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#2281

Coop Fontaine

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Posted Mar 9, 2012 @ 6:34 PM

Maybe 'cause I started watching the show late in its run, I don't get the hate for the later seasons. Not to say there weren't any bad episodes, 'cause there were. But, overall, I'm more fond of the series post-Daphne-finds-out-about-Niles'-feelings than of the earlier "classic" seasons.

I'm enjoying The Hallmark Channel right now, 'cause they're running Season 9. The other day they aired two of my favorites, The First Temptation Of Daphne and The Return Of Martin Crane.

TFTOD has that great -- poignant, I think -- "How could you possibly think there could be somebody else?"//"Because I was somebody else." scene between Niles and Daphne. And I adore the sub-plot with Frasier, Martin and the cricket. "So we set a lizard loose to catch the cricket? Then what? We get an owl to eat the gecko? Then we get a tiger to eat the owl? What eats the tiger, Dad? Tell me that!" Lol.

TROMC's flashbacks of the day Martin was shot were well done, I thought. The hospital scene, especially. Niles and Martin not knowing what to say to each other was heartbreaking. Then, Frasier/Niles (going to the Mongolian Music Festival) and Roz/Daphne (going to the Billy Joel concert) trying to decide who was going to come back at 10:00 p.m. to walk Eddie had me cracking up. "Let's just all leave now and then Roz will have to walk him."//"Hey!" And, finally, Martin yelling at all of them to shut up and kissing Frasier and Niles before leaving for work. Awkwardly sweet.
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#2282

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Posted Mar 9, 2012 @ 8:13 PM

"Hey!" And, finally, Martin yelling at all of them to shut up and kissing Frasier and Niles before leaving for work. Awkwardly sweet

I love how they walk over like little kids getting in trouble! Subtle, not overdone. And Niles was always such a little snitch!
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#2283

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Posted Mar 10, 2012 @ 5:39 PM

I love how they walk over like little kids getting in trouble!


This reminds me of one of my favorite all time episodes. Niles is named Corkmaster at the Wine Club and Frasier gets a spot on the radio to discuss wine and the ever-present competitive squabbling starts. Martin marches Frasier over to the wine club and sets them straight (paraphrased):

Martin: Are you going to let your brother play?
Niles: Dad, I don't think this is the time...
Martin: Are you going to let your brother play?
Niles: Dad, there are rules....
Martin: Then change the rules so your brother can play.
Niles: I can't change the rules....
Martin: Are you going to let your brother play?
Niles: Oh, okay
Martin: Good, now shake hands!
Random Wine Club member when Niles tries to start the meeting over as Cork Master: You got yelled at by your dad! ::cue laughter:: entire club.

Played to perfection with Frasier and Niles hanging their heads in shame.

Same episode also featured Jennifer Coolidge's hilarious turn as Frederica the physical therapist.

"It is just your leg I am pulling"

Great episode.
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#2284

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Posted Mar 10, 2012 @ 9:17 PM

That was on last night. It was hilarious. Then at the end they didn't want to go to the wine club anymore because it turned into the 'pick on people club'.

Edited by Runningwild, Mar 10, 2012 @ 9:19 PM.

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#2285

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Posted Mar 11, 2012 @ 11:55 AM

/"Hey!" And, finally, Martin yelling at all of them to shut up and kissing Frasier and Niles before leaving for work. Awkwardly sweet.


What a sweet moment. I loved that episode about when Martin got shot. It really shows how distant the boys were from each other and their Dad. Then the ending where he kisses them is such a contrast, but also probably harkens back to what he did when they were younger.

I love Martin and his sons moments. He is shown to be a big softie really. Referencing Mamma Mia again, when they are watching the old home movies, the boys in the video wave to the camera and it cuts to Martin all happy waving back at them. So cute.
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#2286

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Posted Mar 12, 2012 @ 7:13 PM

I also love the episode where Martin goes to the parole hearing of the man who shot him, although we don't realize it until the end. His expression when he decides not to speak (against or for parole) was moving. And my heart breaks every time for the guy's mother.

The Patrick Stewart episode is yet another favorite.

Stewart's character, caressing Frasier: "Is there anything he can't do?"
Niles: "Time will tell."

Roz: "You know what Barry was doing last night?"
Frasier: "What?"
Roz: "ME!"

