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Xena: Early Feminist! er Warrior Princess!


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#2551

AliasBatro

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 12:47 AM

Had Steven L Sears's concept for concluding X:WP been used, he would also have Gabrielle left alive accompanied by Xena's ghost...but enthroned as a wise Amazon Queen, respected by all, with Xena's spirit standing approvingly behind her, having acknowleged that Gabrielle's way was best in the long run. This was in keeping with SLS's ideas that made Gabrielle a legitimate partner for Xena, not a sidekick left to the mercy of the Xenastaff's whims.
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#2552

HouseofJudith

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 6:39 PM

Midnight Frost wrote:

Yet in spite of knowing all of that, I'm still shocked at just how depressed I am. I was ok right up until the very last shot, of Gabrielle standing by herself on the ship. It was the echo of their earlier conversation about going to Egypt and then that final visual reminder of Gabby being alone that did me in. I could handle it if Gabby decided to go do something else with her life, like devote herself to writing full time. I also probably could have gotten over it if they'd left it more ambiguous about what precisely Gabby was going to do. Hell, it would have been less gut-wrenching if they'd just faded to black with "Xena" still in the frame.

But when we're told that Gabby is going to make the journey she and Xena had been discussing before, only alone instead, that's just an emotional sucker punch. If I lost someone I loved, I can't imagine that I would want to, say, take a vacation we'd been planning all by myself. It would just be too painful. Damn this episode!


I assume you just watched the broadcast version, and not the extended/director's cut?

If so, I HIGHLY recommend getting the director's cut. It will still "hurt", (IMO) but much LESS!

(Discusses the change but doesn't show it. http://www.youtube.c...tailpage#t=542s )

As for Gabby going off on her own... I like the theory that the two main themes of X:WP were #1 Atonement/Redemption for Xena's sins and #2 The Maturation of Gabrielle.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=UToNmn0Hqww

You GO girl!

Edited by HouseofJudith, May 14, 2012 @ 6:43 PM.

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#2553

natyxg

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 2:01 AM

I think the problem with A Friend in Need was that it was as if the producers were satisfying some self indulgent whim that had nothing to do with ending Xena properly and everything to do with paying homage (ripping off) a favorite movie of theirs.

The music, the cinematography, a lot of the acting and costumes were all fantastic. But the story a) had nothing to do with Xena. They could've exchanged Xena with some random guy and they would only need to change the names, it was completely stand alone and generic b)was totally forced and made no sense on many levels.

I've never minded that Xena died, it could've been a strong finale, one that pulled on your heartstrings, unlike Hercule's, for example, which was mega lame, both the episode as a whole and the last scene. But how and why she died were completely forced and stupid and made little sense.
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#2554

HouseofJudith

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 3:07 PM

I hear you, and I recall all the finales that pissed me off or series that never "got" to end at all, so I feel your pain.

Lucky for me, I grew to like this finale, and just await their next karmic cycle. :-)
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#2555

Fungi Wisdom

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Posted May 27, 2012 @ 6:58 PM

Watched 'Return of Callisto' today including the scene where Callisto kills Gabrielle's husband, Perdicus. Xena and Callisto were fighting. Callisto had her back to Perdicus. She breaks away from the fight, and approaches Perdicus for the kill. By Xena standards, the Warrior Princess was well positioned to rescue Perdicus. Mysteriously, Xena sorta freezes up and Callisto kills him. Are we to believe that Xena really wasn't well positioned enough to prevent his death or are we to believe that she unconsciously wasn't invested in rescuing Perdicus?

Edited by Fungi Wisdom, May 27, 2012 @ 6:59 PM.

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#2556

HouseofJudith

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 7:28 AM

Nah, I didn't see it that way at all.

Callisto looked like she was running away from Xena, not approaching Perdicus for the kill.

The poor shmuck was just an afterthought, a kill because Callisto was pissed at being denied Gabrielle's blood.

