1583 replies to this topic

[VGMan]

Yea, I still watch, but the burning desire is gone. Ive been downlaoding the eps and wathcing it in small bits whenever I have some spare time. Its good television, but I just don't base my time around it. I still do that for some shows, but 24 has.... become very repitious. I need a change in venue. Im so tired of seeing LA as the center of the show, for no reason.

[Sebastian90012]

I hope he's not well.

The only thing that even partially redeemed the "Kiefer's dead...uh, no he's not" arc was the fact that he had repercussions (short-lived as they were).

[Bruin4Ever]

Wow, I just figured that Benji was bitter that no new episode had aired for a couple of weeks. I guess I just read that wrong.

[Captain Pike]

It may be too early to judge, but I don't get the impression that Tony is healed OR ready to work

That's a fair point, but a shot in the throat shouldn't even leave him in that good a shape. If they wanted to run the "Tony's a tough guy, playing through pain so he can save the world" riff, they should have given him a gut shot instead of a throat shot. The gut shot could be fatal with long term neglect, but could be survived with immediate medical attention, but he'd be in unimaginable pain all the way.

Yeah, maybe he will still die, and it's sick and wrong to hope for that...

I know what you mean, and it's not so much that I want to see that either, I like Tony, maybe even better than Jack, and I remember thinking how cool it was that he finally got out of the office and got to see some action, and I was really ticked off that on his first big mission out of the office, bang.. he's dead. And I haven't yet decided whether I'm more annoyed by him surviving a shot to the throat than I would have been if they'd offed him there.

I haven't missed an episode, but a VCR mishap prevented me from archiving episode six for later viewing, and I realized after the fact that there were no encore presentations on either Fox or FX. In either of the first two seasons I would have been bummed out if that happened but this season? eh.. so what?

[Cattycorner]

I'm ready for tomorrow night. I think we are going to see the next few episodes redeem some of the 'meh'. (And did anyone else notice this is page 24? Huh? Didya? Didya?)

[ArubaForLife]

I usually TiVo 24 and watch it at a more convenient time. This season, I find it supremely easy to simply pause it in the middle of an episode if something comes up. Previous seasons, I never could have done that. I think the show is really going down the tubes. I just don't find it suspenseful anymore, and I can't put my finger on why that is.

Of course, I'll continue to watch it every week, hoping for improvement...

[CarpeDiem]

Later... as for me I'm committed. I have no more bitterness this season than I had in either of the other two seasons. The secondary storylines when not directly involving the main one have always been mundane...imho.

And for the upteenth time Kiefer getting out of life and death situations makes the show interesting - killing him would be boring! How he has to deal with the consequences of his actions and secrets makes it interesting - he lives and others die - actually quite a lot for anyone to have to live with don't you think.

24 is like love - it may start out with lust that is all consuming and over time settles into a deeper emotional relationship that still makes you smile and feel tingly inside even if occassionally you get angry that the toilet seat is left up or there is dirty clothes all over the floor.

Lust is fleeting and rarely everlasting... why should 24 be an exception.

Bitter....nah, just in love with this show despite the baggage it sometimes carries with it.

Long live 24 and Kiefer/Jack!

[brighid]

Word to everything you said CarpeDiem!

We need a non-bitter thread.

[MacMadame]

24 is like love - it may start out with lust that is all consuming and over time settles into a deeper emotional relationship that still makes you smile and feel tingly inside even if occassionally you get angry that the toilet seat is left up or there is dirty clothes all over the floor.

Except sometimes when lust dies down, you realize that you don't really like the person you are with.

For me it's more that 24 and I are moving from being lovers to being friends. I'm starting to accept the show for what it is rather than railing at what it could be, which lessons my bitterness, but I'm also realizing that what it is isn't something I'm going to be deeply in love with.

So 24 I'm breaking up with you but I want us to still be friends, 'kay?

[moppet]

I'm just starting to move into not caring one way or another. Last night I was puttering around for 15 minutes before remembering that there was something on I usually watch.

Which is somewhat sad, but hey, we all grow. I have no vested interest in convincing people of my "side," it's just that the things I liked about the show no longer seem fresh and exciting to me anymore. I feel like I've seen this all before. Maybe it's because the only character I care about now is Jack, and Jack obviously can't be on the screen every minute. But, I'm not as good as some of you at analysis. :-) I just know something has changed -- maybe it's me, maybe it's the show.

Edited by moppet, Jan 7, 2004 @ 5:50 PM.

[MacMadame]

I just know something has changed -- maybe it's me, maybe it's the show.

Sounds like you just gave 24 the "It's not me, it's you" speech. Hee.

