starbuck. Yeeeuuch. Why?? I can only hope that by flying off to Caprica any *vom*romantic*vom* developments between them is put off for a good while. I accept now that the producers are determined to have it some day - I just hope it's later rather than sooner. (For one thing, Apollo needs to get laid real bad by someone else first). For what it's worth, I do think that if they got together they'd make each other miserable. I mean, they punch each other, for Gods sake! Sooner or later they'd have an argument and whack!
(Incidentally, why the hell did she apologise to Lee? For shagging someone else? What's that shit about?)

Edited by burping frog, Jan 18, 2005 @ 4:56 AM.


#26

Chenoeh

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 5:22 AM

I'm not sure Baltar falling for Starbuck is quite so in character, given that he's a bit too narcissistic to fall in love, but I could buy that he was incredibly charmed by a girl who was even more confident than he.

I wasn't sure it was love or even being charmed. It didn't feel coincidental that Starbuck was as unlike Six as any he was likely to find. What was great was that he was as much her tool to satisfying an itch as she was for him. He just didn't know it until she blurted out Apollo's name. His petulant response to her faux pas seemed more like bruised ego than crushed dreams to me.


I agree that it isn't love, but I do think that Baltar does genuinely like Starbuck (visiting her in hospital), and that his reaction was hurt rather then ego or dreams. I did like the way Six's face and posture were so stiff and formal afterwards- and that she didn't seem to be wearing any/as much makeup as normal. And I liked the way Starbuck was brazening it out at the card game.

I really liked the GalacticaBoomer/Baltar scene. I read it as him needing to remove the threat of a Cylon agent from Galactica but feeling really shitty about manipulating a desperate and miserable woman into shooting herself, even if it didn't take. And GalacticaBoomer shutting out Tyrol later!

So generally, WooHoo, fantastic episode!

#27

scaperchick

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 5:33 AM

I wasn't sure it was love or even being charmed. It didn't feel coincidental that Starbuck was as unlike Six as any he was likely to find. What was great was that he was as much her tool to satisfying an itch as she was for him. He just didn't know it until she blurted out Apollo's name. His petulant response to her faux pas seemed more like bruised ego than crushed dreams to me.


Big fat word. Is Baltar challenged and a bit intrigued by Starbuck? Yes. Does he love her? No. The only person Baltar loves is Baltar, and his ego is so great that the thought of a woman being with him and thinking of someone else would be completely alien. Hee!

Apollo and Starbuck. Yeeeuuch. Why?? I can only hope that by flying off to Caprica any *vom*romantic*vom* developments between them is put off for a good while. I accept now that the producers are determined to have it some day - I just hope it's later rather than sooner.


I have no problems with the Apollo/Starbuck ship per se, but there are serious issues they need to work through first before they get to that point. The biggest one being the character of Lee himself!

The dude needs to do something that's not connected to his father or to Starbuck. So far this series she's been shown to be the best pilot, the best sniper, the most trusted interrogator and tactican. Even deep down Lee seems to think she should be CAG, and if it weren't for Lee being his son, one has a sneaking suspicion Adama would as well (well, until she went AWOL anyway...).

Apollo needs to carve out his own space, his own role and stop comparing himself to those around him. He needs to grow up, and so far he hasn't. Last week he got in a bar fight. This week he got pissy and laid Starbuck (a junior officer) out. What the hell's he going to do next week?

Until he gets sorted out, a relationship would never work. They'd end up killing each other.

#28

burping frog

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 6:42 AM

Coupla other thoughts about Ep. 12

I was suprised by the seriously religious overtones in this ep, but hey! if it makes the plot developments more varied (and it did) then who cares? At least its all what we would call "Pagan 'n shit". I was suprised by how quickly Laura went from steady and practical to thinking she's the - what was it? - Prophet? Chosen One? That was a bit of a sudden about turn for me. I mean, the woman suddenly lost the plot really, and I cheered Adama when he unsuprisingly refused to risk a captured enemy vessel for a wild goose chase.

Starbuck is fairly suggestible isn't she? One five minute conversation and she's disobeying orders all over the place. That's not particularly someone I'd like to have on my team, but whatever. For a start, her absence means that Galactica can’t destroy the Cylons surrounding Kobol, and so can’t get supplies or indeed rescue the ship lost on the planet. Just ‘cos Adama lied about Earth. Made her look a bit of a petulant self-righteous bitch. I mean, maybe she has a brilliant plan to do both missions in the end, but by the time she comes back Galactica could be toast, for all she knows.

I wasn't even sure what Baltar was telling Boomer. I was confused. But then we heard the gunshot and OH! Gave me chills. That’s dark stuff. (Poor old Both!Boomers.)

What I want to know is: if Boomer (in both delicious flavours) and Baltar are technically the bad guys, how come I also find them the most sympathetic characters? Does that make me a bad person? ;)

Then I'm going to Hell, because I adore them both. And I also think it's easily one of the best written aspects in a really well written show. Props to the actors too of course.

Dying for next week.

Edited by burping frog, Jan 18, 2005 @ 7:21 AM.


#29

NikkiJ

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 8:20 AM

Ep 12 spoilers

Actually, whilst it is Baltar that she is thrashing about with, I think, after careful study, the person we see, until the denoument, is the one she is imagining. Jamie Bamber has lovely shoulders. And other naked bits.

Thank you InigoMontoya, I so glad to know I've not gone insane! I was hoping I was wrong because I'm another one who doesn't want them to get together but TV does love the old UST. I will have to watch that part again, just to make sure;-)

And did anyone else think that before the embarrassing outburst, the sex was kinda hot? All sweaty and rooowwwrrrrr. I honestly don't know if it's the moral ambiguity, the Magnificent Bastard-esque hairdo, or the fact that he has more sex-type scenes than anyone else, but I am finding Baltar ridiculously hot these days.

burping frog I'm right there with you, even if he does bring the mad. The scene with The President and Six had me cracking up, he really doesn’t want to upset Six after what happened the last time.

I was suprised by how quickly Laura went from steady and practical to thinking she's the - what was it? - Prophet? Chosen One? That was a bit of a sudden about turn for me.

I think she was surprised by it herself, I think it comes from her seeing the city on Kobal. After that and the flashes of the arrow of Apollo and the priestess telling her all the other stuff I think she believed it even if the rational part of her mind didn't want to.

#30

laurabeth

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Posted Jan 18, 2005 @ 9:25 AM

Actually, whilst it is Baltar that she is thrashing about with, I think, after careful study, the person we see, until the denoument, is the one she is imagining. Jamie Bamber has lovely shoulders. And other naked bits.


I feel for you, having to watch that scene over and over and over until you were sure. Must have been painful.

And oh my lord, Baltar does have Magnificent Bastard hair! MAybe they're related...

On Laura's sudden transformation into the Prophet, I think that freaky medication she's taking is affecting her a lot more than she's realised. It seems to not only be producing vision, but affecting her judgement too. Billy seems to be worried about it in particular.

Can anyone help? In the scene with Baltar, Six and Laura, what did the two women say at the exact same moment to Baltar when he said "We need a break"? Was it just "what?!", or was there something more? Trivial, but it's bugging me.