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#4231

jtenny123

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 2:34 AM

That flop was awful. It was a joke. Not only does he flop WAY too much, but he's so damn bad at it.


Lebron is hardly the only one who flops in the NBA. Flopping has been around for years with Divac, Ginobili, Fisher, etc. Lebron doesn't flop nearly as much as those guys.
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#4232

xaxat

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 8:53 AM

He may not flop as much, but I do think he is as big a drama queen as any player. Last night after a hard foul he started limping around, rubbing his shoulder and squinting like someone had poked his eye out. He was trying his best to look like an eighty year old man. Then he found out he didn't get the continuation and all of his ailments were magically healed!
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#4233

Doom

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 10:17 AM

Off topic.


Edited by Doom, Nov 23, 2013 @ 12:18 PM.

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#4234

jtenny123

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 10:49 AM

He may not flop as much, but I do think he is as big a drama queen as any player.


I disagree. Almost all players these days oversell fouls to get calls. Lebron is not doing anything different or violating any rules. I don't think Tim Duncan's "who me?" look when he gets called for fouls or Kobe barking at officials is any better than Lebron. How is he a bigger drama queen that Amare who punched glass when he was pissed?

Edited by jtenny123, May 4, 2012 @ 10:53 AM.

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#4235

KerleyQ

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 11:14 AM

How is he a bigger drama queen that Amare who punched glass when he was pissed?


I think the difference, imo, is we're talking about LeBron's on court drama queen antics, meant to try to gain more favor with the refs, and this is one off court incident of Amare's that had nothing to do with begging for a call/trip to the FT line. Although, if we include off court antics, nothing holds a candle to LeBron's entire last season (and offseason) in Cleveland, culminating in "The Decision," so I'd still put him ahead of Amare in the drama queen sweeps.
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#4236

jtenny123

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:03 PM

I think all players try to gain favor with the refs, Lebron is not the only one. There are countless NBA players who complain about refs and put it out there that they are not getting the calls they want. Also, although Lebron's The Decision is bad, other players have done far worse things in their personal lives-Jason Kidd beating his wife, Kobe Bryant's rape charge, etc. Lebron wanting to go to another team is worse than those behaviors?

Edited by jtenny123, May 4, 2012 @ 3:06 PM.

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#4237

MV007

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 3:54 PM

I think the problem with Lebron flopping is that it is beneath him. If you want to say he's not the worst offender then maybe thats fair, but I think he's the worst offender of any "superstar". It's not just trying to take a charge or flailing when you aggressively take it to the basket. It's the situations where he's chasing a loose ball or rebound with an opposing player and Lebron gets their first and then takes advantage of the ref being behind the play and flopping as if the other player ran him over when in fact he barely grazed him. I don't remember other super stars doing this. By the way Chris Paul is annoying with his bull shit flopping when it comes to screens. He stands out for me too.

Edited by MV007, May 4, 2012 @ 3:55 PM.

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#4238

KerleyQ

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 4:09 PM

Also, although Lebron's The Decision is bad, other players have done far worse things in their personal lives-Jason Kidd beating his wife, Kobe Bryant's rape charge, etc. Lebron wanting to go to another team is worse than those behaviors?


No, but weren't talking about bad behavior - we were talking about the drama queen, attention getting antics. Big difference.

I think the problem with Lebron flopping is that it is beneath him.


This. My most common reaction when I see his antics is usually "you're an All Star and perennial MVP candidate, have some dignity for crying out loud!" As someone who really loves the game, it's kind of sickening to watch it played like that.

It's not just trying to take a charge or flailing when you aggressively take it to the basket. It's the situations where he's chasing a loose ball or rebound with an opposing player and Lebron gets their first and then takes advantage of the ref being behind the play and flopping as if the other player ran him over when in fact he barely grazed him.


