Jump to content

Everybody Loves Raymond


  • Please log in to reply

5278 replies to this topic

#4411

MittenGirl

MittenGirl

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 12:00 AM

I wonder if it wasn't that Debra was more into healthful cooking, rather than Marie's likely high fat, high calorie, high sodium dishes. There was the episode where Deb wanted to serve fish for Thanksgiving and also the episode where Marie and Frank are comparing their blood pressure and cholesterol scores and Marie decides to start cooking better. Debra shows Marie a bunch of "healthy cooking" cookbooks. I think that may also be the tofu turkey Thanksgiving.

So, if Debra is using lowfat cheese, leaner cuts of meat, less butter, salt, sugar and cheese, etc., I can see the Barones equating that with not-as-tasty.
  • 0

#4412

ByTor

ByTor

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 8:28 PM

There was an older episode where Debra made a terrible cake. Robert moved back home after being gored by the bull, and he got the news that he'd have to stay with his parents a few more weeks. The family saw Robert at his apartment for his birthday & Debra made a cake. Robert was being such a jerk that Marie said he deserved that cake. Homily...you are right, that cake was so crooked, there is NO way she wouldn't have gone to a bakery! I did, however, always give her credit for trying, even though she had to know she was going to be slammed by Marie.
  • 0

#4413

peeayebee

peeayebee

    Stalker

Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 9:58 PM

I love that ep, ByTor. It was on a couple of weeks ago.
  • 0

#4414

SnarkySheep

SnarkySheep

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 7:43 AM

Anyone recall offhand if ELR ever had an Easter episode? Sometimes I like to watch holiday eps on the appropriate holidays, and I haven't seen any ELR at all in a long while, so it'd be fun...
  • 0

#4415

Homily

Homily

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 9:20 AM

I know there are a couple of them but the only one I can think of offhand is The Canister. The episode where Marie has loaned Debra a canister and Debra has convinced Marie she doesn't have it. But it turns out she does and she needs to get it back without Marie finding out. IMO one of Patty Heaton's best performances.

Oh there's also the later season one with the MacDougalls (Amy's parents) spending Easter with the Barones. It's the one where Pat and Ray bond of the Sacred Death jigsaw puzzle.
  • 0

#4416

ByTor

ByTor

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 7:01 PM

Oh, the Canister, love it! Ray was wearing one bitching jacket! :)
  • 0

#4417

SnarkySheep

SnarkySheep

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 11:05 AM

Oh, thanks!! Those are both good ones...and Georgia Engel's been guest starring all over my favorite sitcoms lately, so I should go with that one.
  • 0

#4418

CherryAmes

CherryAmes

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 11:23 AM

I think The Good Girls episode from season 2 starts off at Easter. It's the episode where we find out the reason Marie likes Amy better than Debra is because Amy is a "good girl". It's also the episode that leads to one of the strangest parts of the Barone back history - the idea that Marie and Frank could have lied to Robbie for over 40 years as to when he was actually born. He had to have his birth registered somewhere - even in the 1950s I doubt very much parents could just put any date they wanted on a birth certificate!

Edited by CherryAmes, Apr 6, 2012 @ 11:23 AM.

  • 0

#4419

Homily

Homily

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 12:38 PM

That really bothers me too! ELR was generally better than that in terms of not going to far with unrealistic storylines but not realizing that a 40 yr old man was bound to have seen his birth certificate at one time or another really took the biscuit for unlikely.
  • 0

#4420

edmonds

edmonds

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 1:05 PM

The birth certificate thing has always bothered me too. You need to show it to get a driver's license, you certainly need to provide it when applying for an opening at the police academy, you absolutely have to have it to get a passport, etc. The fact that they were saying they 'just told' him his birth was 2 months later than it actually happened was always so lame. Of course a grown man of 40 would have to possess a copy of his own birth certificate and have used it many times. Not knowing the date a person was born was more like something an old I Love Lucy type show would use as a plot device.
  • 0

#4421

kassa

kassa

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 2:36 PM

It also would have been perfectly easy to work around -- you tell the kid you were married a year EARLIER than you were.

