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Roadkill Jen


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#31

Hitwoman

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Posted Oct 6, 2004 @ 11:47 PM

Wow, Nazarene. You're way more of a martyr than me. If you didn't like Dawson or Joey or Pacey's scenes with either of them.... Isn't that, like, 85% of each ep?
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#32

Nazarene

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Posted Oct 6, 2004 @ 11:50 PM

I'm just strange like that- watching a show while not liking either of the main characters. I really need a life. ;]

I've read the recaps of the series finale and some of the posts. Did they say exactly what disease she had?

Edited because my useless rant threw the thread off-topic.

Edited by Nazarene, Oct 7, 2004 @ 12:01 AM.

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#33

swansong

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Posted Oct 7, 2004 @ 7:52 AM

Just curious: what did people not like about Jen? For me, I think she got away with too much mouth to Grams. I can't imagine Grams, particularly stern S1 Grams, putting up with that stuff.


That always bugged me. It especially bugged me in that first season episode when Bessie has her baby and Grams is trying to calm Bessie down and Jen keeps making comments which are completely unhelpful about how things were going wrong instead of listening to Grams. I was glad Grams told her to shut.

And I know Joey gets alot of flack about being wishy washy in relationships, but quite frankly I think Jen could have taught lessons. Her back and forth with Dawson in s1 -first she wants him, then she doesn't, then she wants to try life on her own, then she's suddenly madly in love with him and wants him back- grew tiresome very quickly. I just wanted her to move on already.And her relationship with Henry actually made me feel great sympathy for him which considering how little I liked him and how much I liked her and thought she could do better was quite a feat. Even though it always bugged me how tptb constantly portrayed Jen as every guy's second choice and I just wanted to see her in a relationship where the guy was completely into her and wasn't just treading water until Joey became available or whatever, Jen when she was in a relationship always wound up bugging me at some point.
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#34

pretzels

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Posted Oct 7, 2004 @ 8:10 AM

And I know Joey gets alot of flack about being wishy washy in relationships, but quite frankly I think Jen could have taught lessons.


word. I also felt bad for Henry sometimes
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#35

whyonearth

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Posted Oct 7, 2004 @ 10:03 AM

Nazarene, In "All Good Things..." Jen says:

Decreased left ventricular-systolic function. It's a whole blood-not-pumping-right to my heart. And it's causing a lot of problems in my lungs. It's called pulmonary congestion.


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#36

mokey

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Posted Oct 7, 2004 @ 1:06 PM

Word on how Jen spoke to Grams. I also did not like any s*m8 fluffing she did. But I hated hearing that from anyone and everyone who did it.
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#37

whyonearth

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Posted Oct 19, 2004 @ 8:10 PM

This isn't at all insightful or snarky (the usual reasons to post on TWoP) but I must be in a fluffy mood because I decided that it was worth posting anyway: Jen is *absolutely, breathtakingly gorgeous* in S4. It's like Michelle Williams had gotten to a really good place in her life or something. It wasn't necessarily a big physical change (though the good hair helped); it seemed to be more internal. God, I feel so New Age saying that but it's true. Has anyone else noticed that, too?

Edited by whyonearth, Oct 19, 2004 @ 8:48 PM.

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#38

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Posted Oct 19, 2004 @ 8:26 PM

ITA whyonearth. I was just thinking the other day how great she looked in S5 too. Which makes the tragedy that is her S6 Little Dutchboy hairdo all the more painful because MW is really quite stunning.
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#39

WiseGal

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Posted Oct 19, 2004 @ 8:47 PM

'Word' to the both of ya.
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#40

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Posted Oct 19, 2004 @ 9:54 PM

I thought she looked gorgeous in season 5. IMO she looks absolutely adorable when she's dancing in that chair to "Teenage Wasteland" in the finale.

Her worst look? Well, there's the Pageboy from Hell, of course. But I have to say that overly made-up and way overplucked season 1 Jen isn't my very fave.
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#41

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Posted Oct 19, 2004 @ 11:35 PM

Agree with all of you -- Jen was stunning in S4 and much of S5. And that solo sing-along was absolutely wonderful! She looked -- and moved -- great!
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#42

Ms. Rational

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 1:23 PM

IMO she looks absolutely adorable when she's dancing in that chair to "Teenage Wasteland" in the finale.


