kemal, I don't think anyone on these threads would deny that Dawson has performed some good acts. What is generally questioned is the motivation behind those acts. For example, the anti-prom. Dawson tried to make his friends, and most importantly, Joey, think that he was organizing this as an attempt to support Jack. What he told his parents, and eventually told Joey, was that it was a way to try to win her back.
I see Dawson as having two primay motivations:
1. Doing things that are designed to get what he wants; and,
2. Doing things that he believes a wunderkind should do.
The motivation is always all about Dawson. Period. He thinks he is better than everyone else. He wants people to praise him for being better than everyone else. He holds everyone else in disregard, even Joey, the woman of his dreams. Oh, except when Jen was the woman of his dreams -- until he found out she was a horrible, horrible, crackhead whore. Then Jen became yet another piece of shit.
What bugs me most about Dawson is that he is obviously thought to be enviable by TPTB. Everyone wants his approval. Everyone seeks out his opinion. Everyone dies on the inside if turns his back on them.
Why? My guess it that it's simply the revenge of the nerdy powers that be. But it's not even enough that Dawson and his band of fellow social outcasts get to look down on the popular people, the jocks, and the cheerleaders. No. That's not enough. Dawson, the king of the social outcasts, has to look down upon his lowly minions.
GoodNightMoon, nailed it right on the head. Dawson wasn't the cool guy who took pity on the outcasts. He was an outcast, himself. Someone had to rise to the top of that little pyramid, and it was Dawson. So he used his "friends" to make himself feel better. Please see the 16th birthday rant for explicit details. See his drunken rant against Joey following the death of the Flash. It's all there in living color.
Unfortunately for Dawson, something happened during the six year run of Dawson's Creek. His friends grew up, while he remained the king of the outcasts. So he ends up alone, still king of the outcasts, still the wunderkind, but with no one to care about him except Joey and Pacey, who inexplicably allow him, their former lord and master, to have a place in their lives. Or should I say "IN THEIR LIFE", because their lives are now melded as one.
That, my friends, is irony. Oh, it's also justice.
Dawson: Love to Hate Him
Started by
TripleMaster
, Jan 01 2004 11:28 AM
1849 replies to this topic
#1
Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 11:28 AM
#2
Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 3:16 PM
Unfortunately for Dawson, something happened during the six year run of Dawson's Creek.
Although it was a six year run eleven years went by, the five year later finale, which only makes Dawson seem even more pathetic, IMO.
I noyiced that if you fast forward through all the Dawson only scenes the whole series becomes alot better. Hell, in season six you can fast forward through pretty much every scene that he's in and you won't miss out on anything overly important.
#3
Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 6:22 PM
You're so right, Hex. Silly me!Although it was a six year run eleven years went by, the five year later finale, which only makes Dawson seem even more pathetic, IMO.
Edited by TripleMaster, Jan 1, 2004 @ 6:23 PM.
#4
Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 11:15 PM
Does anyone remember in S2 when everyone took that purity test and Dawson looked at Joeys test and then yelled at her because he thought that she may have loved someone other than him? He thought that the very idea that Joey may love Jack was absurd! Jack was over a billion times a greater boyfriend to Joey than Dawson has ever been and at that point in the series there was no reason not to love Jack, IMO.
#5
Posted Jan 1, 2004 @ 11:27 PM
Hex, I actually have to offend Dawson in the All Nighter with the purity test. I only defending him about the Jack stuff. I mean, Joey just met Jack. I could understand why he would say that. Dawson is still an ass. Did you see the smug look he gives Pacey when Andie finds out about Miss Jacobs? See, the Dawson hate's back. Want to know something sad. When Joey said she fell in love twice, I was hoping she would say Pacey even then. I was always a PJer.
#6
Posted Jan 2, 2004 @ 7:53 PM
Hex, Dawson thought the very idea that Joey could love *anyone other than him* was absurd. See his reaction to PJ in TLD. Not to mention his indifference at AJ...not because he didn't care (or at least, so we are to think), but because he didn't perceive him - or anyone else - as a viable threat to DJ4eva.He thought that the very idea that Joey may love Jack was absurd!