Not that that happened in my family or anything.
  • 0

#4422

CherryAmes

CherryAmes

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 6:45 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that annoying! I mean it's not on the same level as Golden Girls and its wacky non-existent consistency but it probably bugs me more than it should just because ELR was pretty good about not doing stuff like that!
  • 0

#4423

schnauzerlover

schnauzerlover

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 2:33 PM

I love the episode where Amy spends an hour with Raymond and we go into the whole Amy-talks-too-much scenario. This is one of my favorites because Amy tells Ray he's boring and he is! What's he interested in except sports and sex? He called Amy Lady Chatterly, but did he know anything about LC? Probably not because it's so inapplicable to Amy; it was just a clever play on words.

Debra reads and is interested in the arts. Marie loves opera, studies French, taught piano and went to the sculpture class. Robert knew a lot about To Kill a Mockingbird (OK, maybe that's because of his crush on Debra). Frank seems to be pretty well-read.

Anyhow, of all the Barones, Raymond is the least interesting because he's so limited. My opinion, of course, but everytime Amy tells Ray he's a bore, I want to shout "Yes!"
  • 0

#4424

SnarkySheep

SnarkySheep

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 4:23 PM

Well, the Barones were hard-core Italian, which to me implies really Catholic; growing up very Catholic myself, I know that in order to be confirmed, you had to bring both your birth certificate and your parents' marriage certificate to class toward the end of the course. (I also remember a certain amount of glee among my friends, comparing info and deducing whose parents got married because of them, as we were just at the age where we were beginning to be conscious of such matters...) So I would think Robert might have uncovered it the same way. However, I think that people used to get confirmed much younger, like around age nine, at least according to my mother. So, it's possible that Robert was just too young to put two and two together at the time.
  • 0

#4425

SunShine Gal

SunShine Gal

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 5:21 PM

the idea that Marie and Frank could have lied to Robbie for over 40 years as to when he was actually born.

Add me to the list who thinks that was odd. It was another "stick it to Robbie" moment thrown in for a cheap laugh. ITA, lying about the year they were married would make more sense.

Then there's Marie's hypocrisy expecting her daughter-in-laws to have been virgins before marriage, but Marie wasn't a "good girl" herself. I laughed when Frank told Marie's secret. I'd like to think that Frank didn't like seeing Debra and Amy treated that way by Marie and in his way he was trying to protect them. That was sweet of Frank. I wish we'd seen more of that.

Some favorite lines:

Marie: "I fell for your father's boyish good looks... it was a long time ago."

Amy: "Go ahead, Marie... I won't tell."

Robert: "How old am I now?"
  • 0

#4426

Homily

Homily

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 7:51 PM

However, I think that people used to get confirmed much younger, like around age nine, at least according to my mother. So, it's possible that Robert was just too young to put two and two together at the time.

I'm about the same age as Ray was supposed to be (and Robbie is Ray + 4) so if they did communion and confirmation in the US the same way we did it in Canada Robbie would only have been about 7-8 when he was confirmed.
  • 0

#4427

BX60

BX60

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 12:01 AM

I am a little older than Ray or Robert. I went to Catholic School was confirmed in fifth grade, at age 11.
  • 0

#4428

realwatcher

realwatcher

    Channel Surfer

Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 6:22 PM

My father was over 50 when he found out his name was legally "baby boy". He found out when he needed his birth certificate to get a passport. He had to get his name legally changed to Louis. This was years after being registered for school and serving in the army.
  • 0

#4429

ByTor

ByTor

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 6:36 PM

I love the episode where Amy spends an hour with Raymond and we go into the whole Amy-talks-too-much scenario.

The only thing I didn't especially like about this episode was that Ray's obvious discomfort around Amy & her talkative ways seemed to come from out of the blue. He acted like he didn't know Amy very well, when the truth is he had known her for years. Surely he must have known that she was a Lady Chatterly by then ;-)

Edited by ByTor, Apr 21, 2012 @ 6:37 PM.

