905 replies to this topic

[Fandomania]

I haven't seen this discussed before...but I caught a clip of Dallas earlier this week and from the looks of things, Lucy was having a fling...with RAY!?!?! I know this came before it was revealed that Ray was Jock's son, but did they ever deal with Lucy having had sex with her uncle?!?!

[andcoletar]

No, they never addressed it on the show. In fact, we have been talking about that for awhile here; and until I saw the discussion here on the boards, I didn't remember that they never talked about it. I watched the show when I was very young so I didn't remember many of the plots, storylines, etc. I always just assumed that it was dealt with, but unfortunately, they really dropped the ball with it.

[TheCustomOfLife]

I got really pissed off when J.R. accidentally pushed Pam off the loft in the stables. They always seem to gang up on Pam and Bobby.

[The Last Dodo]

Even though I knew she originated the role, it was still rather bizarre seeing Morgan Fairchild as Jenna. She and the character were just a lot different from how I remember her as being when Priscilla Beaulieu Presley played her.

I have a question--this episode, the question of Charlie's paternity came up and Jenna said Naldo Marchetta was her father. Later on, doesn't her paternity come into question again? If so, who turned out to be the definite father--Bobby or Naldo?

[PostToastie]

If so, who turned out to be the definite father--Bobby or Naldo?

I thought that Naldo turned out to be her definite father. That's why he was able to take her away, but I could be wrong.

People with Soapnet make me cry.

Me too! I want to see Another World and Dallas!

Sue Ellen and Clayton were better

When did this happen? I thought Clayton was always with Miss Ellie and Dusty was with Sue Ellen?

I miss the olden days of TNN airing Dallas 3 times a day, so one airing was definitely at a reasonable hour

Me too! Now that TNN is the "Spike" channel, they probably would never show it, but what about TV land showing it late at night or the Hallmark channel? I've noticed that during the day and the late evening, the only thing that seems to be on is old tv shows!

It's the first time I've seen Lucy as anyone other than a little Kewpie doll.

Being blonde and from Dallas, people always called me "Lucy" while the show was popular. It sucked!

Personally, I'd rather clean all of the toilets in a bus station with my tongue than live with my in-laws.

You and me both!

[celticann]

Personally, I'd rather clean all of the toilets in a bus station with my tongue than live with my in-laws.

You and me both!

Somehow, I think it would be easier in a Southfork-type house, where each bedroom has its own bathroom and you have hired help to handle all the cleaning, laundry etc.

However, I am surprised that the bedrooms aren't suites with a separate sitting room with TV, sofa/chairs, etc.

In the early episodes, don't JR and SueEllen live in some sort of in-law house off the patio?

[The Last Dodo]

In the early episodes, don't JR and SueEllen live in some sort of in-law house off the patio?

It seems like that.

Speaking of which, I really liked Saturday night's rerun with Sue Ellen trying to buy a baby; it really opened up her character. The show's kind of in this weird in-between stage, it seems, where it's not quite a soap yet but not self-contained like the opening "miniseries" episodes either, but I like it.

[mr.simpatico]

Was I the only one who was rooting for Cliff? (even more than good guy Bobby who was annoying as heck) - the way KK played him as such an unattractive (physically) loser who basically doomed to be Digger to JR's Jock - made me think he was such an underdog. Even the love of his life (Ashton or Sue Ellen take your pick) were JR's leftovers. Everytime he succeeded JR just pulled the rug from under him and yet reading the UltimateDallas website's bio of Mr.Barnes I'm reminded that in the end Digger's son did best Jock's - He had control of Ewing Oil and JR had nothing and in the end sold out (to Bobby no less) just for a chance for happiness with Ashton and daughter - meanwhile JR was still up to his machinations. Quite a character arc for both when you think about it. Though the only good part of the "dream" season for me was that Cliff and Jamie got to be a happy couple and things actually were going right for them until Bobby got out of that shower.

[Dallas Fan]

It's Afton. Funny on RTS (Dallas fanfic) her enemies called character Ashton to piss her off.

In Mini-series was used another ranch.

[TudorQueen]

Clayton fell in love with Sue Ellen early on, but she rejected him gracefully and he later fell in love with Miss Ellie and that, as we all know, worked out rather better for him. I didn't mind him falling in love with her, but it bothered me that she acted as if she'd never really loved Jock - that it had been Digger originally, and Clayton later, but that Jock was more 'the appropriate match' than someone she loved.