I LOVE that scene. It's so very Jen in the best way.

And while I agree that I never liked her look during S1, I now look back on it more fondly. But that's probably because Jen was my absolute least favorite character back then but she turned into possibly my favorite. Well, ok after Pacey, second favorite. But that's not really a fair fight.
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#43

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 2:48 PM

Her worst look? Well, there's the Pageboy from Hell, of course. But I have to say that overly made-up and way overplucked season 1 Jen isn't my very fave.


Ha! Hitwoman, all I can think of is a turkey.

Actually, I can see why that look was used to make her look more mature and experienced so that D and P's jaws would be dropping for a reason. I mean, if she'd shown up looking like she did in S2 everyone would be thinking she ran away from New York so no one there would see her hair. However, it's still pretty obvious that MW was the youngest member of the cast and the look did nothing to hide the fact. (I didn't mind the pageboy, to tell the truth. It was odd but interesting.)

But that's probably because Jen was my absolute least favorite character back then but she turned into possibly my favorite.


Rational, I started watching the show in S2 the first time around and I thought Jen was pretty nasty then but I too came around. The thing is, when I saw S1 later I couldn't understand why they changed her so much in S2 because she seemed quite nice in S1 and then all of a sudden she turned vile. Good thing they redeemed her in later seasons 'cause I really liked her a lot, probably the best of the bunch.
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#44

whyonearth

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:13 PM

Welcome back, So To Speak! You haven't posted in a long time.

I mean, if she'd shown up looking like she did in S2 everyone would be thinking she ran away from New York so no one there would see her hair.


Hee!

The thing is, when I saw S1 later I couldn't understand why they changed her so much in S2 because she seemed quite nice in S1 and then all of a sudden she turned vile.


ITA, I understood the downward spiral but I definitely didn't like the way that TPTB chose to go about it. I'd have to watch S2 again to decide if I'd classify her as vile (I've been watching S3 and S4 lately so it's hard to think bad things about her) but I definitely didn't much like her in S2. Poor MW, no wonder she did all of those interviews about how much the fans hated her and how sad it made her. She's just so fragile looking and Jen is such a fragile character that I just want to swoop in like some sort of overprotective big sister and save her.

Edited by whyonearth, Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:14 PM.

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#45

Jennifer

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:16 PM

Forgive me if this has been said before, but I always thought the reason Jen changed so much, look and personality wise, was because when the show started, she was cast to be the female lead. She was the beautiful, blonde bombshell from NY.

As it became obvious that she was not the fan favorite, TPTB seemed to flounder about with her character trying to find the niche that she fit into and trying to continue using her even though they didn't really know what direction to take with the character.

Her statement in S6, as Jen, about feeling like she never fit in anywhere, pretty much summed it up for me.

I didn't like S1 wishy-washy Jen, or S2 hellcat Jen. I loved it when TPTB seemed to focus on her vulnerability though and really thought she was underused and underated as the show went on.
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#46

cheeriogirl

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:25 PM

ITA, Jennifer. TPTB got a diamond in the rough way back when, and then promptly kept it from gleaming. Jen, and thus, MW, who is a wonderful actress, was appallingly underutilized. And you can tell, b/c when she got her turn to shine (belatedly) in the finale, she really just blew everyone away! Everytime I watch it, though I know what comes already, her performance still comes off so fresh, I am moved to sobbing, every single time!
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#47

Jennifer

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:29 PM

I have to skip over the scenes in the finale when she tapes herself for Amy. Still makes me sob like a baby.
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#48

whyonearth

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:30 PM

I know that there has been a lot of discussion on this forum about how MW had read this board at least once or twice and had also recommended it to some of the other cast members. I occasionally find myself wondering if she ever checks up any more. From what she said in interviews, the show wasn't great for her self-esteem. I'll bet that this board would do wonders for it...Lord knows that she deserves it.

Edited by whyonearth, Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:35 PM.

