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#151

BodhiChicka

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 2:34 AM

Heh...my reply may not be all that popular, but I'm afraid that I'm somewhat in the "In Defense of Big" camp WRT Big and Carrie (and I need to say up front that I am one of the people who was really really happy that they wound up together). I've been watching all of my DVDs (exams are coming, and what better way to procrastinate?) and it's struck me that in a lot of cases that people cite as "Bad Big Behaviour" (i.e. freaking out about the appartment key), Carrie was somewhat unreasonable in what she was demanding of Big - she does tend to get very wrapped up in her own head-dramas, and then explode, leaving the guy (often Big) to go "Wha?....okay...." Big certainly did some VERY uncool things to Carrie, but they both messed with each others' heads from time to time.

My overarching explanation for Big's behaviour - he's a very powerful man. And he likes being in control of every aspect of his life. And Carrie is the person who most threatens that control - she seems to be closer in age to him than the other women he dates, and she's intelligent and funny - she has a real personality (whether one likes her personality or not is another matter ;) - Big really likes her a lot. So, when it seems like Carrie is making some headway into his life and feelings, Big needs to retreat. (For example, when he up and marries Natasha - she is bland bland BLAND! Not the brightest bulb either, and probably not much of a challenge.) Until he finally realizes at the end of the series that he wants to be with her, and is willing to put himself out on a limb. Does this make Big an evil toxic bachelor? Not IMO - just a guy with issues.

Oh, and about the Miranda thing - Carrie did have an important meeting with her editor that morning, and she agonizes about how it's too late to call and cancel until Aiden offers to go and check on Miranda.

And the Big engagement thing - he tells Carrie that he and Natasha are engaged when they have their post-Hamptons encounter lunch, and Carrie gets an invite to the party at the Plaza. She doesn't go though - instead she and Char and Miranda regale Sam with a rendition of "The Way We Were." And then she walks to the Plaza just in time for a wee cryptic exchange with Big.
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#152

stoneyburke

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 8:20 AM

I find it fascinating that the finale had this much effect on everyone who was a fan of this show. I did not see it from the beginning...it will be rerun in its entirety someday, or are they expecting people to buy the DVDs, which I won't?...I only came in when Carrie was with Aidan. Still, and there have been some good points made on this, I thought the show was progressive about the empowerment of women and took it to heart. Now, maybe I was transferring how I feel to the show, and perhaps it wasn't all that progressive or worthy of my admiration.

Still, I found it a good show, until the last season. I did NOT like the relationship between Carrie and Alek at ALL, and again I'm not sure why. I just.did.not.buy.it. There didn't seem to be any intellectual partnership there, nor any chemistry, nor any affection, nor any respect for each other. I guess that's why!

At any rate, yes Carrie and Big DID have all of the above, only they were two children playing at a grownup relationship and I think they were and would be doomed. Oh, sure, they can get hitched but I think their complete and utter selfishness will mean divorce. Or, again, maybe I'm wrong. ARE there women out there who think only of themselves and spend endlessly on themselves and don't bother to learn how to cook...oh, how cute that Carrie is an idiot in the kitchen...and who look to a man to take complete care of them? DO these women FIND men to adore them, simply because they're good in bed? Wow, good for them.

At ANY rate, what I came here to say, before I got off on a tangent was that, after seeing 'Frasier' last night, what I also don't buy is Big being given the characterization of someone who just HAS to settle for Carrie. WHY exactly can't a rich, handsome, personal, albeit childish man find a woman? WHY? Why WOULDN'T Frasier be able to find a woman on his own? Why am I being asked to accept this premise in order for Big and Carrie to live happily ever after, or at least ever after?

Why? I find this an insult to my intelligence.
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#153

wdejesus79

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 9:36 AM

Carrie did have an important meeting with her editor that morning, and she agonizes about how it's too late to call and cancel until Aiden offers to go and check on Miranda.


