7462 replies to this topic

[glitter5579]

Yeah...[sigh]...I so loved that first Audrey.

I can't wait for my favorite Audrey quote: "Listen I know your a simple girl who grew up on a stream or whatever..." She was such a fun character until Pacey screwed the fun out of her. Kinda like how he screwed the sane out of Andie and the truth out of Joey. Pacey has a power to turn his screwing into evil! *shrugs* Oh well, he still is the perfect boyfriend.

[3edges]

Word, Hex!!! That's the only possible explanation that makes sense. Works for me!!!

[ScarletGirl]

She was such a fun character until Pacey screwed the fun out of her. Kinda like how he screwed the sane out of Andie and the truth out of Joey. Pacey has a power to turn his screwing into evil!

LOL! Yet, a chance they all seemed willing to take. Over and over and over again. And can anyone really blame them? :-)

That's okay. We got them back with "Have a Little Faith in Me" being a PJ song in the finale.

Yeah, I guess we should just be happy they didn't use "This Year's Love," huh?

Happy New Year all!

Edited by ScarletGirl, Jan 1, 2004 @ 11:31 AM.

[glitter5579]

LOL! Yet, a chance they all seemed willing to take. Over and over and over again. And can anyone really blame them? :-)

See I've been thinking, maybe the sex is so good that women are forced to sacrifice something to obtain it. Audrey was willing to give up her sassiness, Andie was willing to give up the bird in the coo-koo clock, and Joey was willing to break all ties with honest Abe. It's a curse for him really, poor thing.

[TripleMaster]

Just remember, Pacey felt like Joey deserved better! Of course, she was a "freaking goddess".

[TripleMaster]

Only Joey, herself, Hex. Only Joey. So, she had nowhere better to go.

[TripleMaster]

So she decided to go to the bottom of the dating barrel? Joey has , to her credit, broken up with Dawson several times and each time she always manages to snag a great guy but to rebound with Dawson is just wrong, no matter how much she was hurting, because Dru was still open and he,as well as almost every other guy on the planet IMO, is better than Dawson.

Word to all of this, Hex. In my world, Coda and The Kids are Alright are only dream sequences -- more like nightmares. I boycott these episodes and try to pretend they don't exist.

Last night I watched Stolen Kisses yet again. Aside from Aunt Gwen and her insufferable hellmate fluffing, I found a new scene that makes my skin crawl. Near the end of the episode, Joey is trying to get up the nerve to tell Dawson that she is feeling it with Pacey. Aunt Fluff, er, I mean Aunt Gwen, interrupts the conversation and Joey uses the interruption as an excuse to bail out. As she leaves, she pats Dawson on the arm.

And then, I realized it. Any bodily contact between Joey and Dawson makes me want to puke. I know it was only a gesture of kindness and that Joey was falling for Pacey. I know she was just about to go out to talk to Pacey, to grab his hand as he was walking away, and that she was about to kiss him, not the asshat. But still, just to see her touch Dawson's arm made me sick.

Now, when I pointed this out to one of my 13-year old twins, she thought I had totally lost it. She's probably right. But I just wanted to scream at my TV that Dawson is a sociopathic stalker. And, as demonstrated by Aunt Gwen, it runs in the family. Run, Joey, run!

Dawson was Joey's consolation prize. I felt bad for Jen too. That is why I can't ship Dawson and Jen.

I love Jen, though I rarely say it. She deserved better than Dawson. In fact, when Pacey and Jen were experimenting with their emotion-free sex pact, I could have become a Pacey/Jen shipper pretty easily. But then Pacey and Joey got together and I lost all interest in ever seeing Pacey with Jen.

Speaking of this transition, am I the only one who sympathizes with Jen when she and Pacey got caught making out in the coat room during Four to Tango? She just got so exasperated when she learned that Pacey had confided in Joey about their pact. Just what she needed -- to have yet another guy lose interest in her because of Joey.

