Jump to content

NCIS: Now with 100% Less Navy


  • Please log in to reply

36265 replies to this topic

#30931

Scorpiosrule

Scorpiosrule

    Stalker

Posted May 4, 2012 @ 9:45 PM

My bad;I must have zoned out. Happens sometimes when Ziva opens her mouth.
  • 0

#30932

lacey81

lacey81

    Couch Potato

Posted May 4, 2012 @ 10:08 PM

Speaking for myself, I never get sea sick or motion sick, and yet one time on a ship, I did. It is possible without it being a chronic issue. He was queasy, not crazy sick like McGee always is. The continuity there didn't bother me.

I don't see how NCIS became the Tony fanboy hour

To clarify, I was speaking specifically about the "One Last Score" episode (not that that changes your opinion, I'm just clarifying). OLS (for me) came across as written as fan service to Tony.

Some interview snippets with GG regarding the finale have started to come out. Pretty much just a teasing answer whether anyone will make it to see Palmer's wedding and a lot on Harper Dearing and Ryan (yay guest stars).
  • 0

#30933

FrogsRule

FrogsRule

    Fanatic

Posted May 5, 2012 @ 1:48 AM

Actually, Bud was really only on once, unless you're counting the JAG episodes.


kkowalski, you're absolutely correct. I checked IMDB.com. Why did it feel like more times? Did they allude to Bud more often or something, that it would've stuck that way in my brain?

When I checked out that actor's IMDB page, I was struck all over again by how much he looks like McGee!
  • 0

#30934

jennifer6973

jennifer6973

    Fanatic

Posted May 5, 2012 @ 6:08 AM

To clarify, I was speaking specifically about the "One Last Score" episode (not that that changes your opinion, I'm just clarifying). OLS (for me) came across as written as fan service to Tony.




That is probably because Michael Weatherly directed it.
  • 0

#30935

converse1973

converse1973

    Fanatic

Posted May 5, 2012 @ 7:03 AM

Didn't see OLS as the "Tony fanboy hour" but you and I see this character and his progression in dramatically different (completely opposite?) ways, I think. So perspectives will differ.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that MW, PP, and SM haven't yet signed on for season 10, etc. where used to put their respective characters in danger as part of a cliffhanger. I think they'd all come back, and I don't believe the show sees them as expendable at all, even SM's McGee. But I can imagine McGee and/or Tony getting injured. From SM's tweets, I assume it could be him, and he could be with Tony at the time. The title of the episode is refers to death anyway. McGee is reminiscent of Bud from JAG in my opinion, but I don't need him or any other character to lose a leg, though.
  • 0

#30936

Binks

Binks

    Fanatic

Posted May 5, 2012 @ 10:34 AM

I don't think OLS was a Tony fanboy episode either. It wasn't like he solved the case singlehandledly or even was the main person in solving it. In fact Gibbs was the one who caught the person in the end and EJ was the one was right that the female Madoff was playing them. Tony and Ziva played an equal role at the warehouse. He and EJ had the scene at the end but I don't see how that is different from an episode like "Dead Man Walking" where Ziva/Roy had a connection scene at the end.
  • 0

#30937

Primal

Primal

    Loyal Viewer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 7:14 AM

What was with the need to caption things in this episode?

A car drives past a dozen Italian flags after Gibbs instructs his team to go to Naples, Italy... and they feel the need to put 'Naples, Italy' on screen? Ditto with the captioning of the Brewer in dock when 5 minutes earlier McGee explained that the Brewer was headed for Norfolk. Is viewer IQ really sinking that low these days?
  • 0

#30938

Shadda

Shadda

    Couch Potato

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 10:07 AM

I didn't even notice the captioning. Who knows why they do it. Perhaps they just got a new captioning machine and want to use it as much as possible;-)

One thing I have noticed ever since "Life Before His Eyes" is that Gibbs does seem to be relying on Tony more and actually using him as his number 1, as the saying goes. When members of the team are away, he speaks to Tony, he takes him into MTAC, he even askes his opinion. Of course he had to ask since Tony was doing that whole not talking thing in that episode. He usually doesn't have to ask because Tony is usually giving his opinion all the time. Has anyone else noticed that or am I just seeing things?

