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#2311

shopgirl406

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 1:46 AM

Boys are can turn anything into a gun. My then 5 year old had a piece of bread, bit of a large corner and showed me his gun. That said, Dan was so disrespectful. Really can't understand the dad just standing there. I'm not so sure military school would work for him. Maybe working in a third world country for a while just to see how great he has it here in America.
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#2312

wj 737 200

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 2:31 AM

rockclimber

I for one totally agree with the son's views. Most of you are hating on him because you disagree with him. It makes perfect sense for him to say this country is sham. We stole this country and then placed its people in poverty. You cannot say otherwise. And, why is saying that you want to burn the flag so radical. People have been doing that for decades in order to profess their disappointment in this country.



I don't know about other posters but I know i'm not neccessarily dissagreeing with his views, it's just the way he went about expressing his opinions to Armymom. Sure some of his views may be right but he I don't think that's why he's getting the royal snark ass kick on this board he's getting it because he was 'over the top' in expressing his views. In other words, he said it like a little shit.
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#2313

Tunia

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 2:33 AM

More to the topic, a ways back on the thread there was a discussion of the "dirty secret" that this show and "Trading Spouses" go out of their way to solicit participants. One website posted a letter they got to that effect, their reply was "Hell No!"


How interesting also, LittleSable, that the organization that Trading Spouses chose to contact in this instance is named "Heartless Bitches". Just goes to show that not only DO they solicit, but it is their mission to find the most controversial of potential participants for their show.

Edited by Tunia, Mar 3, 2005 @ 2:35 AM.

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#2314

Theredqueen

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 3:42 AM

What an insufferable little shit that Dan was. Every word that came out of his mouth was like nails on a chalk board. Personally I'm what you would call "middle of the road" I don't particularly like being called a "conservative" or "liberal". I do believe some of what Dan said was true, but the way he acted was beyond disrespectful. He was purposely antagonizing the "new" mom until she cried. If you can't argue in an adult manner, with well thought out disagreements and you have to resort to yelling and belittling a person then you need to keep your mouth shut. For someone who demanded that he be heard and his thoughts be respected he didn't listen or respect the "new" mom. Also being a teenager doesn’t give him the right to be rude and disrespectful. I'm super opinionated but when I was that age I would have NEVER made a guest in my home cry and if I did my parents would have killed me! Which leads me to another point:

Hey guess what parents! You can teach your kid to be opinionated AND to respect you! It's not that difficult, try it!

Funny how the conservative "close minded" family ended up learning and changing more in there lives then the liberal "open minded" family.

Also: Conservative mom, that whole Adam and Eve =Women doing all the work was super crazy. Oh yeah and Liberal mom, clean your house.
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#2315

elokin

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 4:17 AM

ConservativeMom was right when she said to Dan, "You're such a teenager." She summed it up perfectly.
The LiberalDad was a complete cipher! Complete disappointment.

That being said, this episode had me laughing out loud through the entire thing.
I lean far to the left of the political spectrum, so I agreed with a number of Dan's viewpoints... but... what as asshat. Truly.
(I was reminded of arguments I've had with my stepdad, who I can't even talk to anymore.)
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#2316

Keithy

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 6:46 AM

First, let me just say, being a socially far left leaning liberal, I agree with the vast majority of what Dan had to say. And, I thought the ideas of the conservative family and their friends were completely wacked out.

Having said, I could not stand the way Dan behaved. As the conservative mom said, you can have different ideas from other people, but you can still treat them with respect. (paraphrase.)

I'd rather sit down to dinner with the conservative non confrontational family and exchange ideas rather that sit down at the table with an ass, even if I agreed with everything he had to say.

I know people like Dan in real life, and even though I agree with them, I can't stand to be around them. Nobody has the right to treat others like shit, no matter how wacked out their ideas are.
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#2317

Ptzop

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 6:54 AM

Sure some of his views may be right but he I don't think that's why he's getting the royal snark ass kick on this board he's getting it because he was 'over the top' in expressing his views. In other words, he said it like a little shit.


Exactly. I hated how he we state his opinions and then, as soon as the conservative mom tried to respond, he would cut her off to yell at her for not respecting/listening to other viewpoints. Way to get in the way of your own point, Poindexter.

