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#1

Ceares

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Posted Jul 13, 2004 @ 7:25 PM

I know that some people are getting into SV either on DVD, or on the WB 'beginnings', plus with summer slowing down the discussion, I thought a topic that allowed discussion of the past seasons in general might be fun.

I'm throwing out three topics to jumpstart things, but anybody that wants to please jump in with something else.

1. What do you think the biggest changes-good or bad have been in each character? What different way do you think they might have gone based on 1st season characterization?

2. Barring greed, attempted murder or krypto-related issues, which characters do you think would have made a viable love interest for Clark, Lex, Lana or Chloe?

3. Which of the recurring characters no longer around do you miss and wish was still on the show? What possible story line would you have liked to see them have?


" The past isn't dead. In fact, it isn't even past."

Sorry- ETA: No next season spoilers please(not that anyone has done this, just wanted to make sure it was noted)

Edited by Ceares, Jul 14, 2004 @ 12:56 PM.

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#2

CanSpy

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Posted Jul 13, 2004 @ 8:11 PM

2. Barring greed, attempted murder or krypto-related issues, which characters do you think would have made a viable love interest for Clark, Lex, Lana or Chloe?


Hmm...I love this topic, but this is a toughy.

Clark: Besides Lex? I really liked Alicia. Barring her powers, she was the most believable of the non-woobie villains. All she wanted was a little love and who among us can claim that they were never a little clingy or desperate during high school. The blind optimist in me keeps chanting "She could've gotten over it! She wasn't Lana, for God's sake!"

Lex: I actually liked Helen. She was a strong woman, and not all that impressed with Lex, which made him work a lot harder and kept his interest a lot longer than anyone else (barring Clark, of course). Her genuine humanity made it that much harder to fathom why she could try destroy Lex the way she did. Unless I'm really missing something, I think AlMiles really dropped the ball on that character, just for the sake of a stupid cliffhanger.

Lana: As much as I liked Adam Knight, let him keep the Pink Menace occupied for awhile. He called her on her shit, made her work for her goals, and was generally a great foil for how stuck in her ways Lana is.

Chloe: I miss Adam Brody. If they had just given him some counselling while he was recovering, things could've been so different.

3. Which of the recurring characters no longer around do you miss and wish was still on the show? What possible story line would you have liked to see them have?


The only one that comes to mind is Principal Asskick. Unless they did something to him in early season 3 that I'm missing...

I wanted some Excelsior! flashbacks, beyond what we've seen so far.

Edited by CanSpy, Jul 13, 2004 @ 8:11 PM.

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#3

Cyb

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Posted Jul 13, 2004 @ 8:54 PM

1. What do you think the biggest changes-good or bad have been in each character? What different way do you think they might have gone based on 1st season characterization?

I wish they'd stuck with the original Lana and just had her progress from there, rather than trying to add skill after skill and make her be everything to everyone.

2. Barring greed, attempted murder or krypto-related issues, which characters do you think would have made a viable love interest for Clark, Lex, Lana or Chloe?

Lex: Desiree. I loved her! I think she could have made an excellent schemer for a political husband. If she hadn't tried to kill him.

Clark: I haven't liked him with anyone, honestly, aside from Lex in the first two seasons I mean. This may be a function of me just not feeling the clark character, so I tend not to feel his romances either.

Chloe: Her editor Max Taylor, before he got a pencil in the ear. No onscreen romance there but I got the feeling there was a little something going on.

Lana: Adam could have been good for her.

3. Which of the recurring characters no longer around do you miss and wish was still on the show? What possible story line would you have liked to see them have?

Well he's not a recurring character but I really want to see Chad the Goth! He was mentioned in season 1 and I'm more interested in him than I ever was in Lana.
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#4

hachurui

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Posted Jul 13, 2004 @ 9:12 PM

I want more Enrique! He only got a few seconds in Cool.
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#5

DarkEmerald

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Posted Jul 13, 2004 @ 9:30 PM

I liked Lex with Carrie Castle, myself. I liked her low, tough-chick voice and her moxie and her cheesy red Mustang, and I thought Lex had some real chem with her--more than he had with Helen.

