Jump to content

Oz


  • Please log in to reply

3341 replies to this topic

#2611

Eliot

Eliot

    Stalker

Posted May 4, 2007 @ 8:35 AM

Some of the scenes look so familiar already.


In fact, if you look closely enough, you will see that one of the shots in the opening montage of that episode - gnarly-looking tattooed cons filing sullenly past a chain link fence - actually ended up in the Oz opening credits.

Yes, I've watched way, way, too much Fontana in my lifetime. Why do you ask?
  • 0

#2612

swingkidpt

swingkidpt

    Fanatic

Posted May 11, 2007 @ 11:12 AM

Oz shout-out on The Daily Show last night. Some pundit compared Iraq to Oz and Jon Stewart said it was much more similar to our Oz than the Wizard of Oz.
  • 0

#2613

iMissEthan

iMissEthan

    Stalker

Posted May 11, 2007 @ 1:11 PM

Complete with tiny video clip of a brawl inside Em City. I knew someone would beat me to the post - hi swingkid. Hope you're doing well. I miss hearing about your studies & stuff.
  • 0

#2614

Eliot

Eliot

    Stalker

Posted May 11, 2007 @ 8:01 PM

Isn't it so funny that we all rushed to this thread to report the Oz sighting! I miss you guys!
  • 0

#2615

UnfamousLoser

UnfamousLoser

    Fanatic

Posted May 12, 2007 @ 4:21 AM

AfterElton.com (gay men's entertainment website) put Beecher & Keller on their "TV's Most Influential Gay Male Sex Scenes" list.

On the cable channel VH-1 there's a pop culture show called Best Week Ever, in which actors/comedians comment on things that happened in entertainment in the past week, like Paris Hilton being sent to jail for driving without a license and violating parole, and make jokes. There's a bit in which comedian Paul F. Tompkins plays "the Celebrity Defender," where he pretends to be a defense attorney trying to get celebrities out of legal trouble. During the Paris Hilton bit he said (paraphrasing): "Your honor, if you send my client to jail, you mean one of those minimum-security-rich-white-people-jails, right?...What?...No, I've never seen Oz. I'll put it in my queue."
  • 0

#2616

M. Darcy

M. Darcy

    Stalker

Posted May 15, 2007 @ 1:08 PM

I saw those Oz shoutouts too! And, Sister Pete was on Ugly Betty last week!

Couch Baron mentioned the world's greatest movie in his Veronica Mars recap.

Heh,

These are seriously damaged, messed-up men who make for riveting watching.

AfterElton.com got it right. That is a great description of that relationship.

Edited by M. Darcy, May 15, 2007 @ 3:11 PM.

  • 0

#2617

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jun 9, 2007 @ 7:54 PM

I started watching this show with the replay on HBOZone. I couldn't handle it when it first aired on HBO in '99, but for some reason, now, I have no problem watching it every night before I go to bed. Desensitized much?

What helps a lot are the recaps, which I'll sometimes read a couple of days ahead. It's interesting that being 'spoiled' as it were, doesn't diminish my enjoyment, if I may call it that, of the show. Another side benefit of seeing the show now is seeing all of these actors I now know from very different roles. Very hard to see JK Simmons as Mr. Avuncular after seeing a couple of seasons of Shillinger.
  • 0

#2618

UnfamousLoser

UnfamousLoser

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 1:36 AM

dreamy said:

Very hard to see JK Simmons as Mr. Avuncular after seeing a couple of seasons of Shillinger.


That's very true. In Entertainment Weekly magazine they have an occasional feature called "Ask a critic," in which readers can ask quesitons. Back in February 2007 someone asked movie critic Lisa Schwarzbaum if there was any actor that was permanently stamped, in her mind, as a particular character, and she said:

I mention J.K. Simmons, one of my favorite versatile movie-and-tv players, and credit him as the newspaper editor in Spiderman. I could have easily ID'd Simmons as Garth Pancake in The Ladykillers or the cigarette mogul Budd Rohrabacher in Thank You For Smoking or in a million TV episodes, 900,000 of them involving the words Law and Order, where he plays shrink Dr. Emil Skoda.

