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Buffy Season Three


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#1

HexLover

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Posted Jan 6, 2004 @ 7:22 PM

I just rewatched The Wish and I noticed something strange: when vampWillow and vampXander enter the Bronze they pass a vamp who is biting a girl who looked a lot like Faith. Does anyone know if that really was her?

#2

Perfect Xero

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Posted Jan 6, 2004 @ 10:19 PM

It's not Faith ... I've checked.

#3

HexLover

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 5:58 PM

Damn, too bad. I wish that we had ben given a glimpse of what had hasppened to the other regulars, both past and present, in thr wishverse. Where the hell was Spike and Drusilla? I doubt that the Master would have objected to curing Dru, seeing as how she's his crazey, super strong, evil, great-grandchild. Why were Larry and Oz helping Giles? Why wasn't everyone helping? Why didn't they just light the Bronze on fire during the day? Does anyone besides me care?

#4

areacode212

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 6:20 PM

Where the hell was Spike and Drusilla?

They were probably causing havoc somewhere else. I guess since Wishverse Sunnydale was pretty much the Master's playground, Spike didn't feel like hanging around being one of his minions. Spike was all about running around the globe, looking for challenges & Slayers to fight. Preying on helpless Sunnydale residents at that point would've been too easy for him. But I suppose it's possible that they would've stopped by a year earlier to cure Drusilla.

#5

HexLover

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 6:27 PM

While that is entirely possible why the hell isn't Angel dead? The only reason he survived last time was because Buffy and Kendra pulled him out at thelast moment. I know that I'm obssesing but it's a problem that pisses me off, how hard would it have been to give them a throwaway comment about Dru and Spike screwing around somewhere?

#6

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 7:59 PM

With no Dru and Spike in Sunnydale, there would be no need for Kendra and Buffy to save him. Even if they had been in Sunnydale, they wouldn't have necessarily needed Angel for the ritual. The reason they had to do that ritual was because Dru couldn't feed enough and get strong on her own with a Slayer in town. Without one, she'd probably be back on her little vampire feet in a week.

Either way, no dead Angel in the Wishverse. I think if I had to, this episode rates as my all time Buffy favorite, so I wouldn't necessarily want to see it changed. I think it's kind of fun to fill in the blanks on our own. I can't imagine any explanation of how Larry became a white hat would amuse me more than just the simple fact that he is.

I think there wasn't a throwaway comment about Spike and Dru because they weren't as important in the Buffyverse at that point in Season 3, in the great scheme of things, as they were in later seasons. It's entirely possible that the Sunnydale vampires never even heard of them, in fact. It was a year before ME decided to make Spike a regular, and it seems from everything I've read about this time in the show, it wasn't something they were thinking of in Season 3 at all.

#7

HexLover

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 8:06 PM

So does D'Hoffyrn ever remind anyone else of the Mayor/ They both go from being really nice and polite one second then really evil the next.

#8

1formybaby

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 10:58 PM

I like that. Just like real life psychos.

#9

Swift Shy Guy

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Posted Jan 7, 2004 @ 11:49 PM

I think the absence of Darla is a bigger head-scratcher than the absense of Spike and Dru.

I like to think that Angel killed her shortly before being captured by the Master, although I figured Angel would have been easier pickin's for her with no Buffy around.

#10

1formybaby

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 12:59 AM

There's no way IMO that Angel would have killed Darla unless he had to, not to save himself. He was still very tied to her when he killed her to save Buffy, and would have been more so if he had not known Buffy aka The Wish. I do think, though, that he would have let Darla kill him: "Put the blade in the wall Darla" (when she was going to kill him circa 1900, shown in Ats). I agree that her absence is a bit more of a head-scratcher though, and it would have been good to see Darla, rather than Willow - or at least, as well as Willow - torturing her souled Angelus.

#11

DaBigDave

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 1:07 AM

I think the absence of Darla is a bigger head-scratcher than the absense of Spike and Dru.


Maybe Spike showed up, Darla got annoyed and killed him, and then took Dru to Italy. The Master, incensed, decided to make Willow and Xander his new proteges. How's that for a fanwank?

#12

brave little toaster

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 1:22 AM

I think an even easier fanwank would be that vamp Willow and Darla would be obvious rivals, and vamp Willow was pretty tough (remember, Darla ran from Buffy a couple of times in the pilot), so I think Willow probably would have dusted her to be queen bee.

God I love that episode--the slow mo at the end as they all get dusted to a mournful tune on the soundtrack? I get goosebumps. And I'd have to love even a mediocre episode that spawned Doppelgangland.

#13

HexLover

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 7:15 AM

I love the slow-mo fight scene too. It's the only time that the death of characters that I really liked without seriously pissing me off. Has Giles ever died, whether in the normal reality or an alternate one, because every other Scoobie has?

#14

pokey camp

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 9:13 AM

I just rewatched The Wish and I noticed something strange: when vampWillow and vampXander enter the Bronze they pass a vamp who is biting a girl who looked a lot like Faith. Does anyone know if that really was her?

It's not Faith ... I've checked.

Yeah, that actually was Eliza. Not in character as Faith, but as a random extra. Apparently she just happened to be hanging out and wanted to get bitten.

Edited by pokey camp, Jan 8, 2004 @ 9:19 AM.


#15

valny

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 9:47 AM

That's interesting about that Eliza extra scene. Now I'll have to pop the dvd in and look for that part when I get home from work.