Oh, and count me in among the Cliff Barnes fans. I always wanted him to find happiness... one of the highlights of the last actual episode - where Joel Grey shows JR what life in Dallas would have been if he had never been born - was that Cliff was happily married with terrific kids, and Vice President of the United States - that is, until he's notified that the top guy is dead and JR watches as his 'loser' nemesis becomes President!

[ER-Girl]

it bothered me that she acted as if she'd never really loved Jock - that it had been Digger originally, and Clayton later, but that Jock was more 'the appropriate match' than someone she loved. - TudorQueen

I never watched the show when it aired in prime time years ago, so I'm just discovering it now that we have Soapnet. Is your impression of Miss Ellie never having loved Jock based on something that happens in later seasons? Because since I've started watching it (right around the "who shot JR" episodes), throughout all the Jock-is-missing-but-he-can't-be-dead season, and now that she's with Clayton, Miss Ellie has made Jock out to be the true love of her life. Perhaps it was a marriage of convenience in the beginning, but she's been practically worshipful of Jock since his disappearance in South America.

[Azalea]

Though the only good part of the "dream" season for me was that Cliff and Jamie got to be a happy couple and things actually were going right for them until Bobby got out of that shower.

This part puzzles me--exactly when does the Dream Season start? Which of the story lines and characters are part of the Dream Season only?

The current story line brings in so many new characters--Mandy and Jamie were introduced in back to back episodes. I suppose the show did need change. At least Peter (who could not act) left. Of all the improbable plots, that may have been the stupidest.

[KerleyQ]

I know I saw that Miss Ellie and Clayton return to Southfork on one of the episodes this week. Is this when we get Donna Reed as Miss Ellie? I remember it happening when the show first ran, but can't, for the life of me, remember when. I'm assuming it's now, since I notice BBG is not in the credits of the current season. And how long did the Donna Reed period last? Was it just the remainder of the season? I don't think I ever got used to her being Ellie. I was probably all of 12 years old at the time, and it just didn't seem right to me.

As for the dream season, if I'm not mistaken, I believe it's the season after the one that just started. The only SL's I can remember being a part of the dream season are Pam discovering Mark is still alive and I believe Donna gets pregnant and they find the child might have Downs Syndrome.

[AimsRos]

Yep. This is the Donna Reed season, but she doesn't appear until a few episodes into the season. Barbara Bel Geddes returned to the role the following year, which was also the dream season.

I was about 10 when at the time, and I always loved to spend the night at my friend's house across the street because her parents let her watch Dallas, unlike my own. All I wanted to do was watch. Now, many years later, in my own home, I can do just that!

[Sparafucile]

The only SL's I can remember being a part of the dream season are Pam discovering Mark is still alive and I believe Donna gets pregnant and they find the child might have Downs Syndrome.

Correct on both counts. She and Raaaaaaaaaaaay wrestle over whether to abort, give up for adoption, or keep the child, and ultimately decide to keep. But then she miscarries when she gets knocked over by a bull. By then, they're so into the idea of raising a Down's child that they attempt to adopt an adolescent boy.

Other dream-season stories:

- All the Marinos Shipping/Ewing Oil intrigue with Barbara Carrera as Angelica Nero (she of the very cool gigantic lizard hatpin), which ties in somehow with Jack's striking resemblance to a dead shipping magnate, and an attempt to pass Jack off as that man at a masquerade ball. Larry Hagman particularly hated all of this, and it was controversial with the fans. I liked Carrera's villainness, though. She could be genuinely frightening without ever even raising her voice.

- Jenna's post-Bobby's-death mental breakdown, and her ultimate acceptance that Pam was the one he really loved. This climaxes in a good verbal showdown between Pam and Psycho Jenny at Southfork.

- All that South American emerald mine crap featuring the guy from V and Beastmaster. Pam gets kidnapped and is missing for an episode or two, presumably to cover Victoria's ill-advised cosmetic surgery. She comes back with a completely different nose.

- Sue Ellen hitting rock bottom, living on the streets, ultimately rehabbing, becoming a stronger person, having a brief fling with a "good" man (Mark's doctor friend in this case), and then falling in love again with JR. I know that it seems some variation of this story is in every other season, but it was really well-done in the dream season -- Sue Ellen's "homeless" scenes were harrowing -- and I was sorry to see it flushed. The version they do in the following season (because of course they have to start out with her as a drunk again) is abysmal. She basically just says, "I know that I have to stop drinking," and that's that.

- Pam assuming Bobby's position at Ewing Oil, and alternately battling and working in tandem with JR. (Some of this was also really good.)

