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Star Wars: The Clone Wars


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#751

ganesh

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Posted Oct 2, 2012 @ 11:30 AM

Right, that was my point. Kenobi is physically strong so using a single blade makes sense. But not everyone is as strong, so a smaller quicker fighter might want to use two blades. Of course, isn't fighting prowess linked with strength in the Force. I know I'm reading too much into it, but it seems weird that mostly every Jedi fights the same way. Though, that may be the problem. Their reluctance to adapt, whether fighting styles, making Anakin a Master, etc., was their downfall.

I've only seen Sith use the double-bladed sabers, except in the video games. Which again seems silly because if you're a pretty tall and strong Jedi, using the double blade would be nearly unstoppable.
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#752

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Posted Oct 2, 2012 @ 4:46 PM

I figure part of it is holdover from the samurai inspiration of Jedi; samurai weren't known for wielding more than one sword at a time.

Also, the idea that a smaller and more dextrous fighter would opt for paired blades is kind of proven by Ahsoka, I think. But just as not every Jedi has overwhelming physical strength, not every Jedi would be able to handle a pair of lightsabers as effectively. Standard training starts you out with a single lightsaber, so it's not really surprising that most Jedi would not see the need to pile more blades on top of that. Particularly since the art of deflecting blaster bolts makes a single blade sufficient protection against legions of firearm-wielding opponents. Since the primary use of two blades is to fend off multiple opponents, a skilled Jedi with a single blade would usually find it redundant unless he was battling a Sith or other lightsaber wielder. Which is apparently rarer to the Jedi mindset than it seems to the audience, since I believe only one lightsaber fighting form really covers saber-to-saber dueling.

IIRC, the lightsaber hilt also generates a powerful gyroscopic effect that makes it extremely difficult to wield, even though the blade is basically weightless energy. So that's probably one more reason most Jedi would feel that one blade is more than enough.
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#753

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Posted Oct 2, 2012 @ 10:33 PM

I'm glad we rarely see anyone using a double bladed sabre, from a practical aspect it is just about the worst designed weapon ever (it's designed to emulate a staff weapon, as Ray Park is highly skilled with them, except, of course, that you can't use the best staff techniques with it because touching the sabre parts will cut off your hands), it's more dangerous to the person using it than it is to anyone else, they'd be better off just using a single blade.

Also from a practical standpoint most Jedi should probably be wielding a shorter saber in their other hand primarily for use as a blocking option, even better they should probably have a light-shield/buckler type device to use with their other arm.

*I believe one of the EU books even comes out and says that double bladed sabers are intended to only be used in training, they're only used in combat for shock value and because they're so different from what Jedi are normally accustomed to facing.
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#754

ganesh

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Posted Oct 2, 2012 @ 10:53 PM

Oh, I know originally that the inspiration was the samurai. And they tend to fight that way, like they don't fence with them. But I figured with the prequels, the introduction of so many Jedi/Sith in the prequels, and the long form storytelling opportunity from the cartoon, that you'd see a variety of styles. Kenobi and Anakin kind of have to be single-bladed. Windu doesn't. Yoda has to, but I think he would have been better off with a double blade. But again, actual skill only counts for so much. The skill = function(Force Strength) really hasn't been nailed down that well.
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#755

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Posted Oct 6, 2012 @ 12:00 PM

I liked learning the best way to take down a Destroyer droid in today's episode!
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#756

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Posted Oct 6, 2012 @ 5:11 PM

They actually set up a love quadrangle in this episode with Ahsoka, Lux, and the other two.

Really good episode. I like this training the rebels storyline and the planet animation continues to be first-rate on this show.
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#757

ganesh

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Posted Oct 6, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

Also from a practical standpoint most Jedi should probably be wielding a shorter saber in their other hand primarily for use as a blocking option, even better they should probably have a light-shield/buckler type device to use with their other arm.

They actually do have the short-saber for off-hand defense in KOTOR. I just figured since this is a "more civilized age," we'd see more variety. There's only a few colors too even.

I didn't think I'd like this episode, but it was pretty good. I like that this was Anakin's idea to train a small insurgent force. I wouldn't call it terrorism unless they don't care if they kill their own citizens in the process, and it doesn't seem like they are willing to do that. It's civil war at the worst. And fighting droids is specialized, and needs specialized training. Of course, most of the Jedi are loathe to do anything innovative and new.

I like how Anakin busted out the "most impressive" line.