But noooo; The J.K. Simmons I always think of is Vern Schillinger on Oz, leader of the Aryan Brotherhood, rapist of meek cellmate Beecher, violent brute, tattooed monster, and man with a whole lot of butt time on the naked-centric, extreme HBO prison series. And it ain't the tats that haunt me


Someone (I forgot who) once wrote that if Vern Schillinger had been in a theatrically released movie with Jodie Foster, the character would be remembered as one of the great movie villains of all time.

Edited by UnfamousLoser, Jun 10, 2007 @ 1:37 AM.

  • 0

#2619

whiteshirtrocks

whiteshirtrocks

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:12 AM

Someone (I forgot who) once wrote that if Vern Schillinger had been in a theatrically released movie with Jodie Foster, the character would be remembered as one of the great movie villains of all time.


So true. Something happened to the actors on this show, all of them, where their naked (no pun intended) portrayal of the characters became chillingly believable. With all of the brutal plotlines, there was a good chance that any one portrayal could have easily gone over the top and been a charicature of itself--but the acting really was exquisite throughout the entire series.
  • 0

#2620

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jun 10, 2007 @ 10:39 PM

That's a good point; in my opinion, some of the writing is way over the top, but the acting is spot on.

I was having a conversation with a good friend about Oz (she's the one who really got me to watch this show), and I had forgotten which came first, The Sopranos or Oz, and in either even, I thought that these shows had made so many other shows that I loved possible; whether it was The Wire (which I think is one of the finest shows ever on television), Six Feet Under, Deadwood, any of the great shows on F/X, SciFi network, Showtime, etc. HBO taking a chance on a show with potentially limited appeal, and sticking with it, committing to a phenomenal ensemble cast, and 'unusual' writing, paved the road for all the other shows that didn't fit a 'normal' mold - and that may only have a five or six year run in them at best, story-arc-wise.

I know that's a totally run-on thought, but I hope it makes some sense.
  • 0

#2621

goldil

goldil

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 12, 2007 @ 9:12 AM

I had forgotten which came first, The Sopranos or Oz


Oz came (heh) first.
  • 0

#2622

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jun 12, 2007 @ 11:11 PM

In more ways than one, hmm?

That explains why Diane had to leave for London and marry one of the Queen's guard, right? Tony and New Jersey was calling.

I know that I'm the only one here new to the show, but is anyone else watching the episodes on HBOZ every night? I'm having a hard time getting to sleep after an hour of this intensity, but I don't want to tape them and watch them the next day. It must have been pretty intense waiting a week for each of these, though it's pretty cool seeing it straight through like this.
  • 0

#2623

TVFreak

TVFreak

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 13, 2007 @ 7:55 AM

I know that I'm the only one here new to the show, but is anyone else watching the episodes on HBOZ every night? I'm having a hard time getting to sleep after an hour of this intensity, but I don't want to tape them and watch them the next day. It must have been pretty intense waiting a week for each of these, though it's pretty cool seeing it straight through like this.


I started watching the show back in '97 -- but I still TiVo the reruns on HBO Zone (and here is the fucking twisted thing - I have all the episodes on my media server, which is attached to my HDTV -- but I use the TiVo in my bedroom if I'm too lazy to watch on my laptop or you know, walk 20 feet) and try to watch them live when I have time. Even knowing what is going to happen, I still get totally immersed in the show.

And yes - waiting a week was a total bitch -- but not as much as waiting a year between seasons. I mean, The Sopranos 18 months+ hiatus times really pushed my limits, but at least they would come back with more than 8 episodes. It was always so frustrating (but in a good way) as a viewer to have two months of bliss, and then to have to wait another year for my Ryan O'Reily fix.

And I agree, "Oz" totally set the precedent for HBO's future series (and for FX original series in general - because FX is essentially basic cable's answer to HBO) -- I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was actually HBO's first dramatic original series (I remember the mini-series Grand Avenue or something, about Native Americans in South Central or something back in '96, but I can't recall any fictional dramatic "series" pre-Oz) and it certainly proved that hour-longs with adult content, graphic violence, nudity and language could succeed on cable television.