I HATE the Asshat.
#7
Posted Jan 2, 2004 @ 8:41 PM
It almost makes me wish that Jack wasn't gay so that Dawson could have been shown just how wrong he is and Pacey could have hooked up with Jen.
#8
Posted Jan 23, 2004 @ 8:50 PM
When Dawson manipulated his mother into not having an abortion...evil, twisted little demon. I loved that he made it All About Him, and actually thought he had a say in matter. I mean, the kid was cute, but I would have preferred Gail reaching the decision on her own, instead of having Dawson sulking and pouting until he got his own way.
#9
Posted Jan 23, 2004 @ 9:38 PM
When Dawson manipulated his mother into not having an abortion
And there's something wrong with that? Would you want YOUR own mother killing your little brother or sister? Yes, I am anti-abortion.
#10
Posted Jan 24, 2004 @ 6:32 PM
But it's not Dawson's decision to make; it's his parents'. And Mitch explicitly stated that he was leaving it to Gale. So it is her call, and hers alone, as abortion is legal.
#11
Posted Jan 24, 2004 @ 7:29 PM
And there's something wrong with that?
Yes, actually. There is something very wrong with inflicting your own personal morals upon other people and expecting them to adhere to your own personal beliefs, IMO.
It's all about respect.
And it would seem a strange argument to make coming from someone who obviously feels so strongly about tolerance and a person's right to have their own beliefs.
Oh...I'm talking about Dawson, of course.
#12
Posted Jan 25, 2004 @ 1:21 AM
Yes, actually. There is something very wrong with inflicting your own personal morals upon other people and expecting them to adhere to your own personal beliefs, IMO.
That was my point. It doesn't matter if you're anti or pro abortion. It's up to the individual, and not her selfish son.
The character of Dawson really reminds of Evan from Secret Life of Us. Both are the main characters, both are 'creative' souls, and both are selfish dicks.
#13
Posted Jan 25, 2004 @ 9:48 AM
Whatever.
Edited by TinaLoo, Jan 25, 2004 @ 10:08 AM.
#14
Posted Jan 25, 2004 @ 2:21 PM
I don't like to defend Dawson, but I don't think that he manipulated his mom into having the baby.
#15
Posted Jan 27, 2004 @ 1:23 AM
The final episodes recently aired in Australia - because the show was getting crappy ratings, they showed in the middle of the day during the summer holidays. I got teary at Jen's death (especially Grams' farewell), was happy Joey and Pacey finally ended up together, but I was surprised by how indifferent I was to how Dawson's life ended up. I wasn't happy that he ended up a producer and finally got his meeting with Spielberg, I wasn't unhappy that he didn't die miserable and alone - I just didn't care. And it's weird watching a show where you don't give two hoots about the main character.
#16
Posted Jan 27, 2004 @ 1:25 AM
That's probably because he wasn't REALLY the main character anymore... and hadn't been for two years.
#17
Posted Feb 10, 2004 @ 1:41 PM
. . .
Edited by avocato, Mar 30, 2007 @ 9:32 PM.
#18
Posted Feb 11, 2004 @ 12:42 AM
Loathe though I am to bump dillhole's thread to the top, I thought Miss Alli putting him in the Boyfriend Hall of Shame was worthy of it.
Off-topic, but I'm glad she put Jordan Catalano in there, too. I always liked Brian Krakow better.
Edited by Blue Castle, Feb 11, 2004 @ 12:43 AM.
#19
Posted Feb 22, 2004 @ 6:17 AM
Wow, reading through this thread has been fun. I love to see this kind of passion. It makes me wish I had watched the show so I could join in.
Long live the hate.
Long live the hate.
#20
Posted Feb 22, 2004 @ 8:42 PM
Hey, the show's still on! Please join in. Love the hate...embrace the hate...It makes me wish I had watched the show so I could join in.
#21
Posted Mar 12, 2004 @ 7:05 PM
I was watching Crime and Punishment with my dad today and at the end he mentioned that he thought Dawson was selfless. I was surprised and perplexed at why he thought so. I tried to prove him wrong but I haven't seen half of season 3, season 4, and season 6 so I'm missing a lot of Dawson's bad moments. I was wondering if you guys could point out examples of Dawson not being selfless so I can prove him wrong. Thanks!