Xena was doing what she was supposed to be doing, standing between Gabrielle and certain death. Callisto had already told her that she planned to kill Xena's soul before she killed Xena outright. Perdicus didn't hold a thousandth of power over Xena's soul that Gabrielle held, so wasn't in immediate danger and if anything... Callisto leaving him alive would leave Xena a distraction/rival.

In fact that scene was an interesting mirror of the village battle scene earlier in the show. Perdicus had just killed a soldier and he became nearly catatonic. Gabrielle was to his left, getting bested by a huge soldier. Xena looked at Perdicus, then Gabrielle, then Perdicus before she executed a Xena flip and landed on the otherside of Perdicus, between Gabrielle and her enemy.

EVIL Xena could have let Perdicus die at Callisto's hands, but not reformed Xena... even if reformed Xena is developing a soft spot for Bards from Potadiea.
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#2557

sienna gold

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Posted Jul 23, 2012 @ 10:48 PM

My friend and I are doing a Xena Re-watch. Thank the goodness for netflix because I had moved and left all my Xena dvds at home and I usually do a Xena-thon every year. As much as I love Xena, I always feel seasons one and two are a chore, because all the realllllly good stuff happens in Season 3. (But you NEED the first two seasons to appreciate season 3 :)
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#2558

HouseofJudith

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Posted Jul 24, 2012 @ 8:11 AM

Sienna Gold writes:

My friend and I are doing a Xena Re-watch. Thank the goodness for netflix because I had moved and left all my Xena dvds at home and I usually do a Xena-thon every year. As much as I love Xena, I always feel seasons one and two are a chore, because all the realllllly good stuff happens in Season 3.

(But you NEED the first two seasons to appreciate season 3 :)


Truer words were never spoken!

I actually really like season 1&2, especially the way they build the friendship between these two. Just think, in season 1 you have, "Dream worker", "Hooves and Harlots", "Altared States", "The Greater Good", "Callisto", and "Is their a Doctor in the House".

In season 2, you have one of my top 10 shows... "The Price", not to mention the tear jerker "Orphan of War". I cry whenever I see Xena walk away from Solon in that final scene, never telling him who she is.

But as you say, one cannot appreciate season 3 without seeing what these two went through the first 2 years they traveled together.

From the reconciliation scene in "The Price"

Xena: “Kaltaka turned out to be the key. When you went out there, they thought it was a truce to retrieve the wounded. I let my fear and hatred blind me to everything.”

Gabrielle: “Sometimes the past can do that. Xena, if I had been through what you’ve been through--”

Xena:
“No. No. You understand hatred, but you have never given into it. You don’t know how much I love-- that....”
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#2559

sienna gold

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Posted Jul 24, 2012 @ 6:36 PM

Judith, don't get me wrong, I have my favourite episodes in season 1-2 but it's just... had seasons 1-2 had the cohesion that seasons 3-5(Ish) had, it would be a LOT more awesome :) just a little preference of mine. I find it kind of funny how a lot of 90s television don't hit their strides until the 2-3rd season, while a lot of teevee now adays have AWESOME first seasons and then quickly peter out. (Maybe we're less patient)?

You listed most of my favourite episodes right there. I love the Price because I think (if you didn't see the Xena Triology on Hercules), the first glimpse of evil Xena. The "KILL THEM ALL!" was awesome and brilliant.
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#2560

HouseofJudith

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Posted Jul 25, 2012 @ 8:13 AM

I love "The Price", because for the first time we actually SEE Xena be scared of something.

Also, we see Gabrielle really stand up to her, defying Xena several times in her efforts to save Gabrielle and the Athenian soldiers and quite frankly we see Xena pissed off at Gabby's innocence. As you said, we get to see Evil Xena... yet still an evil tempered with the last 2 years of trying to be "good.

Gabrielle: “This is insane! You are letting these men die! You axed that man in the back!”

Xena: “He was inside our battlements. He saw our defenses! I couldn’t risk it.”

Gabrielle: “I can’t believe this, Xena. You’re scaring me.”

