745 replies to this topic

[boomersmommy]

Sure, there are a few sites that have the lyrics. Here's one: Lyrics.

Thank you so much. I loved both songs, but it was a pleasant surprise the first time I heard Carroll sing "Remembering You."

Edited by boomersmommy, Jan 2, 2004 @ 9:41 PM.

[brandmed]

I finally got the first season DVDs for Christmas. I really wish they had a "play all" feature and even a few special features. But it is still so nice to have the episodes in their original form. I fell in love with this show when it began airing on Nick at nite/TV Lnad a few years ago. My dad and his dad had always told me it was their favorite show and now it is one of mine. In fact, my dad gave me and my grandpa the DVDs for Christmas. Now I just have to get the other seasons that are out.

Just saw "Edith's 50th Birthday" two-parter on the TV Land minimarathon. I still have to cheer everytime Edith gets away from that guy.

[NicoleMN6]

I never saw the second part of the "Edith almost gets raped" episode -- what happens???

[brandmed]

Archie, Michael, and Gloria find out what happens. Mike and Archie go check the house to make sure he's not still there which provides much of the comedy part of this episode. The police come and say they picked up a guy a few blocks away in just his t-shirt and they want Edith to go down and identify him. She refuses and is very scared and distraught over everything. Gloria keeps trying to talk to her and convince her it's not her fault, she will be helping others, etc. Gloria also mentions her attack. Edith slaps her and then they both cry and make up. Edith goes to identify the man.

I actually missed the end of this one today as I had to leave and go do something so I missed the main Edith-Gloria confrontation with the slap and all. But if I remember correctly that is how it went down mostly.

[Eegah]

The reaction to that episode was so strong that the actor who played the rapist often faced slaps and threats to beat him up whenever he was recognized. It's bad enough his name was David Dukes, I can't imagine how bad it was to have the stigma of trying to rape a fictional character on top of it.

[NicoleMN6]

And then he went on to be Gay Jack's dad on Dawson's Creek, where he inspired a whole new generation to want to slap him and beat him up on the street!! :-)

And then he died and somehow Jack and absent Andie just had off-screen parents or something. :-(

Edited by NicoleMN6, Jan 6, 2005 @ 8:19 PM.

[Mibbitmaker]

One of my favorite scenes is coming on tonight (in about 35 minutes post-time), from part two of the Edith loses faith episode.

In the religion-oriented arguments usually ammount to Archie being an especially clueless fundamentalist, Mike straddling between conscientious and intolerant in his atheism... but it's Edith who represents faith in its best light. I tend to side with her on this topic, though Mike is meant to be sympathetic most of the time, too (one character for fans who believe, one for those who don't....... and, of course, Archie!)

In the scene in question, it's one of my favorite Mike moments, when he and Edith have their talk that helps resolve the storyline. It's refreshing to see him so understanding towards someone on the other side of his lack-of-beliefs (Archie could never inspire that). just a nice scene.

Edited by Mibbitmaker, Jan 6, 2005 @ 9:56 PM.

[Meedis]

The reaction to that episode was so strong that the actor who played the rapist often faced slaps and threats to beat him up whenever he was recognized. It's bad enough his name was David Dukes, I can't imagine how bad it was to have the stigma of trying to rape a fictional character on top of it.

Wow. I didn't know this. But I do remember when seeing that how upset I became and yes, I cheered when Edith managed to get away. So I can imagine some folks not able to separate fiction from reality and when seeing him, wanting to smack the dude. And David Dukes, niiiiice!

[fernsehen]

Mibbitmaker: In the scene in question, it's one of my favorite Mike moments, when he and Edith have their talk that helps resolve the storyline. It's refreshing to see him so understanding towards someone on the other side of his lack-of-beliefs (Archie could never inspire that). just a nice scene.

I wasn't surprised, though, and I remember seeing this in its first run. Mike loved and respected Edith. He didn't call her "Ma" for nothing. She was able to accept people for the good in them, like Beverly LaSalle and Louise Jefferson--and Archie.

I couldn't find the quote on IMDb, but when the Jeffersons moved to the deluxe apartment in the sky, Edith and Louise had a goodbye scene. Edith said something like, "Did I ever tell you I loved you?" Louise replied something like, "Every day we were together."

Is there some way we can have Jean Stapleton declared a national treasure?

[Inquisitionist]

I stayed up later than I should have last night watching Edith's Crisis of Faith. So touching.

[Quag]

I finally got Season One on dvd, and I find that I still like this show after all these years but for different reasons.

I like Archie more, Mike less, and I'm baffled by Edith's behavior. I remember her being a bit dingy, but I used to think Archie was just being mean. I still think he's too mean to her at times, but Edith really was that dingy.

One character I didn't really remember the first time around but that I've grown to loathe this time is Lionel. Gah, I can't stand when he shows up. First, the guy who plays Lionel can't act for $h!t; second, he's so arrogant and cocky, it's grating. I know he's supposed to be hamming up to make fun of and foil Archie; but he ends up just looking dumb, and I don't see how it brings Archie and his antiquated beliefs any closer to being improved, much less changed.