I must say, Stewart's character was an awfully good sport about Frasier leading him on.

Edited by beadgirl, Mar 12, 2012 @ 7:14 PM.

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#2287

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Posted Mar 12, 2012 @ 9:22 PM

I also love the episode where Martin goes to the parole hearing of the man who shot him, although we don't realize it until the end. His expression when he decides not to speak (against or for parole) was moving. And my heart breaks every time for the guy's mother.

Absolutely. One of those later-season arcs that proved the writers (and actors) could really bring it.

I don't hate the show, post-Daphne/Niles coming together. Some moments are wonderful, like the parole hearing, and Niles' open-heart surgery, and the whole Victor Garber episode as Frasier's butler. I just don't find it as...consistent, I guess, is the word I want...as it had been.
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#2288

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Posted Mar 12, 2012 @ 10:02 PM

I'm not a big Patrick Stewart fan (always preferred Captain Kirk), but I LOVED that episode!
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#2289

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Posted Mar 13, 2012 @ 4:26 AM

The parole hearing episode in many ways is a real tribute to John Mahoney's abilities, as he has almost no lines, but you definately get a real sense of what is going on, emotionally, even before the episode makes explicit what is going on.
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#2290

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Posted Mar 13, 2012 @ 2:42 PM

I just want to jump in here and say that I really, really love this show. (I realize I'm arriving a bit late to the party, but I still want to add in my two cents.) I never watched Frasier when it actually aired because I was too young (being two years old when it started) but a few months ago my mother put on some late night re-runs that I happened to see and I became hooked. We have since worked our way through every single episode (the entire series is free with our Netflix stream), and we have been having so much fun. It really is (IMO) one of the best shows ever written. There is this careful balance of different types of humor mixed with serious moments and just enough physical comedy to keep us on our toes. I do notice the decline in quality during the later seasons, but I don't feel nearly as strong about that as some others seem to, and I think that is partly to do with how fast I have watched it. I would imagine that "boring" or "crappy" episodes are more irritating and noticeable when you are watching one a week than when you can watch two or three 22-minutes episodes each night and get through a whole season in two weeks.

And I adore the sub-plot with Frasier, Martin and the cricket. "So we set a lizard loose to catch the cricket? Then what? We get an owl to eat the gecko? Then we get a tiger to eat the owl? What eats the tiger, Dad? Tell me that!" Lol.


Ah, but you've left out the best part-- when Martin answers " An alligator for one, smart guy!" And there was a nice father/son moment between Frasier and Martin while they are waiting for the cricket in the kitchen. They get into a discussion about the size of the cricket's brain and talk about which ten women they would take to "Love Island". HILARIOUS. I think this ep is an example of a "good" episode during one of the "bad" seasons. The Frasier/Cricket subplot is anyway, even if you don't like the Daphne storyline.
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#2291

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Posted Mar 13, 2012 @ 3:08 PM

Glad you joined the fun, Pause Button. I like the Gecko scene, too. The men on the hunt for a noisy cricket and the lengths they go to get it. When Martin is putting the gecko away in the box, he asks Frasier if he wants his dental floss back and Martin ends up throwing the floss container in with the lizard.
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#2292

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Posted Mar 13, 2012 @ 4:58 PM

I agree, this is one the best written sit coms ever. In my personal top 3, after The Dick Van Dyke Show and The Bob Newhart Show. They did such a great job of establishing the three men as a family from the very first episodes. I loved how those relationships - both father-sons and brother-brother - grew over the years. I think Peri Gilpin is not acknowledged enough for what she brought to the show. She had such great comedic timing, and when called for, was pretty good with the drama too. I love the scene where she and Frasier are doing the show elsewhere (was it Spokane?) and no one is calling in, so she fakes a call, which quickly becomes real. And this show also did a good job with the minor characters, like Gil and Bulldog, using them just enough so we didn't get sick of them.
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#2293

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Posted Mar 13, 2012 @ 6:43 PM

Peri Gilpin is not acknowledged enough for what she brought to the show. She had such great comedic timing, and when called for, was pretty good with the drama too. I love the scene where she and Frasier are doing the show elsewhere (was it Spokane?) and no one is calling in, so she fakes a call, which quickly becomes real.


