87 replies to this topic

[Aidansmom]

I watched most of the story of Galileo last night. It was pretty good, but the cheesy actor-looking-at-the-screen-like-we're-a-live-audience thing was grating.

I didn't know a lot about the guy, so I learned a lot. His relationship with his daughter was so interesting. She sounded like a saint in many ways. Also, the relationship with the Pope at the time (who's name escapes me) was something I'd never heard about. I had no idea they were friends and the dude totally betrayed Galileo.

But, there are many, many wonderful Nova programs, so let's discuss that here, shall we?

[possibilities]

I love NOVA. I still think about the program I saw a couple of years ago, where they talked about the earth's magnetic field reversing. No one believes me when I try to tell them about it.

Also, I loved the one about the coelocanth (I'm not sure I spelled that right)-- the fish that was an evolutionary link to something or other and after the first one was discovered by a scientist, the entire scientific community was reeling. They launched a worldwide search for another, it took years and years, and they couldn't find a second specimen until they finally flyered a fishing village somewhere or other and the fishers were like, "oh that-- yeah, we see those all the time." HA!

Edited by possibilities, Dec 18, 2005 @ 2:28 AM.

[gardenia]

possibilities, I love that one about the magnetic fields! I think my favorite thing about NOVAs is the way the show will spend 50 minutes convincing you the world is going to end because of magnetic fields reversing, a super flood, killer snakes, etc., and then the last 4 minutes will casually explain how, nah, it'll all be fine.

The Galileo-style full on recreations have got to go. Typhoid Mary was one of the worst offenders, IMO. Unintentionally funny, though.

[sobe]

Did anyone watch the most recent Nova about the family of handwalkers? I read a review for it, and it sounds fascinating.

"Nova" looks at a family in rural Turkey in which five of the siblings walk on all fours. The discovery has sparked fierce discussions about evolution, genetics and social environment.

Discovered in 2005 and called handwalkers, the family has received immense press attention as competing scientific theories abound -- particularly those of scientist Uter Tan, who found the family and has since made waves by saying its members are the product of "reverse evolution," describing them as "genetic throwbacks."

The review says that the show rarely delves into freak show territory, and that Tan's position has generated a lot of controversy. It's re-airing over the weekend.

[beezer]

I saw it, it was interesting. It wasn't freakshowish at all, and they presented a few different theories. One of which I found ridiculous, personally, but it was all interesting. It was also really sad.

Tan's position seemed much more plausible to me than the guy who felt they walked like that because, basically, their mother was too busy to bother helping them walk as infants and they're poor and remote. I found his entire postulate totally condescending and illogical. I mean if that's the explanation, seems there'd be a lot more handwalkers around.

When Tan describes what he means exactly, it made a lot of sense to me. I also like how they integrated paleoarcheology and other anomalous cases in examining the possibilities.

[Britty]

It was really sad. Seeing the village children yelling and throwing rocks at the oldest man, Hussain (?), was tough to watch.

the guy who felt they walked like that because, basically, their mother was too busy to bother helping them walk as infants and they're poor and remote.

I took that to mean that because they had pretty severe brain damage causing balance problems they bear-crawled from the beginning. The mother may have thought they would eventually grow out of it and didn't do anything. The other kids went from crawling to walking just fine without assistance, and she didn't realize that some of them wouldn't make the transition. I really wondered if the parents had no idea how severe the brain damage was. I was shocked that no one had ever thought to get them frame walkers! That was the first thing that came to my mind.

[beezer]

I agree that's what he meant, I think it's totally bogus, personally. It makes no sense to me that with nearly 7 billion people on the planet, the majority of them poor and without access to modern physiotherapy, there wouldn't be far more people who ended up walking on all fours in that manner, if his explanation were correct.

[two shoes]

I saw the last half of the show the repeat this afternoon. I missed the part where the village children threw stones at Hussain, but I nearly cried when they said that the dog was the only family member that could calm him down and that Sofia tended to withdraw into herself. It was just so heartbreaking. I really felt for Dafne when she talked to the scientist and basically told him she was tired of hearing about theories and wanted to see some actual assistance.

I missed the first half of the show, so I missed Tan and I can't really comment on the genetics stuff. I didn't think that the English guy's argument was so far-fetched. The family was pretty isolated, impoverished and huge (19 kids?), I could buy that they didn't have enough knowledge about possible therapies or resources. And the end narration mentioned that other handwalkers have been found around the world.

[IvySpice]

they had pretty severe brain damage

I wish they had done more to explain how the handwalkers were affected mentally. They showed that one was unable to do an experimental task with a pegboard, but they didn't explain what the task was supposed to test (cognitive problem-solving? fine motor coordination? ability to follow directions?) We only heard one affected daughter speaking, the one who said that she'd like to get married -- are they unable to speak normally, or were they just shy around the strangers? Do they take care of themselves within the family, or do others have to help them wash, dress, etc.?

