3460 replies to this topic

[Perfect Xero]

It's not Faith ... I've checked.

[areacode212]

Where the hell was Spike and Drusilla?

They were probably causing havoc somewhere else. I guess since Wishverse Sunnydale was pretty much the Master's playground, Spike didn't feel like hanging around being one of his minions. Spike was all about running around the globe, looking for challenges & Slayers to fight. Preying on helpless Sunnydale residents at that point would've been too easy for him. But I suppose it's possible that they would've stopped by a year earlier to cure Drusilla.

[EONdc]

With no Dru and Spike in Sunnydale, there would be no need for Kendra and Buffy to save him. Even if they had been in Sunnydale, they wouldn't have necessarily needed Angel for the ritual. The reason they had to do that ritual was because Dru couldn't feed enough and get strong on her own with a Slayer in town. Without one, she'd probably be back on her little vampire feet in a week.

Either way, no dead Angel in the Wishverse. I think if I had to, this episode rates as my all time Buffy favorite, so I wouldn't necessarily want to see it changed. I think it's kind of fun to fill in the blanks on our own. I can't imagine any explanation of how Larry became a white hat would amuse me more than just the simple fact that he is.

I think there wasn't a throwaway comment about Spike and Dru because they weren't as important in the Buffyverse at that point in Season 3, in the great scheme of things, as they were in later seasons. It's entirely possible that the Sunnydale vampires never even heard of them, in fact. It was a year before ME decided to make Spike a regular, and it seems from everything I've read about this time in the show, it wasn't something they were thinking of in Season 3 at all.

[1formybaby]

I like that. Just like real life psychos.

[Swift Shy Guy]

I think the absence of Darla is a bigger head-scratcher than the absense of Spike and Dru.

I like to think that Angel killed her shortly before being captured by the Master, although I figured Angel would have been easier pickin's for her with no Buffy around.

[1formybaby]

There's no way IMO that Angel would have killed Darla unless he had to, not to save himself. He was still very tied to her when he killed her to save Buffy, and would have been more so if he had not known Buffy aka The Wish. I do think, though, that he would have let Darla kill him: "Put the blade in the wall Darla" (when she was going to kill him circa 1900, shown in Ats). I agree that her absence is a bit more of a head-scratcher though, and it would have been good to see Darla, rather than Willow - or at least, as well as Willow - torturing her souled Angelus.

[DaBigDave]

I think the absence of Darla is a bigger head-scratcher than the absense of Spike and Dru.

Maybe Spike showed up, Darla got annoyed and killed him, and then took Dru to Italy. The Master, incensed, decided to make Willow and Xander his new proteges. How's that for a fanwank?

[brave little toaster]

I think an even easier fanwank would be that vamp Willow and Darla would be obvious rivals, and vamp Willow was pretty tough (remember, Darla ran from Buffy a couple of times in the pilot), so I think Willow probably would have dusted her to be queen bee.

God I love that episode--the slow mo at the end as they all get dusted to a mournful tune on the soundtrack? I get goosebumps. And I'd have to love even a mediocre episode that spawned Doppelgangland.

[pokey camp]

I just rewatched The Wish and I noticed something strange: when vampWillow and vampXander enter the Bronze they pass a vamp who is biting a girl who looked a lot like Faith. Does anyone know if that really was her?

It's not Faith ... I've checked.

Yeah, that actually was Eliza. Not in character as Faith, but as a random extra. Apparently she just happened to be hanging out and wanted to get bitten.

Edited by pokey camp, Jan 8, 2004 @ 9:19 AM.

[valny]

That's interesting about that Eliza extra scene. Now I'll have to pop the dvd in and look for that part when I get home from work.

[LFChickenhead]

Oooh, me too. Cool. And now I can do this whole fanwank, where Faith, as a potential, would have been drawn to the Hellmouth, in advance of Buffy being killed but the PTB were done over because the vamps got Faith before she ever had a chance to be a Slayer. Poor Wish!Faith.