  • 0

#4430

Maxbird

Maxbird

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 8:51 PM

Speaking of Robert, I'm seeing more of these reruns and always wonder why he is so maligned by his family? I know Marie favors Ray but I'd think Frank would love a manly cop for a son. He's nice looking, kind to everyone and everything, has a good job, we know he's a good dancer, likes sports, gets along with everyone in general. I know he was written as a sadsack loser a lot of times for comedic value. Ray was a selfish boring ass, lying to Debra and everyone always to avoid confrontation, doing anything he could to avoid chores and child care. Not that I cared for later season Debra the Shrew either. Robert, on the other hand, was wonderful with the kids, wanted everyone to be happy, yet his mother thought the sun rose and set on lazy Raymond. Go figure.
  • 3

#4431

edmonds

edmonds

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:03 AM

Speaking of Robert, I'm seeing more of these reruns and always wonder why he is so maligned by his family? I know Marie favors Ray but I'd think Frank would love a manly cop for a son. He's nice looking, kind to everyone and everything, has a good job, we know he's a good dancer, likes sports, gets along with everyone in general. I know he was written as a sadsack loser a lot of times for comedic value. Ray was a selfish boring ass, lying to Debra and everyone always to avoid confrontation, doing anything he could to avoid chores and child care. Not that I cared for later season Debra the Shrew either. Robert, on the other hand, was wonderful with the kids, wanted everyone to be happy, yet his mother thought the sun rose and set on lazy Raymond. Go figure.


I agree with you totally on this point. I also think that many times when Robert did act poorly or selfishly it could be traced back to all the flack he got from his parents and Ray. How many times did Frank and Ray make comments about how big Robert was? Ray was always talking about his big clown feet and body, Frank called him a giant (and not in a nice way, of course). The few times Marie really treated Robert in a special way was because she was mad at Ray and was trying to show Ray she did not need him anymore. Robert overall was so much more genuinely concerned about others, their feelings, trying to be helpful, etc. than Ray would ever be.

I do think Frank felt a little closer to Robert in that Frank has made many comments about how Ray was a sissy boy. I do think Frank admired Robert for being a policeman. There is no reason for Marie to favor cry baby, whiney, lazy Ray over Robert that is obvious to viewers. I feel that even in the FBI episode (where many felt she finally expressed her concern for Robert) that she was really just letting everyone know how Robert being an FBI agent would affect HER. SHE would worry, SHE was anxious about him taking that job.
  • 1

#4432

SnarkySheep

SnarkySheep

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 1:52 PM

I always thought that Robert and Debra would've made a good couple...remember how much fun they had, that time they went out dancing together? Robert was always more thoughtful of Debra's feelings, needs and wants than Ray was, he would've been more involved with the kids, probably a dozen different pros over Ray. But, alas.
  • 0

#4433

Maxbird

Maxbird

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 3:31 PM

Yes, an explanation of sorts to viewers would have been nice, like if Ray had been a really sickly child or something causing Marie to pamper him. And it isn't just because he gave her grandkids, it had apparently always been that way. Debra may very well have been happier with Robert. She wound up with 4 children. I can never get over Ray sulking and making everyone miserable on the trip to Italy, the weekend at the B&B with Debra, etc. It seemed like at first Ray and Debra were a cute young couple and united to keep Marie under control but later on they just seemed miserable - him with his moping and over the top laziness and lying and her with her bitter constant putdowns. The sweet moments because almost nonexistent.
  • 0

#4434

SunShine Gal

SunShine Gal

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 7:54 PM

Speaking of Robert, I'm seeing more of these reruns and always wonder why he is so maligned by his family?

I didn't understand that either. Robert's got an honorable job, he's tall and good looking, and has so many thoughtful qualities. I too wondered what if Debra had married Robert instead. Both of them would have been better off. Ray was such a whiney, selfish, awful husband. He rarely did anything thoughtful. When it looked like he was doing something just to be nice we later find out it was only for manipulation so he would benefit. Ray was awful.

IMO Marie loved Ray for his looks. She thought he was the cute one.
  • 0

#4435

CherryAmes

CherryAmes

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:01 PM

IMO Marie loved Ray for his looks. She thought he was the cute one.

Marie thought Robert was classically handsome. Especially in some of the earlier episodes the idea that Robert is the good looking brother is referenced severak times.