Okay, I can accept that. But why didn't she call Charlotte or Samantha to help Miranda?

But, I also have to add that although I find her behavior to her friends appalling once in a blue (Samantha and the blow job incident, Mir and the bath incident, Char and the money incident), I do find her to be a good friend overall. And perhaps that's how it is in real life. I know I can't say I'm the best friend ever. [But I wouldn't have done those things Carrie did above ;)]
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#154

dimples1

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 10:28 AM

Thanks to queequeg925 and wdejesus79 for explaining how Carrie found out about Big and Natasha's engagement.

It doesn't change the fact that Big really didn't consider Carrie for marriage. I swear I remember hearing Big say this to Carrie, "that he wasn't the marrying kind" in one of the episodes. Didn't he say that to her at one point?

C'mon, if he DID say that to Carrie and then, turns around and gets engaged to Natasha, that should have been a HUGE freaking sign to Carrie.
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#155

wdejesus79

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 10:35 AM

I swear I remember hearing Big say this to Carrie, "that he wasn't the marrying kind" in one of the episodes. Didn't he say that to her at one point?


Yeah, basically he told her this. That he had been married once before, and he didn't plan on doing that again.

That's what killed Carrie when they had their lunch at the end of Season 2. She asks him about the girlfriend, and he says that they're engaged, and she blows up. Which I totally agreed with.
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#156

goodforthesoul

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 11:34 AM

One high point of the finale for me was Carrie getting slapped (albeit accidentally). After the shock of seeing the slap the first time wore off, I replayed it and was doing a victory dance, chanting, "Go, Misha!" It's not that I condone real-life violence, but there've been so many times during the series that viewers wanted to smack Carrie when she was at her most whiny and annoying.


Ahhh, Bookwoman, you're right, this is where the intelligent SATC viewers are! ;) You know I agree with you 100%. Carrie is the only one out of the 4 main characters on the show who showed absolutely no personal growth throughout all 6 seasons. She started out self-absorbed, relationship-sabotaging overspender and ended that same way. Even if the writers hadn't demonized Alek, I don't think Carrie would have remained with him. He expected her to be an adult, something which she has proven to be incapable of, and frankly I think at some point he would have sent her packing and put her on a plane back to NYC himself. In fact, I wish the finale would have shown Alek sending Big a thank you note. ;)
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#157

clainnyc

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 12:14 PM

BodhiChicka, I'm with you in defense of Big. Although, I did get very upset when he refused to give her a key (I feel like they'd been together long enough for her to ask him for it or better yet, for him to offer it) and even more so in "Evolution" when he brought the things she left at his place back to her (although I admit I'd have to be pretty much engaged to a man to leave tampons in his medicine cabinet). I frequently got frustrated with Carrie and the way she expressed her feelings to Big. It left a lot to be desired. In "The Drought," for example, she worries about the fact she and Big have gone a few times without having sex. She talks about it with everyone but Big. Then, she goes over while he's watching his pay-per-view fight, determined to have sex. She jumps on him, and then storms out when he wants to finish watching. Later, she tells him she acted that way because she was having a meltdown but she doesn't say anything else. They never talk about why she freaked out. So, I understand why sometimes the guy could do nothing else but sit there and scratch his head.

I think Big deserves credit for the fact that he never really walked away from her. Yes, he continually fights to keep his own space and his life the way he wants it and he hates goodbyes and checks out of the hospital without telling her. But, I really don't think the latter offense was that big a deal: Before Big went into the hospital, like the day they went out to dinner, he was staying at a hotel (presumably the Four Seasons), he goes to the hospital (which he tells her about), she bursts into tears repeatedly and so instead of telling her he's checking out, he quietly goes back to the hotel. Is this ultimately insensitive to her because she's going to worry of course because she loves the dope and is going to track him down? Yes. But, deep down Big knows it won't be hard for her to find him. He hasn't disappeared. As always, he's just a phone call away.

