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The Waltons: Good Night John Boy!


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#1441

Calleigh2000

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Posted Aug 5, 2009 @ 3:03 AM

And they probably would really have had a problem with Jason playing the piano in the bar. I don't think Olivia ever was too happy about it.
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#1442

SnarkySheep

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Posted Aug 25, 2009 @ 12:42 PM

Finally had the chance to watch the infamous "Curt lives after all" episode that is so hated by so many...and I can see why!

There were just SO many things wrong with this episode, I'm not sure I can list them all, but hey, I'll try: 1) Casting a Curt 2.0 instead of the original guy, so nobody really cared about him, because he WAS literally a stranger to us; 2) Giving him a new girlfriend, so that his flimsy excuses for not returning to Mary Ellen seemed even flimsier; 3) Mary Ellen's lukewarm reaction to news of Curt's possibly being still alive, and then once she was actually with him and being rejected. Not only was she just kind of "oh well" about it (most likely because she had a new man in her life; I wonder how she would've reacted if she DIDN'T have anyone) but the scene at the bus in the end pretty much seemed like she was all but pushing Curt and Betty together! WTF?? What kind of person, upon learning of her long-thought-dead husband's actually living, tells him and The Other Woman they should try to mend things and be together?

Then, there's the whole thing with Curt giving ME a fishing rod to give John Curtis from him. Um...this is a little 4-year-old child who's believed all his young life that his father is DEAD. After it turns out this is untrue, but that said father simply doesn't want to see him, he expects the child's mother to give him a gift that would just plain open a can of worms? A child that age will NOT understand any of this, and especially if Curt doesn't plan to come back (ME's weak parting "You know where to find us if you want someday" or what have you seemed pretty much like an empty courtesy statement). Or -- hopefully -- I misunderstood that, and Curt just wanted to give something to his son, without JC being told from whom it came. (Then, that too seems awfully awkward... "Here, little boy! I don't give a crap about actually being part of your life, but here's a fishing rod to make up for it!")

All throughout this, there's the ME/Jonesy "love" which is equally ridiculous. Here we have this young woman who's shown that medicine is her life's passion. Just a few episodes earlier, for heaven's sake, she was fighting tooth and nail, trying to get admitted and to get her family to support her! But along comes this random stranger, telling her to forsake it all so they can go gallivant on a beach in Mexico, or something equally vague, and without a single complaint or question, she's okay with this? Yeah, I know that women to this day often fall in love -- or think they are, anyways -- and drop their entire lives to move cross-country, etc. But nothing we have EVER seen of Mary Ellen's character in the nine years of shows would indicate her being this sort of person. I could see Erin doing it, no problem; even maybe Elizabeth, were she a bit older. But ME, in my book? Just out of character entirely, and thus poor writing. I know they probably just wanted to wrap up everyone's lives before the finale, but...not the way to do it, not at all.
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#1443

oceanblue

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Posted Aug 25, 2009 @ 5:37 PM

I don't remember a finale. Was ME's ending running off to Mexico with Jonesy? When I next remember seeing her she's a doctor living near Walton's Mountain.
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#1444

merylinkid

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Posted Aug 25, 2009 @ 9:00 PM

I can see ME dropping everything. She was engaged to Beau Buchanan when Curt came along. She dumped Beau three days before the wedding and married Curt. They knew each other about a week.

In fact, it was Erin who burned the note from Curt in order to keep the wedding as planned going forward.
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#1445

SnarkySheep

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Posted Aug 28, 2009 @ 1:24 PM

Now on "The Carousel," the ep where Cindy learns she's adopted and sets off to find her birth mother...

All throughout, I was pretty sure they would go the "family-oriented" route, i.e. Cindy's mother being a young married woman whose husband is tragically killed or something, and unable to raise a child in poverty alone, nobly gives up the little girl for a better life. But instead, I was pleasantly surprised, them having the birth mom be unmarried. I'm thinking this is possibly the only outright reference made on this show to a person having sex out of wedlock...
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#1446

slasherboy

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Posted Aug 29, 2009 @ 7:18 PM

Certainly not like Clay-Boy and his lil heifer!
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#1447

kavan30013

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Posted Aug 30, 2009 @ 8:12 PM

I don't remember a finale. Was ME's ending running off to Mexico with Jonesy?


No shortly before they were about to leave, a friend of Curt's showed up to say he was alive and living in Florida. So ME went to Florida in the single worst episode ever of the Waltons. In an hour ME found out Curt had not been killed at Pearl Harbor, had suffered grievous wounds, and was emotionally scarred. She then returns home and reunites with Jonesy who has taken a position teaching geology at Boatwright University. Jonesy is not shown for the rest of the season and is only mentioned once when ME mentions he hasnít called in over a week.