Lex got Carrie an unbelievable promotion to a position of power in Metropolis journalism. It was presumably her articles about Lex that nudged Roger Nixon into the folly that resulted in his death and Lex's first (???) murder. Now THAT is a pivotal character. How come they couldn't bring her back?

I'm with CanSpy on Chloe's love interest. The Adam Brody character was sweet and wonderful--apart from the murderous rage detail--and the "floating things" kiss was a high point of the series, IMO.

Good new thread, by the way. Thanks for starting it, Ceares.
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#6

kwerkee

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Posted Jul 13, 2004 @ 10:36 PM

Despite the overwhelming FOTWs, S1 was the most fun to watch. Plus, I don't remember having any urges to bitchslap any of the characters.

I'm convinced Lex had a lot more action in S1, too. We've seen him with all those hos and Lex flirting was a joy to watch. Nowadays, we never even get to see him with casual dates like in Jitters. And I'm with MR when he said Lex should be gambling, fooling around like the flamboyant billionaire playboy that he was. But I can't see that happening now. Current!Lex is too gloomy to be having fun. But it's very, very easy to imagine it in S1.

And of course, the Clex relationship was beautiful. Others have described it better than I ever can.

I thought the beginning of S2 had a lot of (I apologise for using this word) potential.
- Heat proved that SV can do a funny episode without being groan-inducing.

- Pete finding out the secret should have brought out the pros and cons about being friends with someone different. A good metaphor for RL situations eg. being friends with a GBLT or a handicapped, etc. It would have brought out intelligent discussions about discriminations and what being normal means. Pete was such a good example of "normal" and I would have liked to see Clark saying he wished he was normal like Pete, which will balance Pete feeling like he's in Clark's shadow. The grass being greener on the other side discussion might have brought out further character developments for Clark and Pete.

- Clark exploring his dark side and learning about his buried feelings about his parents. I personally thought him saying that the Kents weren't really his parents, was a step up in showcasing how really lonely he was.

And then came Nocturne. That was the start of crappy eppys and budding of Lanaville. Of course, there were good episodes immediately after this one (Lineage, Ryan), but I consider this to be the appetiser for the suckiness of S2.

In terms of quality, S3 is the best, no doubt. Better continuity, more character-driven plots, dramatic improvement in the acting dept. Sure, some episodes suck even when compared with S2 eppys *cough*Magnetic*cough*, but the rest of the season deal with the arcs a lot better than before. Hmmm.. does darker mean better?
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#7

DarkEmerald

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 12:36 AM

Hmmm.. does darker mean better?

It does in my book, Kwerkee. Not that I'm some deeply dark, Goth-y sort of soul--just that the adage about happy people having no histories is kind of true. There's nothing less interesting than happy stories about happy people with happy endings.

I like to feel stuff about my favorite characters. The darkness is where all the feeling lies. Happy and funny have their place, but dark and dramatic deliver the emotional goods.

S1 had some lovely shadows as the writers played with Lex's moral and sexual ambiguity. Raise your hand if you didn't think "Hourglass" and "Hug" had some of the most thrilling Lexy darkness--particularly since it was contrasted with some genuinely likable Clarky goodness.

S3 really took a walk on the darkside, as you point out. It took us on an emotional roller-coaster for at least half of its episodes. Far and away (I think) the darkest episode of SV was Shattered, and I don't think many would disagree that was the best one so far in all three seasons. And what could be darker than that cliffhanger montage in Covenant?

S2, on the other hand, wasn't dark enough. It was, at best, just soapy and melodramatic. That's not entertaining. It's boring.
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#8

Frelling Tralk

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 5:35 AM

I liked Lex with Carrie Castle, myself.


Seconded. I enjoyed watching those two flirt and play games with one another. She was a far more intelligent opponent than Victoria. For season 3 they might as well have made Lex a monk. The only person he had any flirty interaction with was Molly.

And the recurring character I'd like to see return is Dominic. More scenes with Lional's minion! We haven't seen him since Suspect.
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#9

Cyb

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 5:58 AM

I liked Carrie Castle until the end of the episode... I thought she gave in to him too early. (Not in the sexual sense though because I would not blame anyone for giving in to Lex for that, within moments of meeting him.) But I was liking their banter and game-playing, then when she took that editor offer, I lost interest. I guess you don't have time to play "hard to get" and banter more when you're only on for one episode!

