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Babylon 5


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#3751

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 10:04 PM

Okay, that spoiler bar is taunting me. *glares at it*


Winter in a globe? I swear the longer I'm here the more people sound like Kosh. XD
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#3752

ganesh

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 11:31 PM

It's deliberate.
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#3753

ProfCrash

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 6:20 PM

Don't look at this one. Really. Don't.

Not messing with you
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#3754

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 6:38 PM

Wasn't planning on it. I find you guys' Kosh speak to be far too amusing to wreck it. Plus it's always better to be unspoiled, knowing where the story is going doesn't hurt the story but it makes the journey less interesting.
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#3755

ganesh

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 6:45 PM

Yes.
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#3756

morrigan2575

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 1:28 PM

Thanks for the hint b/c I had no idea who it could be...in fact I didn't even remember Morganna Le Fay being mentioned in the episode...then again I didn't really like the episode and usually skip it on rewatch.

Edited by morrigan2575, Apr 9, 2012 @ 1:29 PM.

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#3757

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

Ship Of Tears:
-Lots happened this episode, I had to watch it several times to get it all.
-G'Kar's patience was finally used up waiting for Sheridan to live up to his side of the bargain and he's forced the issue. I can understand that Sheridan wouldn't want to have to tell G'Kar certain things as it was putting Delenn's life in danger but how long did he really think he could put it off? G'Kar actually took things really well, I don;t think I've ever seen Delenn that anxious about talking to someone before but was it the guilty feelings or fear? Poor G'Kar, he already learned of the Centauri and their alliance with the Shadows when he mind raped Londo, and he admits to knowing most of it already, but learning that she stood by and did nothing? Said nothing? Not even a warning? That had to hurt, especially after he went to her during the war and asked for her help and she said the Minbari were staying out of it because they were tired of war. Turns out theywere preparing for a different war and were using the Narns to buy themselves time. It really does say a lot about G'Kar's growth that he doesn't lose his tempter, show any anger, or even lay a hand on her at all. He thinks it over, lets it sink in, accepts the horrible necessety of it and simply states that he won't forgive her right now. That's, well, about as good as that meeting could possibly go. I admit I was a tad nervous when they were in the elevator on the war to the new war facilities as G'Kar was strangely quiet but it turned out alright. I admitt, though, to being a little disappointed with the reveal of their new facilities, with the build up I was expecting something more impressive. It's a table with a bunch of tactical displays on the walls, it's like C&C but with far more space than necessary. hell, it would have been nice to reveal one or two of the ambassadors from the lesser worlds, show that it's not just the Command Staff ding everything.
-Bester is back and he can fly a Starfury, I wonder who he hitched a ride with to get there? or was it just some unimportant ship going the right way? I liked how Sheridan made him sweat a bit at the begining, I don't think Bester's realized what their independence means for how much he can get away with. You really shouldn't antagonise a group of people who already hate you, blame you personally for the death of a close friend, have no further ties to the government that protects you and has already shown a very strong desire to see you come to harm (and in Ivanova's case attempted to murder him). I noticed Ivanova reacted much less strongely meeting Bester this time, so her extreme behaviour the last time really must have been out of grief for Talia. It seems Ivanova's position as a latent telepath is still a secret just between her and the captain, which is probably good as Bester has shown a tendency to scan Garibaldi's surface thoughts at the very least. Bester really shouldn't have gone on about her mother, that's a line he should have known not to cross and I can't tell if he was trying to make her more sympathetic to the Corps or trying to exert a little power by taunting her with it. Either way I'm glad she smacked him for it. Got him to cut the small talk and get to business. The Shadows seem to have a big interest in human telepaths, so big Bester is willing to defy his government and help out the B5 crew. I enjoyed the scene on the White Star, Sheridan kicking him out of his chair and telling him not to drool on the controls and Lennier refusing to take orders from Bester.
-My reaction was the same as their's when the Shadow ship just took off without attacking, At first I thought they were just taking a cheap way out since they couldn't think of a new trick to get them to destroy it as they've already established the White Star can't stake a large Shadow ship in one on one combat. I'm glad I was wrong and there turned out to be a reason. It seems the Shadows have a vulnerablity to telepaths, possibly foreshadowed, heh, by Talia's earlier reaction to them. Strange though, the vorlons have been sort of set up as the opposite side to the Shadows but if the Vorlons are as powerful telepaths as they seem and the Shadows are vulnerable to telepaths then why haven't the Vorlons been helping out? Is the telepathic weakness shared by everyone with organic tecvhnology or just the Shadows?
-So the Shadows are kidnapping telepaths and modfying them to act as the processing units of their ships, hoping that using telepaths instead of normal people will make them more resistant to telepathic jamming. Or do telepaths just work better in the ships? The preparation seems to make the people capable of merging with any technology as Bester's girlfriend merged with Med lab and almost the whole station. Her reactions seemed programmed, acting on artificial instinct rather than fear and desperation. Was she telekinetic? I'm not sure how else she got into that wire cacoon or how she was shooting electricity like that, as that's not how electricity works. Good thing they unfroze her though as now Bester is firmly on the B5 side of the war, which I assume will prove most helpful. Question though, she spoke of the Machine talking in her mind. Is that the implants the Shadows put in her or is she bound to a specific ship? If so how will destroying that ship affect her? Would it free her or kll her?
-Franklin's addiction is out in the open and he's gone, possibly for good. Can't say I'm sorry to see him go. He was a Douche to begin with and the stims just made things worse. If Garibaldi hadn't forced the issue he probably would have kept going until he killed someone, maybe even after that. Seriously, they've seperated from Earth, the war with the Shadows is really heating up and they expect me to care because Franklin can't control himself? I guess with Marcus around to replace him they can afford to lose one idiot now that they've got a spare.
-turns out there really was helpful information in the Book Of G'Quan, it's provided them with the Shadows weakness and may save them in the coming battle. G'Kar's barely been in the War Council a day and he's proven himself more valuable than everyone save Delenn!
-Garibaldi was really on this episode. He pushes through Franklin's addiction problems, figures out Carolyn's anti-Psi Corps programming and puts together the pieces along with the stories from the Book of G'Quan and figures out the Shadows' weakness.
-The Shadows are now attacking openly, in Brakiri space. I'm guessing whatever they're after they're close enough to their goals to start pushing for it. Looking forward to seeing hat's next, I'm sure Kosh will be playing a much bigger role now that full blown war will be breaking out. We'll no doubt be seeing more of a Vorlon presance around the station and in battle.