Xena: “This is war! What did you expect-- glamor?! There are no good choices-- only lesser degrees of evil.”

Gosh, I really liked this show and LOVED that ep!
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#2561

sienna gold

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Posted Jul 25, 2012 @ 7:19 PM

And I love that regardless of what she learned in the Price, several other episodes featuring the Hoard - Xena's first basic instinct is to be scared, and kill them, instead of thinking to help/reasonn with them.

Care to do a re-watch with me, Judith?
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#2562

HouseofJudith

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Posted Jul 26, 2012 @ 8:21 AM

Rewatch? Oh lord, I just finished doing that last year... but if I must, I must.

;-)

Where do you want to start, since 1 & 2 aren't favs of yours?

Edited by HouseofJudith, Jul 26, 2012 @ 8:21 AM.

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#2563

sienna gold

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Posted Jul 26, 2012 @ 11:13 PM

Gah, the internet ate my post.

Actually, what I want to do is go and watch the 3 Xena Episodes in Hercules. (we had bypassed that and I think that's needed :D), and then we can watch from "The Titans" (I don't mind season 1-2 truly). the Olympics start tomorrow so we can do it sort of during or after :)
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#2564

HouseofJudith

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Posted Jul 27, 2012 @ 5:44 PM

Good point re: Olympics... I'll try to do the Herc trilogy this weekend, but can't promise depending on what sports are up first.
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#2565

Fungi Wisdom

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Posted Jul 28, 2012 @ 7:58 PM

I loves me some Xena but not every episode is a winner. Here's my short list of duds in order of appearance. Since I'm well into season 6 of a series rewatch, my list is biased towards the latter series. Anyone else out there have their own weak Xena episodes list they'd care to add?

1. Fishsticks - Despite the lively day glo colours, it's a slow moving comic episode that includes an unlikable rubber octopus baby.
2. Who's Gurkhon - Gratuitous physical (possibly sexual) abuse of Xena. Virgil is at his most obnoxious in this episode as he gets a kick out of pretending to be a slave trader.
3. Path of Vengence - In fairness to this episode, the main problem with it is timing - an Eve/Varia centric episode is not what one would want near the end of the last season. An episode that ends with Varia's sudden hugs and forgiveness of Eve, the former female flesh peddler and sister be-header, doesn't help.
4. Friend in Need 1 & 2 - goes without saying.
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#2566

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Posted Jul 29, 2012 @ 10:24 AM

Anyone else out there have their own weak Xena episodes list they'd care to add?


Ulysses
Vanishing Act
King Con
Punch Lines
Lifeblood
The Abyss
Dangerous Prey
Last of the Centaurs

But, for me, the absolute worst Xena episode is Soul Possession. I can dismiss Married with Fishsticks as a silly dream and that's it, for example, but SP tries to make canon a bunch of things that make no sense whatsoever. And to make it worse it's the episode leading to the series finale. What even.
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#2567

HouseofJudith

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Posted Jul 29, 2012 @ 12:54 PM

Anyone else out there have their own weak Xena episodes list they'd care to add?



Eps I do not like and which have little to no redeeming value?
Season 3's "Vanishing Act".

Season 4's "The Play's the Thing"...

Season 5's "Purity", "Back in the Bottle" and "Married with Fishsticks"

Season 6 is actually one of my fav seasons... but if I had to pick one it would definitely be "Soul Possession".

Weak eps that do not do much for me or the show?

Season 3's "King Con",

Season 4's "Key to the Kingdom".

Okay... more to the point, name your own top 10 (or 15 if you must) FAVORITE Xena eps! (2 parters and trilogies count as 2 or 3 eps, as the case may be.)

Edited by HouseofJudith, Jul 29, 2012 @ 12:55 PM.