[terebi]

Dear Kiefer,

First off, I want to say that I still love you. But even you, with your busy schedule, must be aware of the fact that we are growing apart. First you started getting almost-killed entirely too many times for my liking, and then you brought me Rolaide, only to yank her away in the most unsatisfying way possible. So who can blame me for seeking fulfillment in the arms of Carnivale? I am not sayign that it's perfect, but it reminds me of the great old days when we were first getting together... the wet towel... the friction with the President... do you remember the times?

I have been trying to make it work, but I am starting to doubt my abilities. But it's not too late for us to make it together again. But, I hate to say this - the ball's in your court. I will be there for you, at your back - but even I can't do it forever.

Love,
Terebi

[Miss Tricia]

Terebi , the above is some funny stuff! Also, ITA with the break-up analogy. I am not angry of even bitter, just disinterested. But at this point in the season, maybe it is possible for TPTB to straighten out this scholckfest (in my opinion at least)... One can only hope. Is 24 that boyfriend who deserves another chance?

[The Krell]

And for the upteenth time Kiefer getting out of life and death situations makes the show interesting - killing him would be boring!  How he has to deal with the consequences of his actions and secrets makes it interesting - he lives and others die - actually quite a lot for anyone to have to live with don't you think.

You don't get it. I'm not saying they should kill Jack. I'm saying that to hinge any sort of suspense on whether or not he's going to die is pointless and empty. Pointing a gun at someone's head is only suspenseful if you think the gun could go off. Better to hinge suspense on Jack trying to save someone else than to go through this EVERY DAMN EPISODE. It's lazy writing and completely without suspense. You notice I keep using the word suspense? As I posted earlier, suspense is all this show is about. The characters are too one dimensional for it to be about anything else. That's what the whole 24 format is built to create: suspense. When you try to get the audience to worry about the possible death of an unkillable character in EVERY DAMN EPISODE, you're insulting their intelligence.

Anyway, I took 24 off my Tivo Season Pass list today. It was very cathartic.

[CarpeDiem]

You don't get it. I'm not saying they should kill Jack. I'm saying that to hinge any sort of suspense on whether or not he's going to die is pointless and empty. Pointing a gun at someone's head is only suspenseful if you think the gun could go off. Better to hinge suspense on Jack trying to save someone else than to go through this EVERY DAMN EPISODE. It's lazy writing and completely without suspense. You notice I keep using the word suspense? As I posted earlier, suspense is all this show is about.

I can't find your original post so I can't tell if I misrepresented something you said or not. What I was posting to in that particular statement is to the posts that Jack should seemingly never be put in a life and death situation again... because, meh... we know he isn't going to die so stop trying to make us believe he will so who cares. Sorry if it sounded personally directed to you. it wasn't meant that way.

As for the hinging suspense on Jack's plight I see that more in the dialogue of others (Tony, Gael, Palmer) rather than in the acting out of said threat - unfortunately I think that particular writing is directed at first time and casual viewers - to core viewers it does insult 'our' intelligence or at least 'our' memories but whatcha gonna do - the writers are not just writing for the die-hard fan but for newbies too. If it were for core viewers only, I think there would be far less 'recapping' exposition going on each week.

I can agree that the jail house Russian Roulette game was someone's idea of 'Cool let's do this' writing. And the writers could have done something different with how Palmer had to issue another death warrant on Jack - but that is more a POTUS storyline problem for me. And Tony getting shot IN THE NECK - LOL... If they needed him out of the picture while Jack was escaping with Ramon I think they could have come up with something more believable.

But other than the two I mentioned above the rest of the threats to Jacks life seem reasonable. Ramon would of course want to see him dead and rightfully doesn't trust him, Hector has a reason to keep him alive for the moment and then he too would want to kill him for his initial betrayal. Nina definately wants him dead to protect herself from his ultimate revenge on her.

So then its down to how he can convince them NOT to kill him and to trust him despite their better judgement that is suspenseful and interesting, imo course. And maybe in that suspense someone else will die because he lives. Chase may die, Claudia may die, her father or brother may die.... all are currently in danger because Jack lives. Not to mention Nina and the Salazar brothers.

This year it seems to be more of a mind game about who will out smart who. Who is the better liar, it's like a game of poker. The suspense, for me at least, is in seeing how well they play each other.

ETA: 14 hours to go and still not bitter or disinterested yet in the main story arc... but if the rest of the subplots were to disappear tomorrow I certainly wouldn't complain. <BEG> Maybe by the final episode I'll see some of you in the non-bitterness thread or maybe I'll be joining you here. LOL! Cheers!

Edited by CarpeDiem, Jan 8, 2004 @ 4:44 AM.

