633 replies to this topic

[TigerVivy13]

Sorry about that Glark!

Shinji: The Hoyay! with Kaoru, the masturbating in front of a catatonic Asuka , the relationship with Rei. Is this kid seriously fucked up by his own mind, or is he a victim of circumstance?

Asuka: German firebomb, add your points of view about how her mother fucked with her head, how her obssessive competitveness with Shinji led to her demise. discuss the significance of the End of Evangelion with the woman that Shinji was left with was her

Rei: Her creepy relantionship with Gendo, her pairing with the Lance of Longinous, her quiet courage. how she was cloned over and over again

The finale. A huge fuck you to the fans after Gainax received death threats after the original end of the series. Cool trivia: The flashing words seen in the End of Evangelion movie are the actual death threats that he received.

[cronox5]

Did Cartoon Network pick it up? I've heard about the series so long and have never seen it.

[Leanan]

CN played a couple of episodes during Giant Robot Week, but I think it airs on ADV's Anime Network. ADV and CN have a strained relationship after the failure of Giant Robot Week, so I wouldn't count on seeing Evangelion on Adult Swim anytime soon.

Anywho, Eva was a nice enough series, but I never got fanatical about it. I only liked two characters, Misato and Kaji. Watermelons, hee! Of course they both had to die. Oh, and I loved Pen"2. Asuka also had her moments. Her reawakening and fight against the Eva series is one of my favorite moments in the movie. But I will never be a fan of Shinji.

Anybody actually like the way the last few episodes turned out? I didn't see what was so bad. I liked the introspective looks at the characters, and the animation didn't bother me too much.

Edited by Leanan, Jun 9, 2004 @ 12:45 AM.

[anna_w]

I love the series. Despite what some people said, I never think that it's as complicated as they made it out to be. The end of the TV series is actually not that different from the movie ending. And no, neither are the fuck you to the fans. The movie simply shows some real life situations that ep.25 and 26 failed to show due to the constraint of the budget.

I actually sympathise with Shinji. He's completely screwed over by everyone, especially his own father and mother. At a young age, he has to see his own mother perished inside something that is supposed to be mankind's salvation. Then his own father abandoned him. When he's 15, his own father gives him a call because he needs the kid to be a tool for his project. Anyone will be messed up after experiencing what Shinji had to experience.

I like the relationship between Shinji and Asuka as volatile and fucked up as it may seem. Despite what they both think of each other and of what they think the other think of themselves, they both are equally wrong on some level. Shinji thinks Asuka hates him while the truth is, her feelings for him is far more complex than that. Asuka thinks that Shinji only wants her because she's the convenient and non-threatening entity in comparison to Ayanami or Misato but the truth is, I've seen times when Shinji likes Asuka because she is Asuka.

Rei is a mysterious entity whose existence is fucked up by one jerk. With each successive version of herself, however, she wises up and finally tells the jerk to go to hell and decide to help the one person who genuinely cares for her, Shinji. This is exactly why Shinji gets the choice to determine the fate of everyone because despite his flaws, he wins over the sympathy of the three people who matters the most in the instrumentality process: his mother, Rei, and Kaoru.

Edited by anna_w, Jun 9, 2004 @ 3:02 AM.

[Phishtar]

the masturbating in front of a catatonic Asuka
Was that in one of the movies? Or was I really not paying attention.

Shinji I think is 50-60 percent circumstances, 40-50 percent just who he was. I think his personality contributed to the general fucked-up-ness.

See, my big problem with this series? Not enough Kaji.

[john mora]

About the end of End of Evangelion:

If you look closely, you can see that it's not quite the same Asuka as before. The eye color has changed to Misato's, I believe. Along with the wounds that harken back to Rei's in the first episode, many believe that this is not the true Asuka, but an amalgam of the three women in his life.

[Leanan]

See, my big problem with this series? Not enough Kaji.

A million times word! I <3 Kaji.

Shinji masturbated in front of a comatose Asuka at the beginning of End of Evangelion. It's uh... yeah. There really are no words.

I heard that there was no change in Asuka's eye color at the end. I'll have to dig up the EVA FAQ that I found. It explained why people might see a different color. Personally, I think it's just ol' Asuka at the end, not an amalgam of Asuka, Rei and Misato. YMMV, of course.

[TigerVivy13]

I am one of those who think that it is an amalgam of the three women at the end. The bandages were identical and Asuka really didn't seem like herself.


I also think that Shinji is a victim of both circumstance and his own delusion. The whole thing with Gendo, needing his only child only when it's convienient and showing a blatant preference to Rei, would mess with anybody's head.

I <3 Kaji too! He and Misato were so cute together, which is one of the only bright spots in the series.

[anna_w]

If you look closely, you can see that it's not quite the same Asuka as before. The eye color has changed to Misato's, I believe. Along with the wounds that harken back to Rei's in the first episode, many believe that this is not the true Asuka, but an amalgam of the three women in his life.

Nah. That theory is very popular amongst fans but there's not an ounce of truth in it given the fact that

Yui told his son that everyone who wants to come back to life can do so. In order for Asuka to be an amalgam of the three women, Shinji will have to wish for it. But there is no proof that he has that kind of power. The cancellation of instrumentality simply means, as Rei/Kaoru puts it, the ability of everyone to regain their form should they choose to do so. Shinji chooses to return to his form and so does Asuka.

If that's not enough, here's a spoiler picture from the cardass mastercard, showing
Asuka's real eye colors. As you can see, it's still blue and only a little bit grey-ish because the color tones of the world during that time is red

same old Asuka.

