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#25381

Jen1n

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 9:39 AM

Runner, I'm so sorry about your kitty. Sending virtual hugs too. I had to put my beautiful, loving cat down Oct. '10 and I still miss her.

On to the show..

I caught Andrea's last episode the other day on SoapNet and no matter how many times I've seen it, it makes me tear up.


This always makes me tear up too. Andrea got the best farewell out of everyone. Brenda just disappears, Dylan drives off on his motorcycle with only Brandon's eyebrows looking on, and Brandon takes off with some David radio-monologue in the background. Val's was ok, thought her talk with David was sweet. But really, Andrea's was the best.

Jennie was in that show with Amanda Bynes, which I didn't watch during it's original run but I've caught in syndication, and I found it to be pretty cute.


I started watching this show in syndication while laid off from work, and I thought it was cute too. Jennie did comedy really well, and it was nice to see her in a different type of role. I especially liked the last 2 seasons, thought Jennie was beautiful with her long wavy hair. (not to mention Vince..mmmmm..loved him!)
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#25382

Maxbird

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 10:25 AM

That little comedy was a hoot after years of judgy, angsty Kelly and she was sooo cute. The episodes where Dylan and Brandon were guests were wonderful - Poor Brandon was a needy sap and Dylan was a bad boy kind of. One even had a flashback to the school dance and Jenny was wearing a replica of the famed black and white dress she and Brenda both bought. It's on YouTube - I think I plugged in Luke Perry on What I Like About You.

BTW, sorry, I posted an entry full of typos last night and couldn't get it back to fix. Where the heck is the edit post thingie???
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#25383

Jen1n

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 10:55 AM

Maxbird, my edit post button thingy shows up on the very bottom right corner of my posts, under the number thing that I'm not sure we figured out yet.

Edited by Jen1n, Apr 5, 2012 @ 10:56 AM.

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#25384

Runningwild

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 12:11 PM

Runner, I am so sorry to hear about Mr. Nibbles. I've gone through that with a couple of mine and it's not easy. The one I have now, Rowdy, is just an absolute joy. He's a sweetheart. And big- 11.6 lbs. and he won't turn 1 until May 1st. Sending you hugs!
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#25385

auntmimi96

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 1:22 PM

Runner, I am so sorry to hear about your beloved furball. Sending virtual hugs and hopefully more 90210 your way.

FWIW, I have AT&T U-verse and they do not appear to be pulling the plug on SoapNet anytime soon. I've also seen ads on SN for them picking up Veronica Mars, which starts airing next weekend (the 15th) which seems silly if the network is going to disappear. I've set that to start recording since I've heard it is excellent.

I just can't get into S6-S7 as much as previous seasons. This is pretty much why:

But generally, it felt to me as if they really tried to bring in a couple of new people for the gang to date in S5-7, and not just for two episodes, to make the thing a bit more believable. Susan, Tracy, Colin, Ray, Joe, and Mark, all stuck around way longer than they were interesting, I thought.


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#25386

Bastet Esq

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 1:39 PM

As one who has had to make the same decision and is currently dealing with a Mystery Diagnosis-type cat, I empathize, Runner, and send my condolences.

under the number thing that I'm not sure we figured out yet.


Those are another symptom of Facebook culture infecting the world - "reputation" points. It means one or more person has clicked on the little plus sign to give the post "I like this" points. TWoP disabled the negative points option that came with the Invision software upgrade, but has left the positive for now.

I always saw Kelly and Dylan as two people who pretty randomly decided they were soul mates one day (even though they never seemed to actually want a life together) and then let a romantic idea they came up with when they were kids ruin all their other relationships. More immature and dumb than romantic.


From the part of Kelly and Dylan's relationship I saw, this seems a spot-on description. I find "soul mates" a foolish concept, but setting that aside, its application under the circumstances presented simply does not compute for me.

Edited by Bastet Esq, Apr 5, 2012 @ 1:47 PM.

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#25387

Maxbird

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 3:30 PM

Oh, thanks on the number (facebook era) thing. I do recall trying to wade thru the software update info seeing some discussion about the up and down thing and that the down thing could cause bad feelings, etc. and who needs that? This is a really good place to avoid that kind of nonsense. Plus I'd wear out the up one - I enjoy all the posts here, finding out what everybody thinks, especially if it conflicts with what I think.

I didn't actually think Ray stuck around too long since things actually kept happening with him and said things kept relating to Donna. At least he didn't pop in and date everybody. I also found it interesting that even before he proved to be an ass, nobody liked him. Truth be told, I was never impressed but I was shocked that (again, before we realized he was a controlling abuser)when he went to pick up Donna, both Clare and Kelly were absolutely rude and vile to him. I bought it with Clare because she's a sourpuss know it all but Kelly usually displayed a modicum of manners unless she had reason, or thought she had reason, to dislike a person.