I think Ray was the favourite because he was the baby.
  • 0

#4436

Maxbird

Maxbird

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:43 PM

Yes, perhaps it was because Ray was "the baby". Here's a question for you guys that really know this show. I recently saw the episode where Marie actually appears to be staying out of things (it was a flashback) but finally is so offended by Robert's former wife she goes ape on the girl (with good reason). Are we to believe that there was a time when she wasn't so intrusive? And bit her tongue rather than attack?

Y'all are talking about Ray's famous selfishness, like how whenever he does anything nice it's only so he can gain something/guilt Debra into letting him have his way about golf or something. I'm thinking he came by that trait honestly. I love horrible Marie, however, it seems all her loving wonderful care of her family requires payment. She demands constant recognition and acknowledgment that her way is the only way. Many of her kind deeds are only to one up one of the DILs. I wonder if the writers knew the extent to which they ruined Raymond and Debra for we viewers? They just became the Bickering Bickersons after awhile, with very few tender moments. Even Frank and Marie had sweet moments at times.
  • 0

#4437

kemon

kemon

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 9:09 PM

The birth certificate issue made no sense whatsoever for the reason given about Robert being a police officer. It is one of those professions where one's background is thoroughly checked out, at least here in my state it is. I know back in WW2 men could get away with enlisting in the war and such, but as far as a guy like Robert's age and the era in which he lived, a birth certificate is required for many things such as getting married in a church, getting baptized, etc.

I watched the episode the other day about the luggage and I still wonder what the big deal was with that situation. I keep thinking Debra needed to take the clothes out of there so she could wash them, and Ray needed the suitcase anyways for that trip out of town. Being that the washer was downstairs, having the luggage downstairs would be easier for Debra while at the same time the luggage would be ready for Ray to use.
  • 0

#4438

Zemiar

Zemiar

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 12:05 AM

Yes, perhaps it was because Ray was "the baby". Here's a question for you guys that really know this show. I recently saw the episode where Marie actually appears to be staying out of things (it was a flashback) but finally is so offended by Robert's former wife she goes ape on the girl (with good reason). Are we to believe that there was a time when she wasn't so intrusive? And bit her tongue rather than attack?

Y'all are talking about Ray's famous selfishness, like how whenever he does anything nice it's only so he can gain something/guilt Debra into letting him have his way about golf or something. I'm thinking he came by that trait honestly. I love horrible Marie, however, it seems all her loving wonderful care of her family requires payment. She demands constant recognition and acknowledgment that her way is the only way. Many of her kind deeds are only to one up one of the DILs. I wonder if the writers knew the extent to which they ruined Raymond and Debra for we viewers? They just became the Bickering Bickersons after awhile, with very few tender moments. Even Frank and Marie had sweet moments at times.


According to Robert's ex-wife, Marie was "manipulative". It's quite possible that Marie was more stealthy then.

Ray likely ended up with such unpleasant qualities because he was the favorite.

Edited by Zemiar, Apr 23, 2012 @ 12:05 AM.

  • 0

#4439

CherryAmes

CherryAmes

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 11:12 AM

I watched the episode the other day about the luggage and I still wonder what the big deal was with that situation.

It wasn't the suitcase itself that was the issue it was the principle of the thing. I'm sure that episode struck a chord with a lot of people. It was actually based on a real incident involving one of the writers (Tucker Cawley I think). If it's not a suitcase it's a big fork and spoon :).

Ray likely ended up with such unpleasant qualities because he was the favorite.


Just as Robert had some less than pleasant qualities because he grew up feeling second best. Neither brother as far as I'm concerned is a clear winner in the good guy department!

Edited by CherryAmes, Apr 23, 2012 @ 11:13 AM.

  • 0

#4440

kemon

kemon

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 3:06 PM

It wasn't the suitcase itself that was the issue it was the principle of the thing.

That's what I don't get. Because Ray didn't lug the suitcase up the stairs? It would be more of a hassle to have to lug the dirty laundry back down the stairs. Ray was going out of town anyways and would need the suitcase to pack his clothes so, eventually he would need to grab that suitcase and carry it upstairs. If Ray had returned from that business trip and then left the suitcase on the steps, then I would see an issue there because it implies that Debra should put it away when Ray was too lazy to do it.
  • 0