Skip to the reunion movies. Jonesy is living with the Waltons and working as a vet. He and ME married in A Motherís Day on Waltonís Mountain. ME is in a car accident and canít have more kids. She and Jonesy eventually work through it agreeing that they and John Curtis are enough for each other. They are then apparently happily married. During the stupid 90ís reunion movies Jonesy got shipped off to Vietnam which made no sense and he and ME had two kids who we saw onscreen and John Curtis who we never saw. I hate the 90ís reunion movies btw.

ME's ending was like everyone's fate, save Jonn Boy, to never leave the mountain.

I'm thinking this is possibly the only outright reference made on this show to a person having sex out of wedlock...


Actually sex before marriage is discussed a few times on the show. During season one's The Love Story I think its heavily implied Jenny and John Boy have sex at the Walton's original homesite. In season two Sissy Spacek plays a young girl who claims to be married in The Odyssey. When her stories don't match the elders urges John Boy to remain mum. Earlier in the episode Esther, who one would expect to be horrified, is instead horrified at the girl's familys actions saying a young girl needs support. During the season nine episode The Premonition its clearly implied that John Boy spent the night with a French woman. During the same seasonís The Pursuit Jim Bobís one night stand comes to the mountain claiming falsely sheís pregnant. The dialogue makes it clear she and Jim Bob did sleep together. And also in season six and nine there is discussion of GI's expectation that girls will go all the way (I believe that is the expression.) For example in season six in The Volunteer G.W. Erin's boyfriend invites her to camp with the idea they'll have sex. And his friend at camp and his girlfriend are said to be intimate. Later in the episode G.W. is teased and says, "Erin's not that kind of girl." In season nineís The Indiscretion, Elizabeth is considering spending the night with Drew, Erin said she almost slept with Ashley and was glad she didn't. Elizabeth decides not to go all the way with Drew. The show does address the topic but its always coached in the notion good girls don't go all the way before marriage, whereas there are no such warnings about men being wrong to have sex before marriage.

Edited by kavan30013, Aug 30, 2009 @ 8:37 PM.

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#1448

MittenGirl

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Posted Aug 31, 2009 @ 6:22 PM

When Ben and Cindy got married, didn't several people ask, in a round-about fashion, if they had to get married?
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#1449

Tim McD

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Posted Sep 1, 2009 @ 10:50 PM

We recently noticed that before Curt was the crankiest doctor in Jefferson County, he was the pilot for the cutie-pie wingwalker that John-Boy screwed over. Not one of our faves, the episode delves into Landonesque tertiary character territory and wins the award for Most Vacant Expressions by Jim-Bob, which is saying something. I felt bad for Pilot Curt when he tells John-Boy that he and the wingwalker go their separate ways during their time off. "Her choice, not mine." Aw, man, sucks to be you! Don't worry, you'll marry Nurse Big-Face next season.

The narrator closes the show by mentioning that "we never saw nor heard from her ever again." It reminded me of another one where he said essentially that so-and-so "had no effect on our lives and was quickly forgotten." Great, so your little story had no point then, thanks.
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#1450

kavan30013

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Posted Sep 2, 2009 @ 12:28 PM

Morgan Stevens who played Erin's husband Paul was a prominent character in season eight's The Waiting. He played a soldier who would never be able to walk again due to war wounds. The next season he played Paul.

When Ben and Cindy got married, didn't several people ask, in a round-about fashion, if they had to get married?


The morning after they got married, John made Ben call Olivia and tell her. After a short convo Olivia (who was never seen because she'd gotten off the mountain) asked to speak to John. He hurriedly said "Oh I don't think so" and shook his head. Ben instantly said, "No!" John asked how he knew what she asked and Ben said, "I know my mama." Hilarious.

Curt was soo cranky. Watching the episodes during Mary Ellen's pregnancy he was saying she was fat, telling her other things. I'd be scared to go to him. I'd have to go on a Rose diet or train like Mary Ellen and Erin did before the race.

Edited by kavan30013, Sep 2, 2009 @ 12:30 PM.

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#1451

Jen2000

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Posted Sep 2, 2009 @ 6:59 PM

Does anyone else get Retro TV on their cable? It's like TV Land, they show a lot of old drama series.

I spotted RT on an episode of Marcus Welby. He played (what else) a country bumpkin. He had come out to California with his pregnant wife from some rural area and they were living in a trailer park. As an added Waltons bonus, the Flossie Brimmer actress played one of his neighbors!