Good TV moment: when the conservative dad (he seemed so *young*!) got all "awww" when he saw the art on the wall and talked about how the kids used to do that stuff when they had pre-school but not anymore. (I, personally, would lean towards a less clean house & creative kids moreso than the other direction. )

Is it really weird to have kids call their folks "sir" and "ma'am"? Seemed weird to me.
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#2318

gaPeach

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 7:53 AM

Axl Rose wannabe...I mean Dan, you better get your butt to mexico because we wouldn't want you in Canada either.


Ha! This cracked me up. I think this is the only time I heard someone in Canada say no to someone coming up there!


I think when Armywife said that thing about Adam & Eve she regretted it because she started backpedaling after she said it. And I found it hard to believe she really believed it because of her training in the service. At the end when she told her hubby and the hippie couple that she thought she had to do everything perfect or she would lose him explained why she said that Adam & Eve thing. I am so glad they relaxed a little with the kids and he is staying home more. Other than that I think they were a happy family before the show.

Ah Dan. What can I say that hasn't already been posted? It boils down to an angry teenager that will never know as much as he does now. I want to know if he was raised with all this "love", "freethinking", "peaceloving", why is he so pissed off? And why no manners? His mom seemed to be able to express her views without getting into a fight about it. (but she did use coined phrases a lot too so I know where Dan got it from. Like "War never solved anything" Oh really? I would suspect that World War II vets would tend to disagree with you.) No yelling or disrepect. If he is being passive I will take the military family everytime. And if I called my dad by his name instead of "dad", I would have found myself in my room for awhile thinking about what I said.
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#2319

TheXanMan

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 8:15 AM

I think the reason Dan was actually more infuriating for me than even CondiKris is because it is so painful to watch someone whose side of the fence you tend to lean toward act like such. an. asshole. I swear by the end I was ready to register as a Republican just to disassociate myself completely with him.

And also, Dan? Drums? Such a cliche. I love how "troubled" youth who like to think they're sooooo unique gravitate toward the same things. Long hair. Saying highly offensive things purely for shock value. Being in some sort of band. Thank God we didn't have to hear him sing one of his songs because you KNOW he wrote some crappyass songs.

Episodes like this reenforce my total fear of procreating. On the one hand, you have the cute lil ConservativeKids. Who are cute. But then there's Rosemary's Baby, er, "Dan." In re parenting I've always thought that I would never be a totalitarian with kids and would never spank them or anything along those lines. But about halfway through last night's ep I wishing I could jump into the TV and hand BushMom a switch.

Edited by TheXanMan, Mar 3, 2005 @ 8:19 AM.

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#2320

parsleysage

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 8:27 AM

Boys are can turn anything into a gun. My then 5 year old had a piece of bread, bit of a large corner and showed me his gun

I've heard that there was some research done that if all guns and knives, etc are taken away from boys, they will bite off their PB&J sandwich into the shape of a gun and shoot each other with that. That said, how unbelievably cute was that little Conservative Boy, when pointed out to him that the police might think his toy gun was real, says, "And they'll shoot me?" Little Conservative Girl was A-DORABLE! Actually, I liked both Moms. They were both very pretty. And both pretty reasonable.
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#2321

squirrleyQ

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 8:34 AM

There is a word for Dan and it is not pacsivist(I don't know if I spelled that right) anyway-the word is antagonist. I agree everyone has their opinions but if you want your opinion heard and respected you don't do it like Dan did.

I will not go into my beliefs but I will say regardless of what they are I would have knocked Dan's teeth down his throat.

Yes maam, yes sir is not weird if you are from the south(Kentucky counts) and also if you are reared by people who are military where everything is answered with maam or sir it is not weird.

It is considered proper manners and a show of respect for children to say yes maam, etc in the south and also a show of respect in the military.
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#2322

mutantmagnet

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 8:48 AM

Is it really weird to have kids call their folks "sir" and "ma'am"? Seemed weird to me.


Nowhere near as disturbing as Dan always addressing his father by his name and never as dad, pops, father, old man :|



or even sir ;)


The conservative parents was "closed minded" when it comes to their politics and in the case of the wife, religion.