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#49

cheeriogirl

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:49 PM

Hear, hear, WOE! MW, IF you ever come back to read this -- WE LOVE YOU! And Jennifer -- yup, that monologue to her daughter is a pure sorrow fest, in the most sincerest and genuine of ways.
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#50

Ms. Rational

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 4:08 PM

Her statement in S6, as Jen, about feeling like she never fit in anywhere, pretty much summed it up for me.


I always find that line so heartbreaking because while it's totally true, I also think she's the key to the whole thing. I mean, the series started when she came into Capeside and it ended when she died.

It always struck me that even though MW was the youngest, she always seemed older, more mature somehow. I always sensed in Jen that she could see everything that was going on among the other three and was just waiting for them to figure it out on their own. And since lord knows the writers weren't good enough to implement that in the scripts, it was really all MW.

While she was awesome in the finale and I was so happy to see MW with something really good to do, I'm still incredibly bitter that Jen had to die. I really wanted that character to find some happiness. More than all of the rest of them combined, she deserved it.

I just really can not say enough good things about Michelle Williams.
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#51

cheeriogirl

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 4:22 PM

ITA, Ms. Rational. And I think we'll have even better things to say about Michelle Williams, as time goes on. Her choices, for the most part, have been good ones (since Halloween H2O, anyway. Besides -- every young teen actor needs to have at least ONE of those on their resume! JJ had Urban Legends and KH had Teaching Mrs. Tingle!), and her performances, really quite exceptional (loved her in Dick and Station Agent). As she matures into her roles, we'll see even more marvelous things in the future, surely. And I, for one, am looking forward to it.
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#52

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 11:26 PM

Welcome back, So To Speak! You haven't posted in a long time.


Thanks, whyonearth. I'm shocked anyone noticed. I've been kinda busy and, frankly, S5 and S6 are so boring I can hardly think of anything to say. Except for "Appetite for Disaster" or whatever it's called which is great with Audrey smearing/spilling/dumping food on herself to get away from the table. I love that.

But about Jen's downward spiral, I'm not really sure what it was all about. Was it her home situation? Dawson? Life in Capeside? It just seemed so sudden and extreme.
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#53

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Posted Oct 20, 2004 @ 11:44 PM

I noticed too, So to Speak. There's been no one to argue with me lately. Except the lone little triangle thing, and that was more of a disagreement. ;)

As to Jen and what happened caused the spiral, I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility (unlike many other storylines on DC). After all, she was probably still half in a state of shock when she was sent to Capeside. She'd caught her father in flagrante delicto and had herself caught by him in retaliation, and no matter how much she liked to believe herself a hard-hearted wild child, we all know she was a softie on the inside. I think she needed that first semester at Grams's place to steady herself, and to reorient herself mentally. And I even suspect she had mostly put the whole nasty episode with her father out of her mind. But as the semester wore on, it's possible that two things began to happen: (1) as she recovered her balance, she began to long for home and hearth, especially as the holidays approached (and all unweatherly DC clothing to the contrary, that would have been between seasons 1 and 2) and also (2) as she recovered her balance, it's equally possible that the events she'd been in denial about began to intrude on her psyche again. And it's even possible that both of those things were going on at once. She was longing for her parents no matter how horrible they'd been to her, and they weren't interested in having her around. Meanwhile she's starting to deal with exactly what it was that caused her exile in the first place.

And if either or both of those things weren't enough, we have Dawson deciding she's not good enough for him (which was basically what happened) and the resulting trauma from that fiasco plus her alienation from the gang and even Abby's death. Given all that, is it any wonder that Jen went off the deep end? The only real puzzle is how she managed to hold it together as well as she did.
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#54

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Posted Oct 21, 2004 @ 12:00 AM

ITA, Hitwoman. No argument from me on that end (unfortunately, hee!). (*looks up*) Oh! I've been promoted again! What's a Video Archivist? Oh well, off-topic question, so never mind...

Best thing about #602 coming up over at the syndie thread -- the infamous "roadkill quote" from Jen. Her delivery of it is just so great.

Edited by cheeriogirl, Oct 21, 2004 @ 12:00 AM.

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#55

WiseGal

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Posted Oct 21, 2004 @ 1:07 AM

What's a Video Archivist?


