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#31

jase-bot

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:28 PM

It was Ivan Kipling.
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#32

idledandy

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:30 PM

I'm so glad I'm not alone in my feelings about Todd and Kevin! I'm also so glad TWoP is such a friendly place!

I, too, think Dan Gauthier is scrumptious (and so is Trevor St. John, for that matter.) After eight or ten actors, they finally found a cute Kevin.

It would be lovely if the MBK offed the Jenbot. The only Rappaport I ever cared for was Lindsay (Will had Hotbutboring Disease, a common affliction on ABC Daytime.) I just don't want him to kill Natalie, even though I can imagine the tortured anguish of McBain cradling her lifeless body, after which Hufflepout would use his despair to lure him into their world of kinky sex games.

Holy gozer, you people have been posting a lot!


Holy gozer! HA!

Edited by idledandy, Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:35 PM.

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#33

WTHL

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:31 PM

Jase and ncgal

Thanks for the info!

Edited by WTHL, Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:34 PM.

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#34

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:39 PM

I, too, think Dan Gauthier is scrumptious (and so is Trevor St. John, for that matter.) After eight or ten actors, they finally found a cute Kevin.


I loved Kirk Geiger, but that was aeons ago. ITA.

It would be lovely if the MBK offed the Jenbot.


Wouldn't it, though?

The only Rappaport I ever cared for was Lindsay (Will had Hotbutboring Disease, a common affliction on ABC Daytime.)


Likewise, Lindsey was the only one I ever loved. Will, however, I detested on a level only Kevin had previously reached. Not only does he embezzle from his dead baby and use some of that money to keep Jessica's ex out of town (but only because he, like, really really wuvs her that much - Todd couldn't send him off to Ireland fast enough for me) , but then he turns into a verbally abusive monster when he finally got Jess. Every episode he and Jess were on eventually became "Jase's Domestic Abusewatch." I seriously spent episode after episode convinced he would hit her during the Colin mystery.

Speaking of abuse, I can totally understand why some people unrelentingly hate Todd, or T&B. And I won't say they don't have good, strong points, or that I would ever condone a person or couple like this IRL. I will, however, say that I'd love the character with or without Blair...I just happen to like them anyway. But I don't give him a free pass. When it comes to what he's done of late, I side with Blair.

Edited by jase-bot, Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:56 PM.

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#35

jenmarie

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:48 PM

Mainly I love TSJ, and I really wouldn't care what character he was playing, because I adore him.

I only started watching the show everyday about a year ago. I had seen RH's Todd before, I didn't care for him because frankly I don't like RH. I was against Walker being Todd. I did not want TSJ to become a character I would dislike, but TSJ sold me on his Todd.

I love the Blair and Todd relationship. I love that it's not just Todd as the male jerk and Blair as the perfect female putting up with him, like so many soap couples are. I love that they're both equally fucked up.

I don't hate Kevin with the same passion others do, because at times I feel bad for him. I just hate him so much anytime he gets near Blair.

ETA: I used to despise Lindsay, but damn I've grown to love her so much.

Edited by jenmarie, Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:53 PM.

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#36

idledandy

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:52 PM

Will, however, I detested on a level only Kevin had previously reached. Not only does he embezzle from his dead baby and use some of that money to keep Jessica's ex out of town (but only because he, like, really really wuvs her that much - Todd couldn't send him off to Ireland fast enough for me) , but then he turns into a verbally abusive monster when he finally got Jess.


Wow, I missed a lot! I thought he was framed for the embezzlement, but that's because I was only watching casually at that point. The Nora/Colin/Lindsay thing was the SL that really brought me back into the fold.

[SPEC]Speaking of Colin, I think he's alive, and I think he's the MBK, and I think he's framing Troy. Hence the scarlet fabric used in the stranglings.[/SPEC]
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#37

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 7:55 PM

[SPEC]Speaking of Colin, I think he's alive, and I think he's the MBK, and I think he's framing Troy. Hence the scarlet fabric used in the stranglings.[/SPEC]


Is scarlet significant to Colin? I missed all the Colin stuff. That would be cool if he were setting up Troy.
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#38

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:04 PM

Yet people on this board lurrrve Todd and hate Kevin.