What they were "open minded" to was their relationship with themselves and their kids as a family.

The liberal parents were already more aware of their problems than the conservative parents and were never able to confront Dan to begin with. They simply have been unable to be stern enough to steer Dan into being a more respectable being and that timidity has stuck with them for far longer than the isolationist segregated work ethic practiced by the conservative parents which is why it's pretty easy to see such a huge leap in how the conservative family changed as opposed to the liberal family.

Edited by mutantmagnet, Mar 3, 2005 @ 8:58 AM.

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#2323

Scholls1

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 9:02 AM

Political, social, and religious beliefs or lack thereof to the side -

Dan is pathetic. And I even suspect he knows it. He was chasing her around to prove his point. There was some desperation in his wanting so badly to be proclaimed the brightest and most enlightened of them all.

Even more pathetic is that the parents seem quite clear they have a major problem with Dan. He is lost to them. And even more pathetic is that the other one is on the same path, and the parents are too proud and righteous about the way they have raised the kids, that they probably will find it impossible to change the path the younger one is on.

Let me say again - this has nothing to do with their beliefs. It's about an out-of-control situation, and the parents for the sake of pride will allow the younger child to suffer the consequences. Booooo!

And booo to the thought that the woman should be "under" the heel of the man. Boooooooooo!
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#2324

DrCher

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 9:07 AM

-I agreed with a lot of what Dan had to say, but he was rude and almost cruel to AirforceMom. He's a very angry young man who needs some help. Earlier in the program, didn't the voiceover mention that Dan was adopted when he was 4 or 5? I wonder if anything traumatic happened which could account for all his angst.

-We are a military family. I'm a veteran/reservist and MrCher is currenty AD. While I understand that it is in our oath of enlistment to obey the President's orders, that doesn't mean deification. I can't stand that pro-war, ask-no-questions, love-Bushie-forever mentally a lot of military families, like AirforceMom, have.
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#2325

kimnkitties

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 9:13 AM

The Conservativekids were really cute when Mom came home, especially the little girl - so happy to see her.
I thought it was funny when LiberalMom was giving her new rules about getting rid of guns and toys of destruction and worked herself into a hopping, shouting spasm. Real peaceful.
ConservativeMom handled Dan better than I would have. I agree that regardless of what he said, he was an antagonist, and evidently one that stank - literally and figuratively. Dad admitting that it was time for him to get out of the house makes one wonder how much worse it can be when the cameras aren't around. I would worry about his influence on the younger boy.
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#2326

Whoknew

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 10:09 AM

None of these people seemed to have a ton of brainpower to spare, but at least all the adults seemed good-hearted. I'll reserve judgment on Dan's heart till he grows up, but his behavior was certainly out of line. I did just about fall off the couch laughing when he started doing the dishes out of sheer contrariness. He was so determined to antagonize War Mom that all of a sudden Mr. No Shower was willing to clean and help around the house, just because she didn't want him to! (Did the other son ever utter a single word?)

I am uncomfortable with the new trend on this show toward having the visiting mom order the host family to proclaim views they don't believe (the Republican sign in the lesbian couple's yard, War Mom at the peace rally, etc.). It just seems a little totalitarian. Also, Exaggerating Voiceover Man is getting on my last nerve. "In the WarMom household, there's NO PLACE FOR FUN!" Sure, whatever.
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#2327

LolaLilaLilly

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 10:14 AM

I don't necessairly hate Dan because of his anti-War/Bush/Republican views.

I hate him for his anti-AMERICA views!

How he completely disprespected the men who died for this country to give us freedom, not in 2003 but in the 1700s!

There's NO call for him blasting the entire nation, the Flag and America as whole like that.

Like I said, if he dosen't like it he can get the hell out.
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#2328

xerinahsss

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 10:44 AM

I for one totally agree with the son's views. Most of you are hating on him because you disagree with him.


It's not because we disagree with his views, it's because of his total lack of respect for people regardless of his views.

The little conservakids were adorable. There's nothing wrong with teaching little kids some discipline. Kids should learn at a young age to show respect for adults and to clean up. Not necessarily as extreme as lining up shoes under the bed, but the younger they learn these things, the better.