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#2568

Fungi Wisdom

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Posted Jul 29, 2012 @ 3:37 PM

Okay. Here's a best of list. I couldn't bear to separate out the two parters or trilogies through:

1. The Debt 1 & 2 for its epic story.
2. Devi/Between the Lines/The Way.
3. Adventures in the Sin Trade 1 & 2 for its own epic story.
4. When Fates Collide, as it finds a brilliant way of bringing back two major villains for one last amazing story.
5. Many Happy Returns but only for its over the top romantic ending. Whether or not one ships Xena and Gabrielle, any new watcher of the series should stop here and not bother watching the next three episodes, the last of the series.
6. Old Aries Had a Farm - the best comedy episode.
7. The Ides of March - well done all around; nicely illustrates Xena's strategic abilities despite what happened to her.

Edited to add "Calisto" - "Return of Calisto" and the groundhog day episode (name escapes me).

Edited by Fungi Wisdom, Jul 29, 2012 @ 6:05 PM.

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#2569

HouseofJudith

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Posted Jul 30, 2012 @ 7:51 AM

Groundhog day = "Been there, Done that"

AKA... "Is that a hickey?"

:-)
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#2570

Fungi Wisdom

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Posted Jul 30, 2012 @ 7:38 PM

Re: hickey - Indeed. Joxer picked a great time to be observant. One of the many reasons why I liked "Been there, Done that" is that it is one of the episodes that illustrates Xena and Gabrielle's affection for Joxer. When he "died" while intervening in that fight, they were truly broken up about it.
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#2571

HouseofJudith

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Posted Aug 5, 2012 @ 3:28 PM

My own "best" list...

Season 1:

"Altared States", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=zXtXaVxiyio

"Callisto", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Fa35zwWrxp4

"Is there a Doctor in the House?" http://www.youtube.c...h?v=5AL4O1iJ7wc



Season 2:

"Orphan of War", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FotuFXk_PTY

"Return of Callisto", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FuLzWhPL-lc

"Warrior, Princess, Tramp", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Mf54YUK_wWY

"Intimate Stranger", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=CaAIX0-hwUk

"A Day in the Life", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Q2X9L8akKgE

"The Price" http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JaRojNmBEG8

Season 3

"Been There, Done That", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=If6UaPtG9vI

"The Debts I & II", http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

"Maternal Instincts", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=k41mQkVQKoM

"The Bitter Suite", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=z9Sh3Ywa8Po

"One Against an Army", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=K6GOuscPErc

"Sacrifice II" http://www.youtube.c...feature=related



Season 4

"Locked up Tied Down", "Crusader", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yZh1zCMlm8I "The Convert",

"Endgame", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Ye2Rw6Bb6Z8

"Ides of March" http://www.youtube.c...h?v=w7Cw9_I-9rE

Season 5

"Fallen Angel", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=zMsjDRl9BgI

"God fearing Child", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fxSxWo2tqjM

"Amphipolis under Seige", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WkHPRakejpc

"Kindred Spirits", http://www.youtube.c...&feature=fvwrel

"Looking Death in the Eye", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=5fLcG_kLcHo

"Livia" http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4udwP-6bNm0

Season 6

"Who's Gurkhan?", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mbPOIvNZv28

"Legacy", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NO8iQKTPiwg

"Abyss", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_vsJn_xQ9Hk

"The Rheingold", "The Ring", "Return of the Valkyries" http://www.youtube.c...h?v=sGqTH7HpFpE

and the epilogue "And You Are There", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=IJb1LaD-xsQ

"Old Ares Had a Farm", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1zJlWIcBSNQ

"When Fates Collide", http://www.youtube.c...h?v=8cnsGJkYIbA

"Many Happy Returns". http://www.youtube.c...h?v=35NQXIt8aV0

Okay... so a few more than 15. ;-)


For the subtexters who felt unfullfilled by the finale... http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4OOjI66ylFw
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#2572

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Posted Aug 14, 2012 @ 9:50 AM

Woops. After my last post I thought I was subscribed to this topic and was disappointed to receive no emails. I assumed there was no activity and didn't bother to visit. Now I finally double check to see that someone replied to my post after all and there was even recent talk of a re-watch. If that's still on, count me in!

HouseofJudith: I assume you just watched the broadcast version, and not the extended/director's cut?

