2745 replies to this topic

[jennblevins]

Prime showed "Deal Me Out" last night, with John Ritter as a soldier who tries to take Frank hostage in the shower. (Eeew, naked Frank.) It was somewhat startling to see John Ritter so a) young, b) not playing Jack on Three's Company, the only role I've seen much of him in, and c) waving a gun around!

Aliana, good point about Charles, but I found the episode to be too predictable, and a lot of people seemed out-of-character to me. (Wow, how's that for length of time before reply?)

[Eegah]

Disk 2

Alcoholics Unanimous: Frank is left in charge and orders prohibition, and things get very tense. One of the few times that the series actually questioned the casual drinking of its heroes, so it's worth a look just for that.

There is Nothing Like a Nurse: All the nurses are evacuated and the men must go on without them for a while. This is perhaps the only time in the series when the directing style became intrusive, with a close up of Margaret's lips, mini-flashbacks, and split screens. Hy Averback had done a few episodes before, so I don't know what he was up to here. A pretty forgettable affair otherwise.

Adam's Rib: Hawkeye orders a case of spare ribs from Chicago, but has trouble getting them to the camp. An absolutely hilarious episode that is one of the series' best.

A Full Rich Day: Hawkeye sends his father a recording about a search for a missing body and a gun-happy soldier who forces the doctors to operate on his friend before all other casualties. It's obvious that the writer here didn't know how to end things with the way both plotlines end up, but the road there is pretty fun.

Mad Dogs and Servicemen: Radar is bitten by a dog and might have rabies, and Hawkeye tries some reverse psychology on a soldier who can't move. A pretty average episode, though the final chase after the dog is great.

Private Charles Lamb: Radar tries to save a lamb from being the main course at a Greek feast. Another average one, with a plot that takes a little too long to get going.

Bombed: The camp undergoes an intense shelling, leaving Trapper and Margaret trapped in the supply room. The highlight here is Gary Burghoff's growing frustration at a deadpan soldier's refusal to help. A great time all around.

Bulletin Board: As a much-needed barbeque party nears, the doctors are their usual selves. Not much plot again, though it's well worth a watch for the gags.

[PostToastie]

I was Father Mulcahy, ya'all. Does that make me the most boring person on the planet or what? *sigh*

I "heart" Father Mulcahy - 'jocularity...jocularity'

He and Radar are the best!

I used to call my sister Frank Burns when she was being mean to me

This is too funny!
I also hated Frank when I first started watching, but now that I think about it, Larry Linville had a hard job! I'd hate to have to act like such a 'ninny'.

Ferret Face!

Right now the MASH moment that's stuck in my head is Klinger practicing forging Potter's signature, the way he says "Sherman... T... Potter!" Aaahhh, good times.

Great, now all that I can think of is "SHERMAN....T....POTTER". AARRRGHH!

Anyway, I was going through the list of episodes that really humanized Charles for me, and came up with my three favorites. The one with the patient who stuttered and Charles was so kind to, though no one noticed. The one where he tries to help out this Korean girl and get her out of prostitution, and everyone thinks he's just having sex with her. And the one with the French woman who chose Charles over Hawkeye, and who broke his heart when he realized his family would never accept her.

Anyone else got any others?

How about the one where Radar called Charles's mom to get his old sledding hat and he finally started enjoying the party? Or the one where Charles was trying to carry out his family tradition of taking gifts to the poor without being found out?

I liked Trapper better than BJ, but I TOTALLY agree with those who say Charles is better than Frank!

Edited by PostToastie, Feb 20, 2004 @ 7:49 PM.

[PostToastie]

Edited to delete duplicate post

Edited by PostToastie, Feb 20, 2004 @ 7:50 PM.

[IShallFromTime2Time]

I like Charles and Frank for completely different reasons. To me, the only thing they have in common is that they despised Hawkeye and BJ.

I disagree that Charles despised them. In "Sons and Bowlers," he really connects with Hawkeye, and in episodes before that he was always willing to buck the rules and really became the Third Musketeer in their little schemes. He also showed affection for B.J. For all his posturing in "Rally 'Round the Flagg Boys," he won't commit even minor spying on Hawkeye for the thing he wanted most in the world: the chance to go home.

The one problem I had with the finale is that I didn't like Charles' goodbye to Hawkeye and B.J. But I suppose that it was in character; Charles would've never been all sentimental with them. But I'd like to that Charles knew those two were the best friends he would probably ever have in his life.