Gibbs has really changed, I certainly hope they don't change him back because of this particular plot line. And as a poster up thread observed, yes, it is always about Gibbs and all of the bad guys have some sort of vendetta against him and he is responsible for climate change, and probably the sun rising every morning.
  • 0

#30939

converse1973

converse1973

    Fanatic

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 8:41 AM

Hmmm.....I suppose on some level Tony and Gibbs' working relationship is healthier in some ways that it used to be. I thought it was interesting that Gibbs sent Tony with Ziva to Columbia and when speaking to them in MTAC, he seemed to want Tony's honest opinion of what was going down with Monique. Maybe Gibbs is depending on Tony more.

I also thought it was interesting that Tony told Stan he hadn't been down in Gibbs' basement recently and had no idea what he was building. This might mean nothing, but the last time we saw Tony in Gibbs basement, he came seeking company and advice. I'm not sure how he felt being "set up" with Wendy in "Secrets," as he thought Gibbs was hinting that he needed to reconnect with his ex-fiance for one reason or the other. I can only assume that Tony is trying to figure things out on his own, at least that's what I'm taking from the subtext.

I think Tony has definitely matured this season, even if he still has moments when he's very old school Tony, and I hope we continue to see this when it comes to his relationship with Gibbs. As Gibbs said, Tony should learn from him not try to be him. I want to see them work together with Gibbs treating Tony as his number 1, and Tony acting as if he can handle that responsibility. But I also want it to be clear that they are two different people and that Tony has to follow his own path rather than checking to see if Gibbs approves of his decisions, especially in his personal life. This is why Tony went to Gibbs' basement in the Christmas episode, to see if he had made the right choice, and Gibbs expected him to come. I think if the show wants to show Tony and Gibbs' relationship evolving, Tony has to assert his own autonomy and show that he has a different (yet still effective) way of looking at things than Gibbs does, if that makes any sense.

I think this show has a lot of intriguing relationships among the team members, but there are times when I think Tony and Gibbs have one of the most intriguing ones. I'm also looking forward to seeing more Gibbs and McGee scenes. I like the few we have gotten so far in the latest episodes.

Edited by converse1973, May 7, 2012 @ 8:44 AM.

  • 0

#30940

HurricaneVal

HurricaneVal

    Couch Potato

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 1:27 PM

Actually, IS Gibbs currently building anything in his basement? He never started a new boat after the last one. Then he built Mike Franks' coffin. When Tony was last in the basement, Gibbs was assembling the bike for Leyla's child's Christmas present. So, maybe Gibbs has progressed enough as a person to not need the "basement boat therapy" anymore?
  • 0

#30941

SterlingMArcher

SterlingMArcher

    Couch Potato

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 2:42 PM

Hopefully he's carving another coffin for Samantha Ryan with a convenient rack on top for tubs of activia.
  • 0

#30942

jennifer6973

jennifer6973

    Fanatic

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 3:20 PM

Actually, IS Gibbs currently building anything in his basement?



Earlier in the season, he was re-painting and re-screening his back door.
  • 0

#30943

rory

rory

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:45 PM

They really had my hopes up for a minute at the end there that Ryan was gonna turn out to be the bad guy. She really bugs.
  • 0

#30944

lacey81

lacey81

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:58 PM

This one fell flat for me after really enjoying last week. I didn't see the Vance thing coming, so that's one plus, but all the time spent on Ryan just kinda bored me. I'm not invested enough in her character to care much. The last two years they've introduced these characters in like 5 episodes, and then ask me to care about them. Doesn't work for me.

And the whole bachelor party plot could have been much more amusing.
  • 0

#30945

lizziefitz

lizziefitz

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:06 PM

Ryan's a terrible drag--worse than EJ, and a bigger screen hog. I guess we're supposed to be warmed by her determination to drill past the rock-hard exterior to reach the gooey heart o' Gibbs, but she comes off as a terrible know-it-all, and who would withhold information or play games when so much is at stake? But I'm pretty sure she'll take up about half the episode next week. And it doesn't help that I can't stop hearing the "Activia!" theme every time she's on screen.
  • 0

#30946

SterlingMArcher

SterlingMArcher

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:22 PM

Die, Sam Ryan. DIE!
  • 1

#30947

AimingforYoko

AimingforYoko

    Stalker

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:23 PM

I guess we're supposed to be warmed by her determination to drill past the rock-hard exterior to reach the gooey heart o' Gibbs

This. I always appreciate a character that calls Gibbs on his shit, but she needs to know that the head games will only work if they're used judiciously. Context is everything.
  • 0

#30948

SterlingMArcher

SterlingMArcher

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:26 PM

And seriously pick a character we honestly care about if they're kidnapped or not. Vance blows.
  • 0

#30949

Mama No Life

Mama No Life

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:28 PM

Hopefully he's carving another coffin for Samantha Ryan with a convenient rack on top for tubs of activia.