Oh, please, I think they're both dispicable, with Todd falling closer to Hell for his sins, of course. They're both characters who've done awful, heartless things (yes, even Kevin), even if they haven't done the same awful, heartless things. Kevin has always been so smug and high and mighty that I've never cared for him, especially as he's being a raging beacon of infidelity. And Todd? I've never liked the character since the day he led Marty's gang-rape. Since then, he's really done one irredeemable thing after another, and when he does show humanity, he usually quickly follows it up by commiting some other kind of horrendous crime.

That being said, I don't have to like or love a character for them to entertain me, and both DG and TSJ have proven to be entertaining, capable performers. They're just not capable of making me like their characters, though. :)

I liked Blair and Walker, but now that it's Blair and Todd, it's just sick, twisted, and a slight variation of all the other shit they've thrown at each other over the years. Whatever way they go with things, I just hope they make it interesting because I don't give a flying fig about them except how horribly they are affecting Starr, and probably Jack.

And I like Kelly. I know that's still a minority opinion around here, and I know she's a little loca, but at least we haven't seen her flip out in a few years.
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#39

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:05 PM

'Scarlett' is intensely significant to Colin. Scarlett was his name for Nora. Back in that era, JFP loved to have all her horrible men give their women cutesy nicknames. But I think Colin is very dead.

And oh yes, Will most certainly did embezzle from the Megan Foundation. Asa did most of the moving of the huge amounts, but Will started it, and did it himself. The show didn't want you to remember that, though. It wanted you to side with "that poor kid." The show then was very Rappa-centric. And even when I hated Lindsey (like in Feb 2000 when Nora crashed her wedding) I loved her. I loved Cat Hickland. Always will.

Re:Todd, I've been there from almost the beginning (just post-Marty's rape) and I hated Todd intensely when I started watching, was utterly repulsed by him, but he fascinated me, particularly in those really hardcore scenes with Susan Haskell. As with just about everyone who likes the character, it was the writing and RH's amazing work that broke through and made me care for him. I was hooked on the Tabernacle, on the Hospital Rapist SL, on all that. Thought it was a step down when they ditched Rebecca for Blair, as Blair was not a favorite at the time at all (I hated what she'd done to Max/Luna) . But their relationship made me really fall in love with her, and in years since I've come to realize I'd prefer her as an individual entity as well, one that didn't rely on Todd for story - and this regime has made that happen for me, off and on.

And just to clarify about before, I don't think Kevin is a horrible person by nature or nothing can be done with him or anything like that - he is a core child, and I respect that a lot. He was Viki's firstborn, at least onscreen and according the original continuity. As such I highly doubt they'd ever let him be totally evil or whatever. And I think, at least from my biased viewpoint, that Kevin has been and can again be a good man - we've talked a lot here about 'what does Kevin really want out of his life,' etc etc, and that's been thanks to DG and the writers. I seriously doubt we'd be fretting so much about Kevin and what he can do to better himself if he was still Tim Gibbs slutting around and calling it heroics. I think what Kevin really needs is to get out of his grandfather's house, to get out of his political/wealthy trappings, and get out on the street doing something with his own life for once - and not what everyone expects of him. This has particularly been a running theme since DG took over. Kevin lost himself a long time ago, and he needs to figure himself out again. I do like morally gray Kevin. I think there's a lot to the current character and the politics, and making Kevin the heel, etc. But get him a new perspective and paradigm, a new story, and a new love interest who he stays faithful to, and I think he could be even better. I'm not saying he should be Johnny Pureheart - I'd never want him to be that, as I think manipulative Kevin has such potential - but, you know. Let him find himself.

(Now would probably not be the time to mention that my pipe dream for a pre-MBK OLTL serial killer SL ended with Kevin being revealed as the culprit during his brutal murder of Blair, who would've been the last victim.)
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#40

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:13 PM

And I like Kelly. I know that's still a minority opinion around here, and I know she's a little loca, but at least we haven't seen her flip out in a few years.