In the episode where Hawkeye's new girlfriend Millie dies by stepping on a landmine, what saves the (sub-par) ep for me is when Hawk gives the eulogy at the end and says that he wants to say now that he appreciates everyone there, and "to those closest to me....[he lists them]..I love each and every one of you." And in his list of those closest he had said "Charles" with a kind of tone of "yes, you heard me." One of my favorite moments.

[Ailiana]

I think Charles did despise them, but only in a sort of official capacity. He knew they were the sort of people (in the eyes of the world he grew up with) whom he should despise, and they frequently did things that drove him nuts, but I think for himself, he grew to like and care about them. There was never going to be the same sort of rapport between him and Hawkeye or BJ that those two shared--but I think he came to understand and respect them. At least when they weren't actively driving him insane. The episode with the French horn and the no showering comes to mind...

[GoldfishGirl42]

At least when they weren't actively driving him insane. The episode with the French horn and the no showering comes to mind...

Or the "no cleaning" ep, where Charles gets fed up with Hawkeye and BJ's mess, and starts fighting fire with fire. The last scene..... no dialogue, just wonderful facial expressions while they destroy each other's stuff, and finally , Charles roaring and ramming the mattress out the door.

I heart DOS.

(Although, you sorta wonder what the scene was like when they come back from OR and realize what they were doing.)

Edited by GoldfishGirl42, Feb 22, 2004 @ 11:52 AM.

[PostToastie]

There was never going to be the same sort of rapport between him and Hawkeye or BJ that those two shared--but I think he came to understand and respect them.

Just re-watched the 'time capsule' episode this weekend. I liked how Charles & BJ worked together to trick Rizzo with the fake grenade. I also thought that the three of them bringing out their time capsule filled with their meaningful items showed definite team work. This was the last episode before the series finale and I thought the way they mentioned old characters - Radar, Henry Blake, even Frank Burns - was an appropriate tie up for the series before the big two hour movie.

They did just show the series finale on the Hallmark channel. They aren't going to stop showing the re-runs, are they? Hopefully they'll start over at the beginning again.

[bamf]

The time-capsule episode, although the second to last of the series, was filmed after the the 2 hour farewell. Knowing that always makes that show a wee more emotional for me.

Charles definetly connected with Hawkeye and B.J. better than Frank ever did. I forget the title but I love the episode where Hawkeye and a cowboy-type doctor trade...companys? Anyway, seeing Charles and B.J. band together against this guy who wasn't Hawk was great. But I love that the three of them didn't become BFF! That would have been weak.

I just saw Welcome to Korea. Hunnicutt looks so dang young and I love when he and Pierce arrive at the camp completely toasted. Good times.

[iMissEthan]

I was flipping channels Valentine's weekend and saw part of the episode with the little clock at the bottom of the screen. Real-time television a couple of decades before 24.

[Halfpint Ingals]

I watched the last episode the other day. I hope I don't sound stupid, but I was confused by the whole Hawkeye mental depression. Did Hawk kill the chicken ?? Did he smother it or something ?? I couldn't tell if he said he killed chicken or the lady holding it. I just wanted to see exactly what happened.

Edited by Halfpint Ingals, Feb 24, 2004 @ 9:08 PM.

[Eegah]

The woman actually killed her baby, and Hawkeye's mind recalled it as a chicken to make it seem less horrible.

[PostToastie]

I love, love, LOVE M*A*S*H, but the one thing that bothers me is that it always seemed to be so 'Alda-centric'. I guess since he produced/directed so many of the episodes, they made him the main feature. (Kind of an SJP/SATC thing). There were SO many good actors on that show, but each story had to feature what an INCREDIBLE surgeon 'Hawk' was and how he almost always seemed to save the day.

[bamf]

I love Alan Alda so I may be a bit biased here but I don't think the show was all about The Great Hawkeye Pierce!

A lot of episodes dealt with him being emotionally unstable (childhood friends dying in his dreams, easing up on the drinking after his tab is so high, the finale). One one hand that could be an Alda showcase but on the other hand it shows that Hawkeye was indeed human. He wasn't as "strong" as some of the other characters. I've always liked the one where Radar is injured and Hawkeye blames himself, gets toasted and has to leave the O.R. Radar finally realizing that Hawkeye is flawed is great. Also, Winchester was at least a comparable if not a better surgeon and knocked Pierce down a peg.

[Halfpint Ingals]

Eegah, thanks. Now I really understand all that happened and why he was afraid to go near kids. It makes more sense - thanks.

[Ailiana]

While I am technically old enough to have seen most of the original run of M*A*S*H (and robably did, because my dad watched it), for the most part, I know the series through reruns, which never seem to play in order. So, I know early versus old on the basis of cast changes, but until the DVDs I've never really been able to watch the series in terms of "progression" of themes, characters, and so on.