Back to pretzel's comment, I would like to add that MW deserved to have better story lines and to have been treated with more respect. After all the shit the writers piled upon Jen, she sure as hell didn't need to get stuck in the role of Dawson's consolation prize.

Now, I'm not one to speak ill of the dead and departed BUT, WHO didnt feel just a teensy-weensy bit peeved/enraged/uber-frustrated at Jen's timing with the passing out?

Having just spoken of my love for Jen, I feel free to agree with you anchorgirl. I also wish they had not made that kiss in response to Maddie's presence. Again, in my world, it would have been enough for Joey and Pacey to simply have grown up enough to realize they were right for each other. They could have spent the entire second hour on P/J goo, and it would have been fine with me. Oh, that and the scene where Dawson walks out to the end of the dock, lights himself on fire, puts a gun in his mouth, pulls the trigger, and topples into the creek.

Edited by TripleMaster, Jan 2, 2004 @ 8:57 AM.

[3edges]

OT, but EMERGENCY!!!!

Does anybody know when Pacey's birthday is? I really need to know -- it's sometime in the winter, but I need to know the date. Is there any way to find out?

[meldogg1978]

Pacey's birthday...if I remember correctly, he's an Aquarius (like me!). I believe his birthday was in January, around the early 20s...

[ScarletGirl]

fill me in ScarletGirl, what's wrong with 'This Year's Love'?

Nothing's wrong with it - it's PJ's song. I was lamenting that the show used "Daydream Believer" (aka the song that was playing when Joey first kissed Pacey) for the DJ kiss in "Coda." spider pointed out that PJ got a DJ song in the finale, so they were even. But, to me, had a David Gray song come anywhere near DJ...flames, flames on the side of my face!

BTW, listen to the David Gray song that is playing in the background of the PJ scene in the third episode and tell me how that whole scene was supposed to be anything but closure ("Say Hello, Wave Goodbye," with lyrics about never knowing each other, blah blah blah we-weren't-the-real-dealcakes).

A couple other things about the first few eps that made it painfully obvious that we were all supposed to forget PJ:

- Audrey likening Dawson to her h.s.boyfriend. Now, clearly, her description of him doesn't match Dawson (it actually sounds more like what Pacey did with Joey, ie "we were going in two seperate directions...."), but we were all supposed to understand that *Joey* was likening it to Dawson, as she then called him.

- Before PJ even meet again, we see Pacey canoodling with Melanie, crystalizing how he spent his summer *and* we get the beginnings (craptastic as they were) of Pacey/CKAK. Why didn't they just scroll "Pacey's moved on" across the bottom of the screen?

- The first meeting between PJ. Obviously meant as closure. And *might* have worked to except for the fact that when JJ and KH were in a scene with just the two of them, the chemistry was still there. But, still, the writers wanted us to put the flowers on the grave of this couple.

I also wish they had not made that kiss in response to Maddie's presence. Again, in my world, it would have been enough for Joey and Pacey to simply have grown up enough to realize they were right for each other.

Two things: One, the first kiss was a response, but the second, and more intimate, imo, cheek kiss was all about the luv! Secondly, the seeds were planted before they knew of Jen's condition with both P and J feeling like something was "off" with their lives - Joey, with questioning why she wasn't giddy at the prospect of marrying Christopher, and Pacey, who should have been happy/happy with his business going well, but was having his case of the "is this it?s." One could say that while Jen's pending death made them finally take the blinders off, there was perhaps something already brewing underneath the surface - Jen's death just made them realize that now, rather than later, was the time to act.

[TripleMaster]

I agree with all of the above, Scarlet. I was simply exaggerating my often expressed desire to have seen more of the resolution of the P/J decision. I thought MW did a fabulous job in the finale, and brought tears to the eyes of this cynical old guy. But I will never stop wishing that we had been given the ultimate deal sealing moment between Joey and Pacey instead of the penultimate kitchen scene.

Oh well, I'm getting tiresomely repititious, so I'll stop.

