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Logan Echolls: Soft Underbelly...Or Rock Hard?


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#1

Zumanity

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Posted Sep 25, 2004 @ 2:08 PM

He's pure evil, but kind of hot too. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to say so...

#2

r01339113

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Posted Sep 26, 2004 @ 5:45 PM

I know "OPJ" is how Veronica describes him, but as I have a poor memory, he's just "Son of Jim Carrey" to me (and for reasons other than his parent's $20mil paychecks). He has already cemented himself in my mind as the worst character on the show. For dramatic purposes, he's necessary, but I can't stand the sight of him now. Quite the successful OPJ characterization!

#3

kieyra

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Posted Sep 27, 2004 @ 7:36 PM

He makes me think of James Spader's character in Pretty in Pink, only he's not nearly as suave.

#4

TVjunky

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Posted Sep 28, 2004 @ 10:12 AM

Am I the only one who thinks that Logan may very well be the one that raped Veronica? He seems exactly like the kind of morally deviant coward that would do such a thing, IMO. Plus, he seems to enjoy taunting her a bit too much.

#5

violet4120

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Posted Sep 28, 2004 @ 11:33 AM

You're not the only one, TVjunky. My roommate and I both think the same thing, and we thought it as soon as he showed up again in the episode after we had learned she was raped. I think he would do something like that, and we already know he was at that party. There's really no way that he can be redeemed on the show, so they really should just go all out and make him the rapist.

Oh, how things change.

Edited by violet4120, Nov 7, 2005 @ 1:52 AM.


#6

ladymadonna

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Posted Sep 28, 2004 @ 6:08 PM

I have a feeling, just a feeling mind you, that we are supposed to think Logan is a jackass, only to have him redeem himself at some point near the end of the season. Like he and VM will become uneasy allies of a sort. Maybe Logan will discover that Duncan really raped VM, and that will push him over to the light side of the Force. (Yes, I HAVE been watching Star Wars, why do you ask?) ;) Maybe I'm just thinking too hard.

#7

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 12:21 AM

I don't think Logan raped Veronica because I don't think Logan is morally deviant. Sure, he's an unapologetic asshole. But it seems as if he's an asshole when he really feels like the other person has wronged him. I mean, you don't see him randomly being an asshole to people outside his circle. Just the ones (Veronica, Weevil' abuela) he thinks deserve his scorn. Of course, he takes it too far. But hey, that's what makes him a total ass.

I wrote a whole Logan defense in the Episode 2 thread which I won't repeat here. Damn, I should have put it here. But I don't think he's skeevy. Just jerky.

#8

summerfever

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 12:28 AM

I don't think Logan raped Veronica because I don't think Logan is morally deviant. Sure, he's an unapologetic asshole. But it seems as if he's an asshole when he really feels like the other person has wronged him.


Plus, if he was the one, wouldn't he try to rub it in her face at every opportunity? Instead, all I've seen (and I've only goten as far as the pilot ep.) is some vague remarks about her being a slut and the random "your mother" insults.

Edited by summerfever, Sep 29, 2004 @ 12:31 AM.


#9

Dachelle

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 12:47 AM

Snipping other, already quoted stuff:

But it seems as if he's an asshole when he really feels like the other person has wronged him.


Of course, this could also be an argument for Logan being the rapist, since we saw in the pilot that he did feel that Veronica had wronged him by siding with her father against the Kane family.

However, I tend to fall in with the "not the rapist" view of Logan, just because it feels obvious, and so far I trust this show enough to believe it won't go with the obvious solution to the mystery.

#10

Chief P

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 12:56 AM

I kinda like Logan. I didn't in the pilot, but then his girlfriend cheated on him. Anyway, I hope they give him some depth because, yeah, I kinda like him. He's on probationary status though.

#11

Anabelle Crump

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 9:41 AM

I think Logan is probably one of those beta pack types who is fiercely loyal to his friends. When Veronica was making Duncan and Lilly (Logan's girlfriend) happy, he had no problems with her. When he perceived that she had wronged his friend, he pulled out all the stops to make her life miserable. So he has no sense of appropriate scale of retaliation, but his motivations do make some sense. In his mind, Veronica betrayed the pack and therefore is deserving of complete ostracism and disdain.

Hmmm. High school as wolf pack. Surely someone somewhere has written a pop psychology book using that metaphor.

I think it's unlikely Logan is the rapist. I can't make any judgement on his level of moral deviancy, but his behavior convinces me he's an unlikely candidate. If he had raped her, he'd probably make sure she knew it, convinced that his 1. rich kid status and 2. his superior intellect (at least in his own estimation) would keep him from getting nailed for it. He doesn't strike me as being subtle enough to use Veronica's uncertainty about who raped her as the exquisite torture device it is. For lack of subtlety, see exhibit A: destruction of VM's car as payback.