Just looked the episode up on imdb and it's from 1969.

Edited by Jen2000, Sep 2, 2009 @ 7:03 PM.

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#1452

prairiegirl

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Posted Sep 2, 2009 @ 8:01 PM

Hi, all you Walnuts! I have seasons 1-5 on DVD and I was watching "The Burn Out" last night.I really never get tired of watching that episode, the writing and direction are outstanding, and of course the performances are great. Always makes me remember our family farm and how devastating a fire would have been.
One thing that has always bugged me:why did the writers/TPTB seem to want to keep Elizabeth eternally 7? Her dialogue, and even the dresses she wore in the later years,just seem to belong to the Elizabeth of the first two years. Just a thought.
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#1453

CWestAbe

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Posted Sep 8, 2009 @ 8:18 PM

They did seem to keep Elizabeth for several seasons in very kid girl dresses, but I think that by the 6th or 7th season they did get her into a long dark green dress that had long sleeves and was definitely not a mini length wise.

Elizabeth did mention to Momma that she wanted to look more grown up. Ironically, I thought that long dress looked too grown up, like it was meant for a much older woman.

I was recently watching All Quiet on the Western Front, the 1979 movie version. It was really interesting to see Richard Thomas, with Patricia Neal playing his mother! PN still had the trademark gravelly voice, and RT was trying to comfort her as she's ill, and trying to say things are ok for him and hiding the realities of life at the front. While the character is not quite John Boy, but a couple of moments did stand out for me as John Boy-esque. First when he's talk in a soothing voice to comfort his sick mother, and also a scene where he's writing at his desk at home!
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#1454

Tim McD

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Posted Sep 9, 2009 @ 12:04 AM

...why did the writers/TPTB seem to want to keep Elizabeth eternally 7? Her dialogue, and even the dresses she wore in the later years,just seem to belong to the Elizabeth of the first two years.


That drives me crazy. I'm guessing Elizabeth was about 6 when the show started and she just got dumber and less mature for the next 4 seasons. Everything that came out of her mouth seemed to be some stupid question about something that required only a modicum of common sense to understand, and her behavior was even worse. For example, from season 4:

The Boondoggle: Jim-Bob ingeniously fashions a makeshift hatchery so that he can sell fresh fish to the locals who are eager to buy, thus securing the impovershed Walton family with some much-needed cash. But Elizabeth lets the fish escape because she's convinced that some of the bigger fish were "mommies" who had "adopted" the smaller "baby fish." How a 10-year-old country girl gets the notion that fish adopt each other, much less become disturbed at the idea of people eating fish, is beyond me. Nice going Einstein, way to let your family starve. Jerk.

The Loss: Elizabeth asks if it's possible for an expectant cat to give birth to rabbits. Again, she's 10.
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#1455

SnarkySheep

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Posted Sep 9, 2009 @ 12:54 PM

I think maybe Elizabeth was so firmly entrenched in the baby role of that enormous family, she really didn't know how to act any other way. Even as a teen in the final season, when she's seeing Drew regularly, there's an episode where ME and Erin tease her mercilessly about how she's such a kid, she doesn't even know what to do at the local make-out spot, or something to that effect. Yeah, I suppose they were just joking with her, but IMO it did kinda seem like they meant it. They knew it upset her, and didn't really care.
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#1456

CWestAbe

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Posted Sep 9, 2009 @ 3:14 PM

In The Boondoggle, not only did Elizabeth let the fish go from Jim-Bob's holding pond, but when Jim-Bob complains to John Boy, John Boy excuses the action by saying Elizabeth is going to make a good mother some day. Ugh! Maybe Elizabeth can't see the value of Jim Bob's enterprise and hard work, but I figured John Boy should have been able to. John Boy should have helped Jim Bob repair the fish holding pond and told Elizabeth to stay far, far away. Sometimes, the Waltons seem to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to making a little extra honest money and pulling themselves away from poverty. If they didn't do this, they might have exited the Depression a lot sooner.

In Season 2's The Prize, John Walton says that his son Ben wants to enter the hog business. Yet we never hear anything ever again about this in any succeeding episode, even though Ben's the aspiring tycoon. Imagine, with a hog business, the Waltons could have had pork chops every dinner if they wanted to. Maybe Ben lost his hog business because Elizabeth set loose all the hogs.

In Season 4's The Fox, Ben traps a fox to earn money from the pelt, but Elizabeth can't bear the idea of having the animal killed and bugs Ben until he relents and lets the fox go free.

