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Dodge! Perry! Who? Woefully Neglected Chris


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#1

ladyrott

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Posted Jan 2, 2004 @ 12:56 PM

Paternity isn't something that should be dragged out for weeks; only soap operas do that, and even they suck at it...


ITA! Howver, I am not sure that the writers at Charmed really meant for us to be debating Chris' parantage at all, up until the revelation that he was half whitelighter and half witch. I get the feeling that, at times, they dont give us viewers credit for having the imagination to think outside of whatever information they are feeding us. I somehow imagine the group of them sitting around writing the episode where we find out Chris is half and half and congratulating themselves on having thrown the audience for a real loop with that information.

#2

ionee24

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Posted Jan 2, 2004 @ 7:07 PM

...I am not sure that the writers at Charmed really meant for us to be debating Chris' parantage at all, up until the revelation that he was half whitelighter and half witch. I get the feeling that, at times, they dont give us viewers credit for having the imagination to think outside of whatever information they are feeding us...

Ha! they don't know what we are capable of ;) this former 12 year old, for example, can go violent if Leo & Piper won't get back together in the end.

ETA:...but in a nice way, you know "Murphy Brown" style. Just expect lots and lots of pizzas ;)

Edited by ionee24, Jan 2, 2004 @ 7:11 PM.


#3

Bitterswete

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Posted Jan 3, 2004 @ 5:03 AM

I don't think the writers think they are dragging anything out because, as far as they are concerned, they haven't really asked the question yet. I get the feeling one of the main purposes of "Chris Crossed" was to, once and for all, let the viewers know Chris isn't Wyatt. And, while they might have planted clues in that episode about who he will turn out to be (and maybe in episodes before that) it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't expect most people to really get them, or their significance. Instead, they are there so that, if Chris turns out to be the second son, we can look back and see how the writers cleverly built up to it, so we can't accuse them of dumping it on us out of the blue.

Until the question ("Is Chris the second son?") is overtly asked on the show, and they then spend 10 episodes not telling us one way or another, I don't think you can accuse them of dragging the story out. Not yet.

You know, I wonder if anyone from the show visited the boards after "Chris Crossed". It wouldn't surprise me if they were all kinds of shocked that the Second Son Theory was being talked about so much.

Edited by Bitterswete, Jan 3, 2004 @ 5:04 AM.


#4

DiePhoebeDie

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Posted Jan 3, 2004 @ 8:15 AM

Until the question ("Is Chris the second son?") is overtly asked on the show, and they then spend 10 episodes not telling us one way or another, I don't think you can accuse them of dragging the story out. Not yet.


That's the same mistake soap operas make: they treat their audience like idiots who aren't capable of hypothesizing about a possible outcome to a plot or a recently introduced character's "fit" with the rest of the show.

Do they think their viewers aren't speculating?

If you accept that (of course) they know we're speculating, then the question has already been asked; whether or not the stoopidly, one-dimensionally written primary characters haven't tripped over dead Mr. Green, brained with the candlestick in the Conservatory yet. (See on Soap operas, a whole week would go by before Mr. Green was noticed, and only because of all the flies attracted to the rotting corpse. This would be followed by lots of carrying on, wailing and lamenting, followed by a four-month-long investigation where everyone is accused of the murder...sorry. Days of Our Lives really sucks lately. I digress.)

#5

Bitterswete

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Posted Jan 3, 2004 @ 12:32 PM

When I say, "Until the question is overtly asked on the show," I don't mean the moment when the Ps and Leo might start suspecting something. I mean the moment when something happens that's designed to make the viewers ask the question. And that hasn't really happened yet. I mean, we haven't seen Chris pull out a picture of Piper and Leo with two young boys. If they did something like that, every fan would start thinking, "Hmmm, could Chris be..." At the moment, the second son theory is just speculation that isn't definatively supported by anything that's happened on the show. There have been hints, but those hints could be dismissed as nothing if Chris turns out not to be the second son.

The difference between the "Is Chris the Second Son?" thing, and Mr. Green's corpse going undiscovered for 2 weeks, is that the writers have already shown the viewers the latter. We know he's dead and lying there. We see various characters almost find him, but not. Every viewer knows what's going on.

By contrast, while fans on the boards have been speculating on who Chris is for a month, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of fans out there haven't. My own cousin didn't even think of it until I mentioned it to her. And, just today, I was reading the feedback for a "Second Son" fic where one responder said something like, "I never even thought of Chris being Piper's son."

Now if, in the next episode, Chris pulls out that picture, but they leave us hanging until the end of the season, when the Ps and Leo finally find out he's a Halliwell, then you could accuse them of dragging the storyline out.