#12

AudyGal0516

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 9:52 AM

I love him. I can't help it. He's a total ass, but I totally want him. Should I seek help?

#13

Fabrisse

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 12:21 PM

Probably. But I can sympathize. *g*

#14

ayla123

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 6:28 PM

Oh man. I need help too then.

#15

Chief P

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 10:15 PM

I think a lot of people need help.

What is it about the assholes that atracts us?

#16

Zumanity

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 10:26 PM

I'm gonna guess the hair.

#17

JillyCoppercorn

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Posted Sep 29, 2004 @ 10:37 PM

Logan is my second favorite character after Veronica. I'm convinced he's got a lot more depth to him than we're supposed to think or Veronica believes.

Also, the actor is hot. He's got a very Edward Norton-esque vibe.

#18

ayla123

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Posted Oct 1, 2004 @ 3:41 PM

Wow, hmm. I love Edward Norton. Maybe that's it.

(Or maybe its just that the actor is hot. Sigh.)

#19

healing fish

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Posted Oct 1, 2004 @ 3:57 PM

My God. Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't realize how much he reminded me of Edward Norton until now.

I can't wait until Logan starts developing layers. Because you know it's going to happen.

#20

minnie mouse

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Posted Oct 1, 2004 @ 5:13 PM

I completely DO NOT think Logan was VM's rapist. I posted more of my thoughts in Logan's thread, but the gist of it is that I just don't think he has shown the requisite moral depravity. Yes, he's mean - even cruel - and extremely angry. But immoral? Not that we have been shown.

Even without the anger, he would be a Class A asshole. Remember his sneering on the day Duncan snubbed Veronica while they were still dating? Asshole? Certainly. Evil? I don't see it yet.

Now add that his girlfriend is brutally murdered. Who is also the sister of his best friend. Even an asshole has to feel that. (And we know he's a feeling asshole because he was so hurt when Paris Hilton cheated on him.) Then to add insult to injury, his best friend's ex's dad, who is the sheriff - who everyone probably assumed would support and exonerate the Kanes - starts turning on "one of them". Not only is Jake(?) Kane the most popular man in town, but he is Logan's best friend's dad. In the "09" world, whole families are indicted for the sins of one person. (Remember Weevil and his grandmother being outcast for each other's sins?)

I say all that to say that I think in the insular world of the 09's it seems it would be quite commonplace to hate someone because of another family member. Even moreso because of what that family member did to you or your family and/or friends. I think that plus Logan's innate asshole-iness explains his actions. Not the immorality of a rapist.


Logan's "innate asshole-iness" is the reason I think he is the lead rapist. He wasn't above smashing VM's car and physically threatening her. Who knows how far he would have gone if Weevil hadn't come along.

He strikes me as a totally self involved person. I didn't interpet the cheating as what caused him pain. I thought at first he was offended that someone would try to play him. Once he found out it was Chardo, that just added insult to injury.

While I do agree that group hate would be incited by something perceived as betrayal by someone or their relatives, I don't think Logan is that loyal. He just seems like the kind of person that would use the group hate to inflict his own brand of cruelty. He is the only person at school continually harassing VM, even though it obviously bothers his best friend.

I just hate this kid.

#21

DeereGirl

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Posted Oct 1, 2004 @ 8:21 PM

I don't think he was the rapist, and I'm not even sold on the "innate assholiness."

Back in the day (yesterday) when the semi-decent, non-generic official UPN site was up and running, it had a dossier on LE that rang true to me. I'm not going to try to quote it, but it was something like "... son of a movie star, his entire childhood was occupied by nannies and papparazzi. There is no way to get from there to normal." That's my impression of him - he is king of his own little world, and has never had any reason to think about anyone else as an actual human with actual feelings. But my gut says that he and VM are going to have to form an uneasy alliance at some point, and the jerkier he is beforehand, the more fun it's going to be to watch.

#22

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Posted Oct 2, 2004 @ 11:41 AM

Logan is my second favorite character after Veronica. I'm convinced he's got a lot more depth to him than we're supposed to think or Veronica believes.


Word, he's some wierd amalgamation of John Hughes movie characters. James Spader in Pretty in Pink, Craig Schaeffer in Some Kind of Wonderful and Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

Despite his overwhelming assitude, he seems to have some lingering preoccupation with Veronica, or at least with who Veronica used to be. His girlfriend did die a pretty horrible death, assuming he wasn't involved himself, I wonder if Veronica discovering there was a cover up to protect the Kane family will make him feel betrayed by the Kanes/his clique?