With Anakin doing things like this; new strategies, etc., it gives the scene in ROTS where they deny him being Master carry more weight. And it makes Yoda seem kind of short-sighted for not even entertaining that he might go dark side. Though, I think the Jedi council is really lacking direction in the war, even in the movies.
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#758

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Posted Oct 6, 2012 @ 9:10 PM

Didn't the lightsaber color embargo come down from Lucas himself? IIRC he really wanted to restrict the colors other than blue, green, and red. Though I wouldn't be opposed to making yellow more common, like in the video games. Violet can still be a premium color so that Sam Jackson can continue to feel special.
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#759

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Posted Oct 7, 2012 @ 12:35 AM

Yeah, I didn't see what Anakin proposed as training terrorists. It's a war strategy aimed as weakening the Seperatists from within.
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#760

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Posted Oct 7, 2012 @ 2:17 AM

The opening scenes were just confusing. The opening newsreel seemed to imply that the planet had recently fallen to Separatist with a new king placed on the throne who allied with the separatists, and that the rebels are fighting a separatist occupation. Yoda says the king allied with the separatists at the start of the Clone War, the rebels say he isn't the true king. Obi Wan says "blah blah blah, Legitimate Government" implying they view the king as legitimate.

I couldn't figure out what the actual situation was supposed to be.
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#761

ganesh

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Posted Oct 8, 2012 @ 9:39 PM

Violet can still be a premium color so that Sam Jackson can continue to feel special.

Mine were violet in the video games too. Until you get the mega crystals that basically allow you to effectively divert comets and solar storms.

I thought the new king came into power however they do on that planet and then allied with the sepratists. The people out of power wanted to oust him and ally with the republic. It seemed to me that it was a civil war, which is why Kenobi was talking about leaving it alone.
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#762

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Posted Oct 20, 2012 @ 11:48 AM

I love seeing new technology on the Clone Wars. The one-way shield was cool.
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#763

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Posted Oct 20, 2012 @ 1:19 PM

I really enjoyed this episode and the issues they discussed. Maybe the best episode of the current arc, impressive considering the main characters aren't in it that much. Love the animation, especially during the night scenes which creates a great mood. I also liked the new royal general character.
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#764

ganesh

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Posted Oct 21, 2012 @ 2:31 AM

I'm also enjoying this current arc more than I thought I would. I generally don't find the "main war" stories so interesting. Although I find the idea of a "king" kind of silly in intragalatic, advanced societies; you have Dune as a precedent, so I can't really bitch about that.

I watched the 2nd and 3rd of these back to back. They've done a really good job fleshing out the main characters, but I knew the helmet girl was a redshirt. You also had to have known the human general was going to come around in the end. But I liked it. The back and forth with him and Che Guevara's brother basically set it up. It was a well done scene. And really, their last name basically sounds like Geuvara!

I still like the interplay between terrorist/patriot. They took the time to address the citizens and let them know that they weren't just randomly attacking. It seems to me that this new king and the droids are more of an occupying force. The old king is now saying he didn't want to pick a side in the war. And I wonder if more nation-planets haven't felt this way too. So they got rid of him and installed someone else. Why? Does this system hold strategic value? Do they have resources? I know there's no point to the actual war, but I thought the old king was actually going to arrive at that conclusion. I can't believe no one has yet. The Jedi are just stupid. I know that's the point of it all, but come on. There's no Jedi scholars and philosophers? Does Dooku have the resources to force planets under his rule? Or, is it like the USSR, where Poland, et al., were buffer states?

It would be really cool of the king effectively abdicates and turns the planet over into a democracy.

Poor 'Snips. I think she has to make a move when she did, but like they said at the end, now Dooku thinks the Jedi are involved. So he'll be really pissed. I have a bad feeling that this planet is going to get caught in the middle of it all.

I have to laugh sometimes at how thin the movies actually are. It makes good sense for Jedi to go to different planets and train smaller forces like this over the larger scale "traditional" warfare.
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#765

benteen

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Posted Oct 21, 2012 @ 8:43 AM

Although I find the idea of a "king" kind of silly in intragalatic, advanced societies;


Yeah, Lucas seems to like the idea of the benevolent dictator.
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#766

ganesh

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 1:23 AM

Which is weird because they have an actual Senate that seems to run on democratic principles. And I think we've heard of a prime minister of such and such world a few times. Not that I don't think dictators will rise and fall into the future, but calling someone "king" seems odd.
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#767

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 7:27 AM

As much as I liked the storyline, I found it odd that the Mon Cal (who become major supporters of the Rebellion) last season had a king.
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#768

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 8:03 AM

I dunno, plenty of current nations here have a monarchy and a publicly elected government. And if Queen Elizabeth II were forced out to placate the Americans and their tanks, I have a feeling the British would be mightily pissed off. Now, it would behoove Lucas and Filoni to show that these monarchs are more figureheads that power-wielders, but it has always been my complaint that they aren't really interested in showing how these governments actually function. Even the Galactic Senate, or whatever it's called, doesn't really seem to do anything. I don't mind that they don't get into politics, but then, don't have episodes about politics or the questions will come up. Who has sovereignty? What kind of political/governing system is this? How does it work? I have a feeling they don't know, it's not thought out, and the stories suffer because of it.
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#769

crazymadness

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 10:00 AM

Amidala was the democratically elected queen of Naboo, whatever that means. I'm pretty sure Lucas is just using it as a title for the leader of a planet instead of President or Prime Minister in some cases. I think that it is stupid, but that's Lucas for you over complicating things.
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#770

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 2:20 PM

You would think the planets in the Republic would be pretty sovereign but then you have episodes like last year where Amidala says that the Republic controls all sorts of things, right down to water for the people of her planet.
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#771

ganesh

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 10:13 PM

In this past episode it seemed that the "king" was giving actual orders to the generals. So he seemed like a dictator. These governments are all over the place. I thought the Republic was more like a confederation of planets, but here, if they're controlling water, etc., it's more of a Federation. I doubt Lucas even though much about it. We've actually had dictators in our own lifetimes, so it's not unheard of. But I don't want to see episodes about the inner workings of politics. I don't even know why the Sepratists even want this planet.