Word.
I remember watching some episodes (somewhere in the middle seasons) where Roz was barely even visible. She would have one or maybe two random, not-very-important-to-the-ep scenes and then not be seen again. I was really miffed that they weren't maximizing her potential. (BTW the one you were talking about is the 22nd episode of season 9, "Frasier Has Spokane". Roger, Roz's garbage-man boyfriend broke up with her after about 6 months or something, and she tried to act all cool about it but quickly fell apart.) I find that the entire cast was very good with the dramatic moments, which is quite refreshing. Very often we see actors (especially on sitcoms) who are great at being funny but not-so-great at being serious. And, not only was the cast very good as acting the dramatic moments, but the writers were good at creating them. I don't think it was ever forced in a "we-need-a-dramatic-scene-here" sort of way.

And this show also did a good job with the minor characters, like Gil and Bulldog, using them just enough so we didn't get sick of them.


I actually think some of the "best" episodes were only so because of the guest stars in them. Harriet Sansom Harris as Bebe comes to mind-- I love any episode she's in. I was thoroughly shocked to hear that she never won or was even nominated for an Emmy for her performance. Bebe Neuwirth as Lilith was also very entertaining, even though I never watched Cheers so I didn't know her beforehand. Even people who only appeared in one episode still manage to sick in my memory (e.g., Guy the Gay Ski Instructor from "Ski Lodge").
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#2294

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Posted Mar 13, 2012 @ 10:19 PM

Even people who only appeared in one episode still manage to sick in my memory (e.g., Guy the Gay Ski Instructor from "Ski Lodge").


One of my favorite episodes! Guy was played by James Patrick Stuart (his father is of the 60s English duo Chad and Jeremy). I have enjoyed his work since he was Will on All My Children. He was also hilarious as Perry, Linda's boyfriend on Still Standing.
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#2295

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Posted Mar 13, 2012 @ 10:58 PM

One of my favorite episodes! Guy was played by James Patrick Stuart (his father is of the 60s English duo Chad and Jeremy). I have enjoyed his work since he was Will on All My Children. He was also hilarious as Perry, Linda's boyfriend on Still Standing.


I think it's his French accent that really sells it. Especially when he says "You are not the Crane I want!", and also when he is trying to talk to Martin about his ROOM but the French-ified way he says it ("ruum") sounds like RUM and Martin gets confused because his ears are blocked and he can't hear that well anyway. The only minor complaint I have about that episode is Daphne's friend's terrible "British" accent. It's awful, as were many other guest stars' attempts to sound British (e.g., Clive from 4.1 "The Two Mrs. Cranes").


Most of my favorite episodes are the same ones everyone loves (Ham Radio, Matchmaker, Look Before You Leap, etc.), but there are some that I love that don't seem to get as much attention. For example, Season 3's "The Focus Group". The best part was Tony Shaloub (from Monk...and other things, I'm sure) guest starring as a generic Middle-Eastern guy (Manu) who is the ONE member of the focus group that didn't like Frasier or his radio show. All the other ELEVEN people loved him and had nothing but high praise, but Frasier barely even notices that because of the ONE PERSON who didn't like him. And of course, he has to know WHY he doesn't like him, which results in Frasier stalking him, accidentally pouring hot chocolate on his pants, crushing his hand under a door and eventually burning down his whole newsstand. The last scene just kills me:

MANU: All this because you had to know why I do not like you.
FRASIER: Well, you were kinda vague.
MANU: You want to know why? I'll tell you why. I think you are a smarty pants. I was too polite to say that before, but then you spied on me, you stalked me, you badgered me, you poured Yoo-Hoo down my Dockers, you crunched my hand. And then, as if all that was not enough, you burned down my newsstand, my livelihood, a gift to me from my beloved uncle-- may he rest in peace.
FRASIER: Was that so hard?

It's funny enough on its own, but the accent that Tony Shaloub does (I think maybe it's supposed to be Pakistani?) makes it 1000X funnier. I very nearly peed myself watching that for the first time.
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#2296

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 1:37 AM

Guy was played by James Patrick Stuart

He was also the Prada store manager in the Sex & the City ep when Carrie takes Berger to the the store.
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#2297

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 7:19 AM

I think it's his French accent that really sells it. Especially when he says "You are not the Crane I want!"