#6

tvjunkie

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Posted Jan 3, 2004 @ 12:50 PM

I remember reading that either Drew or Kern said that the audience would know who Chris was before the P's. I remember thinking, don't we always.

Does anyone else remember this?

#7

ionee24

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Posted Jan 3, 2004 @ 3:59 PM

I do, It was in the profile of Chris chracter in the WB web page, there's also the link to an article in which Kern let us know about his "eeevil plan" regarding the Chris character.

ETA: I agree with Bitterswete; the question about the secon son has not overtaken this show cuz technically only the posters on these boards have ask it (Maybe the "Who is Chris" debate did, but not the second son theory). I don't even think it's posible that Piper would have a second son the first time around to begin with. Not to mention the way Chris handle the Ps was waaaay too risky for someone who’s dealing with his own family here. I mean, if Chris was the second son wouldn’t have been easier for him to just go upfront and say: "Hi Mon & Dad! I’m the son you will have in couple of months (years as this is going) my big baby brother right here’ll become a mean psycho that’ll take over the world and become the reason why ‘I never knew my family’. Dad: we have more issues than Connor and Angel ever did but we’ve got to work together so get over it and go to Valhalla! (Don’t forget the Gladiator custome on your way out) Mom: I adore you cuz I lost you when I was very young so don’t freak out if I follow you around like a puppy for the next couple of seasons. Oh! And when daddy ask your permission to become an Elder…get over it and don’t break up with him! (Geez, I haven’t even born yet). Aunts if mine: Trust me! Feel free to scan me with your shiny new empath power (ooops!) and/or me sense me with the WL sense for I am your blood related nephew."

No lies, no problems, no questions asked, no TKs to Valhalla to win the Ps trust and no splitting the parent before his conception. But most of all NO risky “little spell thingys” that’d backfire just when they needed Piper the most, all he had to do was say the magic words: second son. And half of his mission would have been done.

It gets even worst if Chris is the second son but doesn’t even know it yet cuz he can’t take for a fact that he wasn’t related. Specially if Wyatt did took him under his wing at some point; that sociopath wouldn’t protect some random half whatever orphan just because so there’s got to be a connection between them, aside from the obvious "he likes to surround himself with power" one. Not to mention there's NO WAY Piper "supermom" Halliwell would just leave him like that and MUCH LESS to run away with the other. Not the Piper who would rather die than let evil stepmom take Wyatt on "The day that magic dies", nu huh!

Edited by ionee24, Jan 3, 2004 @ 4:12 PM.


#8

Jael

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Posted Jan 3, 2004 @ 4:11 PM

It was Drew in an interview he did when he first arrived on the show. The thing is, I'm not sure that "who he is" hasn't changed since his arrival. I kind of think originally he was supposed to be Wyatt and the P's would be thrown off and not suspect anything because he still has powers.

The thing is, since in Chris Crossed, we found out that Chris has powers in the past because of a spell and there were a lot of anvilicious lines in the show, how come the P's didn't suspect he was Wyatt after that episode?

Why don't we ever see them even speculate as to who he is? I don't expect anyone to hit the nail on the head or anything, but they should at least wonder.

I also wonder what the rationale will be for keeping Chris on the show after the Prince Charmed episode because it seems like he completes his mission in that ep.

#9

ionee24

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Posted Jan 3, 2004 @ 4:14 PM

Actually, that's when his mission begins; Piper will kick Chris out of the house, there's no evidence any of the Ps belive him and for what it looks like, the evil headmaster that will become the Snape to Wyatt's harry Potter will try to win him over now that "Sirius Chris" will become "The prisoner of Azkaban" All in all, not so bad.

Edited by ionee24, Jan 3, 2004 @ 4:15 PM.


#10

Zippix

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Posted Jan 4, 2004 @ 5:27 PM

I also wonder what the rationale will be for keeping Chris ....


Probably that he needs the Power of Three to send him back to the future and at least one of them probably won't be fully aware of his identity.

#11

ionee24

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 4:07 PM

As long as he doesn't wear one of those stupid "Witchstruck" outfits this Sunday!

Edited by ionee24, Jan 7, 2004 @ 4:07 PM.


#12

Pessimist

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 1:14 PM

I have conceived (pardon the bad pun) a possible explanation for Chris sending Leo to Valhalla.

I'm assuming that most of the Elders had to die in order for Chris' timeline to actually occur. It's possible that Leo still became an Elder, even with the death of Paige, and Goddess!Piper still saved the day. However, with the Charmed Ones gone, Elder!Leo had to stay Up There and plan how to fight evil without the most powerful witches of all time. Thus, Leo by necessity may have been gone for months at a time without returning. When he did finally return (possibly having given up his Elderhood in an effort to keep his family together), Piper and Leo did the whole reunion thing and Chris was conceived.