This pretty much exactly states my issue with his flops. It's just so calculated and unnecessary, and not really related to what actually happened (and, at times, like when he bonks himself in the head and reacts to it, nothing actually happaned). I think it's ridiculous when guys completely overact, too, but he's essentially manufacturing shit out there. And that "flagrant" on Tyson in game 1? The ridiculous flail to the ground, followed by rolling around on the ground with his hands clamped over the back of his head/neck was shameful. He reminds me of a toddler who falls down, is fine at first, then realizes Mommy is looking at him, so he starts crying. Not to mention, and this part is on the refs, that fould Tyson committed on him was identical to the foul LeBron laid on John Lucas in the last Bulls/Heat game, yet LeBron certainly wasn't getting whistled for a flagrant when it happened.
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#4239

Doom

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 4:45 PM

Off topic.


Edited by Doom, Nov 23, 2013 @ 12:18 PM.

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#4240

KerleyQ

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 5:57 PM

I think Lebron decided if he wasn't going to get the calls, he was going to have to really sell it at times.


What I'm seeing from him, though, isn't just "selling" when he is fouled (although I do think that, when he does that, his "selling' is so far above and beyond). He's flat out manufactured fouls when there was no contact.

Also, I don't think that over 660 FT attempts in a season (LeBron's total last season, his first in Miami) is exactly getting the short end of the stick. For comparison's sake, Kobe played in 3 more games last season and went to the line 583 times. LeBron was getting calls just fine last season, imo.

Edited by KerleyQ, May 4, 2012 @ 5:58 PM.

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#4241

Doom

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 6:53 PM

Off topic.


Edited by Doom, Nov 23, 2013 @ 12:19 PM.

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#4242

jtenny123

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 10:36 AM

What I'm seeing from him, though, isn't just "selling" when he is fouled (although I do think that, when he does that, his "selling' is so far above and beyond). He's flat out manufactured fouls when there was no contact.


I disagree. I see him getting contact, but overselling it. I don't see a problem with it. Other players do it too. Chris Paul, Derrick Rose was always flying around before he got injured. It's part of the game. I don't see how it makes Lebron a cheater.

Also, as far as not getting whistled for it, I don't see how that is Lebron's fault. I completely disagree that he is manufacturing calls.

Edited by jtenny123, May 5, 2012 @ 10:40 AM.

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#4243

PoeticJustice32

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 3:16 PM

I completely agree that LeBron manufactures some (emphasis on some) of his fouls. Game 1 against the Knicks when he literally flew out of bounds when JR Smith was barely touching him comes to mind. LeBron could get knocked down with a feather if he thought it would get him a call. And no I don't see other superstars doing that. They will no doubt exaggerate the contact (flailing arms; jerk the neck back; etc), but not many would totally create contact when there wasn't any. What's also bothersome to me is the frequency with which LeBron does this. He's too good a player to be resorting to that stuff. You never hear Kobe's name associated with flopping, nor Lebron's own superstar teammate DWade, or the young studs like KD and D-Rose. Those guys earn their way to the free throw line.

I've sort of been in my own depressive funk because of the Knicks' almost certain annihilation. I really thought we would have won at least one game this series. Anyway, despite all that, I feel even worse for Bulls fans. Hopes and expectations were justifiably high and I just couldn't imagine the roller coaster those fans have been on. Now it seems like they'll be in a dog fight with Philly, maybe without Noah now.

Edited by PoeticJustice32, May 5, 2012 @ 3:24 PM.

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#4244

Doom

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 4:35 PM

Now it seems like they'll be in a dog fight with Philly, maybe without Noah now.

I was pleasantly surprised to not (personally) hear any announcers or commentators calling him a warrior for coming back in on that ankle. It was impressive, in that he came in and actually hit a shot. But otherwise, he probably just did more damage to it and slowed the healing process. It would have been worth it had the Bulls won it though. That was one of the worst ankle sprains I have seen an NBA player have. It's never good when your ankle touches the floor while you're upright. Since it's the NBA though, they may be able to just tape it up after he ices it, give him some painkillers, and let him go out there.