And Frasier's comeback of "You're not even the SEX I want!"

Hee!!
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#2298

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 7:29 AM

Guy was played by James Patrick Stuart

He was also the Prada store manager in the Sex & the City ep when Carrie takes Berger to the the store.


What, nobody has mentioned that he was a regular on Andy Richter Controls the Universe? A very funny show, and his character (Keith) was great. Mr. Perfect, except for maybe his feet.

To get this post on-topic...

I never watched Frasier when it actually aired because I was too young (being two years old when it started)


Welcome, Pause Button, and I'm sure you didn't mean to depress me with your introduction, but... two years old when it started?! Meanwhile, I had already graduated from high school when its predecessor Cheers started! LOL.
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#2299

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 9:57 AM

Welcome, Pause Button, and I'm sure you didn't mean to depress me with your introduction, but... two years old when it started?! Meanwhile, I had already graduated from high school when its predecessor Cheers started! LOL.


Aw, I'm sorry. :)
But if it makes you feel any better, I actually feel kind of ripped off in that I missed out on a lot of good shows when they were actually happening. I really can't stand many of the things "my generation" watches today. (Pretty Little Liars comes to mind.)

And Frasier's comeback of "You're not even the SEX I want!"


And then at the end, when everyone accidentally ends up in the same room and the whole charade is revealed, and Frasier says, "Wait. Let me see if I can get this straight. All the LUST coursing through this lodge tonight, all the hormones virtually RICOCHETING off the walls, and...no one was chasing ME?"
The way he delivers that line is just cracks me up. In fact, I think there are many lines in this show that are only as funny as they are because of the way the actor said them.
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#2300

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 10:48 AM

Welcome, Pause Button, and I'm sure you didn't mean to depress me with your introduction, but... two years old when it started?! Meanwhile, I had already graduated from high school when its predecessor Cheers started! LOL.


I'll join you in the nursing home, rubaco. I was a senior in high school when Cheers started. I refuse to believe that someone who was only two when Frasier premiered is even old enough to know how to spell, dagnabbit!

I'll also join you on the Andy Richter Controls The Universe love. Very underrated!
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#2301

Empressv

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 2:49 PM

I think Peri Gilpin is not acknowledged enough for what she brought to the show. She had such great comedic timing, and when called for, was pretty good with the drama too. I love the scene where she and Frasier are doing the show elsewhere (was it Spokane?) and no one is calling in, so she fakes a call, which quickly becomes real.


Agreed. That episode was on Hallmark just last night and and she sold the hell out of that scene, going from "I'm just making something up to help you out, pal" to her true emotions and vulnerability in such a believable way. And the beginning of the episode, with Frasier taking the timeslot of a beloved community figure, rang very true as well. I used to be a journalist, and that was one of the most difficult situations to negotiate, as people were absolutely determined to hate the successor to someone whose work they had enjoyed.
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#2302

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 3:02 PM

I refuse to believe that someone who was only two when Frasier premiered is even old enough to know how to spell, dagnabbit!


Yeah well, I'm actually writing this from my baby crib in the nursery. So I'm really just an infant. :)
But really, I don't know of very many people "my age" who like or even have seen Frasier. (Whenever I meet people who don't like it, I usually tell myself that it just goes over their heads.)

And actually it was my mother (who IS old enough to have watched it during it's original run) who introduced me to Frasier. She just put the TV onto some re-runs one night, and I didn't want to watch it but she made me. The first episode that I saw was 2.21 "An Affair to Forget", which is the one where Niles fences with the German guy who doesn't speak English, and Frasier has to translate English into Spanish for Marta so SHE can translate into German for Gunnar (the German). It was the perfect episode for me to see because I took Spanish for four years and I currently take German, so I was absolutely ENTHRALLED. I translated the whole thing for my mother (who was watching with me) and was even more excited when I got it all right. What made me love it was that there was a combination of being very intelligent while also being entertaining. Add in the physical comedy of DHP fencing and you've got a winning combination.
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#2303

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 4:20 PM

I actually prefer this scene in Frasier to the very similar one in I Love Lucy, because overall Frasier is just a much smarter show, so the great physical comedy here shines more to me. The actors on I Love Lucy were great and it's really a very funny scene but somehow the Frasier bit is just that much more funnier to me...
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#2304

