28 replies to this topic

[SnarkinUSA]

Interesting, Joe Dwarf. I'll have to check out the CI thread.

I've been suspecting for a while that maybe Debra Byrd is doing more harm than good with some of these kids. The reason I say this is, looking at the original auditions of some of this year's final 12 - Matt Rogers, Camile, JPL, John Stevens, shoot...even Jesus H. Roman - I thought their auditions were really good. Then when it got to be showtime, they suuuucked. Diana also seemed to go downhill for the first several weeks. I don't know, I'm not a vocal coach and I don't want to blame Byrd for something that's not her fault, but it just seems strange to me that so many people had great initial auditions and then turned in a bunch of "WTF?!?!" performances after they got into the semi-finals/finals.

Anyway, it's interesting to hear that the same thing appears to be happening with Canadian Idol now, and that the common denominator seems to be Ms. Byrd. Hmmmm...

[katiedid]

Is Byrd responsible for the horrid, repetitive mainstream song choices and the melisima (sp?)

I think the horrid song choices have more to do with the fact that people on AI have the exact same horrid taste as does the population in general. But during AI this season, they showed in one of the shows (sorry, which exact one I do not recall) her INSTRUCTING George to not only put the icky melisma in, but on how to do it. So yeah, I personally choose to blame her for the proliferation of it amongst all the contestants. Not that some of them wouldn't choose to do it on their own, but it really pissed me off she would make George do it when he sounds better with rich sustained notes. And it always sounds like the same melisma pattern at the end of almost everyone's songs, so it occured to me that Byrd is the architect of that musical house of cards.

[ishcabibble]

I think that Byrd has been trying to teach them actual singing technique and as with changing anything that you're very proficient at, you get worse at first but eventually as you get used to it you get better and better. I guess that people take different amounts of time to adapt to it.

I totally agree with this, however, the format of the show does not lend itself to letting the contestants "eventually get used to it". There will always be contestants who have already had vocal training and therefore adjust more quickly to her suggestions, or those who tell her to just shove it. However, you will then have the contestants who are trying to follow her instructions, get nervous and uncomfortable, and then get voted off. I have been thinking for a while that this is what happened to both Camille and JPL.

I also agree with you gyc about some contestants have one song which is kind of their "speciality". I think that this kind of happened with Kimberly Locke in season 2 with "Somewhere Over the Rainbow". IIRC, the judges at various points in the top 30/32 auditions have told the contestants that they wish they would have sung a different song since they'd heard it about 50 times by then.

[Mmm... Free Goo]

Well, Bettis was a moron for choosing to sing an uptempo Boyz II Men song with only a piano accompaniament. I thought that Byrd couldn't slap the contestants for horrid song choices, just try to help them sing those songs as best as possible, although with the revelation that Nigel forced "Holding Out for a Hero" on Fantasia, I don't know anymore.

Maybe she suggests melisma because she knows the contestants have less than a minute and 30 seconds to impress the judges and viewing public and, like it or not, that shit tends to work. Do held glory notes qualify as melisma? Because I think those have been much more prevalent, at least during the last two seasons.

[ishcabibble]

Melisma sounds really bad when it's forced.

Or when the singer just goes for all sorts of bad notes during it (see Day, EJay).

[Shoebox]

I can't imagine Deborah Byrd encouraging it if it doesn't come somewhat naturally to a singer, though. Melisma sounds really bad when it's forced.

Or when the performer is using it in place of conveying real, unaffected emotion through their singing, which seems to happen a lot on AI (and now CI2).

Edited by Shoebox, Jun 20, 2004 @ 6:33 PM.

[amd21]

I've got to give this woman credit. Although, I've heard that she has requested a seat at future AI auditions to better help "The Chosen 3" weed out the bad from the good and or vice versa. She's also from Cleveland, which automatically makes me like her.

A side note: How much money is she being paid for each season?
Another side note: I also recall her being a back-up singer on the AI1 tour, since I was at the Cleveland concert and they made a big hoopla for her homecoming.

[ToneDefJeff]

Melisma sounds really bad when it's forced.


Or when the singer just goes for all sorts of bad notes during it (see Day, EJay).

Now every time I hear "I'll Be" I add those in!

I still love that photo linked here a while back of a tortured Byrd in rehearsal with Carmen.

[ishcabibble]

There is an interview with Byrd on Foxes on Idol where she says that she will not be helping out the judges in the initial, city auditions. So, does anyone know where this rumor got started?

[Mmm... Free Goo]

It is rumored that Byrd was so horrified at many of the AI3 "singers" that she wanted to go on the road with the judges to make sure they chose good vocalists, which is quite pathetic that they can't do that on their own. I don't remember the source.

[Genie]

No. Melisma is a time-honored technique in various forms of singing. It's basically singing a group of many notes on one syllable. It's used in European classical singing (i.e., coloratura performances in opera) sometimes. You hear it a lot more in Middle Eastern and Mediterranean singing, and notably in certain prayers and chants. Heard it every morning when I visited Morocco a few years ago during the Islamic high holy days. The imam, or Muslim cleric, used tons of melisma as he chanted prayers from the Koran, calling the faithful to prayer.

Melisma has long been a part of African-American singing, but it seems to me that many more of today's pop singers avail themselves to this technique than singers of the past used to. I sometimes wonder if it's not a crutch for some singers who may lack the ability to do controlled, sustained notes. When it's done well, I really like it. I can't imagine Deborah Byrd encouraging it if it doesn't come somewhat naturally to a singer, though. Melisma sounds really bad when it's forced.

Great explanation. My mom was talking about how a lot of people hate when a singer trills even the slightest word, but she has a different theory other than, "you're over doing it". She thinks a lot of white people aren't really used to hearing that kind of gospelized singing and it's a turn-off to them. I kinda agree because I know I like a little drama to my singing. I think with the likes of Christina Aguilera and to an extent Whitney Houston over doing it, people are turned off by it.

Ruben seemed very natural when he would use melisma. Because he had soul. You rarely find soul at the AI auditions. It sounds so manufactured when I hear people hit dead-on notes and add no character to it. I think that singing needs to stay at Broadway. But give me some histrionics to my pop star.

Also, this might sound like an odd question, but is Debra Byrd that lady who sings during the commercial breaks on Jay Leno

[Mmm... Free Goo]

I guess the singers in the finals turned out fairly decent, but I thought that Byrd was pissed about the people chosen by the judges for the semi-finals. With people like the Roman brothers and Lisa McBoobies, I wouldn't blame her.

[Genie]

Deb should participate in the selection of the Top 32. That way AI can be a bit more even on the Competition/Contest scale.

[majiggie]

I saw Barry Manilow in concert Saturday night (shut up, it sooo rocked!). Anyway, Debra Byrd was there and she sang some songs on her own, and also as backup for him. She's awesome! It was cool to be able to hear her voice.

Edited by majiggie, Oct 25, 2004 @ 7:19 PM.