So you see, Elizabeth keeps killing her brothers' businesses! Blame her for the Waltons being so poor for so long!

Edited by CWestAbe, Sep 10, 2009 @ 1:15 PM.

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#1457

Tim McD

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Posted Sep 9, 2009 @ 11:31 PM

In The Wingwalker, Grandma asks Elizabeth to swat some flies. Naturally, Elizabeth sees the filthy insects as pets or something, or maybe they're mommy flies who adopted baby bunnies and fish, I don't know, so she balks at killing them. Unfortunately Grandpa chooses to enable her behavior, pointing out, "Now that's a Walton fly there, we can leave him be. There's another Walton fly there," and so on and OH CHRIST ALMIGHTY JUST SWAT THE G*DDAM FLIES ELIZABETH. In the "goodnight John-Boy" scene at the end she muses as to whether or not the fireflies outside are torch-wielding vigilante friends of the swatted flies come to get her. How is this girl not in an institution?

Maybe Ben lost his hog business because Elizabeth set loose all the hogs.


Hah! I'm sure she was disappointed she couldn't figure out a way to "free" the mommy trees on Waltons Mountain so her daddy wouldn't cut them up, which would be so mean.
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#1458

CWestAbe

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Posted Sep 10, 2009 @ 1:08 PM

In Season 1's The Calf, Elizabeth and Jim Bob steal the calf that Daddy Walton has just sold to another man, and go hide out on the mountain. Of course, the Waltons really needed the money from selling the calf in order to buy a new truck axle.

In Season 4's The Burnout, Momma Walton discusses with Daddy Walton while in bed in their burned out shell of a house that she "wonders why they struggle so" after all these years.

Duh! Elizabeth tries to kill all the Walton's money making opportunities!

In Season 7's The Attack, John Walton says that they can't afford to keep feeding the mule, Blue, as it hasn't been doing any work. He orders Jim Bob and Elizabeth to sell the mule and split the proceeds. Jim Bob wants to make the sign right away that advertises that the mule is for sale. But of course, Elizabeth objects! She says that Blue is a part of the family and when a buyer does show up, Elizabeth blurts out excuses for why Blue would be a terrible purchase, in a blatant attempt to have the buyer not buy Blue. She says "Jim Bob, you're heartless. You would sell me if you could." Elizabeth, don't tempt Jim Bob that way.

Elizabeth, destroyer of her brothers' businesses and keeper of animals that the Waltons can't afford to feed.

Edited by CWestAbe, Sep 10, 2009 @ 7:45 PM.

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#1459

prairiegirl

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Posted Sep 10, 2009 @ 5:14 PM

You guys are KILLING me with the "Elizabeth Conspiricy Theories"
What's even funnier is that the "adult" Elizabeth was in the Peace Corps in the TV movies that I don't acknowledge.
"No, we can't kill those fish to feel all those starving Ethopians.The fish might be Mommies!"

Edited by prairiegirl, Sep 10, 2009 @ 5:15 PM.

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#1460

Jen2000

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Posted Sep 10, 2009 @ 7:31 PM

Elizabeth was a total wet blanket. Remember when the family was trying to listen to their favorite comedy show and she kept causing the radio to static up and then hurled the vase off the mantelpiece? Then she just blamed it on her poltergeist.

Edited by Jen2000, Sep 10, 2009 @ 7:33 PM.

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#1461

CWestAbe

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Posted Sep 10, 2009 @ 7:58 PM

Yeah, I try to forgot Season 7's The Changeling, where a vase leaps to its death and lights flicker and go out and furniture floats, and we find out it's ALL ABOUT ELIZABETH and her fears.

In Season 7's The Captive, Elizabeth gets Jim Bob to teach her how to drive. Mind you, she's only 13 years old and she's so bad at driving that Jim Bob calls her a menace. Sure, if you think that rabbits are born out of cats then maybe you're not quite ready to drive yet. She gets Jason to teach her how to drive, but this time she's so bad at driving that she drives into the pond.

Elizabeth, savior to flies and would be destroyer of family cars.

Edited by CWestAbe, Sep 10, 2009 @ 7:59 PM.

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#1462

Tim McD

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Posted Sep 10, 2009 @ 10:09 PM

Well we were warned about her. In the very first episode she locked herself in a trunk.
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#1463

CWestAbe

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Posted Sep 10, 2009 @ 11:20 PM

It seems from the very first episode they were hinting that Elizabeth's not exactly brainiac.