[sophronia]

But I will never stop wishing that we had been given the ultimate deal sealing moment between Joey and Pacey instead of the penultimate kitchen scene.

Hear, hear! I really hate that because it just feels like everyone got robbed. The DJers got that stupid "we will always be each other's best friends" speech, and since the DJ relationship never was any more that a lot of talk, you'd think the DJers would have been satisfied -- but they weren't. They wanted the big fated romantic ending they'd been promised for 6 seasons. Meanwhile, the PJers got even less. They didn't even make it clear why Pacey was there -- maybe he just needed a place to crash while he was visiting New York. Sorry, but "It's us!" was not the acknowledgement of commencing a lifelong love relationship that I was waiting to hear. I just can't shake the idea that even at the very end, the damn writers just wouldn't commit, and that half-assed ending was another attempt to make things ambiguous enough to please everyone.

Sorry, I've ranted on this before, but S5 is so damn boring, I really have nothing to say about the episodes that are on right now.

[TripleMaster]

the first kiss was a response, but the second, and more intimate, imo, cheek kiss was all about the luv!

Well, you made me go back a watch the dance/kiss scene again. What a sacrifice. I agree that the second one was more intimate, but with the way Katie played it, it looked like the first one rocked Joey's world.

[ScarletGirl]

They didn't even make it clear why Pacey was there -- maybe he just needed a place to crash while he was visiting New York. Sorry, but "It's us!" was not the acknowledgement of commencing a lifelong love relationship that I was waiting to hear. I just can't shake the idea that even at the very end, the damn writers just wouldn't commit, and that half-assed ending was another attempt to make things ambiguous enough to please everyone.

Eh, I don't think it was ambiguious at all, though I do agree they thought they were pleasing everyone by giving the DJers the final soulmate talk and giving the PJers the couch scene. However, I honestly believe - even without PS/KW commentary on the dvd - that the implication was that PJ were together, in every sense of the word (ie he was living in NYC) and that it was 4eva!

Do I wish we had gotten a great onscreen PJ scene where this was specifically said? Sure I do (hell, I put a curse on both Gale and Bessie for their kitchen interruptus <g>)! But, considering I, who was spoiled up the ying yang for the finale, was still waiting for them to pull a switcheroo and end with DJ, I can, quite nicely, fill in the blanks of what happened between when Joey hugged Dawson at his house and the final couch scene, and know that Pacey and Joey did get the happy ending.

I agree that the second one was more intimate, but with the way Katie played it, it looked like the first one rocked Joey's world.

Oh, I agree. In a way, it was like a replay of the roadside kiss when every started with PJ. This one got Joey starting to realize what exactly it was she was missing in her life.

Edited by ScarletGirl, Jan 2, 2004 @ 12:52 PM.

[glitter5579]

Well, you made me go back a watch the dance/kiss scene again. What a sacrifice. I agree that the second one was more intimate, but with the way Katie played it, it looked like the first one rocked Joey's world.

From 623 Recap by Wing Chun:

Pacey asks Joey if she wants to help him out. She asks how. Pacey leans forward and plants a big smooch on Joey, dipping her backwards and everything. It's the kiss we saw in the promos, and it's pretty good. Virginia Madsen blinks a few times, and then pouts off. Joey looks stricken. Pacey breathes, "Thanks," and kisses Joey softly on the cheek. Joey wets her pants, if you know what I'm saying. Wait, that wasn't subtle. So you do know what I'm saying.

'Nuff Said

[dc friends]

I probably shouldn't be admitting this, but I actually kind of like Coda. I know it's crazy, but it just doesn't really bother me that much. I like the scenes with Jack, Jen, and Grams. I love those three together. The scene where Grams was talking about her and her husband was sweet. I also like the goodbye scene between Dawson, Jack, and Jen. I like some of the callbacks to season 1, like when Grams opens the door and sees Dawson and Jen outside or when Jen tells Joey "I like your hair color, what number is it?" or when she tells Dawson "wit. we like that around here." It all had a very reminiscent feel to it.