If so, I HIGHLY recommend getting the director's cut. It will still "hurt", (IMO) but much LESS!

I did, yes. Back then I was limited to Netflix. I've since bought the series box set and watched nearly every second of extras (a rarity for me). The director's cut is far superior, and I like that Tapert admitted that the very shot I was complaining about was a mistake.

As for "best" episodes (not to be confused with "favorite" episodes, though number 1 would definitely be the same), here are some ideas off the top of my head:

1. A Day in the Life
2. Debt II
3. Ides of March
4. The "Ring" Trilogy
5. When Fates Collide
6. One Against an Army
7. You Are There
8. Who's Gurkhan?

On a different topic, I'm going to DragonCon over Labor Day weekend, and I can't find a single Xena panel on the schedule. This is a huge convention (I think I read that at least 40,000 attended last year), and I'm flabbergasted that XWP won't be represented. Unless I win the lottery I'll never be able to afford the official Xena convention in Burbank, so this is a major bummer. Does anyone know if XWP typically has a presence at general sci-fi/fantasy conventions? Or do I pretty much have to go to a Xena only con?
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#2573

HouseofJudith

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Posted Aug 14, 2012 @ 5:47 PM

I don't know for sure... but IIRC I saw something recently about Lucy Lawless attending a strong women of scifi panel at one of the comic cons. perhaps that's what you need to look for/ask for?

An example... at Phoenix (Not with LL) http://www.youtube.c...h?v=upquhY-6bdE

A similar panel a few years ago elsewhere(?) with Lucy. (Obviously the videographer was JUST interested in Lucy.)

http://www.youtube.c...&feature=relmfu

And, in case there are no panels, you STILL might run into this at a comic con... (Xena on the prowl, looking for a suitable "mate". It's a bird, it's a plane... it's Captain TIGHTPANTS! ) http://www.youtube.c...qpQgAimXI#t=89s
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#2574

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Posted Aug 17, 2012 @ 4:06 AM

Thanks for the links, HouseofJudith! Even though I like Eureka, I'm not sure if I'll get around to that first one anytime soon. But the second video is part of a series from that one panel, and there were some pretty funny bits in there. I love Lucy's comedic instincts (overused though I felt they were on XWP).

Has anyone here read much X/G fanfic? I'm intimidated by the sheer number of stories out there, but I've just started wading in. So far my favorite by far has been a series that revolves heavily around Ephiny, Eponin, and Solari (those last two were essentially speaking extras in a couple of eps involving the Amazons). It's written by Del Robertson (Simply Irresistible, Retribution, and Redemption, which is ongoing). I've never before liked original characters in fanfic and usually avoid them like the plague, but she's developed a couple of really compelling personalities in Eponin and Solari, and I wish the show had given us an Ephiny closer to her interpretation. I've been going through withdrawal while waiting for the next installment, so I was in desperate need of some quality Ephiny screen time last week. I made the mistake of re-watching "The Last of the Centaurs." Ugh. Dreadful writing and dreadful acting by pretty much everyone but Renee and Danielle Cormack (not that Danielle had much to do). Ephiny looking stunning the whole time was the only redeeming quality of that ep.

After hearing so much hype about Melissa Good, I figured I should check out the fanfic writer who got herself a gig with the show. I'm about two and a half stories into what seems to be a 16 story series, and I have mixed feelings about it. I do think her characterizations of Xena and Gabrielle are the best I've found. But she desperately needs an editor, both for content and for grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Has anyone read a lot of her work? Does it get better? At this point I'm not sure if good characterization alone will get me through 13 1/2 more stories. Her godawful proofreading and inability to distinguish significant details from irrelevant (and tedious) ones are really starting to wear on me...
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#2575

HouseofJudith

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Posted Aug 17, 2012 @ 2:50 PM

After hearing so much hype about Melissa Good, I figured I should check out the fanfic writer who got herself a gig with the show. I'm about two and a half stories into what seems to be a 16 story series, and I have mixed feelings about it. I do think her characterizations of Xena and Gabrielle are the best I've found. But she desperately needs an editor, both for content and for grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Has anyone read a lot of her work? Does it get better? At this point I'm not sure if good characterization alone will get me through 13 1/2 more stories. Her godawful proofreading and inability to distinguish significant details from irrelevant (and tedious) ones are really starting to wear on me...