[Bruin4Ever]

14 hours to go and still not bitter or disinterested yet in the main story arc... but if the rest of the subplots were to disappear tomorrow I certainly wouldn't complain.

I must agree with that sentiment. Ill Presidente has me snoozing, Chase/Spawn seem to be add ons this year, and Tony/Michelle have begun to grate ever so more than slightly.

[moose]

I am totally where MacMadame is -- I'm not "breaking up" with 24 (at least not until after this season, the jury is still out on future seasons) but the intense love affair is over. There was a brief rekindling with the Jack-a-Mole plot, but I'm not getting the follow-through I'd hoped for.

When you try to get the audience to worry about the possible death of an unkillable character in EVERY DAMN EPISODE, you're insulting their intelligence.

Agreed, with a caveat. I don't mind Kiefer being in peril, but I do mind it being the episode cliffhanger, because it's not a cliffhanger if you know it's going to be resolved in your hero's favor. Actually, these last few episodes have been a little better in that respect - they didn't try to leave us hanging with the Salazars threating Kiefer.

I actually considered not watching 24 on Tuesday night. Not never watching it, but putting it off for a bit because there were some other things I felt like doing. I mostly watched it because it's watercooler talk with a couple of my co-workers and I didn't want get too far behind here. And how sad is that? Not so long ago, I couldn't wait to chase away mooseboy and settle down with my favorite show every Tuesday night.

[The Krell]

And maybe in that suspense someone else will die because he lives. Chase may die, Claudia may die, her father or brother may die.... all are currently in danger because Jack lives.  Not to mention Nina and the Salazar brothers.

Well we're at episode ten and the warden is the only person with dialog who has died. As I posted earlier, there being no bullet in the gun when Jack pulled the trigger on Chase was very telling. This show has lost its nerve. What's more, the writers ran out of story three episodes ago and are just treading water. 24 runs out of story halfway through every season, but usually they've given us a lot of great episodes up to that point. This season I count zero great episodes.

[CarpeDiem]

The Krell , you're fun to play with btw and I hope you see this back and forth as all good fun. Here's some further thoughts and a dash of bitterness to stay on topic.

What's more, the writers ran out of story three episodes ago and are just treading water.

I view the story as evolving rather than treading water, we're at chapter 10 of a 24 chapter book with still no idea where this story is really going - which depending on your perspective can either be exciting or not.

Season 1 and 2 threats were immediate and known and therefore much easier to follow and get involved with. Season 3's threat is much more unclear. It's partially the sale virus - not that it'll be released 'today' but that it will be sold and may not be locatable in the future and partly Jack's life since if he can't produce the virus 'today' he's dead.

Since Jack's life lies in the balance and he can't die then there is no suspense for some.... but for me, as I've said before, it's the suspense of how he survives and what he has to do to win. It's a very high stakes poker game with an awful lot of bluffing going on. And so far I'm hooked.

Well we're at episode ten and the warden is the only person with dialog who has died. As I posted earlier, there being no bullet in the gun when Jack pulled the trigger on Chase was very telling. This show has lost its nerve.

Jack killing Chase would have been shocking I agree but it probably would have turned alot more people off the show than onto it. I think there are a few things that a majority of fans won't tolerate in a hero and that probably would have crossed the line. So they cheated by showing that Jack would have done it but in the end he didn't have to.

I guess I'm lucky in that it was Jack's story that drew me into the show in the first place and what keeps me around. I've never been particularly engrossed by Palmers family or cabinet issues - they are mildly interesting but if that was all the show was about I would have stopped watching a long time ago. (though the last episodes of Season 1 between Sherry and David were kick ass)

As for the other secondary stories they have hardly ever held my interest and have generally kept me from seeing the Jack story arc for 20 minutes or more each hour for that last 2 1/2 years and for that I should be very bitter. <g>

ETA: Since there is now a non-bitter thread I better head over there and leave this one alone.

Edited by CarpeDiem, Jan 9, 2004 @ 2:44 AM.

[dzhim]

I really think that if the show has been treading water this season, it was doing it for the first few episodes, which were kind of a lead-in for what's actually going on. It really feels like the writers wanted to tell this story about Jack being undercover, but they needed a way to introduce us to the characters, so voila - the quarter-day feint. It also serves the purpose of setting a slower, more deliberate pace to the season. I'll take the feint -- gladly -- if it means the writers won't "blow their load" halfway through and give us another silly amnesia plot or palace coup.

[Benji]

Well we're at episode ten and the warden is the only person with dialog who has died.

The warden died? The hell? It was a prison guard who killed himself. And Luis Annicon had dialogue, as well as Kyle's captors.