I do think that by the beginning of the fourth season, Carrie has been clear with Big about what she wants and what she needs. She wants to be a factor in his life; she wants to be let in and have the commitment from him. And, so long as that can't happen with him, they have to remain friends (with the occasional sexual interlude).

In the fourth season, we saw Big struggle with his need for her and we saw that he really did care. And I do think that the SF episode showed that he'd begun to really reflect on what he'd done and how he'd hurt Carrie. That process led him to call Carrie, to her doorstep, and to Paris. As happy as I was with the ending, I too am skeptical about how this revelation/transformation will manifest itself. If Big gets rid of the traits that make him Big, who's left? Aidan? Nahhhhhhhhh......

In my dreams, Big is still Big but he gives her a key and tells her when he thinks he may have to go across an ocean and gives her space for her blow dryer and lets her be herself......with him, with her friends, with the rest of New York. As some people have pointed out, maybe it is an urban legend....the commitment phobe who finally comes round. But, gosh darn it, I love it!
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#158

BondGirl74

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 12:55 PM

I am in the middle of watching the fourth season. I know there are a lot of "Aidan-shippers" out there, but I am proud to say that I am not one of them. He's a "good ole boy" with absolutely NO sense of style (I LOVE Samantha's comment to Carrie re: granola), and a lot of people defend those things with "well he is soooo good to her". Is he really? I find him to be irritating at times, selfish at times, whiny most of the time, fishing for compliments a lot of the time...god, he just gets under my skin. There is a scene where he is in his underwear and goes running after Pete, and I just want to throw up after seeing that visual.
But enough about how much I don't like Aidan.
Throughout the entire fourth season, we see Carrie's friendship with Big evolve into a genuine friendship. Something that just occurred to me about this...everyone always comments on how Carrie always makes things "all about her" even when her girlfriends are going through crises...she never does this with Big. She is always there for him. Just an observation. Anyway...one thing I didn't like about this season was the episode where she was in the country with Aidan and she tells him she had a meeting with her editor, when in fact she was having dinner with Big.
But, through it all, Big has realized by the BEGINNING of the fourth season that he really does love Carrie. And they have each always known that no matter what happens, no matter how much time has passed, they are only a phone call away from one another. That is something that I found particularly endearing about their friendship.
Okay, rant over. :)
P.S. clainnyc, I like that commitment phobe coming around idea too. LOL
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#159

BodhiChicka

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 1:01 PM

Thanks, clainnyc! :) I'm a hopeless romantic about things, so I like to believe that Big and Carrie will live happily ever after - but I do have reasons too. I think that Big and Carrie have personalities that would keep the other person guessing, even in a committed relationship (especially Big) - I don't see either one drying up and being boring. And Carrie is actually in a pretty good place to keep a committed relationship interesting because she has her friends - the three "loves of her life" - she wouldn't rely on Big for every little emotional need (if anything, Big is in a less secure place because, as he says, he has "interested parties" and not friends). I also think that Big seemed kind of wistful in I Heart NY - when he was talking about how his parents would dance together before they went out - maybe he's finally mature enough to want that.

Returning to my earlier Rhett/Scarlett analogy, Rhett tells Scarlett repeatedly that he "isn't the marrying kind" (and even tries to get her to be his mistress rather than marry her) but eventually he's so nuts for her that he's ready to give it a go.
I was actually reminded of my analogy when I was watching the episode where Carrie is trying to get money for her appartment and she goes to see Big - so like the curtain dress scene in GWTW - Big even comments on how nice she's looking, just like Rhett does with Scarlett.

Hee...I totally sense an essay here...
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#160

Maybelline

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 1:21 PM

E.g. all four women apparently had vaginal orgasms which seems pretty unlikely and is completely unrealistic.