I was watching The Sopranos with my dad on Sunday (one of our few common bonds is our love for that show) and I remarked how it was so strange, that for the first season or two of that show, I had a hard time seeing Carmela as anything but Diane - but now, it's the opposite - she IS Carmela (I had the same time with Kristin Davis the first two years of Sex and the City - I kept seeing Brooke from Melrose Place, but she became Charlotte forever through the course of SATC). What used to freak me out when Oz was still on the air though was all the actors that had parts on L&O: SVU. I mean, seeing Keller and O'Reily in the squad room fighting the bad guys, instead of being the bad guys was just weird. Even though he's played good guys before, J.K. Simmons became an Aryan motherfucker to me when he did the two-part Homicide/original L&O crossover episode where he played what was essentially Vern Schillinger with a different name. That was the first time I ever saw the guy in anything, and so when I saw him the following year on Oz, as essentially the same character (his Homicide character died en route to New York for extradition, much to Pembleton's displeasure -- God, that was a great Homicide...), it was like "oh - snap - this guy is fucking evil." Every Spider-Man flick I get freaked out because I'm afraid Jameson is going to burn a swastika into Peter Parker's ass. And don't even get me started on seeing Shirley Bellinger as D'Onofrio's partner on L&O:CI. I don't even watch that show, but if I happen to catch part of an episode on Bravo or USA, I always get freaked out.

Oh - and did someone ask about a book? It's an extended episode guide, and it's not as awesome as The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer of Twin Peaks fame (but then, really, what is?), but it's pretty cool for $2.50.
  • 0

#2624

ghetto hood rat

ghetto hood rat

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 13, 2007 @ 10:23 AM

I remember a friend of mine joking (sort of) "If the guys in prison are as hot as those boys on Oz, I need to kill you and get into prison now!" We fought over who would get Alvarez, my friend just wanted to "hold" and "comfort" him, because he was such a lost soul. I wanted Beecher, Keller, and whoever R.E. Rodgers played (he was the white supremacist who got his dick bitten off by Beecher and got a black person's gums). Those guys were all so hot. I loved how the show seemed to be popular amongst black audiences first and then when gay guys noticed full frontal in the opening credits, they came on board. I'm black and gay, so Oz was a perfect storm.

HBO used to be so down, with "Oz", "Pimps Up, Hoes Down", "Hookers on the Point", "Def Comedy Jam", etc. Then they went all upscale-what happened?
  • 0

#2625

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jun 13, 2007 @ 10:43 AM

TVFreak, think about how I feel! I know all of these actors from their more recent roles, so I spent the first two weeks (corresponding to seasons 1 and a half) going: "Carmela?" "OH MY GOD! Dr. Skoda?" "Elliot, oh, Elliot!"

And that's before I saw Bodie from The Wire and Lt. Daniels.
  • 0

#2626

shucks

shucks

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jun 13, 2007 @ 3:36 PM

just got the first season of the muppet show on dvd, and sister pete's episode is the best on the whole season. if only she knew then . . .
  • 0

#2627

kwnyc

kwnyc

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 18, 2007 @ 11:18 AM

Since we don't have premium cable (oh, all right, we don't have cable), we've been Netflixing through the entire run for the last month and OH MY GOD. What a fucking phenomenal show! We check the mailbox every day: is it here yet? Then usually watch the entire DVD in one sitting (2-4 episodes).

And yes, I've read ahead in the TWOP recaps to see what's going to happen.
  • 0

#2628

lilarose6

lilarose6

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 4, 2007 @ 10:26 PM

AfterElton.com (gay men's entertainment website) put Beecher & Keller on their "TV's Most Influential Gay Male Sex Scenes" list.


God, they were. I found them dyfunctionally riveting when I first watched my DVDs....and they just "happened." There weren't in depth "discussions" of their same sex relationship as the "issue of the week." Praise be. What's astounding is how electric they were and all you ever saw them do physically was kiss and hug. No grinding of bodies together. If you ever want proof that less can be more when it comes to sexuality depicted on screen, Beecher and Keller are it. As electric as they were physically, emotionally the stakes were one thousand times higher even when they fought, which was most of the time.

I'll never forgive Fontana for how they ended. I hope a sacred cow leaves a relic in his gatorade every day and no, it wasn't the dying I was pissed off about.
  • 0

#2629

Cookie Simone

Cookie Simone

    Stalker

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 11:02 AM

Hi everyone! I'm new to the show and I just finished watching all six seasons. I've become pretty addicted and I'm really going to miss it. I didn't hate the last season like a lot of people do, I'm sad about Beecher & Keller, but I never expected them to live happily ever after. I just don't understand why Keller did what he did.. why did he kill himself when it was obvious Toby would've forgiven him eventually? why would he want everyone to think Toby killed him? and finally: why do my favorite characters always die? damn you, Keller!