Joey's my favorite character, so I usually enjoy watching most of her scenes, even if they are with Dawson. The Dawson/Joey scenes aren't too bad in Coda, IMHO. They were actually kind of acting like real friends. I thought Katie did a really good job in her scenes, especially the ones where she and Dawson are saying goodbye outside on her porch (I particularly like the part where Joey says that she'll see him at Christmas. She's trying to sound joyful, but her eyes start filling with tears. It always gets to me) and the one where she makes her "do you believe in magic?" speech. The lines about the magic running out with Pacey and not falling for a sea creature don't bother me. She's got a right to be a bit bitter after the way things ended. Pacey yelling at her at prom, telling her she makes him feel like nothing, then leaving and not contacting her. She could have said a lot worse than what she said. Also, she never technically said that Dawson kissing her was her most life altering moment. She said there were a lot of winners there and she just mentioned that one. Maybe she chose that one because she was speaking to Dawson and they were reminiscing. I don't think Joey had any romantic feelings for Dawson in this episode. I think she was just going to miss her best friend. This was a big turning point in their lives. They were going to be living on opposite coasts. I think the kiss was just a goodbye kiss. It was completely different than the season 1 finale kiss, for example. Dawson still went to California. I don't think Coda really undid all of season 4. There were a couple references to Joey still thinking about Pacey "every 10 seconds."

I don't like the start of season 5 though. That to me is when the writers really start to try to wash away all memories of Pacey and Joey and push forward the Dawson and Joey romantic angle.

[hersh]

I could see it now:
Pacey and Leon are huddled around a cell phone, a beer in each hand.
Leon: Who are you calling again?
Pacey:With a slight snicker No one, shh! It's ringing.
Dawson: Hello?
Pacey:Takes another swig of beer and deepens his voice Hello.
Dawson: Who is this?
Pacey: I just wanted to tell you man.
Dawson: Pacey, is that you? Are you drunk?
Pacey:Laughs, No!
Dawson: Pacey where are you?
Pacey: Joey's gorgeous isn't she?
Dawson: Well she is my soul mate.
Pacey: I wanted to tell you about this little birth mark she has right above her left ass cheek, it's shaped like a heart.
Dawson: What?
Pacey: Yeah, I saw it while she was my girl friend, and in love with me, and having sex with me and cracking jokes about your large forehead with me.
Dawson: Head starts to spin uncontrollably the skull getting larger and lager No!!!!
A large smash sound is heard on the other end of the phone.
Pacey: with uncontrollable laughter See, dude, I told you that would happen.
Leon: That was awesome!
The End of how Coduh should have been.

LMAO!!!! I know this was a couple pages back, but I still feel compelled to compliment glitter for this. As was said before, if only you could've been writing DC. Needless to say, I wouldn't be forever boycotting Coda if THIS had been Pacey's phone call.

[aizjanika]

Speaking of this transition, am I the only one who sympathizes with Jen when she and Pacey got caught making out in the coat room during Four to Tango? She just got so exasperated when she learned that Pacey had confided in Joey about their pact. Just what she needed -- to have yet another guy lose interest in her because of Joey.

No, I feel this way, too. I felt bad for Jen because of the way Joey reacted, but also for the reasons you stated. Jen was so sweet, though. She could see that Pacey felt bad and was confused, so she tried to comfort him a little before she left--and she remained his friend. I love Jen. I really think she was the most mothering and nurturing character on the show--and I like that.

dc friends, I understand what you are saying about Coda. It didn't bother me that much the first time I saw it either. I liked the scene at the ruins and the goodbye scene with Dawson, Jack, and Jen. I had actually forgotten that. They bought him a cell phone. I liked the phone call, too, as I said before. I also didn't get any romantic vibes from D/J in this episode at all--not even the kiss...hehe...though I could have done without that. Ick. I think this episode bothers me more as time goes on--not necessarily because of anything in this episode, but because of the way thing went after this, I guess.