- The beginning of the "new ranch hand who may or may not be a resurrected Jock Ewing" saga, which they simply begin all over again with the same actor under a different character name (in one season he's "Ben Stivers" and in the other he's "Wes Parmalee"). So, weirdly, Pam dreams about something that happens at Southfork later, but never says, "Gosh, that's so strange -- I dreamed about that guy!"

The dream season gets a lot of guff, and some of it is deserved, but I've never thought it was as bad as the last few seasons which are "canon." For me, anything from Fall 1987 on (all the nonsense with George Kennedy and his trashy kids, April and her sister, JR's 20-year-old son, Barbara Eden, Susan Lucci, Callie, etc.) is dispensable -- an embarrassingly irrelevant show hanging around long past its sell-by date.

Edited by Sparafucile, Apr 26, 2004 @ 7:54 PM.

[KerleyQ]

Thank you! I totall forgot about Sue Ellen's story and how pissed off I was when her entire arc from the dream season was just trashed. That was such an awesome, strong version of her, and it was just gone.

And I now remember that, even as a youngster, I was annoyed as hell by the Donna Reed era. Who on earth advised her to play Miss Ellie as if she's always got some sinister plan running in the back of her head?? This? Is not Miss Ellie.

For me, anything from Fall 1987 on (all the nonsense with George Kennedy and his trashy kids, April and her sister, JR's 20-year-old son, Barbara Eden, Susan Lucci, Callie, etc.) is dispensable -- an embarrassingly irrelevant show hanging around long past its sell-by date.

I loved Bobby and April. The rest of that stuff, though? Blech. I used to cringe everytime I saw George Kennedy show up in an ep.

Am I imagining things, or do Jenna and Ray end up together at some point during the show's run? I have to say, if you were going to go for one of Jock's boys--that was the way to go.

[Scrumtrelescent]

The cliffhanger end of Dream Season also has both Sue Ellen and Jamie blown up in separate explosions - before Pam wakes up. I guess that Jamie's return was the price we had to pay for retaining Sue Ellen.

[Sparafucile]

Yeah, Jenna and Ray -- having gotten the short end with Bobby and Donna, respectively -- end up together in the first post-dream season.

I never liked the Donna Reed Miss Ellie either (did anyone?). Recasts who follow popular and/or great actors (Bel Geddes was both) are always in a tough spot, and I'm all for being bold and attempting to make a role your own instead of just aping what's been done, but she went too far too fast in trying to reshape Miss Ellie as her idea of a glamorous Texas matriarch. I always just thought she was doing Nancy Reagan with a twang (this was at the height of the Reagan era, and if I'm not mistaken, DR was a rock-ribbed Republican, so I'm sure that was a large part of her inspiration). It was also extremely bad strategy on her part to openly diss BBG's Ellie as a common-looking frump.

However, I did gain some sympathy for Reed when I watched one of those E! True Story-type things (can't remember if the subject was her life or the series), and heard about the miserable time she had on the set almost from the first day: cold shoulders and rudeness from some of the cast; feeling undermined and even sabotaged by crew, especially the lighting people. According to her husband, she was coming home in tears nearly every day, and considering that she was a Hollywood vet as well as, by most accounts, a tough lady, that makes me think it must have been a dismal working situation, and might have contributed to her extreme stiffness. I mean, it's not as though she herself was a villain in the picture, and had shoved BBG out of the show in some geriatric All About Eve situation -- BBG had to opt out, and the show had come to her. I believe she was also in the early stages of her illness at this time (it's ironic that she got the gig because of BBG's failing health, and yet she was dead within a couple of years and BBG is still around).

So, I'm kind of ambivalent -- I'm glad they got BBG back, but also glad Reed soaked the producers for millions.

I read that if the 1985-86 season had not been nullified as Pam's dream, and if the writers had decided to go with some other way of getting Bobby out of the ground that preserved the continuity, the plan was to have Sue Ellen survive the bomb Angelica had set off at Ewing Oil, but be blind (at least, for a while).

[AimsRos]

she went too far too fast in trying to reshape Miss Ellie as her idea of a glamorous Texas matriarch.

That was the first place DR went wrong. Miss Ellie was many things, but glamorous she was not. BBG's Miss Ellie was a warm woman, who was unaffected by the amount of money in her bank account. Miss Ellie, as played by BBG, always seemed like someone I could or would want to know. DR's Miss Ellie seemed way too harsh.

Even if the conditions on set were not great between DR and the rest of the company, it should not have bled over to her performance. ACT like everything off-stage is fine. That is the job of an actor.