Brillant!
  • 0

#30950

lacey81

lacey81

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:40 PM

And seriously pick a character we honestly care about if they're kidnapped or not. Vance blows.

At least he's in the credits. Small victories here.

This feels suspiciously like last year's final arc just re-purposed.

I feel like you can really tell the writers are terrified of doing anything big plot-wise with any of the main characters so nothing happens unless it's a) a guest star or b) easily reversible or back-tracked. The show just kind of feels like it's treading water right now and not sure where it's going.
  • 0

#30951

Binks

Binks

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:52 PM

Terrific episode and interesting twist with Vance being kidnapped. The through line of Jimmy being fearful of what Abby had planned for him and the team pulling his leg to up "his what have I got myself into levels" was comedy that worked. I especially liked the Tony/McGee double team at the beginning. It was an episode long running joke that was a good fun subplot without making anyone look too dumb.

So glad to see Dornegut back and Toby worked as a bad guy. I know Richard Schiff has been doing a lot of guest stints on episodic TV so I guess he has to be able to make both a believable bad guy and good guy. Not sure what to make of Ryan but I don't feel like she took over the episode. She had some scenes with Gibbs but both Tony and Ziva were also in interrogations with Gibbs so I felt it all balanced out. The preview was positively creepy.

I also think the show is the opposite of treading water. For example, I have seen more growth from the three main characters this year than I have in years. Gibbs no longer seems weighed down by his past. Tony has come back from the very regressed frat boy SB had him as. Ziva seems a lot more at peace and open than she was after Somalia.

Edited by Binks, May 8, 2012 @ 9:56 PM.

  • 0

#30952

SterlingMArcher

SterlingMArcher

    Couch Potato

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:08 PM

Tony and Ziva are in a vicious circle of shit. It's called stalling, Binks and it fucking blows.

Let us hate. We enjoy it. It makes the pain go away.
  • 1

#30953

lizziefitz

lizziefitz

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:10 PM

This feels suspiciously like last year's final arc just re-purposed.


Complete with abduction, bad guy with anti-Navy/anti-NCIS agenda, obsession with Gibbs, and skills of every kind necessary. At least last year's had Kort.
  • 0

#30954

Binks

Binks

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:22 PM

Since I don't think Tony and Ziva are in love with each other or even close to it I don't see them in a vicious circle of anything. They have an attraction and connection but I don't think they could ever be in a romance given they work on the same field team. I like where they are now - friends who are there for each other and have the occasional suggestive banter but nothing more. Gibbs is the star of the show. Not Tony or Ziva or even Tony/Ziva as a romance.

TPTB are smart to keep that in mind and never let it go further because if they did get into a romance it would take up way too much oxygen. GG was also smart to bring them back from the backbiting nasty place they were in until about mid season 8. Then not only were they not in a romance they seemed to not even like each other (especially Ziva in regards to Tony). Now we have their friendship back. A friendship that still has an undercurrent of attraction but isn't as lust fueled as it was back when they were just getting to know each other in season 3 (nor should it be as they are no longer new to each other)

As I have said in the past a romance now would seem absurd to me. If TPTB want to go there I think the better path would be to reveal to the audience they had a fling back during the summer Gibbs was gone. A fling that ended when Gibbs came back. I would still totally buy that.

Edited by Binks, May 8, 2012 @ 10:35 PM.

  • 1

#30955

randomname1

randomname1

    Video Archivist

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:49 PM

Tony and Ziva are in a vicious circle of shit. It's called stalling, Binks and it fucking blows.

Let us hate. We enjoy it. It makes the pain go away.


Ah, but some us of love! And we enjoy that, it makes us smile! I agree with Binks--there's been a lot of growth for Gibbs, Tony, and Ziva this year.
  • 0

#30956

lizziefitz

lizziefitz

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:58 PM

TPTB are smart to keep that in mind and never let it go further because if they did get into a romance it would take up way too much oxygen


I don't see why this is true. Is possible for them to take up more oxygen than Ryan's currently sucking down? More oxygen than is being wasted on the EJs, the Wendys, and the Rays? And just how many times can they lather/rinse/repeat with the current will they/won't they? But I may be giving this current writing crew too much credit to think that they could actually handle this not-so-complicated storyline. This finale arc seems pretty much a rerun of last year's, and if I were picking a finale to copy, it wouldn't be Pyramid. If they can't even rip off the good stuff, what can they do? Next year, rip off Judgment Day.