I respectfully disagree. During the episode where Miranda's Mom died, Samantha confides to Carrie and Charlotte that she always has an orgasm, and they are both incredulous. "Even when you're on the bottom?" This would imply that Carrie and Charlotte require, ahem, clitoral stimulation to have an orgasm. Miranda's use of sex toys, including vibrators, was mentioned in several episodes. And when Charlotte was at her most desperate with Trey, feeling very lonely and sexually frustrated, she tried masturbating in front of him to get him in the mood. Charlotte also wanted to marry Mr. Pussy because of his oral sex skills! Carrie, always the observer, never confided many specifics about her bedroom activities.
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#161

BondGirl74

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 3:00 PM

Returning to my earlier Rhett/Scarlett analogy, Rhett tells Scarlett repeatedly that he "isn't the marrying kind" (and even tries to get her to be his mistress rather than marry her) but eventually he's so nuts for her that he's ready to give it a go.


I have never seen "GWTW", but this comment reminded me of something else. Does anyone remember the scene in "Just Say Yes"...where Carrie is trying to get a taxi and Big offers her a ride, and she tells him that she thinks Aidan wants to marry her? He is almost in disbelief, and then HE tells HER that Aidan is not the guy for her, and that SHE isn't the marrying kind. Kind of like the tables were turned, eh? (or maybe some foreshadowing that he was telling her that maybe HE was the guy for her?)
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#162

gal

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 3:11 PM

I respectfully disagree. During the episode where Miranda's Mom died, Samantha confides to Carrie and Charlotte that she always has an orgasm, and they are both incredulous. "Even when you're on the bottom?" This would imply that Carrie and Charlotte require, ahem, clitoral stimulation to have an orgasm. Miranda's use of sex toys, including vibrators, was mentioned in several episodes. And when Charlotte was at her most desperate with Trey, feeling very lonely and sexually frustrated, she tried masturbating in front of him to get him in the mood. Charlotte also wanted to marry Mr. Pussy because of his oral sex skills! Carrie, always the observer, never confided many specifics about her bedroom activities.


I always took the 'even on the bottom' comment as being more about positioning during sex as being important for a vaginal orgasm rather than anything to do with clitoral stimulation. There are so many scenes with Carrie/Miranda/Charlotte orgasming during penetrative sex that I can't really accept the idea that they weren't. Certainly Miranda's scene 'coaching' the guy to give her an orgasm involved lots of different positions but no clitoral stimulation that I noticed. Yes, Charlotte did try masturbating in front of Trey but she never asked him to do anything for her other than penetrative sex - that was my point. They all enjoyed oral sex at least but there was always a strong element (or so it seemed to me) of it's not being a proper orgasm without penetration.

Although, I did get very upset when he refused to give her a key (I feel like they'd been together long enough for her to ask him for it or better yet, for him to offer it) and even more so in "Evolution" when he brought the things she left at his place back to her (although I admit I'd have to be pretty much engaged to a man to leave tampons in his medicine cabinet). I frequently got frustrated with Carrie and the way she expressed her feelings to Big. It left a lot to be desired.


To add to what you said - what really annoyed me was how Carrie continually made everything a big deal. Especially when she bills going out to dinner with her friends as being a 'huge favour' to ask. It's just not a huge favour to go out with your SO's friends, it's something that you just do. Ditto things like leaving stuff at his place/having a key. She makes them sound like such massive favours that she comes across as an emotional beggar sitting at his feet for scraps of intimacy. It's no wonder really that he treated her like shit. And when she actually lets fly at him for things, she does it at appallingly bad moments so that he can (justifiably) dismiss her as a neurotic, melodramatic freak rather than having genuine and reasonable concerns. I'm particularly thinking of her calling him in Paris in the middle of the night and talking rubbish at him drunk - she made it so easy for him to see her as crazy. Also the asking him to 'stand still with her' at 2am in a random park... If she'd only had the guts to expect her due as a girlfriend and do so in a reasonable way, he'd have married her. I'm willing to bet that's what happened with Natasha - she expected to be treated well and therefore was.