#16

LFChickenhead

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 10:06 AM

Oooh, me too. Cool. And now I can do this whole fanwank, where Faith, as a potential, would have been drawn to the Hellmouth, in advance of Buffy being killed but the PTB were done over because the vamps got Faith before she ever had a chance to be a Slayer. Poor Wish!Faith.

Edited by LFChickenhead, Jan 8, 2004 @ 10:07 AM.


#17

Perfect Xero

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 11:35 AM

Yeah, that actually was Eliza. Not in character as Faith, but as a random extra. Apparently she just happened to be hanging out and wanted to get bitten.


Are you sure? I did a freeze frame on the DVD and the girl just didn't look like Eliza to me. I mean, she wasn't in the episode, why would she be hanging around the set?

#18

HexLover

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 11:37 AM

Are you sure? I did a freeze frame on the DVD and the girl just didn't look like Eliza to me. I mean, she wasn't in the episode, why would she be hanging around the set?


Faith was in the first few scenes, in the library then chatting with the Mayor.

#19

Jack See

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 11:40 AM

No, Faith wasn't in The Wish. Buffy comments on her absence in the opening scene. I think you're thinking of Doppelgangland.

#20

HexLover

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 11:42 AM

True, sorry. I tend to think of those to episodes as the same one because I always watch them together.

#21

Brahmsian

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 12:15 PM

To me, the biggest headscratcher in The Wish is the absence of non-vampire type demons and monsters. Where's the multiple-head thing that came out of the Hellmouth in both The Harvest and The Zeppo. Or the even worse things that Giles said would have followed it, given the chance?

Second on my list is the question of why Wishverse!Cordy didn't realize sooner that with no Buffy in Sunnydale there was no one to prevent the Master from rising. Cordy isn't really dumb even if her priorities are a bit off after all.

Fanwanks, anyone?

Edited by Brahmsian, Jan 8, 2004 @ 12:16 PM.


#22

pokey camp

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 12:36 PM

Are you sure? I did a freeze frame on the DVD and the girl just didn't look like Eliza to me. I mean, she wasn't in the episode, why would she be hanging around the set?

I can't find the interview now, but do remember reading that explanation a while back. I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it. On the other hand, the folks over at the Buffyguide seem convinced it's not her, but they can't find the interview stating so either. Shrug.

#23

HexLover

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 3:34 PM

Second on my list is the question of why Wishverse!Cordy didn't realize sooner that with no Buffy in Sunnydale there was no one to prevent the Master from rising. Cordy isn't really dumb even if her priorities are a bit off after all.


Seeing how Cordy never had to deal with the Master or his flunkies exept for a few instances I don't think that she considered the Master to be all that dangerous. Also it's been two years, maybe she forgot all about him, it was her first time activley participating with Scoobie stuff and she would probably remember the 3 headed demon or the vamp minions with more clarity.

#24

Brahmsian

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 4:47 PM

Sorry, HexLover, but I can't buy that. She's spent too much time around the original Scoobies for that, not to mention how traumatic her encounters with the monster and the minions trying to resurrect the Master were.

Maybe if the memory loss had been part of Anyanka's spell I could buy it, but what reason do we have to believe it was? I'm darned if I can see any.

#25

EONdc

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:13 PM

I don't think it's that Cordy didn't consider the Master dangerous. She's no dummy. I think she just wasn't thinking. The wish wasn't made with the any malice - it was (to her) just a throwaway line. I would imagine that she was so happy to be the Sunnydale It girl again, she didn't consider immediately after that anything was different aside from Buffy being gone. I do think it jives with her personality to think "Pffft. Who cares? No Buffy - big deal." She wasn't exactly president of the Buffy Summers fan club. Once she realized the ramifications of her wish - a few hours later at most, since we see her sit through one class and then try to go home - she was very quick to realize it was a huge mistake.

Edited by EONdc, Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:14 PM.


#26

Swift Shy Guy

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:23 PM

I'm sure she would have eventually thought it through, but I think she was just so disoriented by the whole ordeal that the villain from 2 years ago probably didn't cross her mind (especially not after she saw Vamp Xander and Willow, I'm sure).

#27

nil

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:27 PM

To me, the biggest headscratcher in The Wish is the absence of non-vampire type demons and monsters. Where's the multiple-head thing that came out of the Hellmouth in both The Harvest and The Zeppo. Or the even worse things that Giles said would have followed it, given the chance?


Yeah, that's probably the biggest plot hole. I can buy they just forgot about it at the time, but one episode later it pops up again.

#28

Brahmsian

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:29 PM

EONDC, Cordy should have realized what a mistake she'd made when The Wishverse!Cordettes started talking about how vampires are attracted to bright colors, though, since in all likelihood none of the Real!Cordettes knew anything about vampires at that point in time. Or when the teacher in the one class she did attend spoke about the "monthly memorial", since there'd been no such thing in her pre-Wish universe. What, other than vampires and monsters having free run of Sunnydale, could she have thought required such a thing in her new universe?

Edited by Brahmsian, Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:32 PM.


#29

Swift Shy Guy

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:33 PM

Considering how topsy-turvy the world was in general, I don't see how she could have figured the Master was there just because Buffy wasn't there - who knows what might have happened after he arose.

Or, maybe she did figure it out early on, and she just didn't articulate it. Why would she have? It doesn't seem like it would have done her any good.

#30

HexLover

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Posted Jan 8, 2004 @ 6:25 PM

Well she could have run up ans down the halls yelling," We're all going to die!!!!!!! "