On the "Hawkeye-centrism" issue, I agree that he's the focus of more episodes than any other single character (although, to be fair, Alan Alda was a full member of the cast longer than any one except Loretta Swit), but I think there were plenty of episodes in which he came out looking less than wonderful. For example, there's an episode where they get a bunch of British troops, and Hawkeye doesn't like how their commander talks to them, and goes into one of his patented rants. Only to eventually learn that this man knows his troops, is very close to them, and they love and respect him. I really feel that Hawkeye looked like an idiot in that one, and I like that sometimes his moral high-horse dumps him on the ground.

[PostToastie]

although, to be fair, Alan Alda was a full member of the cast longer than any one except Loretta Swit)

I never thought about it this way.
Both the Hallmark channel and our local channel that shows M*A*S*H have started showing earlier versions. In the 'early days', it seems like more of an ensemble cast. Hawkeye was still the 'ace' surgeon, but I always felt like he had to be to make people care about his character. If he was just a 'malcontent' and a rebel, people wouldn't feel the emotional attachment they do to him. (JMO)

I can see where other actors had to step into roles that were played by much loved characters (Klinger filling the void when my favorite, Radar left or BJ coming in when Trapper left) or a character having to come in to fill a dymanic (Charles had to come in when Frank left and after Frank, there wasn't an antagonist for Hawkeye). It makes me think of ER and all of the new characters they have brought in since the original 9 left. It's still an ok show, but I just don't care about the characters as much. Hawkeye isn't my favorite character and for a while I was only seeing the older episodes and was feeling rather 'meh' to quote a TWOP phrase.

Also, since the series was taped in the 70's (?), I guess they had different rules on what they could show. They couldn't show as much death/suffering as tv seems to now (and that's mostly on the news...) so I guess some 'miraculous' saves had to take place.

Thanks for making me see things differently!

[iMissEthan]

Alda wasn't writing or directing episodes in the early seasons. Later on when he got more power and started doing that, it became more Hawkeye-centric. This is why I like the original episodes (before McLean left) the best. The characters were at their most pure, not polluted by feelings the actors had for them (Swit wanting Hot Lips to show a softer side, Alda wanting Hawkeye to be less of a womanizer).

[IShallFromTime2Time]

That was Wayne Rogers' complaint, that Hawkeye was too much the star. However, Alan Alda is an amazing actor, IMO, and Wayne was fairly one-note, thus the reason why Hawkeye was, off the bat, made the focus of the series.

One of my favorite episodes is one I find almost every other fan hates. It's "Commander Pierce," where Potter has to go on a trip and appoint a temporary CO. Charles, the second highest ranked surgeon, is sick with the flu so Hawkeye is appointed, do to seniority. He has to throw over his wacky, laidback rule breaking mode in order for the unit to be run properly. At one point, B.J. leaves to go tend to an injured civilian in the village without Hawkeye's knowledge. They get an influx of wounded and when Hawkeye tells Radar to get B.J. to take over triage, Radar reveals that B.J. is gone. After surgery, Hawkeye vents to Margaret:

Margaret: "If Frank Burns could see you now...It's not easy to be critical when you're the one in charge, is it? Permission to say it serves you right, sir. ::sarcastic salute::"
Hawkeye: "Permission denied. Dismissed, Major."

Then when B.J. returns, Hawkeye goes off on him:

B.J. "I'm a doctor! A patient needed me!"
Hawekeye: "We had patients here that needed you! Potter isn't here, you weren't here, Charles has never been here. While you were off playing savior I was stuck here with fifty wounded and two surgeons!"

It was one of the only times where Hawkeye's rebel attitude was examined, and one of the few episodes with no happy ending (Hawk and B.J. are still fighting at the end of the episode and don't make up).

[PostToastie]

That was Wayne Rogers' complaint, that Hawkeye was too much the star. However, Alan Alda is an amazing actor, IMO, and Wayne was fairly one-note, thus the reason why Hawkeye was, off the bat, made the focus of the series.

I always liked Trapper (and to some extent BJ) better. They didn't seem like they were trying SO hard to stand out as the rebel.

Whenever I think of Alan Alda, I can only picture him in that movie 'The Four Seasons' about the three older couples who go on vacations every year. Maybe that's my problem.

Margaret: "If Frank Burns could see you now...It's not easy to be critical when you're the one in charge, is it? Permission to say it serves you right, sir. ::sarcastic salute::"
Hawkeye: "Permission denied. Dismissed, Major."