Interesting on the edit button - I guess it takes a few minutes to appear, because I moused over every single icon last night looking for it. I guess I need to go out in the street and find some 8 year old little kid to show me how to use a computer.
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#25388

Marie Claudine

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 4:50 PM

Beginning with 90210's sixth season, Walters was made a series regular, but after 13 episodes he asked to be released from his contract. So initially he was supposed to stick around much longer.

That's really interesting - especially given Ray's history. He pushed Donna against the wall and down those stairs in S5. If they had kept him around, would he just haven been forgiven for that? That would have been quite outrageous to me, I must say. And if he hadn't been forgiven, what could they have done with him after that? After all, like Maxbird pointed out, the gang didn't really like him and he had no ties with them.

Kelly and Dylan did not get together much earlier in season 10 because nobody thought that the show was going to be cancelled that suddenly.

Again, interesting - thanks for all this background information! This, too, is a surprise to me. I read that the producers expected the show might get cancelled after S7 and after S8, but they didn't see it coming in S10? I mean, the way they limped toward the finishing line there, I'd have bet on a cancellation! I mean, I am no producer and speaking in retrospect, but to me, S10 looks like a show waiting to go off the air. Then again, so did One Tree Hill's S8, and they still did one more season after that.
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#25389

callmebetty

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 4:58 PM

That's really interesting - especially given Ray's history. He pushed Donna against the wall and down those stairs in S5. If they had kept him around, would he just haven been forgiven for that? That would have been quite outrageous to me, I must say. And if he hadn't been forgiven, what could they have done with him after that? After all, like Maxbird pointed out, the gang didn't really like him and he had no ties with them.


But he did keep popping up. Didn't Donna and David help he out with his band making a video or something in a later season.
I think that was what was bothering me about the character when I asked the question. I felt like he should have been gone after the trial and he admitted he hurt Donna. But I felt like he kept popping up in later seasons for like one or two episodes. Has any other recurring character, besides Emily Valentine or Muntz, done that?
Maybe I'm just making things up in my head and he wasn't there as much as I thought, I couldn't stand the character so that could be clouding my memory.
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#25390

desertflower

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 7:06 PM

I just watched the season 6 opener today, and apparently Ray and Donna had a fantastic summer after the stairs incident. Ray worked on Dr. Martin's boat and all was great. Then I can't remember why they went off the rails again; I know she started seeing Joe and him and Ray got into it, hence the trial. But as far as his appearances later, I think that was an attempt to help redeem his character because the powers that be liked Jamie Walters and wanted to soften his image for the audience. So he came back happily engaged and cured of his anger issues.
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#25391

scarlett45

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 8:08 PM

They went off the rails again because Donna realized Ray had some real issues and needed help. She didnt want to stay in an abusive relationship any more.

Her exact words were "do you know what that(their great summer) is called in the book(on domestic violence)? The honeymoon period. I don't wanna be around when the honeymoon is over.".
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#25392

Maxbird

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 8:39 PM

I seem to recall reading (on here) where poor Ray/Jamie was hated by the tween public for mistreating Donna and claimed his career was suffering or something? So perhaps if Spelling, et al, liked him they brought him back that last time with the fiance for his image, as someone said above. Even when very young I was always amazed that large groups of people can apparently detest an actor for the role he/she plays.

Thanks for the inside info on the show being canceled rather suddenly. That makes the rushed exit of DoorMatt and the K/D seeming reconciliation make sense. Unlike today's dramas/soaps (shame on you Nu0210) this show generally let important things play out over time. Hookups notwithstanding the "epic romances" were, for the most part, developed over time even if off-screen (Kelly and Colin Ugh). I mean, even in the later not so great seasons they did that well, such as Steve and Janet taking forever to get together which made us really root for them.

I stand corrected on Val and Gina. I didn't remember that Gina was actually there when Val left - I thought she came on the scene later as a sad Val wannabe. At least it was fun to love to hate Val. I just seethed with actual hatred for Gina.
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#25393

scarlett45

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 8:48 PM

I just saw an ad for "Shannon Says", did she do something to her FACE?! She looks different. Not just older, but like she DID something.
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#25394

4Sibes

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 10:07 PM

I have never seen the talent in Colin's artwork. I've always disliked it.
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#25395

Marie Claudine

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 4:15 AM

4Sibes, I have always wondered who the person was that actually did Colin's artwork. Like you, I don't see the talent; to me, his work looks rather boring and generic, and not very finely done on top of that. There were tons of artists doing very similar stuff out there in the 80s and 90s - some better, some like Colin. I wonder, did the producers try to support a local artist by showing his work on the show? Or did they just buy generic prints here and there and tried to pawn them off on their teen audience as the new and exciting NY artwork by the wonder that is Colin Robbins?

I would have bought the Colin storyline more if he had been an actual struggling artist who's only supported by middle-aged cougars; but the quality of his paintings just made the "the next big thing and insta-assistant professor at CU" about as probable as Jesse's invitation to "teach law" at Yale with heaps of benefits but without a PhD or the intention to get one.
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#25396

Spencer84

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 4:31 AM

I read that the producers expected the show might get cancelled after S7 and after S8, but they didn't see it coming in S10?