This would be even more interesting if he is the one who roofied Veronica.

#23

Cynthia187

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Posted Oct 3, 2004 @ 12:20 AM

This would be even more interesting if he is the one who roofied Veronica.


He probably did and maybe that's what Eli has on him.

I think Logan has the hots for Veronica. He's too obsessed with her to be otherwise.

Edited by Cynthia187, Oct 3, 2004 @ 12:20 AM.


#24

rue bee

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Posted Oct 3, 2004 @ 12:41 PM

Logan's my fourth fave character after Veronica, Weevil, and Who's Your Daddy?. Considering I've only warmed to 5 characters thus far (the other being UPN Pete), that's not bad. He's the only one of he preps with any charisma or personality. I don't think he should be redeemed or get too many layers (not for a while anyway), cause it makes me happy to see him suffer. And there should always be a character you love to hate.

I like the theories on why he's so mean to Veronica. He obviously has the hots for her, but more importantly I think he intuits that there's something amiss with Lilly's death but to mangle A FEW GOOD MEN, he can't handle the truth.

#25

Ostrich

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Posted Oct 3, 2004 @ 1:52 PM

I like Logan Echolls as Veronica's antagonist. I think it gives him a lot to do and a lot to explore. He's the ultimate insider--but he's gained that position through family connections and money.

He can't understand how Veronica could betray Duncan/the Kanes and side with her father, which suggests that he doesn't understand how important love for family is (maybe he doesn't get along with his father?). He's all about power and the class structure of the high school. Those are the things that are important to him.

When Veronica and Lilly were talking in the car, Lilly mentioned having to kiss a few toads. Did she think Logan was a toad?

#26

ostentatious

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Posted Oct 5, 2004 @ 6:47 AM

Totally hot. God, I hope he's not the one who raped Veronica, even though I have the awful feeling that he is. I don't want any impediments to my Logan/Veronica shippiness. Dammit, Steff and Andie *can* make it work!

if he was the one, wouldn't he try to rub it in her face at every opportunity

That's a fine line. He does seem to try to work a "Hey Veronica, you're a tramp" angle with her, and if he actually did rape her, that might be as far as he can go. He's a bit cowardly at heart, and she's pretty fierce. Actually coming out and letting her know he's the one..I mean, she didn't report the rape so he can't even mock her about being raped (which I wouldn't put past him) unless he's the one who raped her. As far as he knows, she doesn't even know it happened. Yes, that doesn't make sense to girls, because lord knows you'd know something had happened even if you just hadn't had sex in a while, much less if you were actually a virgin, but to a guy Logan's age he might take the fact that she didn't report the crime as an indicator that she didn't realize it happened. Obviously Duncan and Veronica never had sex, and I don't get the idea that Veronica has been involved with anyone since Duncan, so it's not like there's any other info to work with on the slut angle, so Logan's vague tramp accusations are my personal indicator that he may be the rapist.

But still...hot. Hot hot hot. And has some intelligence as an actor. My personal take on his pissiness is that he probably has no family connections. Weevil's gramma was probably the only other person in his house. If he has a mom she's probably absent, and his dad is likely always away on location. That's another Steff indicator, the big empty mansion. So in the absence of family, friends and girlfriends would take on magnified importance. In fact, Duncan's family may have been a substitute family for him, since he was involved with it both as Duncan's best friend and Lilly's boyfriend. That may be the source of his resentment toward Veronica. In his emotionally unbalanced state, it may be like her dad destroyed *his* family.

Edited by ostentatious, Oct 5, 2004 @ 7:07 AM.


#27

huggybuff

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Posted Oct 6, 2004 @ 7:13 PM

Casting info for Logan's 'rents!!! Very campy casting...

Zap2it

#28

healing fish

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Posted Oct 6, 2004 @ 7:20 PM

This should be fun. I love this show so much.

#29

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Posted Oct 7, 2004 @ 12:02 PM

I don't think his vague tramp insults indicate one way or another if he's the rapist. Someone once said (possibly on a TV show) that "tramp" and "whore" are the easiest ways to insult a girl. Especially in high school.

It really comes down to if you think he's more cowardly than delusional. If he's a coward, that's why he hasn't been torturing Veronica with the rape. If he's delusional, then he would be (thinking he's safe in his own little world of money) if he had done it.

Or he could be neither and simply not have done it. I like that theory.

Also: Have an odd wish for Logan/Troy slash.

#30

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Posted Oct 7, 2004 @ 5:48 PM

Last week he allowed the biker gang to take their member away, as long as they promised to punish him. If he was a complete dickhead they would have played that scene a lot louder then just a quiet talk.

I think he's going to become less of an asshole as the season goes.