Edited by gal, Mar 31, 2004 @ 3:24 PM.

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#163

stoneyburke

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 3:19 PM

Re Aidan....does anyone remember him from 'Northern Exposure'? I found him equally icky then too.

Um, which guy was Mr. Pussy?
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#164

BondGirl74

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 3:32 PM

stoneyburke--
"Mr Pussy"--his character's real name was "Mitch Saylor". He was the one that came with references--the girl in the ladies room who came so hard that she passed out, and then goes "enjoy!" (Charlotte was always quick to call him "Mitchell"). I always loved how Charlotte thought that she could turn ANYONE into husband material...although, this could possibly be due to my inclination to do the same thing...LOL Remember, the scene where he molested the fig at brunch? Gross.
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#165

emmanya

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 3:36 PM

1.03 - Bay of Married Pigs

1. I read people saying the moment they fell in love with the show was when Carrie asks if Big had ever been in love and he was all "Abso-fucking-lutely" and she is all freezeframed...And Carrie was telling her married friends that story I gathered...But...I didn't find it that great a moment. Just my two cent.

2. Would any man really be that "okay" to have his dick out infront of a guest. It must have been real big. I loved how he was all "why thankyou very much" when its large size was mentioned.

3. That guy was perfect for Charlotte and I can not believe they blew that storyline with an utterly stupid "he likes different china to me" cop out. That almost destroyed my love for Charlotte.

4. Miranda kissing her fake lesbian life partner gal was pretty funny. I would have killed that guy though with his "I've never seen you with a guy in eight months - so you must be gay!"

5. Was Skipper in this episode? I think I may have blocked him out if he was.

6. Samantha drunk. Hee. I love her already.

7. Okay. I love Samantha and Charlotte and Miranda is growing on me. But Carrie? Eeek, I don't know why I'm not feeling the love for her...it may have something to do with the condesndingly annoying voiceovers and crap puns she puts in her colomn. I am referring to the next episode to be honest - "Are twenty-somethings the new designer drugs?" Gawd. I can imagine her thinking "I'm on fi-yu-rr" when she typed that.

8. The irish dude Samantha boned was creepily ugly. I loved Charlotte's "You'll be gone when I come back" response. Arg. Damn that china.

9. Yay for friendship. THe movie ending was cute.
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#166

clainnyc

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 4:42 PM

And when she actually lets fly at him for things, she does it at appallingly bad moments so that he can (justifiably) dismiss her as a neurotic, melodramatic freak rather than having genuine and reasonable concerns. I'm particularly thinking of her calling him in Paris in the middle of the night and talking rubbish at him drunk - she made it so easy for him to see her as crazy.


gal, Yes! Absolutely. I felt like saying, "Carrie, no more of the drunk dialing!! Girl, don't do it!!" (heaven knows that's gotten me into trouble once or twice...)

BodhiChicka, the moment in "I Heart NY" when Big talks about his parents is one of my favorite! It's soulful and wonderful.

As far as the issue of the still unused plane ticket that Big gave Carrie, I'm happy with the idea/fantasy that after he puts the house up for sale in Napa (and before he moves back to NYC), Carrie goes to visit him. She'll get to check out the Big house, hottub, porch, etc, she heard all about just before he gives it all up to be with her. Yes, that would make me happy. : )
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#167

BookWoman56

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 5:28 PM

I've never thought that Big was entirely to blame in the relationship with Carrie. She sometimes pushed for too much too fast and did things that would have annoyed almost anyone. Remember when she stalked Big at church because she wanted to see his mother? It's more the sum total of the things he did that made me think of him as smarmy. With his first wife, they had an open enough marriage for them to have a 3-way, but then he went behind her back and had an affair with her best friend. With the 2nd wife, he had an affair with Carrie, even bringing her into the marital bed for a tryst. To me, infidelity in both previous marriages is a good indicator that Big is just not willing to stay in a monogamous relationship, no matter how much he loves the current wife.