I think Cyril should've died on episode 54 instead of the finale, it felt like they dragged it out too much. It was still very sad when it did happen, but it would've been much more effective if it had happened on episode 54. Also, the finale was the longest episode of any show I've ever seen. I felt like they tried to resolve too many things, and I found that a bit unrealistic... not everything gets resolved, some people don't see the error of their ways and decide to become better people, especially on a show like OZ. I really think the season should've had a few more episodes, they needed more time to wrap things up in a satisfying manner.

Edited by Cookie Simone, Jul 6, 2007 @ 11:29 AM.

  • 0

#2630

lilarose6

lilarose6

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 8:42 PM

Oh my, someone who disliked the final episode as much as I did. Heaven.

I think Cyril should've died on episode 54 instead of the finale, it felt like they dragged it out too much. It was still very sad when it did happen, but it would've been much more effective if it had happened on episode 54


No lie. I haven't a clue as to why Fontana scripted a stay for Cyril's execution only to execute him 2 episodes later. That nullified the emotional crescendo of Cyril's death and Ryan's unwilling but inevitable acceptance. Then again, Fontana scripted many MANY things during season six with which I disagreed. I'm not a fan of Oz's final season to say the very least.


Also, the finale was the longest episode of any show I've ever seen. I felt like they tried to resolve too many things, and I found that a bit unrealistic... not everything gets resolved, some people don't see the error of their ways and decide to become better people, especially on a show like OZ


Too too too TOO MANY storylines that Fontana scripted wrapping up in "Exeunt Omnes." He couldn't do justice to any of them. I didn't want valuable time wasted on Claire Howell and Jazz Hoyt. Don't even get me started on Lemuel Idzik and his universe is ending nihilistic crapola or whatever it was. I can't bring myself to watch the episode again to clarify it. I hated the episode just that much. Said died for this? I realize that Eamonn Walker had a scheduling conflict and had to go, but there are ways to kill off a character that resonate emotionally at least a little bit. Kareem Said deserved better--yes, I'll be redundant and say it. Could his death have been more anticlimactic? Granville Adams as Arif just couldn't bring it with his character's emotions, what emotions the script allowed him to have that is. Then Idzik droned on and on and on and......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......


I'm sad about Beecher & Keller, but I never expected them to live happily ever after. I just don't understand why Keller did what he did.. why did he kill himself when it was obvious Toby would've forgiven him eventually? why would he want everyone to think Toby killed him? and finally: why do my favorite characters always die? damn you, Keller!


Oh Cookie, don't try to explain the inexplicable. Supposedly we were supposed to think Keller realized that Beecher would never forgive him this time so he ended it, thinking Beecher would be blamed and they'd be together in death, but it didn't quite wash, did it? That Keller would give up like that? I didn't expect them to live together in a little house happily ever after either, but Fontana couldn't have scripted a more unsatisfying ending for the dysfunctional duo if he'd tried. Keller just gave up like a pussy? Gosh, I'm glad I waited so long for that.....grumble......I can deal with the fact that Keller died. That in and of itself didn't bother me. I expected Keller to learn sooner or later that you can't outrun your past sins, but as I said before, there are ways to kill off a character and ways to not kill off a character. Oh, Toby never really loved him. I see. Uh huh. Right. Fuck you, Fontana. Meh. Keller turning him back in was a complete disconnect from the Cuts Like a Knife Keller who could live without Toby if that's what was good for Beecher. Who later told him not to come visit him at Cedar Junction if he was paroled, who told Toby to run and not look back during the call in Sister Pete's office. Keller demonstrated that he could live without Beecher. He didn't expect to come back to Oz. What kind of crack was Fontana smoking? I still can't believe it. Me....I hated season six as much as everyone else and then hated it some more. Nothing in the entire season worked for me except for Robson's abuse at the hands of Wolfgang Cutler and his newfound awareness.

For me, seasons one through four are it. Had the kitchen explosion been the last shot of Oz, I could have lived with it. I almost rather it had been cancelled then like they thought it was going to be. Seasons five and six were far too repetitive IMO.
  • 0

#2631

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 9:30 PM

Heh. I'm near the end of season 5, courtesy of late night HBO, and oddly enough, it doesn't disturb me to be spoiled (I often read several recaps ahead of the episode I'm currently watching.) That's not typical for me, but I don't know why.