S2, on the other hand, wasn't dark enough. It was, at best, just soapy and melodramatic. That's not entertaining. It's boring.

Interestingly, I found season 1 to have the best balance, although it had other faults which is to be expected from a new series.

Season 2 got heavily bogged down in the teen soap of Clana and Despined Chloe. I found most of the season just plain depressing because it was so repetetive.

Season 3 was definitely darker to me. I like darker but I think darkness needs moments of humor or hope just to keep you going. Perry was good for that. The return to the endless Clana Mating Dance...was not.

If I could take 1/3 of the episodes from each season, I think it'd be a perfect season. In fact, I'll do that now! in no particular order:

1. Pilot 2. Hourglass 3. Jitters 4. Shimmer 5. Hug 6. Leech 7. Rogue 8. Heat 9. Red 10. Rosetta 11. Prodigal 12. Lineage 13. Insurgence 14. Suspect 15. Phoenix 16. Perry 17. Shattered 18. Asylum 19. Delete 20. Legacy 21. Memoria 22. Covenant

As I was looking back over season 3 recaps for titles, I was surprised at how many episodes I really didn't care for.

Edited by Cyb, Jul 14, 2004 @ 6:14 AM.

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#10

xinfinity

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 7:14 AM

What do you think the biggest changes-good or bad have been in each character? What different way do you think they might have gone based on 1st season characterization?


I was just wishing their was a thread on this very topic. It's interesting how many changes the characters have been through.

Clark I think they started out with Clark being closer to comics canon. There were signs of his being super inteligent as well as superstrong and a kind of innocent wanting-to-save-the-world idealism. Where they went wrong at the begining with Clark is giving him the worst unjustified inferiority complex since Data on Star Trek:TNG along with being madly "in love" with Lana, only because she's pretty and popular. Of course the average, immature, shallow, teenage jerk doesn't want anything except to be "normal" , and thinks being in with the "in crowd" is everything, and judges people on there looks But Clark is supposed to be intelectually and morally superior to the average human. They've really never portrayed that

Lex Again early episodes seemed to stick closer to canon. Lex was a sort of spoiled-rich-kid + streetwise-tough-guy who was already heading down the wrong path in life. And there were a hints of the canon megalomania, like he had bought into Lionel's whole being heir to a psuedo-aristocratic family of great leaders thing. He seems to getting further away from the Darkside as the series goes on.

Lana The original concept of Lana seemed to be a high achieving big-fish-in-a-small-pond type. Who was also mature for her age outgrowing her shallow jock-crowd friends. And wanted more excitment and opportunity then her small town life had available. (she dreamed of a "real life" in Metropolis) They should have stuck with this and developed it.
But, they had to make her be the damsel in distress over and over and over and fail to avoid obvious danger in every episode which made her look stupid, then they gave her all sorts of unrealistic abilities and personality traits, and activities, trying to not make her look stupid and apparently wanting her to have something in common with everyone in the world to make audiences indentify with her. none of that worked. And they totally overplayed the
dead parents thing, it's just not realistic for a teenage girl with a full and relatively sheltered life to be obsessed with mourning a biolgical family she never knew, they DIED when she was only three years old.

Chloe I get the impression Chloe was originally meant to be a minor character, only there to give exposition on FoTWs. The FoTW thing got old fast and so did the love triangle thing. They had to find her something else for her to do. It's a credit to AMs acting skills how much this characters role has been expanded, by S3 she's pivotal to the major storylines.

Pete Poor superfluous Pete, this could have been an interesting character, someone with the confidence and level headedness to keep a thing like his best friend being an alien a lifelong secret. This show had to have all the canon characters and then some. Petes canon role got doled out to other characters, When Clark needed help investigating FoTWs he when to Chloe, brotherly advice-Lex, normal teen activities- Lana and Whitney, dealing with his secret life - his parents. Nothing left for Pete to do.

Lionel Another expanded role, he was clearly a corrupt robber-baron capitalist and a hypercritical disfunctional parent from the pilot episode. By S3 he was the root of all evil. As Lex was made more simpathetic, the blame as well as the comics canon backstory got shifted to Lionel.
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#11

Airisu

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 9:27 AM

2. Barring greed, attempted murder or krypto-related issues, which characters do you think would have made a viable love interest for Clark, Lex, Lana or Chloe?


