330 replies to this topic

[Pat Agonia]

Just thought I should let any of the fans among you know that the American DVD rights for Sailor Moon will end by the later part of this year, so the present DVDs will likely go out of circulation.

Anyways, another guilty pleasure and a gateway anime drug. My favorites included Jupiter and Venus.

[slaughteredlamb]

Yeah, the first season box (possibly even the second, I can't remember) stopped being made in April, so they're going to get harder to get. I still can't decide to buy them or not.

[The 2nd Evil]

I used to watch on Cartoon Network.

I've only seen the U.S. Version. I heard one of the season one villains (Zoicite, I think) is a gay man in the Japan version, so they changed him to a her for the U.S.

Is that true?

[Klitch]

True indeed. Zoicite is a man in the original, and in love with Malachite. One of the season four (SuperS) villains was also changed -- Fisheye is a cross-dressing man in the original, but made a girl in the dub. And of course, the infamous change of making Sailor Uranus and Neptune into cousins in order to get around the lesbain overtones of the original. The US version of Sailor Moon got some good butchering.

Edited by Klitch, May 7, 2004 @ 9:16 AM.

[The 2nd Evil]

I didn't know there was a cross-dressing man, or lesbian undertones.

This is what I get for losing intrest when it was on CN.

[Leanan]

Don't forget about the Sailor Starlights, and their gender-bending ways. I still wish we could get a legit release of Sailor Stars.

[Klitch]

I didn't mention them since that season never ended up on TV. Ditto with the wishing for a release of it, though. I think the problem is that Sailor Moon has declined in popularity in the States, so no figured it was worth it to bring SailorStars over. Though I imagine a TV dub of it would've just been bad -- they could have done what they did in Italy, which was to explain the gender-bending by claiming that when the Starlights transformed they were replaced by their twin sisters.

[Leanan]

There's been some speculation about FUNimation buying the rights to Sailor Moon. They've got some big announcement coming up, so some fans think that the timing of the announcement and the recent yanking of the US rights are connected. I highly doubt it's true (I personally think that FUNi will be announcing that they have licensed Prince of Tennis, Fullmetal Alchemist or One Piece), but it's an interesting thought, to say the least.

*pets her pretty VKLL fansubs*

[evilredsmurf]

Actually I'd read that SailorStars would never get released here in the U.S. because the creators/copyright owners felt it was too dark of a series because of all the characters dying at the end, and that it wouldn't be well-received here and might mean the end of the SM popularity. So I doubt it'll be licensed over here any time soon unless some company makes an outrageously high offer, which probably won't happen due to the already-decreased SM popularity.

[SafetyGirl]

As I understand it, seasons 1 and 2's licenses were over in April, and Geneon's licences on the movies expire at the end of the year and seasons 3 and 4 sometime in 2005. Geneon is re-releasing Season 3 in June and Season 4 in August in boxsets with thinpacks. Season 3/S is my favorite, because I love Neptune and Uranus when they first come in. I've been afraid on Season 4/SuperS because of the supposedly high Chibi-usa factor.

Funimation? That would be interesting, but Toei seems to be holding onto this show for some reason.

Edited by SafetyGirl, May 9, 2004 @ 12:53 PM.

[NySoul]

Wow! This is weird, I just discovered this thread today. Sailormoon that was just so long time ago. First anime ever for me. Ah, memories.

I have a website that explain in detail all the changes that were placed in Sailormoon S and Sailormoon SuperS. Let me try to find it.

they could have done what they did in Italy, which was to explain the gender-bending by claiming that when the Starlights transformed they were replaced by their twin sisters.

That's interesting, never knew that.

As for the dark factor with the deaths of the senshi, but the fact is that the they are revive at the end, doesn't that take away the dark factor?

ETA: Anyone read SM fanfics?

Edited by NySoul, May 10, 2004 @ 12:10 AM.

[sakurafied]

Wow!! Is this a new thread?! There was a lot of changes to the American version of Sailormoon. Not only did they make uranus and neptune cousins, the starlight bending genders, etc.