Alas, many fanfic writers can use such an editor, ESPECIALLY Ms Good. She IS good enough that I actually forked over the dough for her uber series on "Kerry & Dar" in paperback form. Still, I'd love to be her beta reader just to clean things up re: spelling and continuity.

I think my fav X&G will always be Leslie Miller's "What Mother Never Told me"... found here with other examples of her X&G and Uber work... http://www.academyof...lie_miller.html


Her "Conquered" is a nod to the alternative universe character seen in Hercules (The Conquerer) and is pretty good too.

ETA: What happens when you cross Xena and Michael Jackson:

I love it when Xena screams "You B ITCH!" at 1:20-21
http://www.youtube.c...&feature=relmfu

Edited by HouseofJudith, Aug 17, 2012 @ 5:56 PM.

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#2576

natyxg

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Posted Aug 17, 2012 @ 9:41 PM

After hearing so much hype about Melissa Good, I figured I should check out the fanfic writer who got herself a gig with the show. I'm about two and a half stories into what seems to be a 16 story series, and I have mixed feelings about it. I do think her characterizations of Xena and Gabrielle are the best I've found. But she desperately needs an editor, both for content and for grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Has anyone read a lot of her work? Does it get better? At this point I'm not sure if good characterization alone will get me through 13 1/2 more stories. Her godawful proofreading and inability to distinguish significant details from irrelevant (and tedious) ones are really starting to wear on me.


I've read a couple of her stories. I remember liking Promises Kept and The Circle of life...I also really liked the first installment of her Conqueror series. She can write very pretty coupley scenes. My problem with her stories (and series) is that they drag on forever... and ever.... and ever... to the point where you stop caring (at least I do). Last I checked she was still writing in her Xena/Gabrielle series.

I do admire that she can write so much, though.
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#2577

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Posted Aug 17, 2012 @ 11:28 PM

HouseofJudith: Alas, many fanfic writers can use such an editor, ESPECIALLY Ms Good.

Ain't that the truth. However, it surprises me that someone who clearly has such good instincts about the characters and who got hired by the damn show doesn't even have the good sense to run a spell check. I'm used to seeing the sorts of errors a spell check wouldn't pick up, and I know a couple of very good fanfic writers who choose not to use a beta for various reasons (although they're both good enough that their typos are minimal). But there's just no excuse in the world for not using spell check, and Ms. Good clearly didn't with the stories I've read so far. It's sloppy and I daresay a bit inconsiderate to her readers, given how little effort it would take.

Thanks for the Leslie Miller rec; I'll definitely check it out!

natyxg: My problem with her stories (and series) is that they drag on forever... and ever.... and ever... to the point where you stop caring (at least I do).

Yes, and I'm quickly approaching the not caring stage. I appreciate that she's trying to take her time with significant emotional developments, but it's starting to feel like she's treading a lot of the same ground over and over within the same story. And as I said before, she doesn't know when to gloss over things and move on the next scene of import. It's a common enough mistake among fanfic writers, but it really weighs the entire story down when one is as verbose as Ms. Good.

I'd again highly recommend the Del Robertson stories I linked to. She's not perfect by any means. For instance, her sex scenes just weren't very hot IMHO (she's obsessed with finding alternate words to describe body parts in order to avoid being repetitive, but she often ends up with terms that are just not sexy). However, I find her more readable overall than the vast majority of fanfic writers. And I think she's either gotten a good beta or had some feedback on her writing between story 2 and story 3 because I've noticed a marked improvement in "Redemption." I'm kinda in love with her characters, so if anyone decides to read her work, I'd love to hear what you think!
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#2578

HouseofJudith

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Posted Aug 18, 2012 @ 4:52 PM

TNovan & Advocate have a good "Conqueror" style story called "Soul Searching" http://www.academyofbards.org/authors/advocate_tnovan.html

One of my "problems" with X&G stories in general is that the raging hormones overwhelm most storlines, and that in these "Plot what Plot" tales our characters frequently act OUT of character merely to service the raging hormones.