I know this may be confirmation bias but I don't remember this many postseason injuries on playoff teams. I'm trying to think of 5 guys who got hurt in the opening round of last year's playoffs.
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#4245

big chicken

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 5:15 PM

As a Bulls fans I've gone through the grieving process and accept the Bulls are most likely not getting to the ECF, but I was beyond pissed to hear people at Philly cheering when Noah went down and then booing him when he got up. I wish the 76ers had the fanbase they deserve--I think they're a classy team with a classy coach. I realize it's not all Philly fans but there were enough of them making noise.
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#4246

jtenny123

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 5:34 PM

Those guys earn their way to the free throw line.


I think Lebron also earns his way to the free throw line. He has done a better job this year of attacking the basket and not just relying on fade away jumpers. I don't think he is doing anything so terrible.
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#4247

PoeticJustice32

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 6:50 PM

I wish the 76ers had the fanbase they deserve--I think they're a classy team with a classy coach. I realize it's not all Philly fans but there were enough of them making noise.

The Philly fans for several of the city's sports teams are notoriously nasty. I always get a good laugh whenever the NFL shows a clip of the Eagles fans booing Santa Claus. I didn't really watch the game but its pretty disgusting that they did that. There come a point where sportsmanship and just a little common decency and humanity takes precedence over rooting for your team's best interest.

I think Lebron also earns his way to the free throw line. He has done a better job this year of attacking the basket and not just relying on fade away jumpers. I don't think he is doing anything so terrible.


Yes I agree...but that's not what I was really talking about. When LeBron flops and manufactures calls that's not "earning" it. That's just playing on the refs ineptitude.

Edited by PoeticJustice32, May 5, 2012 @ 6:53 PM.

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#4248

Paxton

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 8:11 PM

LeBron, like most NBA superstars, earns some of his calls and some of them are reputation gifts. I accepted this is the way the league works a long time ago.

Good exciting finishes to the first couple of games today. I'm glad the Spurs game tonight is on TNT and will not feature the useless Jon Barry as an announcer, he having already added nothing to the Clips/Grizzlies broadcast.
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#4249

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 9:25 PM

James Harden flopped pretty well tonight when he got elbowed. There was the elbow, and then a half second later, the karate movie-like delay until Harden flopped it out. Webber is getting better. I still don't like him on my broadcasts, but he was tolerable. I think the Thunder closing out the Mavs will make the Heat come out guns blazing tomorrow. Of course, I was wrong and thought the Heat would lay an egg last game (well, they did, the Knicks just laid an Ostrich egg to outdo them), and I also was sure Dallas would win a couple of games or even the series against the thunder. And I couldn't have been wronger. All those analysts and commentators kept saying Dallas was going absolutely nowhere and I did not believe them.
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#4250

Paxton

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 9:31 PM

I actually like Chris Webber. He has a distinctive and appealing voice and he's a smart guy--that's 75% of the game. If he can stay on topic and talk about the game and not ramble about pointless nonsense that's all I ask for in an announcer. As for the Mavs game, I'm surprised they couldn't make a series out of it, but they're really not the same team as last year and we all know how well that Lamar Odom addition worked out. I'm not a Mavs fan but I hope Odom is feeling ashamed right about now.
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#4251

KerleyQ

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 10:44 PM

I was pleasantly surprised to not (personally) hear any announcers or commentators calling him a warrior for coming back in on that ankle. It was impressive, in that he came in and actually hit a shot. But otherwise, he probably just did more damage to it and slowed the healing process.


I was just reading that Thibs said the training staff said there would be no harm in him going back out to give it a try. I find it hard to believe, but I also don't think anyone involved would have sent him out if they really didn't believe that he couldn't do further significant damage by doing so.

As a Bulls fans I've gone through the grieving process and accept the Bulls are most likely not getting to the ECF, but I was beyond pissed to hear people at Philly cheering when Noah went down and then booing him when he got up. I wish the 76ers had the fanbase they deserve--I think they're a classy team with a classy coach. I realize it's not all Philly fans but there were enough of them making noise.