There is..
-Rei's father not being a perv.
-All the panty shot sceens were cut out along with all the nudity.
-Attack names and power were changed.
-They called her "serena" throughout the whole series, not usagi.
-"Originally, to make Sailor Moon more "safe" or "moral", I guess, a "Sailor Says" was tacked on at the end of every episode saying some silly, cliche lesson of the day, like "Eat healthy" or "Don't do crazy diets" or "Be nice to everyone". This was NOT in the original anime at all."

also you can read more about this here.

SafetyGirl wow its a small world! you do serve in hush and sm.

Edited by sakurafied, May 9, 2004 @ 9:47 PM.

[SafetyGirl]

NySoul, Sailor Moon does seem to be the "gateway drug" of many an anime fan... I remember catching it on TV when it was on, and wondering if I was seeing the same episode over and over. It's what really got me hooked on anime last year - I got the movies on VHS, subtitled, $5 at a con, and really enjoyed them. R is fun for the HoYay!

And yes, sakurafied, I serve many places, depending on whim.

[NySoul]

Well, I'm not much into anime anymore. I seemed to have every anime that are out right now in Japan, but I never really watch them.

SafetyGirl, you only got the movies on subtitled, but have you seem all the subtitled of all the season? My favorite season has to be Sailormoon S (Outer Senshi) - the Japanese version. I never saw the dub version and never want to.

What are the spoiler rules in here - I know the general spoiler rules, but each thread might have different rules. It seemed like everything after Sailor Super S is considered spoilers right, it just that the Live Action series haven't air here, but it not considered spoilers in here.

[Leanan]

S was my favorite season, too. Everything was great - the music, the villains, the Outer Senshi. Sailor Saturn is my favorite senshi. She has a kickass theme and a kickass weapon.

I don't watch the live-action series, but I've read summaries and seen pictures. I can't believe they made Luna into a senshi. Cheesetastic. I guess they needed a Chibi Usa substitute. I also really like what they've been doing with Minako. As a favorite of the Inner Senshi, I'm glad they're treating her character more seriously.

[NySoul]

My favorite senshi are Neptune and Uranus. I love Haruka's flashback episode. Imo, that was the best episode of the season. Of course, Megumi Ogata voice for Haruka was simply amazing too.

Thinking of Haruka and Michiru and all the gay & lesbian undertone in other anime series makes me question why this is case? All Japanese more accepting when it comes to GLBT community than United States or other places?

I don't know if I can ever watch live-action series though, it just seemed so cheesy. I don't know if I can stomach it.

[Leanan]

There was an article on yaoi and yuri in Animerica a few months ago. The Japanese have a different outlook on same-sex relationships. There's a consensus that early crushes or first loves between members of the same sex aren't anything to freak out about. Kids do tend to spend more time around members of their own gender, so it's natural. Also, such relationships are something that the Japanese think kids will grow out of. "Being out" is totally different, though. It's not exactly accepted, but there's less prejudice, which has more to do with a different worldview than with tolerance.

[NySoul]

You know if with the "consensus that early crushes or first love between members of the same sex aren't anything to freak about," the first love on television shows aim at Japanese audiences including children and young teenagers aren't exactly first love - they are of gay and lesbian couples. I mean Haruka and Michiru aren't early crushes that will grow out of, but they are portray as couple who are destined to be forever in love and is meant to be together.

Given that - I probably should research more one this. I'm so out of touch with anime these day and Japanese culture in general. However, it still does surprise to some degree that a lot of anime has GLBT undertone, heck there is even Gravitation, shows that are clearly viewed by children. Yet, in the United States, when will there ever be a gay character in one of the Disney Channel shows or any other shows target toward children and young adult. Most shows are toward older teenagers and older audiences such as: Will & Grace, Friends, Queer Eyes for the Straight Guy. There are two that fully explore the lives of homosexuals including Queer as Folks and the L Word.

Why is this the case? Why it is acceptable for Haruka and Michiru to be lesbians in Japan, but cousins in the U.S.? What cause this differences where one culture has GLBT on shows that are clearly watched by kids while United States it is toward a older demographic?

