I know we don't see eye-to-eye, but I feel my conclusions are as valid as yours. Please don't belittle them. And if I misinterpreted, I apologize.
, I don't mean to belittle your conclusions, I just get the impression from time to time that you view your conclusions as absolute fact, which I don't believe they are, especially when it comes to writer intention (to clarify, I don't believe mine are fact either, but a different interpretation). Most likely a misinterpretation on my part, and I apologize if I overreact at times. It probably doesn't help that I don't think we argue on the same terms - I tend to be all about character analysis and interpretation of motive while trying to avoid judging. When I dispute your points, most of the time I'm not trying to say that the character was right (I think Buffy was very very wrong at many points) so much as trying to understand where they were coming from. I'm not interested in moral judgments of fictional characters, I'm interested in understanding and interpreting the story. And I do tend to think that some judgments oversimplify or overlook things. The feeling I get from reading some of the posts here, including yours, is "Buffy was a bitch who favored Spike and was completely selfish, clear and simple" whereas I tend to think it was more complex than that. It's that complexity I'm trying to explore.
I thought you knew I meant a soul in general (since Buffy repeated "he has a soul now" over and over, so to me, Buffy's back on the soul=okay track)
I know what you meant, but my point was more along the lines of the "It's different. He's different. He has a soul now." interpretation of her emphasis on the soul. If Buffy went through S6 and still believes soul=automatically ok, that's pretty stupid. In her book, though, soul=different when it comes to a vampire, and puts everything into question. Especially given her experiences with Angel. Soul also = chance of redemption. Buffy and Xander may have leapt to the undesirable conclusion that Willow may have been responsible for the flayed corpse but IMO they were also reserving judgment and they certainly weren't planning on killing Willow on sight if they found her, especially not without asking her about it first. Willow knows for a fact that Anyanka has killed - Willow saw the evidence, confronted Anya about it, and Anya admitted to it. Holden tells Buffy that Spike sired her, and no, she doesn't want to believe it but she also doesn't ignore it. She sets guards on him, tries to find proof (the word of an evil vampire who just spent the night listening to you let your guard down isn't exactly unquestionable), confronts him when she thinks he's done it, but backs down under his denial and apparent ignorance of what she's talking about. If Anya had denied her part in the frat boy killings or if Spike had admitted to the killings, maybe things would have been different in each case, who knows? Maybe they wouldn't, but the circumstances weren't exactly the same. And Faith didn't get punched when she called Buffy on her bad plans which is kind of a different situation than the above anyway.
The chance that Buffy gives Faith doesn't take any longer, IMO, than the chance she gave Spike. Both of them got the begrudging, distrustful chanc e to help at first, and both were extended more of a chance later. I have no doubt Buffy likes Spike better than she likes Faith, so she probably does treat him more nicely when she does give him that chance. But it takes a while.
And yeah, Buffy's contentions that Spike was the only one watching her back were paranoid, irrational, unfounded, and unfair. But then again, Buffy was pretty irrational and unfair throughout that episode. Like I said earlier, though, I could see the stresses that she was going through and the mindset that she was in. It was that irrationality as a result of the stress that led her to getting booted out. Even she acknowledges that later.
, my point was about Buffy's treatment and trust of Spike vs Faith. It *wasn't* free will with Spike, so while Buffy should have been more wary of the trigger, not trusting Spike himself or treating him badly because of his actions under its influence may have been unfair, if Buffy believed that the soul made him a different person from the one who did all the bad stuff before he got the soul. Faith, on the other hand, was the same person with no mystical change in self/status, and thus was harder to trust, and made it harder for Buffy to let her issues with her go. As for Spike's behavior in Beneath You
, I saw that episode as Spike casting desperately about for a persona that would fit, and in the Bronze with Anya, he tried on the old Spike persona for a while when he couldn't deal with the possibility that she was about to reveal his secret.
Edited by Teenes, Jan 7, 2004 @ 9:41 PM.