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#2851

applecrisp

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Posted Mar 29, 2014 @ 5:01 PM

UsernameFatigue, the blood evidence did turn out to be from the previous autopsy.  That really made the police look bad.  In the beginning, I agree it seemed another case of accusing the ex-husband and I was doing things as I watched it.  But towards the end the evidence piled up and his character was not sterling at all.  No matter how high-acheiving his family was.

 

Only needed to be one hour, but this case had a lot of twists and turns.  The trial was stopped 2 times, once because the judge had a brain tumor.  Stopped again because his lawyers were unhappy with him about  tampering with evidence.  Did anyone else watch this?  I can't remember everything.  I do think the daughters wanted their inheritance to go to their father's defence though.  Really felt bad for them.  Also, he was held in jail for 5 years.  No bail because he was being charged with the death penalty and that was dropped.  I guess it was a pretty good case.


Edited by applecrisp, Mar 29, 2014 @ 5:08 PM.

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#2852

Trainwreck jm

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Posted Mar 29, 2014 @ 5:04 PM

Anyone who missed it can watch the full episode here: http://www.nbcnews.c...dle-path-n66806

 

- The mystery DNA under Carol's fingernails turned out to be from the body that was examined right before her. The coroner or whoever did shoddy work.

 

-  Examination of Steve's (the ex-husband) computer showed that in the month prior to Carol's murder he'd done Google searches for "How to kill and make it look like suicide" and "how to make a homicide appear a suicide." (note: I think Steve was in jail when Jim Knapp shot himself.)

 

- Steve was spending more than he made and was borrowing money from his parents. His alimony payment to Carol was due on the 1st of the month but hadn't been paid when she was killed on the 2nd. Prosecutors showed texts between the two of them where Steve complained about his financial situation:

 

 

Many of those he showed suggested that DeMocker was in serious financial trouble and couldn't pay Kennedy the court-mandated $6,000 a month in spousal support.


"I'm overwhelmed by the 500,000 of debt I'm left with &THE FACT THAT I DON'T HAVE A JOB THAT PAYS ME enough to live on, let alone pay off the debt," one from November 2007 read.



In March, he sent Kennedy a text that said, "All of my bills are late. My bank account will be overdrawn tonight."



The day of the murder, he texted her about an email concerning a "pile of money" they owed each other.



Defense attorney Greg Parzych said those texts did not show the whole picture. Holding up a thick stack of papers, Parzych asked Hoover, "The ones we saw were just picked from hundreds of texts?"



"Probably," he replied.

 

Parzych then put others on the screen. They were polite, civil, and did not address finances.

 

 

- Medical examiners believe Carol was killed with a golf club by left-handed assailant. Steve was missing a golf club and was left-handed. The daughters boyfriend said that Steve found the golf club sock after the police came asking for it and wondered if he should give it to the prosecutors or to his attorney. The prosecution said that this implied that Steve knew the sock could incriminate him. 

 

 


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#2853

applecrisp

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Posted Mar 29, 2014 @ 5:19 PM

So Knapp was shot?  Carol was killed with the golf club and not shot, am I correct?


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#2854

rory

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Posted Mar 29, 2014 @ 5:36 PM

I'm 100% convinced the husband was guilty. First he disappeared for five hours the night of the murder, had scratches all over his hands and legs and refused to go with his daughter and boyfriend to look for his ex. The insurance money was super shady. I'm okay with the daughters spending their money on his defense but they were very sneaky about it. The fact that the husband dictated the fake anonymous letter to the prosecutor accusing the tenant, what innocent person does such a thing? He had more than one run kit ready with hair dye make up and books on how to live on the run. I have no doubt it was the right verdict.
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#2855

UsernameFatigue

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Posted Mar 29, 2014 @ 8:58 PM

Wow, with the posts on this page filling in some of the stuff I missed when my TV went MIA, I don't have a doubt that he did it. (And thanks applecrisp!) Not to mention what a scum of a father - he sends his daughter to her mother's house the night of the murder knowing she will find her mother dead. From what I remember they didn't even know the cops had been called, so he left her to walk in and find her mother murdered?

 

And even if the daughters wanted to pay for their father's defense, he could have and should have refused. That is the only inheritance they will ever get from a parent, since even if he gets out of jail (or was never convicted) he obviously had no money management skills. It was annoying that they kept saying what an accomplished family he was from. Book smart does not equal smart in real life - and he obviously wasn't.