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 5:39 PM

Peri Gilpin is not acknowledged enough for what she brought to the show. She had such great comedic timing, and when called for, was pretty good with the drama too


I thought she was wonderful when she told the young guy that she was pregnant, and afterwards with Frasier after the decision's been made that she's going to raise the baby alone. First telling the dad "You can be so many things. I'm older. I am things." and the segue from not having fresh milk for Frasier's coffee to her understated, heartbreaking melt down at being a single mom who has to know everything about babies when other moms only have to know half the things, because their partner can know the other half. I cried right along with her.
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#2305

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 5:48 PM

I wonder why they decided to make Roz a single mother. They certainly never made her seem maternal during the series and, of all people, I'm sure Roz was pretty proficient at birth control. Was Peri Gilpin pregnant IRL?
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#2306

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 6:16 PM

The only children mentioned on her Wikipedia page are twin daughters born via surrogate in 2004, so I would have to assume not. The page also mentions she is godmother to Jane Leeves' daughter and Jane is godmother to one of the twins. So sweet. They seemed like a close cast and that really reverberated on the screen.
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#2307

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 7:00 PM

First telling the dad "You can be so many things. I'm older. I am things." and the segue from not having fresh milk for Frasier's coffee to her understated, heartbreaking melt down at being a single mom who has to know everything about babies when other moms only have to know half the things, because their partner can know the other half. I cried right along with her.


Oh jeez. I loved that part, too. And then Frasier's speech about what it feels like to be a parent, and how the way you love your kid feels the same as falling in love. That's one of the more serious moments that I love on this show. They appeal to the sentimental sap in me.

I wonder why they decided to make Roz a single mother. They certainly never made her seem maternal during the series and, of all people, I'm sure Roz was pretty proficient at birth control. Was Peri Gilpin pregnant IRL?


I'm not really sure WHY they did, but I think they a good job with it. It wasn't like it turned into "Roz-Is-Just-A-Single-Mother-Now" and that was her only role on the show. She basically went back to being herself, just plus her kid. And I think it did help develop her character.

Edited by Pause Button, Mar 14, 2012 @ 7:01 PM.

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#2308

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 9:30 PM

I always wonder about the scene where Alice hears the garbage truck and wants to go see "Woger". Roz tries to explain why they can't and Alice says "But I like Woger, do you like Woger?" Roz says "Yes, but... yeah." And Alice says simply "Okay." The way she says it, and the way the audience really laughs hard at a line that was cute, not funny, and the way Peri G reacts - I wonder if there were several takes and "Okay" wasn't really her line, but Peri just ran with it.

Dang that's a long sentence, hope it makes some sense!

Edited by CrumbyButtons, Mar 14, 2012 @ 9:32 PM.

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#2309

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 9:40 PM

I read an interview with Kelsey Grammer several years ago when he admitted the whole pregnancy arc was because they wanted to give Peri an SL and couldn't come up with any other solution (see: Miranda on SATC).
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#2310

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Posted Mar 14, 2012 @ 10:11 PM

I always wonder about the scene where Alice hears the garbage truck and wants to go see "Woger". Roz tries to explain why they can't and Alice says "But I like Woger, do you like Woger?" Roz says "Yes, but... yeah." And Alice says simply "Okay." The way she says it, and the way the audience really laughs hard at a line that was cute, not funny, and the way Peri G reacts - I wonder if there were several takes and "Okay" wasn't really her line, but Peri just ran with it.


That scene is from "Love Stinks", where Roz breaks up with Roger because she was embarrassed about him being a garbage man.
I think when Roz starts to say "Yes, but..." she is about to explain something to Alice or give her a reason for why they can't be together, and when she says "...yeah" she's realizing that she DOES still like Roger and they should be together. Then, when Alice says "okay" it seems to me like she's saying "Okay, so shouldn't you be with him?" (in a five-year-old way, of course), and that convinces Roz to go out and get back together with Roger.

But I suppose that little girl could have made a mistake. After all, she is only like 5.

I read an interview with Kelsey Grammer several years ago when he admitted the whole pregnancy arc was because they wanted to give Peri an SL and couldn't come up with any other solution


This might be a REALLY dumb question, but what does "SL" mean? I've never seen it before.
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