I like her too. I prefer Llanview ladies who are a little loca, like Lindsay (whom I liked less when she was a lot loca.)
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#41

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:18 PM

I will say this for Kevin. I may hate him now and then, but I totally side with him against Kelly. That bitch is crazy and he didn't make her that way (though I love what HT is doing with her) .

Edited by jase-bot, Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:20 PM.

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#42

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:23 PM

(Will had Hotbutboring Disease, a common affliction on ABC Daytime.)

Hee. I always will call him Boobs McWill, because TPTB found every reason in the book to have him either shirtless or in a swimming suit/underwear: moving the grass, swimming in Lantano River, just waking up in Vegas with his buddies after a bender, coming out of the shower -- you name it, waxy Boobs McWill was shirtless.
And now he's a law school graduate!!!
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#43

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:27 PM

I basically like the character of Kelly (and yes all three of the portrayals, admitedly some more than others). That said, the whinney Kelly is beginning to get on my nerves. I need the back story. I need to know why she had an affair almost as soon as she said her "I do's to Kevin" (based on the recent time frame given). I don't buy the 'I was lonely' excuse as justification for her affair. I need Kelly to accept responsibility for her acts or give me a reason to sympathize with her. I also need to see a more proactive Kelly. This Kelly engages in way too much transference and denial for my taste. All that said, I still like Kelly and want to see more of her story so that I can understand her. Similarily, I could say the same for Kevin. Why did he remain with her after the affair? It's not the first time he's had a girlfriend cheat on him. If the affair was discovered Christmas of 2001 as suggested by Kelly's chat with Joey, the "politics" stuff came well after the discovery of the affair so it wouldn't have been a consideration.
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#44

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:33 PM

I don't know how many times this has to be said, but I'll say it again anyway.

If you don't like Todd then don't. If you don't like Blair then don't. If you don't like Todd and Blair then don't. And you can cite reasons from the profound to the shallow for disliking them as individual characters all you want. You can be as surprised as anything that there are people who prefer Todd to Kevin and you can express those opinions freely and openly.

Go ahead! Your preferences are your own. Have a blast with them.

But I find it deeply irritating when I get a PC agenda shoved at me for liking and rooting for fictional character. There are women who love the character of Todd. There are rape victims who love the character of Todd. It has nothing to do with anything that has happened in anyone's real life. It's fiction. It's entertainment. And anyone's reasons for liking a character are their own.

I was deeply disturbed with myself when I found myself becoming sympathetic to Todd. I had seen the entire gang rape and I loathed the character and wanted him to die slowly on screen so I could see it. The reason I love Todd and Blair together is because they are deeply screwed up personalities that just fit together. Blair is no angel. She has attempted murder, she's scammed, lied, wounded and messed with many people's lives for any number of reasons. She's MEAN and she's TOUGH. I hate the Pathetic Whore persona she puts on (fucking Kevin to get back at Todd and then feeling bad about afterwards? No sympathy from me.) But I LOVE that Evil Bitch. I RESPECT that Evil Bitch.

Todd is messed up. I don't even try to justify my liking for him anymore because there is no point. I just do. I would be extremely uncomfortable with Todd being turned into a Romantic Hero because I don't think he is. When he's romantic with Blair that's one thing. It works but I would be very bothered by him waltzing through town romancing the ladies left and right... it isn't his character and it doesn't suit him considering his past.

Villains and anti-heroes and anti-heroines have fans. I still think that Todd is handled pretty well despite it all. He ISN'T a heroic figure in Llanview. The bulk of the population hates him. Blair is not everyone's favorite gal, either.

I'm a woman and I love the character of Todd. That's my perogative. If you don't, that's yours, but don't put your stuff on me and tell me how I should feel because rape is bad. I KNOW rape is bad, okay? But this is fiction. It's not real life and I'll like what I damn well want to.

And I'll talk, rant, rave and bitch, moan, complain and praise what I will. PLEASE feel free to do the same.
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#45

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:37 PM

I need to know why she had an affair almost as soon as she said her "I do's to Kevin" (based on the recent time frame given).