[dustylil]

I agree that Donna Reed was rather bizarre as Miss Ellie. Although I doubt she was channelling Nancy Reagan in her performance. Ms. Reed was a prominent anti-Vietnam war and anti-nuclear activist in Hollywood in the sixties and seventies.

[Sparafucile]

Oops. If I did, indeed, mischaracterize the late DR's politics, I apologize. It's likely I just remembered her as being politically outspoken, got a "Nancy-ish" vibe from her icy, designer-gown-sporting Ellie, thought about the year [1984], and did a 2 + 2 = 5.

[The Last Dodo]

OK, so my soap worlds collided in last night's Dysfunctional episode. I was like, "Mary! What would Johnny and Maeve say?"

Although now I'm confused. If Ray supposedly just showed up at the ranch looking for work when he was 15 after drifting around for years, did Jock know he was his son then? How was this explained later?

[KerleyQ]

Although now I'm confused. If Ray supposedly just showed up at the ranch looking for work when he was 15 after drifting around for years, did Jock know he was his son then? How was this explained later?

It more than likely was never the original plan that Ray was Jock's son (let's hope not, considering the Ray/Lucy fling). So, to a certain extent, you have to create your own backstory there. I figure Ray turned up at Southfork because he may have heard his mother mention Jock at some point or another, and figured their being acquainted would help him get work there. The wya it plays out on the show from there is that Jock didn't know he was his son until Ray's "father" showed up in town. He went to Jock with this information, looking for money. Jock paid him off to leave town, and then he told Ray himself, giving him the option as to how well known he wanted this information to be.

[TheCustomOfLife]

OK, so my soap worlds collided in last night's Dysfunctional episode. I was like, "Mary! What would Johnny and Maeve say?"

I pictured her as Janeway. I can't picture anyone on Ryan's Hope without Maeve's sheep voice resonating through my eardrums. Ma-a-a-a-a-a-ry!

[Dana Girl]

OK, so my soap worlds collided in last night's Dysfunctional episode. I was like, "Mary! What would Johnny and Maeve say?"

That ep always has me going ahh! mary, no! And then I ponder if Ray and Jack fought, who would win? And aren't there lots of parallels between Ray and Jack?

Hey, I liked DR's Miss Ellie. I like that she didn't try to BBG's Miss Ellie (whom I also always loved). She really tried to make the role uniquely her own. I also could see with her Miss Ellie how her sons turned out the way they did, in a different way than I could with BBG's Ellie.

[emdroberts]

It more than likely was never the original plan that Ray was Jock's son (let's hope not, considering the Ray/Lucy fling).

It wasn’t the original plan but Larry Hagman came up with it early on, I think around the first full season. The reason they waited so long to do it was because of the Ray/Lucy fling. They wanted to give the audience plenty of time to forget about it.

[AimsRos]

It more than likely was never the original plan that Ray was Jock's son (let's hope not, considering the Ray/Lucy fling).

When Steve Kanaly was thinking of leaving Dallas, Larry Hagman came up with the idea of making Ray Jock's son in order to keep him on the show.

[PostToastie]

I loved Bobby and April.

I thought Bobby & Pam were the best, but Bobby & April were pretty good. I don't have SoapNet (stupid Comcast!) but I do remember the end of their storyline being that April was kidnapped in Europe. What was that about? Why was she kidnapped? Didn't she get killed? What happened after that? The only thing I remember after that was the horrible "Wonderful Life" reunion movie.

Am I correct in remembering that when April & Bobby were getting together, he saw someone who we were supposed to think was Pam? Was it Pam? If so, why did he end up with April and if not, who was she?

[JoeyTango]

Does anyone know if the dvd releases are going to have the uncut episodes?

Am I correct in remembering that when April & Bobby were getting together, he saw someone who we were supposed to think was Pam? Was it Pam? If so, why did he end up with April and if not, who was she?

It wasn't Pam..it was a woman who looked amazingly like her. They did some kind of lame writing to gloss it over and make people remember what a great actress VP was, and then they dropped it. Bobby ended up with April largely because she was the only female character on the cast that was available at the time, and the writers toned her down from being JR's girlfriend to someone more Bobby's speed.

It doesn't really matter, though, because after about 88, the seasons were getting worse and worse.

Edited by JoeyTango, May 6, 2004 @ 9:46 PM.

[ghertigirl]

does anyone else see the resemblance between a young larry hagman and joshua jackson (aka pacey) or is it just me?