Since I don't think Tony and Ziva are in love with each other or even close to it I don't see them in a vicious circle of anything


I'm not sure I can live through another season or 3 of Tony searching for himself--oughtn't he to have found himself by now? I'm pretty sure I can't take another season or 3 of Tony scratching around the edges of Gibbs's life because he's not allowed to get one of his own, or cringing and posturing for the occasional crumb of praise from Gibbs. Because this is where Tony has been throughout most of this season, and to me it's not much better than where he was before. Shane Brennan never showed Tony acting as foolishly on a case as Tony acted this season over that Russian woman. Brennan never showed Tony bringing the hair from his shower drain TO WORK TO COUNT OUT IN THE SQUADROOM. Sorry, I just had to shout that bit. But even that folderol might be better than the utter lack of interest the writers show in Ziva these days.

As I see it, here's the great thing about a Tony-Ziva relationship: we won't have any more cardboard-cut-out, never-meant-to-stick potential mates wasting our time as murder suspects or actual murderers. Here's another great thing: they could both stop flailing around and start growing up. Is the thought of Tony canoodling with Ziva in his offhours, offscreen so terrible that it would be preferable to see him emptying his shower drain again? Here's another great thing: we wouldn't need further explanation for why Tony, allegedly an adult man and a terrific investigator, is still not a team leader in an agency where EJ, for heaven's sake, was.

If TPTB want to write a straight procedural, fine. But they need to stop gassing about how it's about the characters, unless they're prepared to actually do something with those characters. And if they want to write a straight procedural, they should invest in a white board and do a better job on the plots.

Edited by lizziefitz, May 8, 2012 @ 11:01 PM.

  • 1

#30957

Binks

Binks

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 11:38 PM

I don't think the undercurrent of attraction takes up that much oxygen at all nor so I see a big tease for a will they or won't they. I see two people who are friends who have an attraction but they both have reached a place where it doesn't go further than that. Every once in a while it flair up to a little more but it not much more.

I'm not sure I can live through another season or 3 of Tony searching for himself--oughtn't he to have found himself by now? I'm pretty sure I can't take another season or 3 of Tony scratching around the edges of Gibbs's life because he's not allowed to get one of his own, or cringing and posturing for the occasional crumb of praise from Gibbs.

I think they all are nosy about each other's lives. Not just Tony. It wasn't just Tony at the door when Diane was there. And when Wendy was there Ziva and McGee were right at the door listening in. I don't see how Tony is a stand out in that arena.

I also think Tony has a life of his own. When Jason came around Tony was quite comfortable in his own skin and in the choices he made in his life.

As far as SB he had Tony acting way more foolish than him drooling over the Russian. Like when he got locked up with his own handcuffs watching the Saudi Prince in "Flesh and Blood" or when he blew a simple undercover op with a call girl in "Guilty Pleasure" or when he ran flustered and out of control in a room full of former directors in "Enemies Domestic." Even with Tony drooling over the Russian he did his job and did it well. In fact he was the one who located the assassin after Gibbs kept him back as a way to check him.

And while SB never had Tony bring his hairs to work he had him dress up like Tony Moreno in an ill fitting suit and had him making a fool out of himself on Chat Roulette in front of the whole squadroom or do an embarrassingly bad pirate speech in front of everyone. There have been times when Tony was a bit too silly this season but he was never incompetent like he was under SB and for that I think GG is miles better.

As I see it, here's the great thing about a Tony-Ziva relationship: we won't have any more cardboard-cut-out, never-meant-to-stick potential mates wasting our time as murder suspects or actual murderers. Here's another great thing: they could both stop flailing around and start growing up. Is the thought of Tony canoodling with Ziva in his offhours, offscreen so terrible that it would be preferable to see him emptying his shower drain again? Here's another great thing: we wouldn't need further explanation for why Tony, allegedly an adult man and a terrific investigator, is still not a team leader in an agency where EJ, for heaven's sake, was.

I think they both have grown up. I don't see two people flailing around at all. Tony seems more grounded and happy and sure of himself. Ziva is ready to have that family life. She just had a dud of a guy in Ray. Hopefully someone like Roy comes into her life.

And yes I think the thought of Tony getting involved with ANY woman who has accused him of murder (which Ziva did both to his face and in an official report) would be a MAJOR detriment to his character and show that he has little to no self esteem and all of the growth he has done meant nothing.