Carrie was also to blame for the affair. At the point that she and Big first ended up in bed at the start of the affair, why couldn't she simply have told Big that the affair couldn't continue? If at that point, Carrie had told him she wouldn't see him again unless he was divorced and ready for a committed relationship with her, I would have had much more sympathy for her. Instead, she continued with the affair, complained to her friends about feeling guilty about it, but the affair didn't end until Natasha caught Carrie in Natasha and Big's house. At that point, Carrie and Big both became characters that I just couldn't like, and nothing they did after that point ever made me really like either of them again.
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#168

wdejesus79

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 5:33 PM

Remember when [Carrie] stalked Big at church because she wanted to see his mother?


I was so pissed off when she did this. He tells her that taking his mother to church is a private thing, but nooo, she just has to meet the mother! Why can't she be more like Miranda in that regard, who didn't meet Steve's Maaa till after Brady was born?

When that book fell in the church and everyone turned to look up, I wanted to slap that stupid smile off Carrie's face. The least she could've done was look a little embarrassed.

Shit, I know I felt embarrassed for her in that scene.
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#169

Saffron

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 5:58 PM

If she'd only had the guts to expect her due as a girlfriend and do so in a reasonable way, he'd have married her. I'm willing to bet that's what happened with Natasha - she expected to be treated well and therefore was.

Remember when Carrie kept trying to get Big on a real "first date" and he kept doing things to sabotage it--like inviting her to a "drink thing" and bringing along his friend Jack? She handled that really well. She gracefully exited the Jack thing. And then when she saw them later at a sidewalk cafe, she coolly ignored Big's offer to join them. He chased after her and she told him flat out that she didn't want to deal with "people puzzles". It was only then that he agreed to a real dinner, just the two of them. I don't know whether that was playing hard to get or just not being a doormat, but it sure did get him to stop jerking her around, albeit temporarily.

But often, it seemed like both of them were wrong. Like Carrie going to church was pathetic, but then again, she was right to think it a bad sign that the man she'd been dating seriously for months and who she assumed loved her, hadn't even mentioned her to his mother who he saw on a weekly basis.
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#170

wdejesus79

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 6:34 PM

Like Carrie going to church was pathetic, but then again, she was right to think it a bad sign that the man she'd been dating seriously for months and who she assumed loved her, hadn't even mentioned her to his mother who he saw on a weekly basis.


Carrie's patheticness in now way makes it okay for Big to have acted like an asshat after mass. He didn't want to introduce another girlfriend? And he'll introduce her when he's sure? Ouch.

I think Carrie should've spoken to him before just showing up. And maybe that's where I think Carrie and Big's biggest problem was. I think they had a lack of communication.
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#171

BodhiChicka

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 9:32 PM

Carrie was also to blame for the affair. At the point that she and Big first ended up in bed at the start of the affair, why couldn't she simply have told Big that the affair couldn't continue? If at that point, Carrie had told him she wouldn't see him again unless he was divorced and ready for a committed relationship with her, I would have had much more sympathy for her. Instead, she continued with the affair, complained to her friends about feeling guilty about it, but the affair didn't end until Natasha caught Carrie in Natasha and Big's house.


And the last "affair episode" was actually one of my "Jeebus, Carrie, get a clue!" episodes. Even prior to that one, Big was offering to break things off with Natasha, but he said that he wanted to be certain that he and Carrie would be in it together. And Carrie was the one who didn't make that commitment (maybe because of Aidan, but the fact that she wanted to be with Big that badly should have been a wee hint that Aidan was not the right man for her).
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#172

BondGirl74

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 9:40 PM

If she'd only had the guts to expect her due as a girlfriend and do so in a reasonable way, he'd have married her. I'm willing to bet that's what happened with Natasha - she expected to be treated well and therefore was.