Clark: Besides the obligatory Clex answer, I have to say that Nightcrawler!Redux aka Alicia was probably the best. Well, at least before she went all Obssesive Pyscho in a sadly predictable FOTW turn. She wasn't an exotic beauty like Kyla, but I liked the fact that she was supposed to be a bit of a loner, and that she bonded with Clark over a mutual rescue situation. Her teleporting powers would have been an invaluable asset towards helping Clark out in potential sticky situations, and her aggressiveness towards the relationship, as well as the lack of any Sekrits & Lies issue, was also extremely refreshing from the repetitive passive-aggressiveness/he's keeping something from me! crap that is constantly rehashed with Lex, Lana and Chloe. Plus I like the idea of Clark actually having a friendly relationship with the meteor mutants.

Lex: To be honest, I don't really like Lex pining after anyone other than Clark. *dodges the rotten eggs being lobed* Hmmm... Desiree was the sexiest, and there was loads of chemistry between the actress and MR. Still, Helen came off on the whole as the most compatible - she was intelligent, gorgeous, and shared a mutual interest in the Kents with Lex. On paper, that sounds like Lex's perfect mate. Unfortunately, the Helex was ruined by lack of proper development and rushed, poor writing like the gag-inducing Wall-Around-My-Pants speech.

Lana: Besides a mirror? Er, I actually think Byron the poet in Nocturne might have a good match - they both enjoy hanging out in graveyards, being "arty-farty" and pseudo-angsty... And the most important thing of all? They both worship the ground that Lana floats on.

Chloe: In S1, the Pete's latent Chloe!Crush intrigued me, but both the character and the budding hint of romance became so under-developed that his confession in Truth felt as if it came out of nowhere. I was rooting for Chlark in S1, but Passive!Agressive Chloe and Clana!Worshipper Clark in S2 spoiled everything. Still, there were some very sweet moments in S3 eppys Delete andTruth ... although I'm kinda skeevy over the horribly cliched "One That Got Away" storyline.

Interestingly, I found season 1 to have the best balance, although it had other faults which is to be expected from a new series.
...Season 3 was definitely darker to me. I like darker but I think darkness needs moments of humor or hope just to keep you going.


Word to this. I have tapes of all 3 seasons, and I find myself reaching for S1 most often. There were hints of darkness and ambiguity in certain episodes like Hourglass while still offering plenty of silly, light-hearted fun which made the season extremely re-watchable. The Clex HoYay! was delightful, the Chlark still sweet, a v. human adversary was present in Whitney, the Chlana wasn't quite as irritating, the MB had great hair ... *sigh* good times. S2 and S3 are actually kinda similiar to me in the sense that there were a couple of spectacular non-FOTW episodes such as Lineage and Rosetta, as well as Shattered and Asylum, but also increasing levels of boring, repetitive Lana-obssessed FOTWs. Every single character has started grating more and more on my nerves, even TWOP-loved characters like Lex and Chloe. The whole thing's starting to feel like an accelerated version of Buffy.
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#12

AStarling

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 10:52 AM

I like this topic.

1. What do you think the biggest changes-good or bad have been in each character? What different way do you think they might have gone based on 1st season characterization?


Clark Well, I definitely think that his changes from Season 1 have been for the worst. His innocent crush on Lana has turned into this unhealthy obsession that's painful to watch. He's no longer a sympathetic guy, but this Lana-obsessed jerk who treats his friends like crap. I did not expect to hate him this much in Season 1, I was rooting for him back then.

Chloe I love her S3 characterisation. I think my general feeling from Season 1 was that she's a typical girl-in-love-with-best-friend but now I feel that she has some sort of relevence and importance within the Smallville world. Not to mention more screentime. Yay. (I'm choosing to ignore S2).

Lex I was expecting his descent into evil to be more obvious by now, but I'm glad it's not. I love his S1->S3 characterisation, he's one of the most (if not the most) sympathetic character in this show.
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#13

PhantomChic

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 5:34 PM

Moved from the Spoiler topic:

Hey everyone! I was having a debate on another forum and this person I talked to said that people who don't like the Clana agree that there is chemistry between KK and TW. I wanna know if anyone anti-Clana out there agree or disagree that there is chemistry and why.