Edited by TimeMonkey, Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:12 PM.

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#3758

morrigan2575

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 7:42 AM

So the Shadows are kidnapping telepaths and modfying them to act as the processing units of their ships, hoping that using telepaths instead of normal people will make them more resistant to telepathic jamming. Or do telepaths just work better in the ships?

I always thought it was the first one, that telepaths might be better at fighting off other telepaths.

I loved that G'Kar/Delenn scene, it was so emotional. I felt for both of them, and I really believed that Delenn felt sorrow and guilt over what her actions/secrets caused. I also loved G'Kar's sad comment about not being able to forgive her just yet. It reminded me of the elevator scene with Vir.
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#3759

bnevs18

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 9:17 AM

Shadow vessels use living beings as their CPU...living beings cant function properly if a telepath is messing with their minds...sticking a powerful telepath in protects them from that. Delenn has also said of vorlon ships "in a curious way, it is alive", and we are left to assume that in battle the vorlons would be sitting inside of it...could the Vorlon ships also be susceptible to telepaths?
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#3760

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 12:04 PM

Wow, uh, pkay, guys, I seemed to have goofed up.

Remember a while ago I mentioned I got my dad rewatching the series? Well it seems that he's moved much quicker than me and we're both now on the same disk. While I was watching Ship of Tears I stopped after the scene in medlab with Carolyn because I needed to do some chores around the house (laundry, dishes, etc.) while I did that my dad was watching one of the other episodes and since I wasn't paying attention, trying to avoid spoilers after all, I lost track of where he was and ended up watching a scene from a later episode. Since my dad decided to be nice and put it back where I left off my mind grafted the one scene onto the episode I was watching. So, my bad, Franklin doesn't leave in this episode which means he doesn't take off just as the war is breaking out and I was a tad hard on him. My apologies. And I am now spoiled for where his story is going later on this disk. Fortunately that's all I was spoiled for, I hope that wasn't the big thing for the upcoming episodes or I'll be seriously bummed.
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#3761

John Potts

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 2:20 PM

I'd also assumed it was a case of telepaths being able to block other telepaths.
Spoiler


I loved the G'Kar/Delenn exchange:

Delenn: Can you forgive us?*
G'Kar: One day, perhaps. But not today.