Okay I can't believe that I am saying this, since I am a Big/Carrie supporter...but did anyone else happen to catch the irony in the last part of that statement? Unless you consider being cheated on, being "treated well"....
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#173

queequeg925

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Posted Mar 31, 2004 @ 9:44 PM

And maybe that's where I think Carrie and Big's biggest problem was. I think they had a lack of communication.


Another example: in "Secret Sex", she gets so worked up about his not introducing her to this guy they met on the street (turns out he forgot the name), about him taking her to the same Chinese restaurant (he thinks it's the best) and him not being able to join her little bus party (he had courtside tickets to the Knicks). I mean, come on! She could have discussed it with him before she showed up drunk in his doorstep (but then we'd miss the drama, i suppose).

I can only think of one ep where their communication is goofily cute: when she tells him she hates his cigars, that she hates the fact that she doesn't have a key to his apartment, that she hates it when he looks at other women...all said after she accidentally hits him. LOL. On his part, he only says that he doesn't like her eating oranges in his bed (he earned several brownie points here in my book).
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#174

memememe76

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Posted Apr 1, 2004 @ 1:33 AM

Even prior to that one, Big was offering to break things off with Natasha, but he said that he wanted to be certain that he and Carrie would be in it together. And Carrie was the one who didn't make that commitment (maybe because of Aidan, but the fact that she wanted to be with Big that badly should have been a wee hint that Aidan was not the right man for her).


He wanted to be certain that he and Carrie would be in it together?!?!?! This is a good thing about Big?
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#175

BodhiChicka

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Posted Apr 1, 2004 @ 3:07 AM

He wanted to be certain that he and Carrie would be in it together?!?!?! This is a good thing about Big?


I don't think I expressed myself very clearly...oops...what I meant was that I remember a conversation between Carrie and Big in which he stated that he was willing to break things off with Natasha if Carrie was willing to commit to being with him. And Carrie just kind of danced around that. This may or may not be a good thing (if one thinks that Big was a slimeball for what he did to Natasha, then this is probably a bad thing, but in the context of Carrie and Big this is a good thing).
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#176

Maureen

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Posted Apr 1, 2004 @ 10:44 AM

I never thought Carrie was waffling here about whether or not she wanted to be with Big. I think she wanted to be with Big forever and always practically from the day she met him. I just think Big's statement there didn't really give her a secure feeling or prove to her that he loved her and wanted her unequivocally.

Why didn't Big just leave Natasha once he started the affair with Carrie? If he desperately wanted Carrie, he'd have been proactive and done that, and then he would have waited for weeks or months or however long it took for Carrie to delicately extract herself from her relationship with Aidan. Big would have waited too, wouldn't he, if he loved her so much and wanted her in his life permanently?

Carrie was waiting for Big to make a BIG move that would demonstrate just how serious he was about being with her. It takes a lot more to get out of a marriage than to get out of a non-legal relationship. It's easy to say Carrie was ambivalent, but I don't believe that's really not how it was playing out. I'll leave my wife only if you leave your boyfriend? Carrie should have expected a bigger proclamation than that before she left the man who adored her to return to the man who repeatedly broke her heart.

I personally think Aidan deserved a lot better than Carrie, but in terms of Big and Carrie alone, I think Big was the one holding back in that scene, not Carrie. Heck, if he truly loved Carrie, he never would have married Natasha in the first place.

P.S. I'm new here. Heard about it from a fellow online friend who told me there were nice, intelligent discussions on this forum. She was right.
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#177

dimples1

dimples1

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 1, 2004 @ 1:28 PM

I personally think Aidan deserved a lot better than Carrie, but in terms of Big and Carrie alone, I think Big was the one holding back in that scene, not Carrie. Heck, if he truly loved Carrie, he never would have married Natasha in the first place.