For example, we know that even when driven mad by the Furies, or under the influence of an obsession spell by Aphrodite, or stressed over the impending DEATH of Gabrielle & Eve... Xena will STILL devise a plan to save the day because, AS WE ALL KNOW she has MANY skills.

Unless she's locked in a fanfic where her jealousy or her insecurity over something Gabrielle has done will cloud her judgement or distract her unmercifully.

That's why I love "What Mother Never Told Me." Even when you think something is Out Of Character, the author can turn it around and show us what's really going on.

T Novon has a big X/G "classic" section too, besides the uber stuff. http://ausxip.com/tnovan/index.html Again, you have to go into the X/G stuff with a huger shaker of salt, due to occasional random OOC tendencies even there. I think that's the real reason I started reading more uber stories... "they" are allowed to stray from the true Xena/true Gabrielle path without as much "tsking" from my corner of the peanut gallery.

ex's of T Novans uber that really IS X&G... in 3 parts

http://www.ausxip.co...weneversay.html followed by

http://www.ausxip.co...riorspirit.html ending with...

http://www.ausxip.co...riceoflove.html

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ha824Z6NSpI
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#2579

sienna gold

sienna gold

    Fanatic

Posted Aug 19, 2012 @ 3:54 PM

Okie dokes. So I am doing a Fly-By Rewatch. (hee September is coming up fast and I'll be way too entrenched in all things British Television to really dedicate time to Xena + netflix is super laggy).

Out of the episodes I've watched this far

Season One:
Sins of the Past
Hooves & Harlots
Greater Good
Callisto
Is there a Doctor in the House?

and

Season Two (which I'm on)
Orphan of War
Remember Nothing
Return of Callisto


I've decided that I've pretty much figured out what kind of bugged me. I don't like the exclusion of Hercules. Yes, he's mentioned (when Gabrielle makes Xena promise to end the cycle of hate) and he's in the ONE cross over we'll ever get in 5 years of Xena - but I don't like it that Gabrielle is the one accredited with the whole "You made me who I am, You've turned me good, etc etc, wax poetic." Well. No. Gabrielle's not. Hercules is.

SO I wonder if something happens after Unchained Heart to make Xena so despondent, or if it's more, "I'm not with Hercules anymore, and all the 10 years of everlasting destruction I've done just hit me now." (which could very well have been the case.... a line though in the first two seasons would have been AWESOME). Because as someone (It might have been HouseofJudith) - she was borderline suicidal.

With Orphan of War - I love how we're introduced to a kid. And it kind of leaves credence to why Xena doesn't kill children. Especially when we see Evil Xena before Solan's born, she really has no earthly patience with them, and you know that she wouldn't mind killing one if it meant getting to where she needs to be. The birth of Solan changes everything. It wouldn't surprise me that every baby she projected her son's face on them. (Which makes me wish that they really had more Baby + Xena time with the Pandora episode, but I bet no pun intended, Solan wasn't conceived yet).

(Also - the continuity of Gabrielle's shock and quasi horror that Xena practically abandoned her baby, because "she's a mother." which will totally be in character when.. well.. you know - we're not there yet.).

But an aggravation which is why I love the concept of Callisto (just wish they didn't make her so bat-poop insane) is that Xena's debts can never truly be repaid. But it's like Gabrielle refuses to see it and thinks just because SHE knows Xena is good now, and look what she does in the name of good - everyone should just up and forgive her. (Orphan of War and most episodes). No. It doesn't erase everything. (and most times the grieved + Xena kiss and make up, but I am glad that trend actually became less and less the later the series went on).