I vehemently disagree with that. I disliked Clana originally because they had no chemistry, especially in comparison to Clark's interactions with both Chloe and Lex. Then later I grew to loathe it because it was so damn repetitive and unnecessary.

Here's what the person told me:

"Like I said, a lot of people who don't support Clana still say that Tom and Kristin have chemistry, but they can't get behind Clana because of the poor writing.

The poor writing certainly doesn't help their scenes, but the biggest detriment to them is the lack of chemistry between KK and TW and the emotional flatness of those scenes. They don't seem that comfortable playing off each other, possibly because since they're both model-actors with little training they work best when opposite someone with more highly developed skills who gives them more to work with and can help them to improve their performances. Together it's like watching two pieces of carved wood.

Take Relic for example. Almost everyone ate that up with a spoon, say Tom and Kristin were great in it. The chemistry really showed there. "

"Ate up Relic with a spoon?" Ha! God that episode sucked ass. Even the Chlex scene couldn't redeem it. Kristen was just a bobblehead doll in a different outfit and watching someone who looks 12 attempt a sex scene is very squicky.
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#14

mobiusklein

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 5:47 PM

I NEVER shipped Clana but could put it out of my mind for a good chunk of S1 and part of S2 because I know not everything about a show is going to be really good but I never liked it that much. It's when it killed people, broke spines, made Ma & Pa Kent to be asses to their own child and Ryan's situation got dissed that I wanted to set that ship on fire.

They have no chemistry. None. They're OK as friends but anything more than that makes me want to drill a hole in my head. I think TW tries a little harder than KK to bring chemistry to the pairing but it's a lost cause. The writing only makes things worse and the fact that both seem bored with the relentless hamster wheel puts the nail in the coffin. KK had some tepid chemistry with IS, however and TW seems to shine nicely with AM and the girl who played Alicia, Kyla and of course, MR.

Relic, puke. What's so wonderful about a bitchy adulteress talking trash about her nice husband and a guy who knows she's married boinking her anyway? I don't see what's so wrong with Dexter. KK may have acted a bit better but she will never be good. It reminded me of poor dead Whitney sacrificed and belittled behind his back and it soured me right off.
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#15

kwerkee

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 7:31 PM

I thought KK and TW being awkward in the first few episodes was on purpose. It was actually kinda cute at that time. Little did I realise it would last 3 years. Not so cute anymore. I mean, 2 years after them bonding over her squished parents graves, they should have gotten comfy. Instead, they shared the most stiff cuddle under a tree. I wish I can find that screencap where you can see how uncomfortable KK was, even when being hugged by one of the most gorgeous human beings on earth. TW tried to put in the effort, I'll give him that much credit. But it's not easy when your co-worker refuses to work with you, I guess. Their awkwardness made me awkward - it made me conscious that they were trying to act, if that makes any sense.

I disliked Clana originally because they had no chemistry

Actually, the first time round that I watched S1, the Clana didn't bother me at all. It was kinda funny. Even in Shimmer, when I thought Lana was being improper. Don't know what blinded me then. Now, when I rewatched S1, I'm surprised that I didn't dislike her and Clana earlier.

people who don't like the Clana agree that there is chemistry between KK and TW.

Chemistry is when the actors can play off each other. KK and TW don't play off each other. They don't take initiatives, when it's not written in the script, they don't do things to improve the scene. For example, JG would try to touch MR's face and then MR would shrug it off - emphasized Lex's hostility with his dad. JG and MR would circle around AM in their respective scenes with her, as to imply to the audience, the predator circling the prey.

With KK and TW, two pieces of granite. One has a bobblehead attached. In contrast, see how TW acted around that actor who played Alicia. He was all sheepish and the girl played cute, in response to his sheepishness. The lab scene was precious.

Besides the examples mentioned above, there's JS and AoT. Their chemistry's not the hot and sweaty kind (that would be Mionel), but the salt-of-the-earth kind. The first time I watched them, I thought Martha was too old and Bo was too handsome to be a dad. But when they interacted with each other, tagteam-ed on Clark, argued, they felt right with each other. I'm convinced they knew each other long time and loved each other a lot. It helped that although criminally underused, AoT is talented enough to make what little material she had, work.