Actually, you'd probably know better than I:when exactly are Kelly and Kevin supposed to have tied the knot? In '02? That would make the most sense as there was no mention of it (obviously, since G&M only came up with it when they arrived last year) when Kelly and Cassie arrived for Todd and Blair's wedding at Christmas (and then when Kelly came back briefly very early in '02) .

Edited by jase-bot, Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:38 PM.

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#46

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:53 PM

Actually, you'd probably know better than I:when exactly are Kelly and Kevin supposed to have tied the knot? In '02? That would make the most sense as there was no mention of it (obviously, since G&M only came up with it when they arrived last year) when Kelly and Cassie arrived for Todd and Blair's wedding at Christmas (and then when Kelly came back briefly very early in '02) .



Kelly told Joey that she gave Kevin the civil war picture Christmas before last and then there was the mis-delivered Christmas gift of a scantily clad Kelly. The civil war Christmas was the Christmas Kevin evidently discovered the affair. I interpreted the civil war Christmas as that of 2001 since last Christmas would have been 2002 and the one before that 2001. Kevin went to Tx to be with Duke in the spring/summer of 2001. Kelly joined him fall of 2001. We were originally told that the affair happened after they were married. That led me to believe that they married when Kelly first arrived in Tx. Obviously that doesn't fit with Kelly's visit. To my knowledge we've never been actually told when they married although when Kelly first arrived she suggested that they had been married about 3 years/2.5 years. If the affair was late 2001 that would also seemingly fit with Kevin's admission to Blair of the marriage counseling and that Kelly's affair was well over before they returned. What I don't quite understand is why Kelly married Kevin only to almost immediately jump into bed with another --if Kelly arrived in Tx in Sept of 2001 and immediately married Kevin and Kevin discoveres the affair in Dec of 2001. My thought is that the writers are playing with the time line to make K/K married longer than they really could be based on the show's actual history.
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#47

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 8:58 PM

Well, I suppose it's not a big deal that they married in '01 - though it seems a little jarring, since Kelly had words with Viki about Kevin and Duke at T&B's wedding, so years later it seems very strange that they wouldn't talk about K&K having just wed (aside from the fact that at the time, under Gary Tomlin, K&K had not married) . Nor does it jibe that Kelly and Cassie had that terse conversation at the same wedding about Kevin yet did not mention Kelly's new marriage.
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#48

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 9:08 PM

Re: K&K's wedding date. What if the affair happed while they were about to be married or engaged in Texas? I don't understand why Kelly would leap into another man's bed, but what are the circumstances of the affair? Was it long term or could it have been a one-nighter? A one-nighter, I could see as a drunken thing while Kevin's off doing Keviny things. Or it could've been that when she showed up, he was in the middle of politicking or something and she felt immediately neglected.

I don't know. I'm taking wild guesses. My next guess is that the MBK is Jen-Bot sent from the future to kill off all attractive women to remove her threats to Rex.

ETA -- What's up with all the McBains that I'm seeing lately? I've been flipping between the Dyansty marathon on Soapnet (which has wonderful bad acting), the QE marathon on Bravo (which is just wonderful) and random other stuff. There was a congressman on Dyansty called McBain. First the Simpson's McBain, then Dyansty and now OLTL? What is it about that name?

Edited by cutebutpsycho, Jan 1, 2004 @ 9:13 PM.

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#49

ncgal

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 9:25 PM

Re: K&K's wedding date. What if the affair happed while they were about to be married or engaged in Texas? I don't understand why Kelly would leap into another man's bed, but what are the circumstances of the affair? Was it long term or could it have been a one-nighter? A one-nighter, I could see as a drunken thing while Kevin's off doing Keviny things. Or it could've been that when she showed up, he was in the middle of politicking or something and she felt immediately neglected.