I also don't think the choices have to be between shower drain hairs or dating Ziva, There is so much more Tony and Ziva can do as characters that don't involve them in a romance together. We can hear about one or the other taking some sort of class. Or how about hearing about Tony coaching a kids basketball team at Quantico or Ziva teaching a self defense class for deployed Marine wives and the case of the week ties tangentially into one of those activities. I also don't see the issue with any of the team dating people outside of the team.

As far as EJ being team lead and not Tony it made sense to me. He had an offer and turned it down and then went on a long term undercover op. Who knows if one came around again especially since Vance is not particularly a fan of his and since the director was on his watch when she got killed. Besides that I didn't see EJ as incompetent. She was right about the female Madoff. She was no more wrong about Cobbs than Gibbs was. They ALL got played by SecNav, Vance, and Kort. Gibbs big lead about who the killer was (the pilot) was just as much of a dud as EJ's (the rich playboy pre med student).

The only way that case was broken open was because Tony heard here was a British bald man in Hawaii and magically surmised it was Kort which I said at the time was a very implausible and contrived leap of logic.

Finally I think Tony and Ziva being together would raise more questions, not less, on why he doesn't have his own team because there is no way I buy that it is good for team field team members to be involved. I would think if they got involved a choice would have to be made rather quickly that one of them would need to transfer and between the two Tony is the more logical choice.

ETA - I don't think the final arc this year seems at all like last year's. Last year we didn't have the backdrop of a happy event while the Navy was facing a major threat. We had one serial killer targeting a very few people. Here we have a terrorist targeting the whole navy, Last year both Tony and Ziva had their personal lives intertwined with the hunt for the serial killer. The one similarity is the kidnapping but even that is playing different to me since it happened off screen.

Edited by Binks, May 9, 2012 @ 12:00 AM.

  • 0

#30958

catray

catray

    Fanatic

Posted May 8, 2012 @ 11:45 PM

I have to say, I rolled by eyes when Dearing zeroed in on Gibbs during their conversation in ops. Ok, whatever, you hate the Navy, but that doesn't explain why you are fixated on Gibbs. Blergh. Same old, same old. I actually find this arc to be better than last year's, though. We'll see how it ends next week.

Liked the gang teasing Palmer about the bachelor party and then fake party at the end when they were trying to catch Dearing. Gibbs was actually smiling!

I think Ryan needs to lay off a little. Yes, Gibbs is a functional mute but playing mind games isn't going to endear him to you honey.
  • 0

#30959

SterlingMArcher

SterlingMArcher

    Couch Potato

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 12:02 AM

Wait, being extremely desperate and acting like an idiot are considered growing up? Really?

Remember when NCIS was about the team and not about a cavalcade of guest stars? When was that again? I honestly don't remember.

Wake me up from my hate when TPTB grow some balls.
  • 0

#30960

Binks

Binks

    Fanatic

Posted May 9, 2012 @ 12:17 AM

catray, I got why Dearing zeroed in on Gibbs. He was obviously the person in charge. Dearing is a powerful man who didn't want to waste his time so he focused in on the person who was obviously running things. That doesn't seem like personal obsession or fixation but more like okay I am toying with you Navy people and the only person I want to deal with is the HBIC.

SterlingMArcher, I don't see Tony as being extremely desperate or acting like an idiot so yes I think he has grown up. To me the way he acted in "Sins of the Father" where he handled being sidelined with maturity was a sure sign of him growing up. Even when Gibbs gave him a proverbial head slap over him drooling of the Russian woman instead of sulking he took it in stride and did his job. In fact he was the one who found their remote assassin and then helped chase him down. I also think the way he took Jason's anger in stride shows a lot of growth and maturity. Same with the way he was trying to be supportive of Ziva when Ray came back to town. Also even in SA. He could have thrown in Ziva's face that her judgement about her friends are not exactly the best but he didn't do that. He was not afraid to express his POV but he also didn't dredge up the past to make his point. Even last week where as before he was threatened by Stan Burley and his relationship with Gibbs. Now he isn't. He was a little irritated at the flirting with Ziva but nothing out of the ordinary.

As for TPTB growing some balls I just don't agree putting Tony/Ziva together would show courage on their part. I think it would be the opposite of that in fact because it would be more like well we have run out of other ideas so we might as well give this a whirl. In the real world I don't think it would be very likely that two team mates would end up in a relationship without one of them having to leave the field team.

I also saw a lot of team work in this episode with Dornegut being included in some of it.

Edited by Binks, May 9, 2012 @ 12:23 AM.

  • 0