I agree. I was beyond appalled and disgusted at the behavior of the Philly fans. There are a lot of athletes I don't particularly like, but I can't think of a single one I'd cheer to see injured or boo to see them get up from that injury. (OK, I might have to think on Michael Vick for a while, but other than that...) And I agree, especially about Collins. I love him. He was a class act when Rose got hurt, he's been a class act the whole time. I love in game 2 (I think it was) when Hawes was pissed about a foul call and started going at the ref, Collins immediately jumped up and redirected him to the bench, he was having none of that. I appreciate him having a line and not letting his guys cross it. I think he was probably as disgusted as any of us that their fans would react to an injured opponent like that.
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#4252

Paxton

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 11:42 PM

I was flipping back and forth between the Fox Sports Southwest feed and TNT during the Spurs/Jazz game and boy am I glad I gave TNT a chance, because otherwise I would have missed this gem from Fratello: young players lose confidence when they miss their shots on the offensive end. First of all: imagine that! And secondly, isn't the "on the offensive end" part of the sentence completely redundant?
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#4253

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 2:25 AM

LeBron, like most NBA superstars, earns some of his calls and some of them are reputation gifts. I accepted this is the way the league works a long time ago.

Those types of calls piss me off, but LeBron is not even close to being the first player to ever get them. Jordan could push off, travel, and pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted out there without an official so much as batting an eye. On the other hand, anyone looking cross-eyed at him would be called for a foul. I remember watching a film clip once that showed Jordan taking 4 freaking steps before a dunk. The commentary wanted me to be impressed. All I could think was, "If he's the best ever, shouldn't he be able to play by the rules and still be impressive?"
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#4254

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 5:17 PM

At first I didn't realize it was Spike Lee in a silly hat, so my first thought when you could see him from behind on the full court camera shot was "Why does some Amish dude have court side seats at the Garden?"
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#4255

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 5:40 PM

What a great game. And I didn't even have to hear Van Gundy whine about flopping. Whoever on the Heat staff that thinks Battier can guard Melo is wrong. Shane can't check him. Why you put him on Melo at the end of the game with it on the line, is beyond me. I loved Wade's block on Melo - just like James only surprise surprise, Wade didn't get called for a foul.

Also, Baron Davis, thank you for a great career. Just a great player and I hate to see him go out that way. To me, it couldn't be much clearer that the schedule this season has been responsible for significant injuries. You don't see primetime players going down and out of the game like this in the first round of the playoffs..
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#4256

PoeticJustice32

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 5:54 PM

Where the hell was this Knick team the last 3 games? THIS was what I expected from them from the beginning. Just a hard gritty win by those guys. This was what we needed to do....play hard defense and keep the game under 95-90. Of course they had to make us sweat at the end though. Melo missing 2 out of 3 free throws. Jesus.

I'm so happy that 11 year losing streak is over and we didn't get swept again. As pitiful as it sounds, this one game meant a whole lot. You could see the relief on those guys' faces after the game. Got to give Amare a special kudos. He played really well despite his injury.

Whoever on the Heat staff that thinks Battier can guard Melo is wrong. Shane can't check him. Why you put him on Melo at the end of the game with it on the line, is beyond me.


I didn't quite understand that either. You'd think after Melo passed 30 points (I think he ended with 41), someone would have suggested a switch....like LeBron maybe? Oh well...I'm certainly not going to cry over Miami's stupid defensive assignments. If they thought LeBron was better served guarding Steve Novak or whoever then by all means.

Also, Baron Davis, thank you for a great career. Just a great player and I hate to see him go out that way.

Ditto. He tried his best to come back, but his body is just not going let him go anymore. Its sad he had to go out like that though. That injury was pretty ugly. Not as bad as that break a couple years ago by that Clippers player...Livingston I think his name was. That was the most gruesome injury I'd ever seen from a basketball player.

Edited by PoeticJustice32, May 6, 2012 @ 6:02 PM.

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#4257

Doom

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:29 PM

Can someone explain to me why the announcers/sager/tnt/ernie/kenny/charles/shaq/tedturner/spikelee/javalemcgee'smom/theblindchineseactivist were so amazed at a fan running, or in this case staggering onto the court? They usually make it a point to minimize it and don't show the person. But they just couldn't get enough of that lady. Some weird person stumbled onto the floor and was escorted off. Move the heck on, we don't care that much.
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#4258

miniglik

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 11:30 AM

I think Shaq is really bad on TNT. I thought he would be fun, but I think Barkley has a similar role but does it so much better.