Fascinating topic, but Nova could have done a better job putting the show together.

[VersesBatman]

I thought I heard that the parents were cousins.

[beezer]

They were cousins, but - I agree with IvySpice, they could have explained more, assuming they know more, about the derivation of the problems and what they were.

A recent study showed there's only a tiny increased risk of birth defects among first cousins reproducing, so I wondered how much of an impact that had, or if the parents themselves were the result of close familial intermarrying.

[Vetasimmons]

My local PBS station had a Nova program tonight called "Dogs and More Dogs" narrated by John Lithgow. It talked about the history of the domestic dog and how they came to be. Towards the end of the program, there was a lot of talk about inbreeding and how people breed so much for looks that they are creating a lot of dogs that are suffering terribly with genetic diseases. They interviewed some of these breeders who were really obsessed with the physical appearances of their dogs, down to wanting a slightly longer neck or a slightly more muscular leg. It was really eye-opening. Also, there was a dog behaviorist who talked about how people choose breeds for purposes like they want an easy-care breed, so they pick a short -haired dog like a Visla to live in an apartment. Well, a Visla can run 50 miles without becoming tired. People need to choose breeds appropriate to their lifestyle. Lithgow said that 5,000,000 dogs are euthanized in the US every year because people can't deal with them, and this is because they don't know what they're doing. It's heartbreaking. Don't choose a dog that has been bred to have high energy and herd sheep if you are going to leave him in the backyard all his life to go crazy and never take him for a run. Honestly, people and their egos!

I have a fairly low energy dog and I take her for an hour-long walk every day, even though I have a large backyard. A dog needs to get out and see the world.

This show did make me see dog shows in a whole new light.

[Ailine]

I was glad to see that they mentioned Dalmatians and Viszlas as dogs that are inappropriate for most people's lifestyles. Our Dalmatian was an endurance machine. She could trot along at a steady pace for hours and hours at a time and never get winded. It was very impressive. If she wasn't taken for enough exercise, she would just trot around the perimeter of our backyard. It wasn't until she became elderly that she was content to spend her time asleep in the kitchen. Lots of people buy Dalmatians because of the movies, or because they want a distinctive looking dog, but they are really very high maintenance. It's just not the sort of maintenance that a dog with an elaborate coat requires.

Overall, that was a really interesting episode. And I feel truly evil for saying this, but I laughed til I cried at Bo the Narcoleptic Dachsund. I loved the long shot of him running down the hall and just flopping over in excitement, and the mention that really good canned dog food was such a high point to him. Such a cute little dog.

The dog breeders really bothered me.

[sweetjane]

I enjoyed this past Tuesday's show, "Bone Diggers." I'm not always into the paleontology shows, but I have a fascination with Australia, marsupials, and caves, so of course I had to tune in if they were going to find the bones of a prehistoric predatory marsupial. I liked the first half, when they were actually exploring the caves and discovering the bones, a little more than the second half when they were analyzing them and reconstructing the Thylacoleo carnifex, or "meat-cutting marsupial lion," although that was still pretty interesting. The half-million-year-old intact skeleton seemed like the discovery of a lifetime, and it was also interesting to hear descriptions of the other giant marsupials they mentioned -- the "8-foot kangaroos" and "wombats the size of buffalo."

[meknownothing]

Last night's episode was the best explanation of epi-genetics I'd ever heard. I'd listened to explanations of it before, but not one so clear and succinct. Tying in the science to the specific examples of twins made the show even more compelling, especially the two young sisters, one of whom is autistic. I'm surprised that they gave no hints at a chemical cure for autism, given the results on mice with chemically-induced genetic changes not in the offspring, but in the behavior of the original mouse. Genetics always seemed to imply you are what you are, with no possibility of change. Epi-genetics allows for the possibility of change.

[nohwheregirl]

Did anybody else watch "Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial"? I never imagined it would be so entertaining to watch the "intelligent design" people get systematically destroyed in a court of law.

[seniorsleuth]

I saw it and it was absolutely riveting television. The judge and journalists inside the courtroom seem to have been riveted as well, by the science. Shame of it is, it will probably never be allowed to be shown in US public schools.

[tootlegub]

I caught most of it. I wish I had tuned in earlier. I need to check to see if it will be re-run. I taught biology in the Bible Belt and vowed that if I were ever told to teach religion in my classroom, I'd immediately resign.

[Orion7]

That was a great show. Nova is always interesting, but this was a cut above. Watching the evidence fall into place was indeed riveting. It's depressing that the scientific use of the word "theory" needs to be explained to people who have graduated from high school, because that should be part of any basic science education. I also was interested in the extent that the Scopes Monkey trial repressed the teaching of evolution altogether. I was taught a little bit about it back in the seventies, but I lived in a pretty liberal school district.