Take Relic for example. Almost everyone ate that up with a spoon, say Tom and Kristin were great in it. The chemistry really showed there.

I know this is looked down around here but.. BWAHAHA! Must be one of those Polly Pocket kitchen accessories.

ETA:

S1 had some lovely shadows as the writers played with Lex's [...] sexual ambiguity.

I won't credit the writers for that, DE. The flamboyancy, the slinkiness, the (of course) sexiness of Lex, was due to MR. The writers wouldn't dare bring in anything "wacky" (tm Jeph Loeb).

Edited by kwerkee, Jul 14, 2004 @ 8:17 PM.

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#16

DarkEmerald

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Posted Jul 14, 2004 @ 11:50 PM

The flamboyancy, the slinkiness, the (of course) sexiness of Lex, was due to MR.

No argument here--but the PTB did let it continue. For a whole season. And it was ambiguous.

Oh boy howdy, was it ever ambiguous.
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#17

Shropshire

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Posted Jul 15, 2004 @ 4:20 PM

DarkEmerald:

There's nothing less interesting than happy stories about happy people with happy endings.


Clark and Lana being perpetually miserable at each other is less interesting. If they were to suddenly start frolicing merrily with the squirrels and deer of the Kansas woods, it would be an odd blend of nauseating and a refreshing change.

But I agree in general that dark makes for better writing (and the best episodes of the series-Shattered, Asylum, Hourglass, Phoenix- bear this out)
and more generally interesting stories.
As long as it's cut with a little lightness, so that the viewer does not go insane and squeeze into an oven with their favourite action figure, promising to make the pain go away.
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#18

DarkEmerald

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Posted Jul 15, 2004 @ 4:29 PM

You are so right, Shropshire. Dark is better than happy, but anything's better than the pointless misery of the Clana. I wasn't thinking!

As for humor, oh my god yes. Dark and funny go together like Mulder and Scully, and I've never seen any reason why the PTB opened the valve on Smallville and let all the humor leak out. The show could be canon-a-licious with its damned comic-book primary colors and 2-dimensional characters, and still be dark and funny if they wanted it to be.

Perry was the last funny thing to happen, and that's too long ago.

And I just made myself laugh with the image of opening a valve on the Lana doll. In the theatre of my mind, she's flying crazily around the room as she deflates. Now that there? Damn funny.

Edited by DarkEmerald, Jul 15, 2004 @ 7:37 PM.

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#19

TGC-64

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Posted Jul 15, 2004 @ 7:36 PM

Perry was the last funny thing to happen, and that's too long ago.


The flying tractor gag was perfect, both it getting accidently launched and it's Monty Pythonesque dropping out of the sky just yards from the bus stop. And the clumsy cover-up afterwards was priceless, since you knew that nobody was buying any of it....they all just nodded their heads and keep right on going. "Move along, keep moving, ....nothing here to see. Move along..."

That, and the evil and naked FOTW's in the loony-bin. More nudity.....

Edited by TGC-64, Jul 15, 2004 @ 7:38 PM.

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#20

hachurui

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Posted Jul 15, 2004 @ 7:41 PM

Clark's (non)reaction to naked!Kara was fairly amusing.
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#21

DarkEmerald

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Posted Jul 15, 2004 @ 7:43 PM

I'm all for a nakedness, because the cast is so generally good to look at, and sometimes it can be pretty sexy, etc., but I'm very leery of nakedness used as a ratings-booster.

That (more than story logic or rational thought) seemed to be behind most of S3's bare skin, and I see it as a sign of apocalypse. There are hints among the spoilers that the PTB have still more skin in mind for S4, and I'm seeing motorcycles flying over shark tanks.

Oh, for the innocent days of S1, with a little Chloevage and some seemingly accidental duck and dillo sightings, all set like smaller sparkly gems around the One Big Exposure of Clark on a Stick.

Good times...
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#22

KFC

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Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 5:35 PM

In response to the first topic, I think that has in fact been the show’s biggest downfall--- big changes. As opposed to growth and development, too often I feel like TPTB will haphazardly alter their own canon in a misguided attempt at generating interest among disgruntled fans.