...which proves how far G'Kar has come since S1.

As for A Late Arrival from Avalon - I assume that Mordred is Morden.
Spoiler
But I liked the episode overall "They made a very satisfy thump when they hit the ground!"

* or possibly me, I forget
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#3762

bnevs18

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 9:29 PM

Late Delivery from Avalon: The one episode where it would have been much better with Sinclair on it. If it were a S1 episode (when we still cared a ton about the EM war) and with Sinclair there to help 'Arthur', it would have been top five S1 material...instead its bottom 5 S3.
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#3763

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 5:04 PM

I'll be watching the next episode eithert tonight or tommorow, looking forward to it. I've had a busy and unpleasant week so I'm really hoping for a good episode. Is the next one good?


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#3764

Scade

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 5:13 PM

I believe Kosh said it best: "Yes."
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#3765

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 9:54 PM

Interludes and Examinations:

-Londo's love interest from way bacvk in season one has decided to return. It's amazing how happy I was about that, as the episode she was last scene in wasn't that good but Londo's joy was infectious and I think I genuinely wanted to see Londo be happy for once. A little happiness can do wonders and might have lead him away from the Shadows and towards redemption. Vir looked so happy for Londo, and his embarassment with some of the things he had to arrange for Adira was quite amusing, and he even got to tell off Morden again! Vir is basically flipping the bird at not only Morden, but the Shadows that travel with him. It seems Morden was going to use Adira against londo but as ti turns out Lord Refa got there first and killed her before she arrived on the station. Or maybe Morden figured out what was going to happen and didn't interfere to teach Londo what happens when his offers are rejected? Poor Londo, he was devastated by her death, the actor really sold his grief, and at the end when he allies with Morden I was sad rather than angry at him. Once he comes to his senses he'll realize what he's done and take steps to fix things, I'm sure of it, but for him to even go there at all shows how broken he was by her death. Not bad for a one episode love interest that had barely been mentioned since the third episode.

-Sheridan is trying to unite the various races into a single fighting force against the Shadows. He's having considerable difficulty though as those under attack by the Shadows are busy trying to protect themselves and the ones not under attack are laying low and trying not to draw the attention of the Shadows. Though it seems the intervention of the Vorlons was enough to get things going.

-Sheridan is growing increasingly frustrated as they seem to not be working towards any discernable goals. What is it the Shadows are after?

-That look Delenn had on her face when Sheridan was ranting about what the Shadows were after suggested she known more than she's letting on. We know the Minbari fought the Shadows a thousand years ago, did they discover secrets about them that would help out now? Or is she hiding something that will make Sheridan think less of her, as she was with G'Kar.
-Sheridan's scene trying to convince Kosh to get the Vorlons to help out was great. Sheridan really isn't afraid of the First Ones, is he? he gets right in Kosh's face, pushes as hard as he can without crossing the line and stands his groudn until Kosh has no choice but to back down and give in. Kosh must have known what was going to happen right from the moment Sheridan asked for his help. His voice sounded almost desperate, scared as he shot down Sheridan's proposal and it looked more like he was trying to scare Sheridan off, rather than hurt him, like he was trying to prove Sheridan wasn't ready. But in the end he did the right thing and accepted the price that came with it and died with dignity.

-Speaking of Kosh's death, holy crap I was not expecting that! I was caught completely off guard by it and didn't accept it until I saw the wrecked encounter suit (seeing that made me strangely sad). I've come to expect JMS to stab me in the heart when I least expect it so I go into each episode on guard now but after adira's death I figured that was the episode's big emotional punch and wasn't expecting them to have a second, bigger death immediately afterward. When Morden broke into Kosh's quarters and Kosh turned to face him and the Shadows appeared I was all 'Aw yeah, Kosh is gonna kick some Shadow ass!' but then it seemed like he was losing the fight and I thought, maybe it's a diversion and Lyta's gonna come in as reinforcements! They recently established that the Shadows are vulnerable to telepaths and it would explain why the Vorlons allowed her to be Kosh's aide, she'd be a bodyguard and secret weapon against them! But then she didn't show up and then I thought maybe it was all a set up, he knew the Shadops would eb coming for him so he used his little scuffle with sheridan in the hall to hide himself inside Sheridan like he does with Lyta and left his suit on remote pilot as a distraction! But then his suit was destroyed, and light flooded and escaped and everythign was gone. I really did not expect Kosh to be killed. If Kosh can die nobody is safe! Morden is onboard with three Shadows that leave no evidence behind of their pressence. And if Kosh couldn't stop them, despite being a First One and being a powerful psychic himself then they could kill anyone! Losing Na'Toth and Talia made me mad but Kosh's death just makes me sad. I said I wanted to see someobody ripped apart by the Shadows and I guess I should have been more specific.