Also, Asuka's last word, can't possibly be uttered by anyone but her. It's a precise word that describe her emotions and feelings about Shinji and herself at that point.

Edited by anna_w, Jun 9, 2004 @ 11:42 PM.

[Leanan]

Damn, anna_w beat me to it. I was trying to dig up the link to the EVA FAQ (Looks like we have the same source). It has a lot of information that helped me understand the film and the series.

[deadpill]

I liked Evangelion. It's kind of overrated, but it's still very very good.

I fucking hate Shinji with a passion. He is the most despicable piece of shit I've ever seen. If Megumi Ogata didn't voice him, I would completely hate him. Damn you Ogata-sama for being my favorite Japanese voice actor!! Gawd, does Shinji suck.

Asuka and Misato were my favorite characters. Asuka was bat-shit crazy, but also very interesting. Her past made me feel a lot of sympathy for her, and her drive and ambition never failed to impress me.

[Phishtar]

See, I hated Asuka. I know she had a horrible past but it didn't stop me from yelling "shut up" every time she came on. "I know your life sucks! So does everyone else's! Shut up about it already!" But I loved Misato.

Did anyone but me feel that Ritsuko's affair with Gendo was...I don't know, kind of unearned and tacked on 'cause they needed an excuse to kill all the little Rei clones? It just seemed so out of character for her, or at least as her character had been established to me.

[anna_w]

Did anyone but me feel that Ritsuko's affair with Gendo was...I don't know, kind of unearned and tacked on 'cause they needed an excuse to kill all the little Rei clones? It just seemed so out of character for her, or at least as her character had been established to me.

I agree. It feels as if the writers suddenly realises that "Oops, we haven't given her a story/developed her at all. So what can we do to make her as fucked up as the rest of them? I know, let her have an affair with Gendo"

[Scade]

I don't know, I liked the parallelism of her falling for the same man her mother did, only to be screwed over in a similar way.

[deadpill]

Oh yeah, there was Ritsuko. I didn't really like her. I'm not sure why.

[Kris_AB]

Anna, that FAQ you linked to is superb. I watched the series and movies over the course of about a year or so recently, renting a DVD every month or so...I like to think I kept track of the story pretty well and can usually follow a somewhat complicated and/or surreal plot, but EVA threw me a few times, especially at the end there. I appreciate the ending a hell of a lot more now (although Asuka's "You're pathetic." to Shinji was perfect before I read the FAQ and still is. 'Cause for all the reasons behind him being so messed up, and for all the sympathy he might've deserved, in the end I just couldn't help continuing to feel annoyed at him and viewing him as exactly that).

The Christian imagery was just to be unique (in Japan) and cool? All right, it would've helped knowing that going in, to save me from trying to draw religious connections beyond the superficial.

Edited by Kris_AB, Jun 12, 2004 @ 12:36 PM.

[john mora]

The bane of an Eva fan is overanalysis. :b

[Miss Alli]

Y'all, if this has aired already, plot details aren't spoilers and you shouldn't be tagging them. An entire thread of black bars is totally annoying. Thanks.

[TigerVivy13]

I'm pretty confused. I find that the spoiler situation is a bit vague. The series has never aired on television with the exception of a few introductory episodes. However, the whole series as well as the movies available on DVD. Its difficult to assume where everyone's progress is through the series.

So do DVD's get tagged as spoilers?

[Phishtar]

Edited to add, for any mods who might not now: the series has never aired on American television, but it is indeed a TV show. Even the last two episodes, which were like clip shows, only worse.

I think if we just get something we agree on and stick to it we should be fine. The series has been out so long I think we can consider it non-spoiler; but I don't know about the movies, as they're newer. But it's all out on DVD, so...

Edited by Phishtar, Jun 11, 2004 @ 10:44 PM.

[john mora]

Ah ah, I believe someone said on the first page that this WAS shown during Cartoon Network's Giant Robot Week.

[deadpill]

Well, I think that all the black bars regarding any of the anime series are kind of useless, because they already aired in Japan. If you don't want to be spoiled, maybe you should just stay out of the thread?

[anna_w]

Anna, that FAQ you linked too is superb.

:) I wish I did the linking but it was actually Leanan who did it. I only post the Asuka picture.

[Scade]

Even the last two episodes, which were like clip shows, only worse

Are those two episodes really as hated as I've heard? I always thought that was just internet hype, and that most people weren't as upset. I never blinked an eye at them, really. Not from a series that gave us that... what was it called, Dulac Sea? episode. Of course, the movie did kick ten times more ass.

[john mora]

Yeah, the Sea of Dirac. :b

And I liked the last two episodes, but I'd totally believe it if someone told me 75% of the fans hated them.

[Scade]

Yeah, the Sea of Dirac. :b

Heh. I was close!

[Phishtar]

The last two episodes didn't really surprise me, I was kind of prepared but I don't think they would've anyway-- it was pretty similar to some of the other Long Interior Monologues. But they didn't add anything much-- we see flashes that may or may not indicate that Misato and Ritsuko are dead, Gendo and Rae are up to something, and Shinji apparently thinks Kaji's still alive (though how he can maintain that lie to himself, I'll never know). And that...was pretty much it. IMO of course.

I suppose I do have to watch the movies, what with the masturbating and all. Is there more Kaoru?

[john mora]

In a way, yes.

[Phishtar]

Ah...Evangelion, you promise so much and deliver so...so much of what I don't expect.