Edited by UsernameFatigue, Mar 30, 2014 @ 7:38 PM.

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#2856

ZaldamoWilder

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Posted Mar 31, 2014 @ 12:43 PM

I'm sure the jury had a whole lot more to look at than we did, but I'd find it hard to convict him.  I really can believe that he planned an escape because he was terrified about being the only suspect.  The lack of his DNA at the scene bothered me too.  I'd think if he walked in on her and she was talking to her mom, she'd say his name?  Too many circumstantial theories for me with lack of concrete evidence.

 

 

Thank you.   This is actually what bothers me more than any other thing.   It was a violent and bloody scene.  There are scratch marks on him and there’s dna underneath her fingernails but it’s not his.    As pointed out upthread, it's the dna matching the medical examiner's last autopsy.  Um, what? I’m sorry if the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt this guy should not be in jail.   One of the medical experts whose research is going to be relied upon isn’t bothered enough to sterilize instruments from one death to the next?   And somehow proven contamination doesn't establish the shoddy investigation tactics of this whole case? 

 

I want to know why "highly educated family of professionals" seemed to be the buzzword of the evening.

 

 

Ugh.  Most pointless editorial of all time.  Because degreed people don’t do stupid shit?   Like hide getaway bags in the desert or make up anonymous emails proving their innocence? 

 

I had a lot of distractions last night while watching the Carol Kennedy episode, so I may have missed something ... but did they ever explain who killed her boarder?  He seemed to have been killed in the same way that she was.  I thought that was meaningful, but I never saw them tie up that loose end.

 

 

The police concluded that it was suicide staged to look like homicide.  No note.

 

I'm sure the jury had a whole lot more to look at than we did, but I'd find it hard to convict him.  I really can believe that he planned an escape because he was terrified about being the only suspect.  The lack of his DNA at the scene bothered me too.  I'd think if he walked in on her and she was talking to her mom, she'd say his name?  Too many circumstantial theories for me with lack of concrete evidence

 

 

YES! Celina. She was on the phone with her mother when, presumably, her killer walked in.   If it’s your pain in the ass ex husband, wouldn't the most natural thing to say be some version of:  Crap, Steve’s here, mom I’ll call you back or,  how’d you get in here?  or something, anything that indicates familiarity even if you don’t use his name?   But Carol's mom describes a foreboding oh no.    She was clubbed to death but there's not a hair, an eyelash, a thumbprint, an anything that places Steven in that house.    Actually there's a bloody print at the scene that matches neither Steve's, nor Jim Knapp's dna.  

 

Did they give a motive as to why they thought the ex- husband killed his ex-wife?

 

 

Yeah they said the 5-6 grand per month that she was likely to receive in their divorce settlement pressed him into desperation because he didn’t want to give up their lifestyle.

 

From what I remember they didn't even know the cops had been called, so he left her to walk in and find her mother murdered?

 

 

No, the daughter goes to the house after realizing it had been hours since she’d texted Carol and hadn’t received an answer.  She and her boyfriend find patrol cars already at the house.   

 

I agree that on paper, he wasn't exactly a model citizen and he did a lot of stupid stuff along the way to circumstantially incriminate himself but being an asshole doesn't make you a murderer.  For this one to rise to the level of beyond a doubt was just wrong. 


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#2857

applecrisp

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Posted Apr 5, 2014 @ 9:04 AM

Last night's episode was quite good and I thought Keith M. was good for a change.  


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#2858

walnutqueen

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Posted Apr 5, 2014 @ 9:47 AM

Last night's episode was quite good and I thought Keith M. was good for a change.

 

 

Finally, a story I haven't seen on a dozen other shows. 

 

Of course, they were promoting their Dateline: Saturday Night Mysteries and tonight's episode is The Girl With the Blue Mustang.  I could do the whole show from memory.


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#2859

Ohmo

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Posted Apr 10, 2014 @ 3:34 PM

I think, of all the cases I've ever seen on Dateline and shows like it, the Barry Beach case is one of the most infuriating to me.  The confession is bogus.  There's testimony from several people that were told about (or actually heard) that group of girls committing the murder.  Barry should not be in jail for this crime, never mind returned to jail!