*See below for my theory on what happened following this reunion.

So, switch back to the new timeline. Chris saved Paige and Leo still became an Elder. However, Chris may have been under the impression that Leo had to be gone for a while in order to allow for his conception to occur. Thus, Chris rushed to find a way to make sure Leo was missing for a couple of months and arranged for Leo to be a prisoner in Valhalla for a couple of months. What he may not have counted on was that Piper and Leo were meant to be together in the end to conceive him, whether or not Leo was missing or present during the months between The Titan attack and his conception.

*On a side note, my theory for Leo abandoning Chris in the future is that he ended up having no choice and went back to being an Elder because the initial plan to make up for Paige dying never succeeded. Leo, Piper and Phoebe ended up dead, Wyatt ended up evil and Chris was raised by a pack of wild wolves (or something like that--take your pick for that part). So, according to my little theory, Leo did initially abandon Chris and gave him serious daddy issues.

Whew. Does all that make sense?

Edited to throw in spoilers. Most of this is speculation, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Edited by Pessimist, Jan 8, 2004 @ 1:20 PM.


#13

ionee24

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 2:44 PM

Too risky.

If Chris never knew his family cuz he was abandoned he had no way to know his real birth or conception dates. Now, it's possible that Leo did become an Elder in every time line but in Chris original one Piper never became a Goddess or else the Titans would have never had the chance to rule the earth to begin with. Nor Chris would have come back. Plus, Piper would have never abanoned any of her babies, not in "The day that magic dies" and not ever, she would rather die first.

I fear that whitout Leo and/or Piper Wyatt just got tired to run and went evil after evil until he cross the line and lost himself (in this quest for power) cuz he had no guidance. If that's so, Chris demon hunting would make sense as he was only trying to ease his burden and that's something any brother or halfbrother would do.

As this is going ...Wyatt won't be safe in the end right?

Edited by ionee24, Jan 9, 2004 @ 9:44 AM.


#14

Pessimist

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 3:09 PM

I hate to bring this up, but Chris could've easily figured out a general date for his conception based on his birthdate. Unless we're told otherwise, we can assume that he had a normal gestation period of 9 months and so it wouldn't be too hard to figure things out from there.

Also, the "raised by wolves" thing was a joke. I assumed that would be inferred. I doubt Leo would just take off without a word. One could probably safely assume that Leo could arrange for magical adoptive parents for Chris who could help him understand his heritage.

Beyond all else? That Charmed Ones Museum was damn detailed. If the COs became such huge icons, it's a safe bet to say that birth dates of their children would be recorded, if not every other detail. (Eww.) If Leo did just take off, Chris could've probably gotten every detail from there.

The theory is certainly not foolproof, and definitely risky, but I really like how it finally makes sense. To me, at least. Thank God.

#15

ionee24

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 3:34 PM

Oh no!

Pessimist don't get me wrong: I like it. It's the first semi convincing explanation I've heard in a long time (at least it's more convincing than the all the "I want Chris to be the second son cuz it would be so cute"s answers). It's just that if he was abandoned in the chaotic world he came from then his birth date may not be a certain fact (at least until he meet Wyatt), as he could not calculate his actual conception time for sure he would've been gambling with his parents separation. That's the risky part, for someone who let the Elders massacre happen according to schedule, as well as some other events in the girls lives Chris doesn't strick me as the risky type.

Lets say he had the date, he still risked his existance with the whole Piper & Leo separation unless he knew he wasn't supposed to be Leo's son to begin with or if he is he still doesn't know. Otherwise; between sending Leo to an island full of woman after making sure Leo would’ve a life-commitment job on Elderland this “second son” conception is going from difficult to impossible.

ETA: I guess the answer could be found in the speech Leo gave in OMG about how Piper’s love raise him higher to an unexpected destiny and bla bla bla; he wasn’t supposed to become an Elder the first time around, maybe he didn’t even figure out the Titans plan until after they killed Paige & took over the world and so he never “rise” and stuck with Piper until the bitter end. With no Elders to put an end to it maybe more WLs got involved with their charges, or maybe they were all killed either to get rid of any WLs with "Elder potential" or their famous orbing power. Whatever it was there was no WL guidance for Wyatt; he’d probably got tired to run and the fight for survival became the fight to overcome power after power until there was nothing left to overcome, maybe that’s what made him the psycho we knew on “Chris Crossed”.

Edited by ionee24, Jan 9, 2004 @ 9:50 AM.


#16

Demian

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Posted Jan 12, 2004 @ 8:45 PM

He sure was purty last night.

The crappy pantomime with the killer Jello needed to be gone, however.