Season 6 starts next week for me, so I expect I'll be here in about two weeks grumbling as well.
  • 0

#2632

lilarose6

lilarose6

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 9:53 PM

Gird your loins if you're a Beecher/Keller fan, dreamy. I watched the series for the first time on DVD as well. sigh The kiss at the end of season five was hot to say the least, but I couldn't believe that Fontana scripted nothing together for Beecher and Keller all season until that moment. Nothing. I understand that Meloni had asked to leave because he didn't think he could do both SVU and Oz at the same time, but when he asked to come back (and I can understand Fontana wanting him back, especially after losing Adebisi) it seemed as if he had nowhere to go with Keller but back down.

You can't make him too good, or he's no longer Keller. However, Fontana scripted an exit (which he believed would be permanent) that was a little too noble. It was wonderful (and in character, because for whatever reason this serial killer genuinely loved Tobias) but what do you do for an (unexpected) encore? It's as if Fontana was caught unaware. Listen to me. I sound like a shipper. I almost never "ship" any couple, but Tergesen and Meloni's chemistry when they were loving, fighting, and breaking each other's bones was phenomenal. They caught lightning in a bottle. I think the only other thing Fontana could have done was have Keller die to save Beecher at the end....it would have been preferable to the set up, that's for darn sure. :(
  • 0

#2633

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 10:02 PM

Reading the recaps is a mess o' fun, I have to tell you. The antipathy toward McManus just cracks me up. And I can't believe that they got away with this, even on HBO.
  • 0

#2634

lilarose6

lilarose6

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 10:06 PM

There are recaps for shows that have ended here on the site, or are you talking about HBO site recaps? I'd like to read them, too. Sounds like fun.

BTW, how the hell did Ryan O'Reily get away with all the shit he got away with? It was amusing as hell to watch, but damn he was an opportunistic little shit like I've never seen. Dear God, could that man manipulate.

Edited by lilarose6, Jul 6, 2007 @ 10:08 PM.

  • 0

#2635

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 10:37 PM

I didn't really like the HBO recaps of Oz. They were so snapshot-y. (Especially compared to the novelistic ones they do for The Wire.) The TWoP recaps are quite funny.

Sweet Mother of God!

As I'm writing this, Keller is disrobing in front of Peter Marie. I will never be able to watch SVU the same way again.
  • 0

#2636

lilarose6

lilarose6

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 6, 2007 @ 11:01 PM

Ahhhhhhhh, the full monty for the nice lady from West Side Story. I remember it well. Hee. Meloni ain't shy, is he?
  • 0

#2637

SusannahDean

SusannahDean

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 7, 2007 @ 11:36 PM

The TWOP recaps are awesome. I believe they're what brought me to TWOP in the first place and I have never looked back. Then again, that could have been American Idol.

Then again, Fontana scripted many MANY things during season six with which I disagreed.

Ah, yes, I much agree. The death of Petey being one of those things that I am still bitter about.
  • 0

#2638

lilarose6

lilarose6

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 8, 2007 @ 12:02 AM

There were so many deaths in season six I couldn't keep track anymore. Said, Omar, Jazz Hoyt, Vern, Harrison Beecher, Winthrop, the Aryans, Cyril, Leo, the re-bricking of Cloutier, Keller....Petey? My old brain has lost track. The death row fashion shoot was a particular favorite. Cripes. Definitely definitely should have ended with the kitchen blast in "Famous Last Words." The last two seasons really dragged it down in overall quality. One full monty shot of Keller, beefcake delight though it is, and a hot kiss or two between Toby and Keller wasn't enough to compensate for the rest.

Edited by lilarose6, Jul 8, 2007 @ 12:03 AM.

  • 0

#2639

dreamy

dreamy

    Stalker

Posted Jul 8, 2007 @ 12:25 AM

Lalalalalalalalala, I can't hear you. sticks fingers in ears.
  • 0

#2640

SusannahDean

SusannahDean

    Fanatic

Posted Jul 8, 2007 @ 12:29 AM

....Petey?


Poor sad tragic Peter Shibetta who had the grave misfortune to be victimized by both Adebesi and Schillinger.
  • 0