[Leanan]

I forgot to go into all of that in my earlier post; damn headache.

Our culture is passive-aggressive towards sex, while we revel in violence. In Japan, it's the opposite. Sex is just something people do, while violence is for adults only. It's that worldview that allows for Japanese television to have same-sex relationships in children's shows. There is literature about samurai forming incredibly close bonds with other samurai. Same-sex relationships in literature are nothing new to the Japanese.

Also, one of the core concepts in anime and manga is identity and acting out. The characters are somehow different from their peers, whether they're a magical girl, surrounded by hot alien babes or gay. Anime and manga allows the writers to discuss issues that can't be spoken about comfortably. Death, love, who am I, who do I love and why do I love, what's important to me.

Obviously some of it has to do with cashing in on sexual fantasies. But because manga and anime allows for so much expression of ideas, the Japanese GLBT community simply has their own manga, just as children do, just as women do, just as action-lovers do.

I'll look up more from the article if anyone wants. Right now, some ramen would be nice. Yum.

[Uzumaki]

As usual, it all boils down to religion. We all know that the United States is a heavily Judeo-Christian society, which almost treats sex as a neccessary evil (and here I resist interjecting my own views on the... nevermind) and villifies homosexuality. In Japan, the top 2 religions are Shintoism and Buddhism, with Christianity coming in a distant third.

Shinto has a sex-positive ideology and many chaste Buddhist monks didn't regard sex with other males as breaking their vow, so other boys were fair game. And from that comes modern Japan's lax views on homosexuality. I might add that Japan is rather affection-shy, so a man and a woman kissing in public will probably get their share of stares, too. (Heh, I rhymed!)

[NySoul]

Leanan, thank you very much for the thoughtful answer to my question. I guess, when it comes down to it, there is a certain sense of acceptability then. I mean, psychologically it says a lot when there are GLBT are such acceptable on everyday television shows. For children to see GLBT on T.V., imo, help the commmunity in it's acceptability, because children do take in they see and having those characters on television, to me, says GLBT are humans with basic human rights. They exist everyday.

Our culture is passive-aggressive towards sex, while we revel in violence. In Japan, it's the opposite. Sex is just something people do, while violence is for adults only. It's that worldview that allows for Japanese television to have same-sex relationships in children's shows.

That makes snese then. While in our culture, children has been desensitize to violence that nothing surprise them anymore. I mean how would parents and maybe even the FCC react if suddenly the next television has GLBT characters on T.V. interacting with straight members. Sorry if this is off topic, but it is interesting to me. However, I do think Japanese even with GLBT visiblility, they don't deal with the issues that GLBT faces.

Oh yes, I'm going to go make some ramen noodle now.

[soapygirl]

Also there was more cursing in the Japanese version, if I'm not mistaken.

I used to be huge Sailor Moon fan back in the day. I watched most of the shows dubbed but I managed to get to see the third season (one that introduces Neptune, Uranus and has the heart crystal plot) in Japanese with subtitles.

My favorite character at the time was the much-maligned Sailor Saturn (who, oddly enough did not get an English name. Who knows what the dubbing people smoke) I was impresed by the crazy death-centric super powers and uber tragic background, but then I was a really goth wannabe kid at the time.

[NySoul]

As usual, it all boils down to religion. We all know that the United States is a heavily Judeo-Christian society, which almost treats sex as a neccessary evil (and here I resist interjecting my own views on the... nevermind) and villifies homosexuality. In Japan, the top 2 religions are Shintoism and Buddhism, with Christianity coming in a distant third.

Uzumaki, does religion has make that big of a difference though. I mean if religion is the key, then why wouldn't other countries with a similar religious background, or one where the main religion is Buddhism be more acceptable toward the GLBT community then?

For example, in India there is little to no visiblility for GLBT on television or the Bollywood industry. One of the few movies was Fire and that was banned btw when it came out and it is still it. The movie was treated as immoral. Even religion played such a big role, wouldn't Asian raise Buddhist or Shinto in United States be more acceptable toward GLBT? But it is not, Asians in the U.S. has this "hush hush" mentality about it. I don't know any other country that as open toward this issue than Japan. It seemed to me more of a culture issue then.