Here's educated speculation on my part. The politics seems to be fairly recent. Shortly after Kevin's return he mentioned that working with Asa the last few months was wonderful and that coincided with Kelly's statement to Dorian about Kevin getting involved with Asa's friends in Houston. To my recollection we haven't been given many details about the affair. Kevin's reference to Kelly calling David a friend and saying he had heard that before makes me believe it was more than a one night stand. I do think Kelly had major adjustment problems to Tx as its been referenced several times how much she hated Tx and that from day one Kevin was working round the clock.
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#50

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 9:47 PM

I've been looking, but unless I've missed it, I haven't seen any casting info re: a new Adriana. I know this character has been mentioned a lot as of late (not that they ever stopped the mentions, unfortunately), but things have been ramped up lately. Just curious. I may need a new remote - between the Jenbot and Hufflepout and GH, my remote has been getting some extra FF action, and it might need to be benched soon. If this comes to play, it'll need to be put on the injured list.

And I don't sympathize with Kelly. She's done, and is totally continuing to do, selfish and self-destructive things. Plus, she's snivelly. I love Heather Tom, though, and at least she's gotten her edge back. I think her descent into madness will be interesting, and well-acted by HT and DG, KdP, TSJ, ES, RS, TW, and most others who may be involved.
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#51

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 9:47 PM

And don't forget. Boobs McWill graduated from law school less than two years after his character left the show, and we never saw him applying or taking the LSAT, so he took the LSAT, applied, go accepted, started either in the fall or spring (Although the Rappaports are so hoity toity that you know he went to a traditional school that only allows entrances in the fall semester), finished three full years of school and graduated, all within a two-year time frame before that day when Linsdey talked about her family in her psych eval.
So, if that time frame can work in OLTL's reality thread continum, then I'll buy anything about Kevin and Kelley's marriage and her affair.
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#52

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 10:03 PM

Queen B, Adriana has indeed been recast with Melissa Gallo. TVGuide.com dropped the surprise on us a few days ago.
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#53

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 10:05 PM

The soap opera time continuum makes my head spin. Between Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome and four-month gestation periods, you'd think time goes faster. So why does it take three weeks for a day to pass?

TV Guide online has the name of the Adrianna recast, so it's definitely happening. God only knows why. At least it should shut River up. His whining drives me crazy. Wait till he finds out they're going to pass her off as his aunt.

Edited by idledandy, Jan 1, 2004 @ 10:06 PM.

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#54

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 10:12 PM

Well. I guess TPTB believe in the old adage: If at first you don't succeed, try, try again? Gah. I'm not against recasting characters who have actors that don't work, but this character was irrelevant and didn't work.

Come to think of it, though, I should like this character. Llanview is awfully white, so any of infusion of non-white characters should be welcome. Adriana, however, is not. Plus she bolsters a family I've come to not care for much.

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#55

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 10:17 PM

My primary complaint with Adrianna returning is that it means we'll see more of Carlotta. Unless the MBK gets her! Hey, Carlotta, you once had a thing with Hank - just like Nora! Now get your hiney down to an LU dance class.
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#56

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 10:20 PM

Happy New Year, everyone!

This is pure, utter speculation, but every time I can remember that I've seen two soap characters kissing passionately at the end of an episode, and then the preview for the next episode shows them both fully clothed with one saying to the other some variation of "I want you/have sex with me," they in fact *don't* go on to have sex. So what I'm wondering is if we're led to believe that Kevin and Blair have had sex, but we never see said sex and ultimately it's revealed that they haven't. Blair sleeps with Todd and then is attacked and raped by someone else, probably the MBK. In her confusion she thinks she had consensual sex with Kevin and then got attacked by Todd. The two-person DNA thing fits in with Blair's belief. Kevin eventually finds out about the second-person DNA thing but keeps quiet because he thinks Todd belongs in jail in the larger sense. Because I'm assuming that they're not idiotic enough to try the "he thinks/she thinks" scenario -- maybe I'm overly optimistic? -- and if that's the case at some point it has to be proven conclusively that Todd did not rape Blair. My alternate scenario for this is that Blair sleeps with Kevin and then Todd and then is attacked but not raped by the MBK or someone else, but the wording of the spoiler that the presence of two DNA samples is seen as being significant leads me to believe that my first scenario is more likely. I could be wrong, but I don't think we're eventually going to find out that Blair had sex with three men within such a short time, even if one of those encounters was nonconsensual. Because that would be horribly icky.