This makes me think of the early episode when Hawkeye calls her 'Baby'.

Hawkeye: "See you later, Baby"
Margaret: "That's MAJOR to you"
Hawkeye: "See you later, Major Baby"

Alan Alda is a good actor, and the more I am seeing of the older episodes, the more I realize this. Again, I think that the newer episodes seem to feature him because he is one of the few who 'stayed the same' through the series.

[bamf]

Alda's family stayed in New Jersey for the entire run of the series. He most likely had more free time than the other actors and became more involved with the show. Writing episodes was probably a great way to spend cross country flights every weekend.

[jennblevins]

I guess I'm of two minds about the Hawkeyenization of the later episodes. I like the earlier ones, because they don't always have a definite plots, which makes it feel less like a silly sitcom and more like the movie. On the other hand, I much prefer BJ to Trapper (who just seemed like Hawkeye Lite, whereas BJ has differences and well as similarities) and Charles to Frank, and generally also Potter to Blake, so I don't generally care that there's a bit more Hawkeye in the later shows. However I do think Charles and Potter were written somewhat inconsistantly at times.

[Eegah]

The show took a big risk in replacing characters with ones that were pretty much the complete opposites, and I'm glad it was able to run so long on that. It seems that by the time Radar left the people behind the show had succumbed to the criticisms of the cast changes and replaced him with an existing character instead. I often wonder what a Radar replacement could have been like.

[PostToastie]

and generally also Potter to Blake

The other cast changes were okay, but I never liked Potter. His constant cries of 'horse hockey' or 'bull biscuits' made me cringe! They went too far in the opposite direction with this change.

I often wonder what a Radar replacement could have been like.

Radar was one of my favorite characters so I can't imagine anyone getting the affection that he did, but who would you cast as his replacement?

[iMissEthan]

They couldn't get a replacement Radar because by then all the cast had gotten so old, if they brought in a new 19 year old kid, they would have looked ancient in comparison. Radar was youthful looking, but he was probably over 30 by the time he left. I didn't like Klinger taking over his job, but then again, I didn't like anything much about the last few years of the show.

[Ailiana]

I actually like that Klinger took over for Radar. For one thing, there was an established dynamic between the characters, and I think a new character could have damaged that. Then there's the fact that it created more reasons to play with the tension between Charles and Klinger, exacerbated by the fact that Klinger now performed important functions that Charles needed.

[PostToastie]

Can someone tell me which episode the "Jocularity, Jocularity" (from Father Mulcahy) was said?

Also, the one where the movie broke and they did Father Mulcahy impressions and sang that song? (The surgeons in the army .....)

[Eegah]

The jocularity quote was actually Potter's contribution to the Father Mulcahy sound-alike contest in Movie Night.

[PostToastie]

The jocularity quote was actually Potter's contribution to the Father Mulcahy sound-alike contest in Movie Night.

Actually Radar did the impression.

My husband is a M*A*S*H freak (and sometimes just a freak...) and he has alot of the episodes memorized. We have marathon's every night with the Hallmark channel and a local channel that shows two episodes per night. When he saw the movie night episode, he wondered how Radar would have known that Mulcahy said the 'jocularity' comment when he wasn't in the tent when he said it. Of course, a few weeks later, the episode (which had Trapper so it was an early one) aired. Father Mulcahy comes into the swamp and Trapper/Hawkeye are planning one of their schemes and he says, "Jocularity, Jocularity".

The one thing that my M*A*S*H freak can't remember, is the name of either episode (the movie one or the original jocularity one).

Please help!

[D.C.]

I saw a later episode recently, the one where the head chaplain comes to the unit for a visit and Father Mulcahy is trying to get everybody in shape. He tells somebody, "No time for jocularity now!" which struck me as the only time I had heard him use the word, though I remembered the line from the Movie Night episode. Maybe that was just a verbal idiocycrancy of his that they picked up on.

Apparently, William Christopher was incredibly well respected by the other actors and the writers. There was a two-parter that was supposed to be a documentary about the doctors in Korea, done by a real Korean-era TV reporter. Christopher improvised a line where he talked about watching the surgeons cut open a body and warming their hands from the heat that came out of the cavity. The writers said it was something they never could have come up with and the actors said, "How do we follow THIS?" They also said he's as much of a sweetheart as Mulcahy himself. I know he and his wife adopted a toddler who soon turned out to have severe autism. The adoption rules said that in circumstances such as those they could, in effect, return the kid, but they kept raised him and became autism advocates instead.