I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but I looked through and this seemed like the best fit. If it's wrong and I need to move it somewhere else, please tell me and I'll happily move it.
I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but I looked through and this seemed like the best fit. If it's wrong and I need to move it somewhere else, please tell me and I'll happily move it.
#22
Posted Mar 12, 2004 @ 7:28 PM
The episode with the boat race is a pretty good example of Dawson being a selfish ass, also when he freaks on Jen for not being a virgin, and when he got drunk on his birthday and told everyone what he really thought of them.I was wondering if you guys could point out examples of Dawson not being selfless so I can prove him wrong. Thanks!
#23
Posted Mar 17, 2004 @ 3:38 PM
I was wondering if you guys could point out examples of Dawson not being selfless so I can prove him wrong. Thanks!
Geez, there are so many, it's tough to remember them all... they all sort of run together and pretty soon, you find yourself hardly noticing them anymore. You just know... well, because it's Dawson. But I digress... Some obvious ones that come to mind right now are of course the "legendary" ultimatum in TLD and forgetting Pacey's birthday in S2. Wait, just thought of another... using Jack's plight for his own gain in AntiProm.
#24
Posted Mar 17, 2004 @ 3:54 PM
Dawson trying to blame the fact he neglected to tell Joey he was involved with someone else before he had sex with her on HER rather than himself is a good one from season six.
Dawson trying to make his mother feel guilty for considering an abortion, and trying to convince her not to have one, all because it wasn't what HE wanted for her is another.
Besides his reaction to finding out she wasn't "pure" enough for him in season one, Dawson tellling Jen, his girlfriend at the time in season five, that she really had no business trying to offer his advice of how to deal with parental issues, a snide reference to her parental woes, making her feel bad when she was trying to be supportive is another.
Dawson telling Pacey that all he is interested in are women he can "save or screw" was another wonderful example of his selflessness, as was his snort of disbelief that Pacey and Joey could actually be in love.
His speech to Joey at the end of "True Love" is a great example, especially when he says "I could tell you that it's a huge mistake and all roads lead back to ME, ME, ME but I won't". Yeah right, you won't. He tries to make himself sound selfless, but he actually gets out the COMPLETELY selfish thing he wanted to say to her anyway.
God, I hate him.
Dawson trying to make his mother feel guilty for considering an abortion, and trying to convince her not to have one, all because it wasn't what HE wanted for her is another.
Besides his reaction to finding out she wasn't "pure" enough for him in season one, Dawson tellling Jen, his girlfriend at the time in season five, that she really had no business trying to offer his advice of how to deal with parental issues, a snide reference to her parental woes, making her feel bad when she was trying to be supportive is another.
Dawson telling Pacey that all he is interested in are women he can "save or screw" was another wonderful example of his selflessness, as was his snort of disbelief that Pacey and Joey could actually be in love.
His speech to Joey at the end of "True Love" is a great example, especially when he says "I could tell you that it's a huge mistake and all roads lead back to ME, ME, ME but I won't". Yeah right, you won't. He tries to make himself sound selfless, but he actually gets out the COMPLETELY selfish thing he wanted to say to her anyway.
God, I hate him.
#25
Posted Mar 17, 2004 @ 6:36 PM
Since I didn't watch in the primetime life I have to ask, was Dawson hated in the first run by the fans or has it taken an internet life of it's own and developed as the seasons wore on?
Did the writers think that he was a bankable, likable character or were they stuck with him since they named the show for him? I just can't image that writers sat around and saw Dawson as a reason for people to tune in after the first 11 shows.
Amazing, imagine how much better the show could have been if if hadn't been saddled with the name tied to the main character, when the "supporting characters" are much better actors and more interesting to boot.
Did the writers think that he was a bankable, likable character or were they stuck with him since they named the show for him? I just can't image that writers sat around and saw Dawson as a reason for people to tune in after the first 11 shows.