 


Barry Beach Granted Hearing on Clemency Request


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#2860

applecrisp

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Posted Apr 11, 2014 @ 4:34 PM

Ohmo, just saw the case.  The Louisiana cops dispicable.  He does have people behind him who will fight.  That is some solace.


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#2861

walnutqueen

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Posted Apr 13, 2014 @ 4:06 AM

Dateline: Saturday Night Mysteries was another 2 hours I could have recited in my sleep - "The Secret".  Do they really think there's anyone left in America who wants to watch these shows again?


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#2862

applecrisp

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Posted Apr 13, 2014 @ 8:38 AM

I know old stories.  There are so many crimes out there, cover them.  48 Hours is the same.  I want updates on stories but not so many repeats.  Maybe every so often have an update show.  I watch true crime shows, but I don't always read about them.  I don't watch Nancy Grace either.  Oh and 2 hours is usually too much time.


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#2863

Queena

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Posted Apr 13, 2014 @ 5:45 PM

2 hours is way too much time. By the 2nd hour, I got tired of them dragging it on for so long that I used Google.
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#2864

jenkait

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Posted Apr 18, 2014 @ 9:15 PM

"Two Shots Fired".  That guy...so guilty.


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#2865

JudyObscure

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Posted Yesterday, 06:10 AM


"Two Shots Fired," kept me wondering. I could imagine her hands flying away after she shot herself and the gun falling to the left side (even though she was right handed) but why would a suicide fire a first shot?

I was surprised at how absolutely positive her family was that she would never kill herself, when they knew she had a history of depression plus she had been drunk at the time. Then again, I was surprised at her brother who was so sure she did do it he would become friends with the man who might have killed her.
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#2866

Luckylyn

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Posted Yesterday, 07:32 AM

I saw this case on Frontline too and that show did a better job of showing the level of incompetence in the investigation.  I don't get the impression that there was a purposeful coverup, but I do think snap judgements were made from the beginning because they knew the potential perpetrator.  They really did a crap investigation.  The never interviewed neighbors to find out if anyone heard anything.  They didn't bother speaking with friends and family of the victim to get clarity on her mental state or the relationship with the officer.  There's no mention of whether or not they did a gun powder residue test on the victim.  From the beginning, they acted like  his word was enough and that they didn't need to bother thoroughly investigating what happened.  They come off as if they think they are being persecuted by the family while ignoring the fact that the whole reason there's ambiguity in this case is that the investigation was not done in the appropriate manor.  Frontline talked about the lack of protocol in his initial interview and how it happened with the chief insisting on being there making a point to show whose side he was on.  Also, it explored more the cut in over her eye, and the defense and family's theories on how it happened.  I don't like the idea that a person can go through depression years in their past and that means the police feel that don't have to thoroughly exam how they died in the present.  They should consider her history of course, but they also needed to look at the overall picture including the boyfriend.  All they had to do was treat the officer the same way they would treat a boyfriend they didn't know, and there would be more clarity in the case.  His word shouldn't have been treated as Gospel and some effort to objectively look into the situation should have happened.  For me, if this man is innocent his friends did him a major disservice not thoroughly looking into the matter with appropriate procedure.  I think he's guilty because the gun was by the wrong hand, there were two shots, and it didn't make sense that his fingerprints weren't on his own gun.  It comes off like he wiped the gun and put it in the wrong hand in a panic to cover things up. 


Edited by Luckylyn, Yesterday, 07:35 AM.

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#2867

canaanite2

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Posted Yesterday, 09:47 AM

Whether the BF was guilty or not, her brother is a piece of shit for being his friend, and a GOOD friend at that. Sick! This man was abusive to his sister. That alone should make him not want to have anything to do with him. He wanted his job back. I noticed his slip when he said he lost his life, and then quickly corrected to "I lost my job." It's not like he consciously set out to get his job back by stating he believed his sister killed herself. I think he pored over the evidence and unconsciously forced himself to believe that in order to get his "life" back. Going as far as becoming good friends with his sister's killer was like a self-rationalization to make himself feel better about the whole thing. 


Edited by canaanite2, Yesterday, 09:48 AM.