I agree Maureen, but where would the drama be for 6 years IF Big and Carrie were truly honest with each other?! Two people who honestly cared about both Big and Carrie, ended up getting hurt. Natasha and Aidan, but the show's not about them, so who cared, right?
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#178

Maureen

Maureen

    Just Tuned In

Posted Apr 1, 2004 @ 2:22 PM

[I agree Maureen, but where would the drama be for 6 years IF Big and Carrie were truly honest with each other?! Two people who honestly cared about both Big and Carrie, ended up getting hurt. Natasha and Aidan, but the show's not about them, so who cared, right?]



Hi dimples. Yes, you had to have the drama or else the Big/Carrie affair would be kaput or they'd be married by the third season.

I don't necessarily believe Big needed to be in the picture for six seasons. By mid-series I got bored with the push and pull of their relationship, and I also got frustrated with Carrie's doormat behavior when it came to Big. Considering the series was never all that faithful to Candace Bushnell's original book, it could have been doable to have Big disappear sooner.

I was a huge Aidan fan and, from what little we were shown of Natasha, I liked her just fine, so I was definitely on their side when Carrie and Big betrayed them both.

I do agree that the Big/Carrie relationship was one of the show's anchors and it was high drama and fascinating to watch. But I still felt really sorry for Aidan, even though I knew he was all wrong -- not to mention too good --- for Carrie.
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#179

Ollie

Ollie

    Channel Surfer

Posted Apr 1, 2004 @ 3:41 PM

So much discussion about Big reminds me of the first time my husband saw "I Heart NY." He turned to me and said, genuinely shocked, "OH, we're supposed to like Mr. Big?!" Heh heh.

Count me on the side of those who buy Miranda and Steve's relationship (he's hands-down my favorite SATC guy), though like many of you I didn't like Miranda's storyline in the finale. Sure, it's fairly realistic, but I just hated to see Miranda have to compromise and compromise and compromise. She bought the house and moved to Brooklyn. That, too me, should have been her big sacrifice. This ending made it seem like she had become some martyr or something (Re: "don't tell Steve" about CrazyMaa's Pizza Incident). It was just too much, too far, too Very Special Episode.

I think all of the endings were like that a bit, though, like they had to push just a little too far to make the endings neat. I was actually surprised given how much I'd heard about planned SATC movies. Seemed like they kind of sabotaged that, though maybe they already knew the movies probably weren't going to happen.
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#180

BookWoman56

BookWoman56

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 1, 2004 @ 4:02 PM

Hi, Maureen. I agree that the Carrie and Big relationship was intended to serve as one of the anchors for the show, but it just didn't work for me. After the affair, that should have been the time for Carrie to do some serious thinking about what she wanted in a relationship. Post-Big & Natasha divorce and post-Aidan dumping Carrie because she was unfaithful, it just seemed as if the Carrie and Big relationship was at the do or die point. Neither was in a relationship, and while I agree that Carrie needed some time to cool off, that could also have been the point at which Carrie confronted Big and told him flatly that either they would have a committed relationship or no relationship. Instead, the writers gave us Carrie going back for another round with Aidan, while deciding to be just friends with Big. After the 2nd Aidan debacle, again, if Carrie was really in love with Big all along, why didn't she talk to him about it?

Then Big gets shipped off to Napa (read that as Chris Noth got tired of the character). For the rest of the series there is minimal evidence that Carrie is really missing Big or that he is seriously thinking about wanting to be with her (Domino Effect episode notwithstanding). If the writers had given us even a 30-second scene of Big in Napa, with a friend or two asking why he's not involved with anyone and his responding that he's still attached emotionally to someone else, his showing up on Carrie's doorstep would have seemed a little more believable. Instead, the way their relationship was handled throughout the series, at the end I just felt like these two have had six years to make a relationship work, and it never has. So I couldn't bring myself to want a happy ending for them; I just wanted them to go away and let us see more of Sam, Miranda, and Charlotte.
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