One thing to be grateful about re: Gozer is that if Blair is taken to the hospital soon enough after her possible rape to get DNA samples, she presumably can be understood to have been given the morning-after pill, and we're not likely to have a WTD SL. Not that I thought that was likely -- Blair has been pregnant four times after all -- but I'm thinking it's highly unlikely now. Again, maybe I'm too optimistic.

I won't say much more about Gozer for now, because I think everyone else has spoken most eloquently, but where I'm thinking they're going with this is breaking the long long pattern of Todd doing something horrible for which Blair has to forgive him. At the beginning of their relationship, Blair was a morally grey character, but for years and years it's been Todd attacking Blair for her perceived slights and Blair trying to retaliate. If Blair really does falsely accuse Todd of rape, even unintentionally so, that would be one of the few things that would cause her enormous guilt as far as he's concerned, given everything she knows about his past and the way she viewed Marty. By rights, that should be one of the few things that Todd won't want revenge for, because Blair being raped by someone should, based on Todd's history, be one of the few things that would shut down their cycle of revenge on Todd's side. I think the ultimate goal of the SL is to go somewhere different with the couple but to put them back together in a viable way. Whether or not you think that is a good idea depends on your opinion of the characters and the couple.

Oh, if BW screws up Jessica finding out about Todd I will hunt her down and kill her. Well...I'll write an angry post, at least.

My thought is that the writers are playing with the time line to make K/K married longer than they really could be based on the show's actual history.

Well, Jack was born after Kevin left for Texas, IIRC, and he's now 3-4 years old, so K/K must have been gone at least that long, right? :) Seriously, I grant soaps some leeway on long-term timelines because of all the SORASing that goes on. But I'm glad we have ncgal around to provide the detailed background, and I'm not just saying that because we both still hate Kelly. (Okay, okay, I like HT's portrayal infinitely more, and see Kelly as flawed rather than cold and bitchy now, but I still think she's largely to blame for her own problems. She couldn't have found something to do in Texas while Kevin was working long hours, such as volunteering to help the needy? Any Texas Junior League would have been more than happy to find enough for her to do.)
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#57

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Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 11:58 PM

I think the reason they're still going with the stupid River/Adrianna storyline is whoever created it must think it's such a wonderful storyline and Big Family Secret that they didn't want to waste it.
I had no problems with the first Adrianna actress. She really didn't get on my nerves as much as the guy playing River. He's terrible.
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#58

WTHL

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Posted Jan 2, 2004 @ 12:11 AM

Edited because it is only a TV show.

Edited by WTHL, Jan 2, 2004 @ 12:25 AM.

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#59

Super C

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Posted Jan 2, 2004 @ 12:11 AM

Dande

But I find it deeply irritating when I get a PC agenda shoved at me for liking and rooting for fictional character.


Ditto!

I like what I like case closed.
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#60

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Posted Jan 2, 2004 @ 12:52 AM

First of all, that's the first time I have ever been accused of having a PC agenda. If wanting rape, rapists, and rape victims to be sensitively and realistically portrayed on television is a PC agenda, then I guess I have one.

However, never let it be said that I tell people what to think. So where in my above post I say things to the effect of "women should be offended," please interpret that as "I would think that all women would be offended." If you are not, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I, however, will never understand nor agree with it.

The fictional character argument makes no difference to me. When a soap portrays a "social issue" such as rape, I hold the characters involved to a higher standard of realism than regular characters involved in fantasy storylines.

My essential complaint is this: OLTL kept Todd around because people liked RH. This was a controversial move which cost them a lot of regular viewers. Then RH left, so there was no reason to keep around a character for whom TPTB often felt the need to apologize. At this point I allowed myself to become a regular tape-it-every-day viewer again. Then they hired the extremely talented Trevor St. John. Why not let him just be Walker? Why bring back Todd? I just don't understand that.

ETA: With regard to the double-DNA thing, if it's Kevin's and Todd's, wouldn't it be similar in that they are blood relatives?

Edited by idledandy, Jan 2, 2004 @ 1:00 AM.

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