I wonder if the less popular years will be released on dvd as well. I abandoned the show at some point before it limped its way to the end, so I'd like to see the whole series, even the Archie's Place years.

[Hanna-Reetta]

We've had the show on reruns - not the whole thing, but some seasons (I'm gusessing the very first ones). I missed this the first time around and was intrigued to see the show that I was too young to see earlier (I was born '79). What surprises me is the topics they discuss - racism, homophobia, computers etc - which still seem to be very up-to-date. My Mom and Dad say that my Grandpa was just like Archie in many things.

I so love the episode where they play "Group Therapy", and Mike has to take some criticism for once. First Lionel tells him that he's too focused on his race - probably feels terrible to someone trying very hard to be non-racist, but that's how it often is when you try too hard. It shows. Then Edith criticizes him for being too arrogant with Archie: "If you really were smarter, you'd be smart enough not to show it." Mike gets all upset at everyone 'ganging up on him', but in the end of the episode, Edith tells her that Archie is really only envious of him bc of his possibilities in life - Archie had to leave school to take care of his mother - and that Mike hates Archie because he owes him so much money that it makes him concerned he'll never be able to pay him back.

I really loved that episode, because it shows how truly wise Edith was behind all her "dingbat" behaviour. And while I enjoyed the whole "Archie is a bigot" thing, since it's so true of many older men, I think it was nice to see Mike being called on for his attitude problems for once.

It's really my favourite episode of the ones I've seen.

[Quag]

Lionel tells him that he's too focused on his race - probably feels terrible to someone trying very hard to be non-racist, but that's how it often is when you try too hard. It shows.

IMO the show is far more ham-handed and preachier than I remembered; and when he and Gloria both start in on Archie, it gets to be a bit much.

Edith tells her that Archie is really only envious of him bc of his possibilities in life - Archie had to leave school to take care of his mother - and that Mike hates Archie because he owes him so much money that it makes him concerned he'll never be able to pay him back.

Interesting perspective Edith has, but it seems a little off to me. I wouldn't have guessed that Archie was jealous at all. Archie seemed to be proud of his work ethic. I thought he didn't like Mike because of his politics and his unwillingness to work to provide for himself and Gloria while going to school. I'm also not convinced that Mike hated Archie because he owed him money. If Mike had gotten along with Archie, I don't think it would have bothered him so much that he owed money. I always thought Mike didn't like Archie because he thought he was a bigot. And for all their fighting, I was never convinced that Mike and Archie really hated each other; but when someone you don't agree with on practically anything is underfoot all. the. time, it's bound to cause arguments--especially from two opinionated, outspoken people.

I really loved that episode, because it shows how truly wise Edith was behind all her "dingbat" behaviour. And while I enjoyed the whole "Archie is a bigot" thing, since it's so true of many older men, I think it was nice to see Mike being called on for his attitude problems for once.

Any ep that will allow Edith to be a little less dingbatty is fine with me. I can't wait to see this ep. I wonder what season it's in.

[Hanna-Reetta]

According to TV Tome, It's season 4 and an episode called The Games Bunkers Play.

About Archie and Mike, I think their differences do have something to do with it. It seems many young men are zealous of their beliefs and constantly want to debat with others, yet not allow for others' opinions, like Mike does. On the other hand, older people are more set on their views and tend to see new ideas as something of a threat, like Archie does.

You're also right about Archie's work ethics. But who knows, maybe he did want to be something other than he is and never had the chance to explore it. After all, he's always complaining about Mike studying. There could be something there. My grandpa was a very talented man, and my mom always said that if he hadn't been so poor, he would have become a priest, but as it was, he became an electrician. He was seemingly happy with his life and never complained, but maybe it was there somewhere, the idea of what could have been. I think it's plausible that many older people have these kinds of regrets.

And maybe Archie is just generally a difficult person and any husband of Gloria's would have been a problem to him. Maybe he even shows love by being a jerk - see how he treats his wife, and yet when she had menopause he was so nice to her. If you compare him to a similar modern husband, Red Forman in That 70's Show, I think he's much nicer to both his wife and his kids, and shows some real respect underneath the rough exterior. Whereas Red is written as being just plain mean. I dunno if it's a bad comparison, but that's what came to mind.

[Josette]

I mentioned that episode on page 1 of this thread. I won't repeat what I said, I'll just link to it. And yes, I notice that I misspelled accidentally. Darn it!

[espie]

Did anybody see the "One Hundred Greatest TV Characters" show on one of the dish channels last weekend? It could have been a repeat, but it was the first time I saw it. Archie Bunker was #1.

We used to watch the first-run episodes every Saturday night while we were eating dinner; it was the only time we brought the TV into the kitchen (where the table was). My mother loved it because she often thought Archie was right... I didn't agree, but being a little kid at the time it was kind of hard to argue with grown-ups. I still love watching the eps (at least the ones up until Gloria and Mike moved next door).