Edited by xerinahsss, Mar 3, 2005 @ 10:45 AM.

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#2329

crazy_girl

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 10:50 AM

Dan was just being a total immature ass. Granted, not every teen is like this but it seemed to me that Dan was a smart kid who studied a lot but unfortunately didn't have any social skills to help make him into a decent person.

As for the whole "if he doesn't like it, he can get the hell out!" sentiment, he is only 17 years old. I doubt he has much say in where he lives. His parents seem to be against war and against Bush but it seems to me that they like the country.

Dan exhausted me. I'm very liberal and pretty much an athiest but I have numerous religious family members and quite a few conservative friends and I would never dream in a million years of attacking the beliefs that they hold dear.

It broke my heart to see how happy the conservative kids were when they found out their dad would be home more often. I don't know if it was a financial need that kept him at work for 12 hours or if he just loved his job but damn, that's a lot of work. When I was a kid my parents worked way too much and I wish more parents would realize that kids will usually choose to give up a lot of their toys and family trips if it means that mom or dad gets to stay home more often.
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#2330

lmwilker

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 10:58 AM

With War Mom being so Biblically submissive and all I wonder what happened to her first marriage? Jesus preached mightily against divorce but never said word one about homosexuals.
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#2331

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 11:31 AM

Even if I agree with your philosophy, if you are unable to have a respectful discussion with someone with an opposing viewpoint, I’m still going to think you’re an asshole. Dan, you’re an asshole.

I for one totally agree with the son's views. Most of you are hating on him because you disagree with him.

No. Even those of us who align politically more with Dan than with the Bush-stumpers think that Dan is a self-satisfied, repugnant little shit. Not to mention hypocritical – he was by far the most “intolerant” person on the show. I hope he’s planning to take his entitled little butt to work in a third-world country as soon as he can. With that attitude, he better be ready to put his money where his big fat yap is.

Dan, hurry up and leave home while you still know everything!
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#2332

UncleJemima

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 11:36 AM

I didn't think Dan was speaking his conscience at all when he was attacking MilitaryMom. Please, like he's spent so much time thinking about the plight of the Native American, much like Bush spent many a sleepless night worrying because the Iraqi People Are Not Free!

Dan seems like the kind of person who'll make himself miserable just to antagonize other people, all the while claiming he doesn't care what other people think, except that he really does. After the religion argument, ConservaMom totally nailed it when she said she had never seen anyone so full of hate, but I think she mistakenly conflates it with his "liberal" beliefs when in fact, he's only acting out his self-hatred. Because he feels so essentially powerless, he also hates anything with authority or power over him, both conservative and liberal, and he's perfectly content to use whatever weapons he has on hand to share his pain with the world. Liberalism is just another excuse for him to be a teenaged asshole. He's a poser and a cliche, and I hope to God he grows the hell out of it.

I hadn't twigged to the fact he was adopted until a poster above reminded me, which may be the reason why he calls LiberalDad by his first name.

Edited by UncleJemima, Mar 3, 2005 @ 11:44 AM.

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#2333

tobey

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 11:48 AM

If you don't like America; we have Canada to the North


Hey, we have enough crazy people here, don't export yours! ;)
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#2334

Loqi

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 11:52 AM

It broke my heart to see how happy the conservative kids were when they found out their dad would be home more often. I don't know if it was a financial need that kept him at work for 12 hours or if he just loved his job but damn, that's a lot of work. When I was a kid my parents worked way too much and I wish more parents would realize that kids will usually choose to give up a lot of their toys and family trips if it means that mom or dad gets to stay home more often.


Word. That really disturbed me - especially when ArmyMom said something like "ArmyDad works himself to death and I love him for it". I understand the sentiment, but I would never want my husband to "work himself to death". If we have to live in a smaller house with one used car and fewer toys, so be it, but no one should be but in the position of working 12 hours away from home. It's not industrious, it's not manly, it's downright harmful to the working individual and his family.
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#2335

BrightEye

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 12:12 PM

I never watched this show before, but I know a guy who knows a guy .. who's going to be on the next episode (the atheist couple).