Someone who is in charge of collecting video archives or something. *shrug* ("_")

I agree about the roadkill quote, cheeriogirl. It was definitely great delivery.
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#56

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Posted Oct 21, 2004 @ 3:01 AM

(1) as she recovered her balance, she began to long for home and hearth, especially as the holidays approached (and all unweatherly DC clothing to the contrary, that would have been between seasons 1 and 2) and also (2) as she recovered her balance, it's equally possible that the events she'd been in denial about began to intrude on her psyche again. And it's even possible that both of those things were going on at once. She was longing for her parents no matter how horrible they'd been to her, and they weren't interested in having her around. Meanwhile she's starting to deal with exactly what it was that caused her exile in the first place.

And if either or both of those things weren't enough, we have Dawson deciding she's not good enough for him (which was basically what happened) and the resulting trauma from that fiasco plus her alienation from the gang and even Abby's death.



Hitwoman, ITA. But wanted to add into that mix, the death of her grandfather. And before Abby died, her influence over Jen during all of this trauma.

Abby's influence alone, IMO, really helped to send Jen off the edge, into her down spiral. In the first ep. of s2, Jen seemed pretty depressed about her grandfather's passing and went to look for support from her friends. With Dawson having just gotten a clue and Joey being protective of that, and Pacey being off in his own world, (which I like to think of as Pacey's s2 sitcom, having guest appearances with the cast of the show which his spin off originated from, but that is OT so...), a very rejected Jen was served nice and ripe for Abby to provide a path of self destruction for her. Sure her life in NY had its faults, (ok. it was down right screwed up, apparently), but the types of faults in her NY life style were something Jen probably felt more comfortable dealing with, as if in NY bad girl mode she felt more in control. In addition to this, ignoring the root of the true problems, and numbing herself with alcohol & teen anger, probably felt better than the pain of rejection from, initially her friends, and then Dawson after Abby influenced her to pursue that, the NY memories of her dad that she was burying, and the death of her grandfather, the rejection from her parents, and her generally sour relationship with grams.



Edited because NE and NY are 2 completely different places :)

Edited by mokey, Oct 21, 2004 @ 3:03 AM.

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#57

cheeriogirl

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Posted Oct 21, 2004 @ 10:24 AM

Great addition regarding Jen's S2 angst, mokey. Oh, and though off-topic:

which I like to think of as Pacey's s2 sitcom, having guest appearances with the cast of the show which his spin off originated from


Hee! Because that is SO true! : )
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#58

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Posted Oct 30, 2004 @ 1:03 AM

Got to agree about everything that people have said about Jen/Michelle on this thread. Glad she now has her own thread, as she deserves one.

Jen is the sort of character that you warm to more and more as you rewatch the show. A very complex character, that if fleshed out properly could have been such a great character.

I think Michelle had a bit of a love/hate relationship with Jen, in that depending on the story line, she either liked playing her or disliked playing her. As an actor, that is probably very natural though.
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#59

TripleMaster

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Posted Oct 30, 2004 @ 6:42 AM

I love Jen. Her depth and complexity are awesome! Horrible story lines, but MW was great, nevertheless.

Edited days later to add that I thought MW's performance surrounding the news of Grams' breast cancer was terrific. When she turns on the gentle, caring side, the contrast with the girl who rocked the creek is remarkable. While I was initially just a Joey-fan, then a P/J fan, I have also become a Jen fan.

Edited by TripleMaster, Nov 4, 2004 @ 5:42 PM.

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#60

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Posted Nov 4, 2004 @ 9:36 PM

ITA. She is so great in these eps. I find that going back to S1 & 2, I always watch Jen's scenes now, even though I really hated her character the first time around. I don't know if it's because Jen dies in the end so I'm nostalgic or if it's because I can now see what an amazing actress MW is, either way, I FF thru a ton of the early stuff (including Pacey stuff, the whole Ms. Jacobs thing never used to bug me but now that I'm older it completely icks me out) but I always find her performances even better on repeated viewings.

Edited by Ms. Rational, Nov 4, 2004 @ 9:37 PM.

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