As I posted earlier, there being no bullet in the gun when Jack pulled the trigger on Chase was very telling. This show has lost its nerve.

That's not telling at all. Jack pulled the gun in season 1 and Nina didn't die. No matter what moment of whatever season, Jack was not going to kill his coworker.

[24-4ever]

I think it's kind of sad that the quality of a show is being questioned partly because the body count is lower. I can't see that one has anything to do with the other unless you just have a craving for the violence.

[Gustave]

Don't make generalizations about the motivations of posters who are critical of the show...especially in the bitterness thread.

[dzhim]

Killing off characters now and then is just one way for TPTB to keep us on our toes. A lot of people here have said that they feel jerked-around since late last season because Kiefer (when flatlining), Lady Mac (when stabbed by Hewett), Kiefer+Lady Mac (when Jack went off the road), POTUS (Fruit Roll-Up of Death), Soul Patch (say it with me here... In The Neck!), Kiefer+Hartmano (playing Russian roulette), Kiefer+Hartmano (in the helicopter), and Chase (when Jack nearly shot him) all stood with their toes on the edge of the Death Pool diving board.

Not all of those bother me individually, but together they do dilute some of the tension that we're expected to feel each time a character is thrust into one of those situations. I think the only way to keep the show from becoming a super-cheap yawn-fest every time a character's life is threatened, is to follow through with it sometimes. Not always, but enough that viewers don't always know how it's going to turn out each time.

[Scorpio]

For me the lack of death doesn't reduce the tension. We're overdue for a shock and so the longer they wait and show us main characters almost dying but being saved at the last minute, the more I think we have a major death coming.

oops - I forgot to add some bitterness!
The subplots are lame. I can't defend them at the moment.

Edited by Scorpio, Jan 9, 2004 @ 11:24 PM.

[Benji]

Okay, here's one thing I'm borderline bitter about. Why get Tony shot in the neck of all places? Why not the arm like Rick who went right on with his day afterwards or in the gut? That would be far more believable IMO and would still put into motion the "He's unable to work for a few hours/now he's rushed back to CTU to unveil that Jack's undercover" plot. I realize that if Tony is shot, he's not going to stay down all day. And I realize such a recovery may not be totally out of the question IRL, but for me the writers could have made it much easier on themselves by not having him get shot in what seems to be (to medical know nothing me) such a high risk area.

[The Krell]

I think it's kind of sad that the quality of a show is being questioned partly because the body count is lower.  I can't see that one has anything to do with the other unless you just have a craving for the violence.

Another post from a point-misser. No one is craving violence. At least I'm not. I'm craving suspense. This show used to have tension. The stories were better and there was a sense that these people we marginally care about (these characters are not very fleshed out) could die. To get that point across, some blood has to be spilled every once in a while. It doesn't even have to be graphic (in fact, I'd prefer if it wasn't). When Jack's wife was killed, we didn't see it happen. But it was still incredibly powerful. This show hasn't had that kind of impact since the bomb was dropped in season 2.

Let me step this out one more time for the people who still don't get it. 24 is a show that is built to create suspense. The format of the show is inherently suspenseful. It doesn't take time to flesh out characters (the way Alias does) but that can be a plus because the viewer is being propelled along an amazing rollercoaster ride. The danger is that the story has to work all the time because the characters aren't developed enough to carry you through the slow spots. When the story breaks down and starts treading water, it's all the more glaring because the only thing the show has going for it is suddenly missing. It's like playing a great action video game but then the characters stop doing what they're supposed to and just start walking into each other and bouncing off walls. Folks, the 24 characters are bouncing off the walls.

[JoBu]

Not bitter myself, though I can appreciate the bitter viewpoint. I came across the following (excerpted) gem in my hard-copy of Entertainment Weekly in the "What to Watch" section--i.e., the section usually written by Dalton Ross, but this week written by Tim Carvell, a welcome change of pace from usual sub Jessica Shaw. It is good fuel for the fire for the bitterness perspective.

The thing I like best about 24 is that it seems as if it's being made up as it goes along, like a story told by a 5-year old.  'And then, um, and then they killed Jack!  And then he got better.'

[alamogal]

Exactly! I find that I keep turning in from week to week to see what will happen next, but I don't really have much rooting interest in any ultimate conclusion; there just isn't any overarcing rooting interest. (The exception: Claudia's ultimate fate.) That may help the show, since people can come and go without losing much, but it's not the transcendant (beyond "ordinary" TV) experience it was.

[brighid]

Even though I don't agree with this summary:

The thing I like best about 24 is that it seems as if it's being made up as it goes along, like a story told by a 5-year old.  'And then, um, and then they killed Jack!  And then he got better.'

I find it hilarious - ha!