Even that doesn't bother me too much any more, though, because I've come to terms with it now. Also, I never really had to suffer through wondering if P/J would ever end up together since the finale was one of the first episodes I saw. I was more curious about P/J's history than anything else as I watched the show for the first time.

[ScarletGirl]

The lines about the magic running out with Pacey and not falling for a sea creature don't bother me. She's got a right to be a bit bitter after the way things ended.

I didn't hear bitterness, though. I heard acknowledgement - as if, she had just realized that what she thought she had with Pacey wasn't the real deal, and that's what bothered me (ahem, to put it mildly) about Coda. Whatever implications we, the viewers (or, more aptly, PJ fans) thought in regard to the bullshit of it, or the totally un-romantic vibe between D and J, that was what the underlying message was - that D and J ultimately were the ones who would always end up back together, thru fate or destiny or whatever other stupid term du jour the writers were going with on any given day.

I love Jen. I really think she was the most mothering and nurturing character on the show--and I like that.

She was also clearly the most intuitive of the bunch. Maybe because for alot of it, she was more an observer to the triangle rather than an active participant (though there was that unfortunate incident of her having to deflower Dawson. As if the poor girl wasn't doomed enough...) and you can always see things clearer from that position. But I always loved the way she would drop a comment hear and there - be it to Joey, Dawson or Pacey - and it was invariably dead-on correct.

[Spider Girl]

Yeah, I guess we should just be happy they didn't use "This Year's Love," huh?

I believe that was you, Scarlet. If they had touched any David Gray song, they would owe me for a new television. That would have been wrong, wrong, wrong!

A couple other things about the first few eps that made it painfully obvious that we were all supposed to forget PJ:

- Audrey likening Dawson to her h.s.boyfriend. Now, clearly, her description of him doesn't match Dawson (it actually sounds more like what Pacey did with Joey, ie "we were going in two seperate directions...."), but we were all supposed to understand that *Joey* was likening it to Dawson, as she then called him.

I heard that conversation again this week, and again I was reminded of the banishment of continuity. Audrey's story was *so* PJ. Most importantly, because she and Chris (her Dawson) had actually - gasp - been in a relationship through her senior year! How can you find similarities in relationships if the relationship didn't happen? Bwah!

Hear, hear! I really hate that because it just feels like everyone got robbed. The DJers got that stupid "we will always be each other's best friends" speech

I hate this, too. However, I have rationalized it: the DJers got talk, the PJers got action. Whee!

I agree that the second one was more intimate, but with the way Katie played it, it looked like the first one rocked Joey's world.

Did I read that the second kiss was an adlib? If so, it would explain why KH played up the response to the first "staged" kiss - she didn't know the second one was coming.

I didn't hear bitterness, though. I heard acknowledgement - as if, she had just realized that what she thought she had with Pacey wasn't the real deal, and that's what bothered me (ahem, to put it mildly) about Coda. Whatever implications we, the viewers (or, more aptly, PJ fans) thought in regard to the bullshit of it, or the totally un-romantic vibe between D and J, that was what the underlying message was - that D and J ultimately were the ones who would always end up back together, thru fate or destiny or whatever other stupid term du jour the writers were going with on any given day.

Ah, Coduh. I completely agree, Scarlet, though I want to add one thing: the writers didn't earn Coduh. We go from Separation Anxiety and The Graduate - episodes in which there was angst and continuing love between PJ, but not what I would call "resentment". Sadness, yes. But definitely a theme of right person, wrong time. Then we get Coduh - very little Pacey, and all of a sudden DJ are best buds again? His leaving will break her heart? Um, no. You can't get there in one episode. Could they, in a few episodes, have shown Joey seeking refuge in Dawson after the Pacey breakup? Sure. It would have sucked, but it could have been done realistically. However, going from "take Capeside with you" to Dawson mackage? Hello, contrivance. Why don't you stick around for S5?