[Uzumaki]

The main religion in India is Hinduism, which doesn't say much directly on the subject. I would imagine it's frowned upon, because it doesn't lead to children.

Buddhist and Shinto practitioners in the U.S. are still in the U.S. No matter what you believe, if it isn't a popular view, people tend to stay quiet about it.

[Vermicious Knid]

India is heavily Hindu and Islamic. I'm really not sure what the Hindu attitude towards homosexuality is. There's actually a facinating politico-religious movement going on where people of lower castes are mass-converting to Buddhism because of the rigidity and prejudice of the technically-outlawed-but-still-going-strong caste system that prevents them from getting better lives and jobs. But that isn't quite what we're talking about.

It's Christianity that has largely demonized sex. Judiasm forbids homosexuality but doesn't have Original Sin and among the 936 commandments (or 639, I never remember which) men are enjoined to make sure their wives get regular sex. And Reform Judaism a few years ago officially accepted same-sex couples. Also, fun fact, the parts of the Bible that talk about homosexuality refer to men 'laying with men as women' so technically lesbianism isn't forbidden.

There was also a long and storied history of Samurais enjoying young boys, which would be seen as child prostitution today.

[deadpill]

My favorite character at the time was the much-maligned Sailor Saturn (who, oddly enough did not get an English name.

OH, but she did: Hoetarrooo, as opposed to Hotaru.

[Dei]

I mean Haruka and Michiru aren't early crushes that will grow out of, but they are portray as couple who are destined to be forever in love and is meant to be together.

Really, Chibi-usa and Hotaru are a better representation of the childs first love style homosexuality. While Chibi-usa falls for a guy (in Pegasus shape) in SuperS and another in it's movie, although I can't remember which at the moment, in Super and the beginning of Stars the closest thing they have to a love interest is each other.

Haruka and Michiru, on the other hand, were never portrayed as a having childish love. Right from the beginning they always seemed serious, for all that Haruka was a flirt with the other girls, and throughout the series their relationship kept maturing. They might be young, but their relationship is no child's first love.

Seiya in Stars is the same. Most people tend to overlook her when pointing out the gay characters in the series, or just mention the Starlights as a group are transvestites. However, for all that they took male form to make their search for their princess easier (and in the manga they didn't even do that), they're still girls in their minds (just like if you wore a gorilla suit as a disguise you wouldn't identify yourself as a gorilla), and over the course of the season she first became attracted to, and then fell in love with, Usagi. And I rooted for her the whole way, since I liked that pairing a hell of a lot better then I ever liked Usagi with Mamoru. This time it does seem to be a childish crush at first, on their first date Seiya acts like your stereotypical little kid that picks on the girl they like just to get attention, but over time it clearly grows beyond that into real love.

Edited by Dei, May 12, 2004 @ 9:53 AM.

[Mophead]

And of course, the infamous change of making Sailor Uranus and Neptune into cousins in order to get around the lesbain overtones of the original.

I just kind of took that to mean they were lesbian cousins. It was far more entertaining that way.

[TimeMonkey]

I always thought that it was funny that when they tried to do away with Uranus and Neptune's relationship by making them cousins they just ended up portraying incest.
My favorite was Pluto followed closely by Mars and Wicked Lady. I've only seen the Americanized Anime version so I'm not entirely sure what all has been altered. I wish that Wickd Lady and Pluto had been around longer because they were really cool.
Did they alter the way that Zoicite was drawn because I totaly thought that he/she was a woman and I'm usually pretty good at spotting the same-sex couples.

[Leanan]

TimeMonkey, this site was in the process of going through the dub, and listing all of the changes. If you ever went to DBZ Uncensored when it was still around, then it's modeled in the same way. I'm not sure how far along they are now, as I haven't been to the site in months. But I'm pretty sure they got finished with S and Super S.

NySoul, no problem. I had fun with the discussion. This is the most I've talked about Sailor Moon or anything related to it in a long time. I kind of miss it, now.