#17

Citizen Turtle

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Posted Jan 13, 2004 @ 11:38 AM

But as soon as it started creeping up Chris's leg, I so wanted to be that killer jello. Damn.

#18

ladyrott

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Posted Jan 13, 2004 @ 1:38 PM

How interesting that Leo has suddenly decided that Chris is ok. It totally makes sense that he trusts him NOW that he has learned that Chris lied to them all, killed a valkerie and...oh wait...it DOESNT make sense. WHAT is up with this show lately?!

#19

merlynn

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Posted Jan 13, 2004 @ 3:16 PM

Actually, I think Leo is the only one who has reacted to Chris appropriately. He didn't trust him in the beginning, but learned to trust him over time. Finding out that Chris isn't all he pretended to be wasn't that much of a shock to Leo since he never fully believed his story to begin with. Instead, a bond grew between the two of them and Leo believes Chris has a good heart and is giving him some room on the other stuff (part of this may be because Leo does understand there is only so much information someone from the future can give).

Compare that to the sisters who trusted him blindly only to be shocked and appauled he wasn't telling the complete and total truth (even though they never asked any questions) and I think Leo's reaction makes a lot more sense. To Leo's credit, he has always been responding to Chris's actions rather than his words.

#20

ionee24

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Posted Jan 15, 2004 @ 8:48 AM

I agree with merlynn; Leo grew attach to Chris over the season. I think he win him over in "Soul Survivor" when he save him despite the "I WILL leave you here" speech.There's nothing like a cool Budweiser to bond with the guy who send you away to protect your first born

Edited by ionee24, Jan 15, 2004 @ 8:51 AM.


#21

Nflux Forever

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Posted Jan 18, 2004 @ 9:46 PM

Well If there was any doubt about Big Gay Chris's true identity, it pretty much ended tonight. After the hissy fit he through over Piper wanting to give up love, how could he not be Mangy Jesus's bro?

#22

DiePhoebeDie

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 6:41 AM

While this probably belongs in the speculate! thread, I don't think you can necessarily make that leap. Perhaps they are brothers, but maybe even half brothers.

That dude the girls "made" last night was hot as hell.

#23

Maracev1

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 10:08 AM

I think Chris' reaction to loosing Piper's trust and her not wanting to see him again points in the direction of him being her son. For once Drew managed to show some emotion and Chris looked really hurt. He also looked pretty annoyed and even jealous of "David". I got to say I loved it when he was banging his head against the wall, it was actually funny. Who knew?

Drew is finally growing on me. I think as time goes by and he gets more confortable with the other cast members his acting is getting better.

#24

Demian

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 10:37 AM

That dude the girls "made" last night was hot as hell.


And Big Gay Chris totally had potion sex with him. I'm so jealous.

#25

ionee24

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 2:47 PM

You and me both, I would definetely forgive Piper if she leave Leo for that stepdaddy! ;)

I think Chris' reaction to loosing Piper's trust and her not wanting to see him again points in the direction of him being her son.

Awww. he SO wanted to come back in time to be with mommy! Wyatt has nothing to do with it.

...kidding, I think he's so endearing I don't undertand why Piper wouldn't just take him back, if I were his mother he would so be my favorite son

Edited by ionee24, Jan 19, 2004 @ 7:05 PM.


#26

DiePhoebeDie

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 5:16 PM

You and me both, I would definetely forget Piper if she leave Leo for that stepdaddy! ;)


You meant "forgive" not "forget," right?

I'm beginning to understand 'ioneeSpeak.'
I think.

#27

Maracev1

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 5:16 PM

I don't undertand why Piper wouldn't just take him back

Perhaps because he almost got her son killed and she doesn't know Chris is her son too.

#28

Cynthia187

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 5:31 PM

Piper is going to feel really bad about how she treated Chris when she finds out who he is...

#29

ionee24

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 7:11 PM

Perhaps because he almost got her son killed and she doesn't know Chris is her son too.

Please, like nobody has ever try to kill his brother before?. I agree with Cynthia187; Piper is gonna regret the moment she kicked her youngest off her side. Specially if Chris is the one to die in the season finale, they should embrace their few moments together instead of fight because of Mangy Jesus.

Well, at least Wyatt trust him now.

Edited by ionee24, Jan 19, 2004 @ 7:12 PM.


#30

Zippix

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Posted Jan 19, 2004 @ 7:20 PM

I think if Chris does die in the finale, it'll be after he saves Wyatt from turning evil. So he'd have done what he set out to, but also in the new, altered timeline he wouldn't die at the same time, because if Wyatt never went evil in the first place, there'd be no need to go back in time to save him.

If that makes any sense.