Edited by LFChickenhead, Jan 8, 2004 @ 10:07 AM.

[Perfect Xero]

Yeah, that actually was Eliza. Not in character as Faith, but as a random extra. Apparently she just happened to be hanging out and wanted to get bitten.

Are you sure? I did a freeze frame on the DVD and the girl just didn't look like Eliza to me. I mean, she wasn't in the episode, why would she be hanging around the set?

[Jack See]

No, Faith wasn't in The Wish. Buffy comments on her absence in the opening scene. I think you're thinking of Doppelgangland.

[Brahmsian]

To me, the biggest headscratcher in The Wish is the absence of non-vampire type demons and monsters. Where's the multiple-head thing that came out of the Hellmouth in both The Harvest and The Zeppo. Or the even worse things that Giles said would have followed it, given the chance?

Second on my list is the question of why Wishverse!Cordy didn't realize sooner that with no Buffy in Sunnydale there was no one to prevent the Master from rising. Cordy isn't really dumb even if her priorities are a bit off after all.

Fanwanks, anyone?

Edited by Brahmsian, Jan 8, 2004 @ 12:16 PM.

[pokey camp]

Are you sure? I did a freeze frame on the DVD and the girl just didn't look like Eliza to me. I mean, she wasn't in the episode, why would she be hanging around the set?

I can't find the interview now, but do remember reading that explanation a while back. I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it. On the other hand, the folks over at the Buffyguide seem convinced it's not her, but they can't find the interview stating so either. Shrug.

[Brahmsian]

Sorry, HexLover, but I can't buy that. She's spent too much time around the original Scoobies for that, not to mention how traumatic her encounters with the monster and the minions trying to resurrect the Master were.

Maybe if the memory loss had been part of Anyanka's spell I could buy it, but what reason do we have to believe it was? I'm darned if I can see any.

[EONdc]

I don't think it's that Cordy didn't consider the Master dangerous. She's no dummy. I think she just wasn't thinking. The wish wasn't made with the any malice - it was (to her) just a throwaway line. I would imagine that she was so happy to be the Sunnydale It girl again, she didn't consider immediately after that anything was different aside from Buffy being gone. I do think it jives with her personality to think "Pffft. Who cares? No Buffy - big deal." She wasn't exactly president of the Buffy Summers fan club. Once she realized the ramifications of her wish - a few hours later at most, since we see her sit through one class and then try to go home - she was very quick to realize it was a huge mistake.

Edited by EONdc, Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:14 PM.

[Swift Shy Guy]

I'm sure she would have eventually thought it through, but I think she was just so disoriented by the whole ordeal that the villain from 2 years ago probably didn't cross her mind (especially not after she saw Vamp Xander and Willow, I'm sure).

[nil]

To me, the biggest headscratcher in The Wish is the absence of non-vampire type demons and monsters. Where's the multiple-head thing that came out of the Hellmouth in both The Harvest and The Zeppo. Or the even worse things that Giles said would have followed it, given the chance?

Yeah, that's probably the biggest plot hole. I can buy they just forgot about it at the time, but one episode later it pops up again.

[Brahmsian]

EONDC, Cordy should have realized what a mistake she'd made when The Wishverse!Cordettes started talking about how vampires are attracted to bright colors, though, since in all likelihood none of the Real!Cordettes knew anything about vampires at that point in time. Or when the teacher in the one class she did attend spoke about the "monthly memorial", since there'd been no such thing in her pre-Wish universe. What, other than vampires and monsters having free run of Sunnydale, could she have thought required such a thing in her new universe?

Edited by Brahmsian, Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:32 PM.

[Swift Shy Guy]

Considering how topsy-turvy the world was in general, I don't see how she could have figured the Master was there just because Buffy wasn't there - who knows what might have happened after he arose.

Or, maybe she did figure it out early on, and she just didn't articulate it. Why would she have? It doesn't seem like it would have done her any good.