Some of my favorite parts of the testimony was when one witness admitted that under his definition of "science," astrology would qualify, and the work done by the woman who discovered the poorly done replacement of the word "creationist" in the text.

The two men who brought this all on the district were exposed for the frauds they were, and it was very satisfying. At least one of them originally ran for the school board because they were concerned about a building project, yet they ended up costing the district a million dollar in legal fees for the plaintiffs, plus whatever they were charged by the Thomas More Society. Good fiscal management there, guys.

It was also pretty amusing that the Discovery Institute has done its best to distance itself from the whole mess.

[seniorsleuth]

I need to check to see if it will be re-run.

It can be streamed on the website (pbs.org). I wish it was available for purchase.

[YuppieLawyer]

I was riveted, too. I'm a law geek, so I read the judge's entire decision when it was handed down. He pretty systematically destroyed the every argument of the defense and flat-out said that those two school board members had lied under oath in the case. To my knowledge, perjury charges were never filed. I have to admit that I learned more about evolution reading that court opinion than I ever remember learning in school. I went to high school in rural east Texas, and I remember my biology teacher saying evolution was true and that it was still happening to this day, but that's all I think we were ever told about it.

[tootlegub]

I went to high school in rural south Texas. My biology teacher never even taught evolution. (I think it's the because the most reliable substitute teacher in our school was Pentecostal and her kids were in my class. Good subs are hard to find.) Anyway, my first evolution lesson came from our preacher (Episcopalian if that explains anything). She gave a wonderful sermon about how knowledge didn't have to destroy faith but should further it. She explained basic concepts of natural selection and praised God for being so smart and loving as to give us such a gift. It was definitely an intelligent design lesson, but it was taught exactly where it needed to be- in church. And while I don't necessarily believe in ID, I think it can be a great way for churches and parents of faith (but not schools and definitely not science teachers) to teach kids that ignorance is not a requirement of faith.

And believe me, the definition of "theory" is part of every science curriculum from elementary to high school. It can be taught- it can even be taught well, but it's not necessarily going to be retained. I hope my kids understood and retained it. I think I explained, sung, acted out the concept of a theory every single day I was with them.

[YuppieLawyer]

Yeah, I am always amazed when people say, "Evolution is a theory, not a fact." I always want to answer, "A theory has a much more solid foundation than a fact, you moron!" Ugh. The other thing I find interesting is the idea that people have that you can't be a person of faith, and still believe in evolution. That's just ridiculous. Evolution does not claim to explain the origin of life. It is a theory explaining the origin and diversity of species. Evolution does not make any claim on how life first began. It's entirely possible to believe that God created the building blocks of life and built in the potential for evolution to take its course, and still believe that species, including humans, evolved.

My favorite little fun part of the show was the lawyer talking about how the draft of the textbook that had "cdesign proponentists" was like a transitional fossil between "creationists" and "design proponents." That made me giggle.

[tootlegub]

My favorite little fun part of the show was the lawyer talking about how the draft of the textbook that had "cdesign proponentists" was like a transitional fossil between "creationists" and "design proponents." That made me giggle.

I more than giggled at that part. And every time I'm told that evolution is a theory, not a fact, I answer with "so is gravity".

[Kev]

It can be streamed on the website (pbs.org). I wish it was available for purchase.

Do you have a direct link to the page seniorsleuth? I seem to be having problems navigating PBS' website.

[seniorsleuth]

Judgment Day

But it looks like it will not be available to stream until tomorrow.

Edited by seniorsleuth, Nov 15, 2007 @ 12:31 PM.

[Kev]

Grrr! It doesn't seem to be playing yet.

[seniorsleuth]

Grrr! It doesn't seem to be playing yet.

That's strange. I got it to play yesterday.

[dagny]

That one board member who kept saying that evolution was a slap in his face about his religion and that evolution undermined(?) everybody's morals because it kept them from go kept pissing me off. IMHO the FSM could make the same claim, but it still wouldn't change the fact that kids should be taught the best science. I'll just leave the morals part alone.

The entire program was a good evolutionary biology class.

[Kel Varnsen]

I more than giggled at that part. And every time I'm told that evolution is a theory, not a fact, I answer with "so is gravity".

That is sort of what I always thought, if a "designer" created all life as he wanted, how do we not know a "holder" is keeping us all from flying into space. This show was interesting, even though I didn't watch the whole thing I am tempted to watch it off of the website. The description of intelligent design explained it better than I ever heard. I always thought intelligent design was just evolution with a guiding hand making sure it happens. But it turns out that it is total creationism with no relation between species and ones that came before them.