I'm so happy that 11 year losing streak is over and we didn't get swept again. As pitiful as it sounds, this one game meant a whole lot. You could see the relief on those guys' faces after the game. Got to give Amare a special kudos. He played really well despite his injury.


I would have been cheering my head off too. Sure, it's mostly just a moral victory, but sometimes you'll take anything.

So, the part of me that loves watching sports movies -- that couldn't stop talking about Manning-to-Tyree for a month, has rewatched the end of the 2007 Fiesta Bowl a dozen times, enjoys every improbable Tim Tebow win, and drove to a sports bar just to catch the end of UNC Asheville v Syracuse earlier this year (just in case!) -- would just love if the Knicks somehow got to a game six (and won it!) with Jeremy Lin returning in the Garden. Can you imagine? The sports media would flip the hell out and it would be awesome. It wouldn't even matter, IMO, if the Knicks lost the series ultimately.

(Incidently, I know Lin is possible for Game 5. But Game 5 isn't where the fun drama would be. It would be Game 6.)
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#4259

PoeticJustice32

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 11:51 AM

Can someone explain to me why the announcers/sager/tnt/ernie/kenny/charles/shaq/tedturner/spikelee/javalemcgee' smom/theblindchineseactivist were so amazed at a fan running, or in this case staggering onto the court? They usually make it a point to minimize it and don't show the person. But they just couldn't get enough of that lady. Some weird person stumbled onto the floor and was escorted off. Move the heck on, we don't care that much.

I think Sager noted that the woman has a history with the Nuggets team. She was known to stalk some of the players over the years and had actually been banned from the stadium but somehow she got in last night. She may have seemed harmless, but if she's got some kind of mental deficiency who knows what damage she could have done.

Speaking of the Nuggets/Lakers...interesting commentary by Steve Kerr about Gallinari's flop. He said Gallinari "over did it" with the leg flail and the refs probably took exception to that and decided not to call the foul on Gasol's screen when they probably would have if he hadn't been all extra. Meh. I think that play is a product on who did the flailing, more so that the flailing itself. As Kerr said, those Euros are pretty known for flopping and Gallinari is no superstar. I bet if LeBron had done it he would have gotten that call.

would just love if the Knicks somehow got to a game six (and won it!) with Jeremy Lin returning in the Garden. Can you imagine? The sports media would flip the hell out and it would be awesome. It wouldn't even matter, IMO, if the Knicks lost the series ultimately.

(Incidently, I know Lin is possible for Game 5. But Game 5 isn't where the fun drama would be. It would be Game 6.)

Lol...I have actually imagined it. In my mind we go the distance to game 7 though. That would be soo epic. But I guess Game 6 would be more "timely" since that would be a home game. MSG would erupt if Lin suited up.

Edited by PoeticJustice32, May 7, 2012 @ 12:21 PM.

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#4260

miniglik

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 12:08 PM

I was flipping back and forth between the Fox Sports Southwest feed and TNT


Paxton, I'm so jealous. My husband and I miss Sean Elliot's homerism so much when we can't watch it. The man refers to the team as "We" so much we imagine he's sitting courtside in his jersey, just in case they need him.

I think Sager noted that the woman has a history with the Nuggets team. She was known to stalk some of the players over the years and had actually been banned from the stadium but somehow she got in last night. She may have seemed harmless, but if she's got some kind of mental deficiency who knows what damage she could have done.


I think Doom wonders why they showed it so much, when usually fan actions -- even bad fan actions -- are usually glossed over by the newscast. I would add "unless it's a famous person." I think the reason they showed her so much is that she was a reasonably attractive woman. There is a possibility there for lascivious gossip that you wouldn't get (is she someone's baby mama, etc?) with an overweight 45 year old man wearing his team's jersey. Well, unless he was running at Ron Artest/MWP
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