Gabrielle marrying Perdicus made me angry because a huge part of it felt like she was only doing it because she felt sorry for him, which is why this whole "Callisto is my worst enemy, I'm gonna destroy her." felt so... so. fake. (And the fact that it pretty much carried on for the rest of the series.... it bugged. I'll explain more in Season 3).


Joxer. Oh. I wish they didn't make him so much of a bungling clown, and this is one of my irritants as well. Xena & Gabrielle treat him like crap most of the time. It's only when he's hurt (gravely), or does something truly noble (save Argo by this time), is when they soften up and truly show how much they care. Yes he was annoying but even in the beginning you just got this idea that he wants to be loved, accepted, and wanted. And you'd think that Gabrielle (who is tender-hearted with everyone) would have seen that, but she treats him horrendously bad. Xena for the most part treats everyone the same (but Joxer got treated like crap too).

(also I find it hilarious that in Remember Nothing, Xena pretty much gives up Lyceious to save Gabrielle and her blood innocence. oooh, irony).

So now I get to watch the person who pretty much shaped Xena to be EVOL. Caesar. (Which is my favourite episode. Though even though she was betrayed, I still don't really get what pushed her to pirate to save Amphipolous, to "Kill them All!!" (where I'm assuming she gave all of less than two craps about her home town).
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#2580

MidnightFrost

MidnightFrost

    Couch Potato

Posted Aug 19, 2012 @ 10:40 PM

HouseofJudith: That's why I love "What Mother Never Told Me."

I just finished that story, and it was very well written. That kept me reading even though I don't generally care for stories that get too far from the premise of the show.

sienna gold: I don't like the exclusion of Hercules. Yes, he's mentioned (when Gabrielle makes Xena promise to end the cycle of hate) and he's in the ONE cross over we'll ever get in 5 years of Xena - but I don't like it that Gabrielle is the one accredited with the whole "You made me who I am, You've turned me good, etc etc, wax poetic." Well. No. Gabrielle's not. Hercules is.

I can see where you're coming from, and it would have been nice if the show had given us a clearer explanation of what happened around that time and the role that Hercules played in the grand scheme of things. But I see Xena's recovery kinda the way addicts recover. Hercules might have been the final straw that made her decide to give up her warlording (I know that's not a word), but it was Gabrielle who gave her the strength to stay on the wagon and figure out something more useful to do with her life. Perhaps I'm imagining things, but didn't Xena say at some point that she was "lost" when she buried her armor and weapons? Maybe she knows she'd have relapsed pretty quickly if not for Gabrielle.

sienna gold: But an aggravation which is why I love the concept of Callisto (just wish they didn't make her so bat-poop insane) is that Xena's debts can never truly be repaid. But it's like Gabrielle refuses to see it and thinks just because SHE knows Xena is good now, and look what she does in the name of good - everyone should just up and forgive her. (Orphan of War and most episodes). No. It doesn't erase everything.

I agree, and I consider Gabrielle's tunnel vision to be one of her flaws. If I were one of Xena's former victims, I'm not sure I'd forgive her. What she decided to do with her life might have been more productive than sitting in prison somewhere, but I would expect most of her victims wouldn't give a damn and would just want to see her punished. The writers certainly addressed that at times, but I guess they were reluctant to make the show too depressing by having nearly every former victim continue to hate her no matter what.

sienna gold: Joxer. Oh. I wish they didn't make him so much of a bungling clown, and this is one of my irritants as well. Xena & Gabrielle treat him like crap most of the time.

Maybe, but I didn't care. He was annoying as hell, and his attempts to be a warrior were idiotic at best and flat out irresponsible at worst. If he'd simply been willing to admit to his weaknesses and behave accordingly, I'm sure they'd have been much more sympathetic. But as far as I'm concerned, he brought a lot of it on himself.

If you want company for your Fly-By Rewatch, I'm game (and it helps that you're already past season one, which was my least favorite). Just let me know which episodes you plan to watch and the approximate time frame you have in mind to get through them.
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