What struck me was how AirForceMom said she believed the woman was under the man because of Eve and all that, but she totally didn't live that way. It seemed to me that she completely ran the ConservativeHouse. She was far more outspoken than her husband. I know some couples like this, where the wife is the dominant one, but would claim til the cows come home that the man is in charge of the family.

ITA that Dan was terribly disrespectful, and I hope someday he looks back on this and sees what a jerk he was. I'm not big on Christianity either, but I felt really bad when he made AirForceMom cry. I disliked the implication that liberals don't mind dirt and clutter if it contributes to "freeing your mind" or whatever. I'm very liberal, but I like my home to be clean.
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#2336

kiki38

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 12:33 PM

The problem I have with Dan and his ilk...they claim how bad this country sucks, but yet what other country could they proclaim it so loudly and not be arrested or worse for?

Now, I am more liberal than anything else, and I will say that Dan did make some good arguments...but you go about changing people's minds by making yourself seem more like them,..not overemphasizing the differences between you.

I think where the liberal folks faulted in Dan's 'free thinking mind,' was summed up by libdad (We forgot to teach Dan how to be respectful), which, I can kind of see. I mean, one of the things I was specifically taught was to at least respect other's opinions, but I think some people automaticallly assume that with an open mind comes respect. That's not necessarily the case. I think they were so busy teaching Dan to question authority they didn't differentiate respecting authority.

And I absolutely LOVE the conservative kids! 'That's not any fun!' Cracked my shit UP!'
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#2337

ChocolateCherry

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 12:34 PM

Earlier in the program, didn't the voiceover mention that Dan was adopted when he was 4 or 5? I wonder if anything traumatic happened which could account for all his angst.

Nowhere near as disturbing as Dan always addressing his father by his name and never as dad, pops, father, old man

I heard the adopted at 4 voiceover too, which is probably why he doesn't call Greg, Dad.
Well we didn't get any Flummerfelt/Bray manuals (jerkwads), but the Patrick/Leierwood manuals are up already.
Did they say that the Liberal Leierwoods were Quakers and that Greg is a Nurse Practitioner? Here's Dan's story

Our home is egalitarian. Our name, Leierwood, is a combination of Greg's surname, Leier, and my surname, Wood. The kids call us whatever they like. In fact, Dan calls us Mina and Greg instead of Mom and Dad. Dan is adopted and joined our family when he was 4 years old. I was pregnant with Avram when Dan's mother-a very close friend of mine--was dying of leukemia.She asked us to take Dan since his biological father wasn't involved. We shared the same values and beliefs as Dan's birth mother and have him raised him accordingly.

That has to be traumatic on so many levels.

Edited by ChocolateCherry, Mar 3, 2005 @ 12:43 PM.

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#2338

DrCher

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 12:50 PM

From Cheri's manual:

I use a belt to spank them and they must stand still while being spanked.

Poor little kids.

And from Mina's manual, it sounds like the other son, Avram, is a good egg and the complete opposite of Dan.
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#2339

JadziaDax

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 12:50 PM

When the Conservative Family's neighbors were gong on about how they must support their president, I had to wonder if they had felt the same way during the Clinton years.
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#2340

BlackOrchid

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Posted Mar 3, 2005 @ 1:32 PM

Lots of great posts on this!

I have to say I really think Dan was playing to the cameras A LOT (and I loved the "angry young man washing dishes" thing too!). The only thing that really bothered me about his outbursts specifically was when he was so disrespectful in challenging the ConservativeMom's religion, and made her cry.

I became an atheist in high school - a very conservative Catholic high school! - where needless to say it wasn't very popular. As a teen, I may have liked to "be shocking" but I would never, ever have talked to a non-atheist that way. I don't really get the behavior of many atheists/agnostics. So confrontational. If you've decided you don't believe, you should really be less nuts about it. It's almost like a "new religion" - anti-religion. Whereas I just don't believe and don't worry about it much. I don't care if I see kids praying at school or trip over a statue of the ten commandments or whatever - I even went to mass (we had to in school) plenty of times while I was an atheist. What's the big deal?

Anyway, maybe there's still hope for Dan, he's young. Dan, you don't HAVE to be an asshole. Really. Just tone it down and treat others (especially elders and guests in your home) with respect.
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