Eh, they had an aristocracy in Dune and it doesn't bother me. That was pretty well-organized and clear though. I guess it's weird how everything is all over the place with the politics.
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#772

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Posted Oct 27, 2012 @ 12:33 PM

Damn.

R.I.P. Steela.
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#773

benteen

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Posted Oct 27, 2012 @ 2:48 PM

Yeah, Steela's death was an absolute gut punch. I didn't expect her to be the one to get it.

It was a great episode though and an amazing conclusion to the storyline. I liked the use of Hondo here as well.
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#774

ganesh

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 3:00 AM

That was a really interesting arc of episodes to get through. I don't usually like the typical Clone Wars plots. But for me, the problem is, the Confederation could send in an overwhelming force at any time, so why? Now they won't? So what was the point? Is the Confederation looking to establish buffer states?

I think it was a mistake for the young Senator to declare for the Republic at the end. The original old king didn't want to choose sides. So they put him back in power and now they're Republic?

I do like how this whole story was predicated on Anakin thinking outside the box. So when the Council is all like, oh no he hasn't done enough, that it's wtf. Really the point is the Jedi Council itself really created Vader.
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#775

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 1:38 PM

I still don't understand the politics of why the Republic/Jedi wouldn't overtly aid the rebels. At the least everything indicates that the transition of power to the new king wasn't peaceful and he very quickly declared the planet for the droids after seizing power and taking the old king prisoner.

Of course, given how quickly the Separatists pulled out rather than commit more resources, I think I can just assume that the planet wasn't all that important strategically and neither side actually thought it was worth the effort.
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#776

ganesh

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 5:30 PM

No, the new king, the younger guy, was installed by the Sepratists when the old king refused to pick a side in the war. Unless the new king told the Sepratists to help him become king and he'd declare for them? Because they said in Part 1 that the new king wasn't legit, even though Kenobi was bitching about respecting the planet's governmental processes. So something was fishy.

I think the Jedi didn't actually provide overt support because they're a finite entity, there's only so many Jedi, *and* how do you decide who to help? Plus people will start expecting the Jedi to come in and help them.

Anakin's idea was pretty smart: sneak into the planet to train them to fight on their own. Of course, the Sepratists got wind of it when Snips jumped out in the public square.

I think the point you're getting around is that the planet wasn't really strategic and there wasn't much of a point to this. The Sepratists sent in more troops because they thought the Jedi though that this was an important place. No Jedi ended showing up and they got their asses kicked anyway, so they figured it wasn't worth having to continually fight to stay there. Another slick move by Anakin to broker the arms deal since it was basically the Jedi's fault they the extra troops came in.

But that's the case of the whole war. We know in hindsight that Palpatine is just playing off both sides there isn't a point to any one particular engagement. That's why I usually find the plots that deal with the war not so interesting, since we know there's no point to it. I'm surprised that neither Kenobi nor Anakin aren't really realizing this at all. I found Yoda massively short-sighted in the prequels so I'm not surprised he isn't.

I think it was a mistake by the kid at the end to declare for the republic since the whole point was that the old king wanted to stay out of this whole business. Thank you for your help Anakin and Snips, we can take care of ourselves now. You'd think there would be a League of Non-Aligned planets for those who don't want anything to do with the war.

Part of what I liked about this one was that Anakin came up with the entire strategy. I don't know if it's on purpose, but it seems like TPTB are laying the groundwork for when the Council denies him to be Master just because he didn't take a bunch of silly tests.
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#777

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 6:30 PM

I've got a bad feeling about this.
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#778

Vermicious Knid

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Posted Oct 30, 2012 @ 9:19 PM

I fully expect any future seasons of CW will be on DisneyXD.
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#779

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 12:10 PM

I fully expect any future seasons of CW will be on DisneyXD.


Remember what happened when Disney bought Marvel?

They cancelled "Spectacular Spider-Man", and had it replaced with "Ultimate Spider-Man".

All I am saying is don't be surprised if they cancel "Clone Wars" and replace it with "101 Ewoks".

I sense a great disturbance in the Force.

Edited by Twilight Man, Oct 31, 2012 @ 12:13 PM.

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#780

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Posted Nov 2, 2012 @ 9:45 AM

I fully expect any future seasons of CW will be on DisneyXD.


You called it! It's not official, but we know it will be soon. Star Wars The Clone Wars likely to leave Cartoon Network.

Edited by TobinAlbers, Nov 2, 2012 @ 9:45 AM.

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