I feel like there’s just way too many changes for the show to feel like a cohesive entity. Most notably we have characters like Lana who have been altered and mutated time and again, and when coupled with inconsistent acting from KK, you’re just asking for trouble.

It’s become more apparent with each season that TPTB seems to have forget/abandoned the idea that SV is a show about young Clark Kent and how he develops into Superman. The show’s called Smallville, not Metropolis or Superman.

I remember an oft-repeated line when SV first premiered about how this show was “about the journey, not the destination.” If that was the original intent, and TPTB had a blueprint for that, they should have just stuck with it rather than (IMO) severely hacking and altering their own mythos. Granted, I suppose tweaking is inevitable, but I don’t see evidence of them trying to improve the show’s flaws, rather they revamp rather than rework, and as a viewer that just makes for difficult viewing.
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#23

mobiusklein

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Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 6:07 PM

Agreed, KFC. Actually, I would've preferred Lana REMAIN like she had been in S1. She may have been boring but I think that was supposed to be part of her character. She's boring because she's safe and normal and all the things that's out of reach for him. It was OK for her to be boring. But since people paid attention to Chloe (the flashier supporting character), they started tweaking Lana to make people pay attention to Lana and thus started the hamster wheel of hell and the Malibu Stacy (trademark someone else) makeovers that did bupkiss. They should've let well enough alone. I would've simply shrugged at her appearance on my TV instead of wanting to go into an Omar style rant every time she opens her mouth.

I heard they switched formats after S1 because of complaints about the FOTWs. Thing is that FOTWS should've been written BETTER on a more consistent basis. I liked Leech. People liked Hug and Hourglass. The B and C plots often had wonderful characterization moments. For me, what I liked about S1 was that they paid more attention to characterization and less to crazy plot twists.

In a sense Buffy has in a sense loads of FOTWs but Buffy were better at linking it with stuff that was going on in her regular life so it said something about her. I miss stuff like that. I like Drone, not because I like the bug story but I liked everything ELSE about it: Clark running for class president, Chloe's smackdown regarding who she wanted to support, Lex refusing to bail Lana out, the sprinkling of cute anvils and the sheer fact that I like almost everyone in that story. After all that's happened, I don't think that type of story would work anymore but I'll just say that I do miss the light humor, the fact that people hung out like real people, the fact that Clark is in HIGH SCHOOL, etc.
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#24

klulu

klulu

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Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 6:16 PM

2. Barring greed, attempted murder or krypto-related issues, which characters do you think would have made a viable love interest for Clark, Lex, Lana or Chloe?

I liked the chemistry between Chloe and Eric Summers in Leech. She was adorable with him.

3. Which of the recurring characters no longer around do you miss and wish was still on the show? What possible story line would you have liked to see them have?

Nixon, Hamilton, Nell - I miss 'em all. They helped make the main characters more multi-dimensional, and their scenes helped create the sense of on-going arcs, even when there weren't actual plot arcs. They were each able to interact with at least one character in such a way that they brought out different sides of said characters.

In particular, I think the chance to explore Nell's relationships with both Lionel and Jonathan - and therefore her connections to Martha and Lex - was sadly wasted. She could have been so much more than just 'Lana's aunt'.

I wouldn't have minded seeing them bring back Mayor Tate more often, but they sank that ship when they tied it to their Jackie O'Lang flashback. And Dominic - I definitely want Dominic to make more appearances.

Edited by klulu, Jul 16, 2004 @ 6:18 PM.

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#25

KFC

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Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 6:45 PM

Another thing I find a bit odd, is throughout the seasons, there's been a distinct lack of a primary character who actually likes living in Smallville.

I always thought the whole concept of SV was that it was a representation of Clark’s golden, idyllic, small town childhood (which again, shaped him into a the upstanding hero, etc…) that raised and taught him those “Middle America” (a term which I generally loathe, but I suppose it fits) morals, but was too small to hold him/his destiny. Personally, I find it funny (although perhaps it’s more accurate?) that just about everyone’s suffocating in SV and dying to escape when this place is supposed to be where Clark matures, comes of age, etc.
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#26

rikraq

rikraq

Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 7:34 PM

I just rewatched my Season 2 dvds and have a couple of questions:

So was Helen working for Lionel from the moment she met Lex? Why did she try to kill him? Was that Lionel's idea?