What other instances of Elizabethan stupidity can we recall?
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#1464

oceanblue

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Posted Sep 11, 2009 @ 7:08 AM

In the last movie, which took place in 1968, Elizabeth had recently finished college and joined the Peace Corps but was finally ready to settle down and marry Drew. If she was 6 in 1933, she'd have been about 40 when she graduated college.
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#1465

merylinkid

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Posted Sep 11, 2009 @ 11:47 AM

That bugged the heck out of me. John Boy who was a college graduate in World War II was just getting engaged when Kennedy was shot????? Say what? And Erin who married at the end of World War II, had toddlers (also instead of being a businesswoman with her skills was a teacher). Thankfully, we did not see John Curtis, who would have been shown as just getting his driver's license probably.
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#1466

Sarcastico

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Posted Sep 11, 2009 @ 12:50 PM

Sure, if you think that rabbits are born out of cats then maybe you're not quite ready to drive yet.


In The Homecoming, didn't she say that when she grew up she was going to have kittens, not babies?
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#1467

Tim McD

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Posted Sep 11, 2009 @ 1:44 PM

John Boy who was a college graduate in World War II was just getting engaged when Kennedy was shot?????


I want to know how he made the transition from novelist to TV anchorman. That's quite the, uh, career trajectory.
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#1468

oceanblue

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Posted Sep 11, 2009 @ 5:06 PM

Well Tim McD, he was the former editor of The Blue Ridge Chronicle, so John Boy did have a nose for news.

I liked the way they didn't even try with Jim Bob. They just made him "Sad, Middle-Aged Man".

Does anyone remember how Ben and Cindi's children died?
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#1469

kavan30013

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Posted Sep 11, 2009 @ 8:22 PM

I want to know how he made the transition from novelist to TV anchorman. That's quite the, uh, career trajectory.


I think John Boy wrote novels, but also plied his trade as a journalist. During WWII he worked for the Stars and Stripes newspaper. And his book on WWII was also nonfiction. My impression is he intermingled the two pursuits. The problem I had was I don't buy John Boy being news oriented enough to be an anchor which he was presented as being in the reunions. That said the later reunions were such huge John Boy suck up's its ridiculous. Every single one was John Boy focused. Poor Erin's kids never get shown, Mary Ellen gets another husband sent off to war, Jason became a total corn pone, they didn't even put Cindy in one. But John Boy and his wife were the focus of every one. It's why I hate those reunions. Well that and everyone should be decades older and instead they are either getting married or have kids way too young.

oceanblue I don't think they said how Virginia died only that she became sick. Apparently Charlie was never born or his parents never, ever mentioned him. Maybe they didn't like him very much or maybe one day he woke up and got off the mountain.
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#1470

CWestAbe

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Posted Sep 12, 2009 @ 12:49 AM

John Boy needed the cash so I think he turned from newspaper writing to broadcast journalism and took a job as an anchorman in the postwar period's emerging new medium of tv. This is just my hunch, but it would parallel Earl Hamner's own journey from writing for radio shows to writing for television. Sure, writing novels and stories seems to be John Boy's first choice, but such writing can be unsteady income. And John Boy was a journalism major in university.

From what we've seen of John Boy, he keeps running low or out of cash in New York:

In Season 5's The Achievement, John Boy finds his former dance marathon partner Daisy Garner working at a dance hall that charges men 10 cents a dance to dance with a dancing girl. He tells Daisy that he would want to keep dancing with her, but that he doesn't have enough money to keep buying all her dancing tickets.

In Season 9's The Revel, John Boy runs out of cash when his new novel gets rejected. He even ends up homeless and sleeping on some outside bench in New York.

In The Homecoming, didn't she say that when she grew up she was going to have kittens, not babies?


When you mentioned that, it sounded kinda familiar so I went to check The Homecoming. Elizabeth says she's gonna have puppies instead of babies, that she's never going to grow up, and when she gets bigger she'll just squish herself back smaller. The older kids of course laugh at her when she says she's gonna have puppies rather than give birth to babies, and Jim Bob tries in vain to tell her that "it's just not the way it is." But Elizabeth says "Why?"

So at age 6, Elizabeth thinks puppies are born of a woman and at age 10 she thinks that rabbits can be born of a cat.

But Jim Bob at age 8 already knows enough of the way the world works to know that Elizabeth can't give birth to puppies.

How much smarter is Jim Bob than Elizabeth anyway? We know that Jim Bob built his own car and plane, graduated as valedictorian, built a shortwave radio, assembled a tv set, created high proof alcohol in a still with Yancy that could be substituted for rationed gasoline, is mechanically adept and fixed Ike's motorcycle.

Edited by CWestAbe, Sep 12, 2009 @ 2:12 PM.

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