[Eegah]

There was one other great episode where Mike had to face the reality of his beliefs. He's up for a promotion, and his competitor for the job is black. Suddenly Mike realizes that he may very well lose out on the job (which he eventually does) simply because the company wants to show that they're willing to hire black people. The point is made wonderfully, and in a rather subtle way too. It was easy for Mike to criticize Archie when he didn't have a job and was living off someone else, but out in the real world where he actually has to worry about where his next paycheck will come from, he realizes his idealism is just as shoddy as Archie's bigotry.

[Eegah]

Damn.

Edited by Eegah, Feb 17, 2005 @ 10:52 AM.

[vegasbaby]

I forget which episode(s) it (they) was (were), but when Archie flirted with the woman (and Edith talks about another guy she was courting when she was courting Archie, maybe I made that up?), and then he apologizes and tells her how sincerely he loves and needs her, I get all verklempt.

Why did everyone tell Gloria not to report her attack? I think Mike also got mugged at the subway station at one point. Crime-ridden 1970s Queens and all.

[Eegah]

The near-adultery episode also has a line that was way ahead of its time. Archie's friends are daring him to have an affair, and he says, "What do I look like, a congressman?" Somewhat out of character with his love for the US government, but I fell off my chair anyway.

[dustylil]

The comment wasn't really ahead of its time. There were a couple of scandals involving politicians and their ladyfriends in the mid-seventies. The most famous in October 1974 involved the powerful (and married) Congressman Wilbur Mills, Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, who was involved in a drunken incident with his girlfriend the wonderfully named Fanne Foxe, an Argentinian stripper.

[fernsehen]

Hanna-Reetta According to TV Tome, It's season 4 and an episode called The Games Bunkers Play.

About Archie and Mike, I think their differences do have something to do with it. It seems many young men are zealous of their beliefs and constantly want to debat with others, yet not allow for others' opinions, like Mike does. On the other hand, older people are more set on their views and tend to see new ideas as something of a threat, like Archie does.

Their differences and their generations. Men Archie's age grew up in a very different time than men Mike's age. World War II wasn't controversial the way the Vietnam War was. And working-class white men Archie's age were more directly threatened by the postwar social changes than, say, white-collar men. Also, Archie grew up during the Great Depression and Mike grew up in a much more prosperous time.

You're also right about Archie's work ethics. But who knows, maybe he did want to be something other than he is and never had the chance to explore it. After all, he's always complaining about Mike studying.

Archie had to quit school to support his family, which ended a lot of options. Mike may have taken going to college for granted (if he thought about it), being an intelligent high-school graduate in the late '60s.

If you compare him to a similar modern husband, Red Forman in That 70's Show, I think he's much nicer to both his wife and his kids, and shows some real respect underneath the rough exterior. Whereas Red is written as being just plain mean. I dunno if it's a bad comparison, but that's what came to mind. 

AITF is much more nuanced than That 70's Show, and Red is much more a one-note character. Red's also in a teen-centered show, which Archie isn't.

[espie]

I loved Archie’s mangled Bible stories… like "Sampson took a jawbone outta the grass and slew the army of the Philippines". He also claimed Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt while leaving Sodom and Gomorrah because "she stopped to look at her behind".

[veryoldperson]

Those were great lines, espie, there were so many like those!

And perhaps Mike would be a conservative today? I remember a media class in college taught by the brother of one of the writers of the Dick Van Dyke show (phew), and I stood up to register my horror of the use of derogatory names used in this show.

What a starry-eyed little twit I was in 1972.

[Sarcastico]

Why did everyone tell Gloria not to report her attack? I think Mike also got mugged at the subway station at one point. Crime-ridden 1970s Queens and all.

Because if she had had to testify at a trial, the defense would have taken the angle that she was "asking for it" by wearing a short skirt, by walking alone near a construction site, etc. That was pretty standard back then. Any woman who was raped or sexually assaulted had "brought it on herself." IIRC, in that epi it was the policeman, played by the always-great Charles Durning, who talked Gloria out of pressing charges by telling her what she would be up against in court: that she would be the one on trial.

[Contralto]

And perhaps Mike would be a conservative today?

Probably not. The long-term irony of the show was that Archie did evolve -- kicking and screaming all the way, to be sure -- while Mike was the dinosaur who couldn't adapt to a changing world. When Reagan was elected, he grabbed a coed and ran for a commune.

[espie]

Gotta share: I made my first trip to Washington DC last week and I saw Archie and Edith's chairs at the Smithsonian! Right down the hall was stuff like a uniform George Washington once wore... but no, the really big crowd was standing around the case with these nondescript chairs in 'em. Ah, memories...

[vegasbaby]

How did her performance change? It's interesting how an actor's approach to a role changes over time (think of how Jason Alexander played George Costanza overly Woody-Allen-ish in early Seinfeld eps).

Fanne Foxe, an Argentinian stripper.

Oh man, you can't make that shit up!

Thanks for the answer, Sarcastico. I didn't know the situation surrounding Gloria's attack. Interesting how it contrasts later with Edith's "not asking for it" attack.