-Kosh says that the Vorlons won't do anything because they're not done preparing and there's still few of them. What does he mean by that? The Vorlons have known the Shadows far longer than anyone else has, have fought them repeatedly. They knew the Shadows would eb back, how can they not be ready? And how can there be few of them? Were they waiting for the Shadows to return to start reproducing? Did he mean ships? Or were they just excuses?

-Will the Vorlons stay involved now that they've done this or will it be a one time thing and just go back to being useless?
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#3766

ganesh

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 10:09 PM

What is it the Shadows are after?

Exactly.

There's some nice backstory in the novels re: Kosh's death. In the Technomage ones iirc. There were a few passages from Kosh's POV that kind of flesh out this particular episode.
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#3767

TheNarrator

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 6:59 PM

It seems Morden was going to use Adira against londo but as ti turns out Lord Refa got there first and killed her before she arrived on the station.

I had the impression that Morden killed her and pinned it on Refa to piss Londo off so that he'd get back in the game and start working with the Shadows again. Am I misremembering?


Were [the Vorlons] waiting for the Shadows to return to start reproducing?

Do the Vorlons reproduce? (Anymore, I mean. Obviously at some point they must have. But I sort of figured that they'd become practically immortal.)
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#3768

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 7:49 PM

I don't know but Kosh's line was that there were still few of them. So that must mean they were going to increase their numbers before getting involved. the question is what exactly he was reffering to.I know the Minbari needed time to prepare, building the White Star and I assume others like it will be completed eventually, but the Vorlons had advanced warning and solid knowledge of the Shadows, they should already have been prepared.
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#3769

bbell

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

All will be explained. Soon.
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#3770

ganesh

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 11:40 PM

I had the impression that Morden killed her and pinned it on Refa to piss Londo off so that he'd get back in the game and start working with the Shadows again.

That's basically the whole story line there. They show Morden at the end paying someone off to confirm it. Londo just flat out got played. But, this was a great example of someone from S1 where you figured was a one-off character [Adira] and came back to move the plot along majorly.
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#3771

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 6:23 AM

So I guess I misunderstood what happened.
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#3772

bnevs18

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 8:51 AM

The vorlons need to import some Barry White

ETA: "noone is safe"...Kosh dying=yawn
Spoiler

Edited by bnevs18, Apr 19, 2012 @ 9:21 AM.

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#3773

morrigan2575

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:18 PM

bnevs18

Spoiler


Huh?

Edited by morrigan2575, Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:18 PM.

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#3774

bnevs18

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 9:27 PM

"We will all come together in a better place"
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#3775

ganesh

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 10:59 PM

We are not even remotely at that point yet.
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#3776

morrigan2575

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 3:17 PM

Spoiler
? LOL, kind of forgot all about it. Lucky me :-)

Edited by morrigan2575, Apr 25, 2012 @ 3:17 PM.

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#3777

TimeMonkey

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Posted Apr 30, 2012 @ 8:14 PM

Hey guys, sorry it's taking me so long to get to the next episodes but I kinda lost the Dvds. Kind of annoying since I think I had a two parter up next.
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#3778

FoolishWanderer

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Posted Apr 30, 2012 @ 9:17 PM

That's fine. I've been trying to watch S4, and... it just isn't working for me. I want to watch DS9, but I told myself, not until I finish B5. But I don't want to finish B5...
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#3779

Bruinsfan

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 11:04 AM

Are you past episode 10 FoolishWanderer? As I recall the first half of Season 4 was like a roller coaster ride for me.
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#3780

FoolishWanderer

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Posted May 1, 2012 @ 5:05 PM

Yeah, I've seen up to ep 10. I suppose my biggest issue is Garibaldi. I know it's deliberate and it's going somewhere, but I don't like it anyway.
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