Amazing, imagine how much better the show could have been if if hadn't been saddled with the name tied to the main character, when the "supporting characters" are much better actors and more interesting to boot.
#26
Posted Mar 18, 2004 @ 11:20 AM
ITA cp1333. If the show hadn't been written around Beek, maybe they'd have gotten rid of him after the first or second season. Maybe they'd have kept Andie, too. But then they'd have lost that whole parallel to Williamson with the movie lust and the giant forehead and the blockbuster worship. Meh.
#27
Posted Mar 18, 2004 @ 3:25 PM
Let's see....I was wondering if you guys could point out examples of Dawson not being selfless so I can prove him wrong.
1. How about when Dawson got drunk and blamed Joey for the death of his father? Definitely not selfless.
2. And, there was that time that Dawson tried to record his first kiss with Jen on video.
3. How about the time that Dawson tried to make Joey confess her love for him during Detention? That was a princely moment for him. Except, not.
4. How about how he tried to buy Joey's immortal soul for the paltry price of $15,000?
5. How about Dawson "guilting" Joey into spending the night when she was uncomfortable with it -- in the pilot, for God's sake.
6. How about Dawson throwing a hissy-fit when Joey dances with Pacey in Anti-Prom, even though he came with Joey as a friend. Lying asshole!
7. Oh, yes. Dawson shits all over his father for being angry at Gale, just because she was fucking her co-anchor. Right. Mitch deserved that.
8-13. Word to everyone who mentioned the drunken rant against his friends on his 16th birthday, his selfishness during The Longest Day, his attempt to run into Pacey's boat, the permission speech in True Love, the undisclosed girlfriend while fucking Joey through the hole in the sheet, the mistreatment of Jen when he learns she is not a virgin.
14. His smug hypocrisy concerning his virginity while getting the blow job from Eve, and shopping for condoms.
15. His total selfishness concerning his ownership of Joey during the dance lessons in Four to Tango.
16. His hissy-fit about the choice of computer his dad was buying for him.
17. The fact that he kept trying to lead Gretchen on about his love for her when he was still holding a torch for Joey.
18. The way he was willing to use another girl (Mary Beth?) to make one last play for Jen in Double Date.
19. The way he takes a giant dump on Grams, of all people, when she tried to comfort him following his father's death. Really, really, really nice, Dawson!
20. The way he laughs at Joey entering the Miss Windjammer pageant, then goes all goo-goo eyed when she looks beautiful and competes well.
21. The way he encouraged Pacey to enter the Miss Windjammer pageant when his real motivation was to try to get a film on TV.
22. The way he risked his father's coaching career (I know, implausible) with the film about Jack, the gay wide receiver!
23. The closing speach in the finale, when he claims his tortured relationship with Joey transcends any other relationship! More than friends, more than lovers, indeed. Not.
24. The fact that every film he ever made was about himself, except the one about Mr. Brooks. Oh, but that story turned out to have been all about Dawson, as well. What a coincidence.
25. Hating Joey because Jack kissed her.
I could go on and on, but 25 reasons should be enough to make your case, crisium.
#28
Posted Mar 18, 2004 @ 3:27 PM
Sorry, I wondered how people managed to insert double posts. Now I know!
Edited by TripleMaster, Mar 18, 2004 @ 3:28 PM.
#29
Posted Mar 18, 2004 @ 5:10 PM
I only recently found this show in syndication, but it has not taken long for me to absolutely loathe Dawson. What a self-absorbed condescending prick disguised as a nice guy. He even treats his own parents like inferior infants. I can't believe there was ever a question in Joey's mind about dumping him for Pacey. And the guilt trips she just took from Dawson.
My only question: Did the writers on this show think that they were creating a likeable character? Were we supposed to be rooting for this incontravertable dick?
My only question: Did the writers on this show think that they were creating a likeable character? Were we supposed to be rooting for this incontravertable dick?
#30
Posted Mar 18, 2004 @ 5:32 PM
Hi, MichBev, I believe TPTB thought they were crafting a likable character, perhaps even an admirable character, based upon the life of Kevin Williamson. Just goes to show how delusional we can be!
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