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#2868

Unknown

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Posted Yesterday, 10:54 AM

Scott O'Connell has filed a lawsuit against Rusty Rodgers, claiming that Rodgers gave him false information, amongst other things. Here's a link to an article about the lawsuit: http://www.news4jax....-death/25428730. And here is the link to the lawsuit (in PDF form): http://www.news4jax.com/blob/view/-/25431904/data/1/-/vfjnh6z/-/Lawsuit-filed-by-Michelle-O-Connell-s-brother.pdf. I do agree that the St. John's Sheriff's Office did a lousy job investigating this but, if even half of Scott's claims are true, Rodgers is also in the wrong, IMO. If it was a murder, remember this: Scott introduced Michelle and Jeremy. Another reason Scott might have forced himself to accept that it was a suicide was, if Michelle was murdered by the person Scott introduced Michelle to, how does that reflect on Scott's character? It could have been a suicide, given that Michelle was drunk and depressed over the breakup. Either way, a family is still suffering the loss of their daughter
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#2869

walnutqueen

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Posted Yesterday, 03:37 PM

This is a problematic case for me in many ways.  I think the investigation has been tainted; but I fail to see any clear resolution.  My initial instinct would be to assume the husband is guilty, and my prejudice against police corruption is keen; yet I couldn't convict him based on the "evidence" presented herein.  I kept watching the officer answering questions - he had a very direct and unwavering gaze, which may have interfered with my normal snap judgement style; I had some momentary doubts myself about his guilt.  

 

On a side note, no matter how frustrating it may be for the family of a victim, and how tempting it may be for a cop to empathize and share information with them, it is usually not a good idea to reveal details of an ongoing investigation to anyone outside law enforcement.


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#2870

RedheadZombie

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Posted Yesterday, 08:18 PM

 

I kept watching the officer answering questions - he had a very direct and unwavering gaze, which may have interfered with my normal snap judgement style; I had some momentary doubts myself about his guilt.

 

He did, but in a series of questions requiring yes or no answers - Did you kill her, Did you hurt her, etc - he blinked as he said no.  Every time.  It seemed like a lying tell to me. It reminded me of lying people who say no as they nod yes.

 

When the brother said he now believed it was suicide, I thought to myself - they told him if he publicly backs them up, they won't charge him with the so-called bomb threat.  Then they revealed he got his job back.  Not a coincidence in my mind.

 

Try opening your mouth wide enough to fit a gun inside.  Then attempt to lift your tongue to the roof of your mouth.  It's uncomfortable, and there's no reason why her tongue would have been in that position when the gun went off.


Edited by RedheadZombie, Yesterday, 08:20 PM.

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#2871

iluvtv313

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Posted Yesterday, 10:28 PM

I thought the boyfriend cop killed her all along until the sisters and brother mentioned the text messages they got from her.  And the big hug she gave her brother the night she died, all seemed rather foreboding.  Sounded like she was saying goodbye, and to make sure her daughter was taken care of.  But why she said "I'll be right home" as her last message, I have no idea.  

 

These particular cases are so frustrating, because if he killed her, he got away with murder.  If she really did kill herself, he will probably have a suspicion of guilt around him his whole life.  And only he knows the truth.  


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#2872

canaanite2

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Posted Today, 10:24 AM

Those texts can also be interpreted as being from a woman who was in a volatile relationship who knew she was leaving a man who might hurt her before she got the chance. An abusive relationship was alluded to but not elaborated on. Her own family might not have even know how bad things really were behind closed doors. How did she get that cut above her eye? That's a cut typically seen in boxing matches. If those texts were about fearing her life being taken rather than her planning to take her own life, the logical question would be, why not have someone with her as she packed and left or wait until her BF was at work? But if this was an abusive relationship, all logic goes out the window. I hope this guy's current wife is okay. 


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#2873

Luckylyn

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Posted Today, 11:32 AM

 

These particular cases are so frustrating, because if he killed her, he got away with murder.  If she really did kill herself, he will probably have a suspicion of guilt around him his whole life.

 

That's what makes the crappiness of the investigation such a travesty.  If he's guilty, the police helped him get away with murder.  If he's innocent, their poor investigation means there will be people always wondering about his guilt for the rest of his life.  They didn't help him but instead hurt him more by not making the effort to do the investigation properly.  There close relationship to him meant they had to be even more above board and thorough with the investigation not less.


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