I don't get why Dr. Walden got power to destroy Clark from inserting the key. It makes sense that he would get blasted by the ray, because it wasn't meant for him. But why would it give him that power?
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#27

angiebee

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Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 7:42 PM

I heard they switched formats after S1 because of complaints about the FOTWs. In a sense Buffy has in a sense loads of FOTWs but Buffy were better at linking it with stuff that was going on in her regular life so it said something about her. I miss stuff like that


Last season the Network said the focus of the show would move away from the FOTWs and go into more sustaining storylines. What they did last season was an odd mix of sustaining and FOTWs. At the Smallville Paley Festival event Al or Miles (I can never tell who is who) tried to excuse the presence of the FOTWs by saying "Who else is Clark going to battle? Social Injustice? The lunch menu?" or something to that effect.

Which is an unsatisfactory excuse because of the above reference to Buffy. Buffy and Angel both were able to carry it off and it's sheer laziness or just sheer lack of creativity that the writers of Smallville cannot do the same for Smallville.

Forget Bart Simpson, Smallville is the underachiever and apparently they're proud of it.

3. Which of the recurring characters no longer around do you miss and wish was still on the show? What possible story line would you have liked to see them have?


Pete. I was so hurt by the departure of Pete. I think he could've been a better sounding board for Clark than he has been.
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#28

DarkEmerald

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Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 8:15 PM

So was Helen working for Lionel from the moment she met Lex? Why did she try to kill him? Was that Lionel's idea?

As with most things Lionel, this remains unclear to me. It's conceivable that even the original meeting of Lex and Helen could have been set up by Lionel--how hard would it be to insert someone into an anger management class? Prior to the wedding, Lex had photos of Helen speaking to/dealing with Lionel secretly, and there was that weird exchange in the mansion corridor where Helen refused Lionel's wedding gift.

In Phoenix (I think), Lionel accuses Morgan Edge of having bought Helen--again, with photographs of their dealings--but I didn't think it was clear whether Edge bought her out from Lionel, or got to her first. Her worth in either case seemed to revolve around the vial of Clark's blood, but how either Lionel or Morgan knew she had it or thought it was valuable is, again, unclear to me.

In the same episode, Lex tells Helen that if Lionel had meant Lex to be dead, he'd be dead. The implication there was that either Helen wasn't working for Lionel, or that she was but had failed--or that Lionel didn't want him dead. Why anyone besides a greedy-widow Helen would want Lex dead at that point is a complete mystery to me--maybe a keener viewer can supply some reasons.

That whole storyline was so blurred, and shoehorned in so carelessly amidst all the Lana, that even after watching S2 a couple of times, I'm not at all clear on anything about Helen.
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#29

Cyb

Cyb

    Stalker

Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 8:42 PM

I still don't understand the Helen storyline either. I thought at first she was an Evil Plant because Lex showing up in anger management with her was way too much to be coincidence. But then I thought, maybe it's just bad writing.

I don't get why Dr. Walden got power to destroy Clark from inserting the key. It makes sense that he would get blasted by the ray, because it wasn't meant for him. But why would it give him that power?

That's another mystery. Walden got the idea from the cave that Naman/Clark is bad, and set out to destroy him. Why would the cave give him this idea? Why would the cave give him the power to carry out his plan? In season 2, the cave gave Walden the power to destroy Clark. In season 3, it gave Bo and Jeremiah Coleslaw super powers for similar purpose. Either the cave is malfunctioning or it really does think Clark needs to be stopped.
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#30

PhantomChic

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Posted Jul 16, 2004 @ 9:02 PM

Either the cave is malfunctioning or it really does think Clark needs to be stopped.

Then it's not the only one. I totally agree with it. Maybe in the future Lex and Jor-El will have teamed up. We'll see Lex sitting with a hologram of Jor-El playing chess and talking about what an asshat Jor-El's son is and how Jor-El now considers Lex part of the family.

But unlike Bo, Jor-El won't disown when Lex when his familial status becomes inconvenient.

Edited by PhantomChic, Jul 16, 2004 @ 10:16 PM.

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