I got that from an interview piece in Entertainment Weekly:

"Aaron Spelling: It wasn't until the 8th year that I wondered if the show would be picked up, and if the cast would come back. We went through the same thing in the 9th and 10th years. We had only two more episodes to shoot this season when I got a call from Sandy Grushow asking would I please do a two-hour closer.
Sandy Grushow: A lot of the cast members were ready to move on. And obviously the ratings had finally begun to slip to levels that made the costs seem excessive.
Tori Spelling: Before the cancellation, Brian and I said we were leaving.
Jennie Garth: I had already decided I wasn't coming back. But they were like, please, one more year. I decided to be a team player ó but then the show wasn't coming back."
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#25397

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 9:38 AM

The introduction of Susan Keats always irritates me. I think the writers had watched old movie meet-cute scenes to be inspired. But Jason Priestly isn't Spencer Tracy & Emma Caulfield isn't Katharine Hepburn.
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#25398

scarlett45

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 3:46 PM

Ah Susan Keats and her holier than thou "Pornography is PERVERTED!!" Why did they have to make Susan such a shrew? Andrea was smart, determined, principled but she was a nice person. Why are all the "smart" women on this show nasty?

I did love Kelly's internal monologue in this episode where she admits that she slept with her boyfriend's best friend AND her best friend's boyfriend. She is no saint. IMO Donna was the only one who had any room to judge anyone. Not because of her virginity but because (at this point in the series) she genuinely tried to do right by people and thought about how her actions would affect others.
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#25399

Maxbird

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 9:11 PM

Wasn't the horrible Susan Keats introduced in a remake of Aaaandrea? Didn't Brandon go to her office to apply for a job on the college paper and she dissed him like Andrea did at first? What was slightly annoying with Andrea, especially once we got to know her, was nails on a blackboard with Susan.

Y'all are right about the disservice to smart girls. Other than Andrea, who was very sweet and nice, Susan and Clare (who was presented as a freaking genius) were self-important snide bitches in every way. Heh, maybe that's why Mr. Spelling had his daughter play sweet and virtuous and learning disabled.

The above comments made me think a little about Donna being the only "important" girl who was in a position to judge anyone. I don't think Brenda ever did anything rotten to the girls, not counting Kelly, as she was very upfront about trying to get Dylan back when she wanted to. I couldn't stand Clare but I don't think she did anything backstabby either. I'm counting her since she was on for a long time.

One of the reasons I will love Donna forever is that even though she was virginal by choice and felt strongly about it, she was never judgmental. I'm talking about teenage Donna. She never flouted her decision or tried to force her beliefs on anyone else. She was totally on board with Brenda's big night with Dylan and sympathetic and supportive during the pregnancy scare, rather than tsk tsk, I warned you sex is baaaaad! She only inserted her opinion when somebody was hurting somebody and rarely stuck her nose into other people's business.
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#25400

fuzzybear

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 10:49 PM

Wasn't the horrible Susan Keats introduced in a remake of Aaaandrea?


That was the feeling I got. My theory was the writers were originally planning for Brandon and Andrea to become a couple and have a lot of Katherine Hepburn/Spencer Tracy type debates and conflicts and then they just scraped it. Probably because they didn’t feel the JP and GC had enough chemistry or the right type of chemistry or maybe it was supposed to be a slow burn type of thing and then by the time they were originally planning to get them together they realized GC just didn’t quite work as a romantic lead in a teen drama (I love her, but no she did not). So Susan was possibly a reboot of a lot of story lines they had lying around and never got to use.

Hey guys, fun speculative game because I cannot get enough of the Brandon/Kelly vs. Dylan/Kelly debate (I promise to let it go and get a life at some point, but no time soon). I’m an admitted Brandon/Kelly shipper, not because I especially loved either character (I found them both smug and self-righteous to an annoying degree), but because I could easily picture their life together after 90210. In my mind the ultimate 90210 spin-off would have Brandon and Kelly getting back together and getting married or engaged and moving to DC so Brandon could pursue a political career. He would be working as the Chief of Staff to a congressman or something and Kelly would get a job as a councilor or in social services in DC. Every week Kelly could find some cause to champion that would put Brandon in an awkward position politically (stuff like medical marijuana or gay rights or something) and Kelly would present the personal, human side of the issue and Brandon would present the political side of the issue. I would give the show a slightly more serious tone (not too serious, but a little more grown up like Lipstick Jungle or The American Embassy or something). Every episode could have an argument like this;
K: Brandon how can you worry about politics; this is someone’s life!
B: Kelly in the real world I have to make compromises to get anything done!
And then Brandon comes through and does the right thing and Kelly learns that lots of issues are more complicated then she thought. Good cheesy drama fun ensues.

My question is to the Kelly/Dylan shippers; if you were going to write the spin-off of their lives what would it be? What would they be doing? Where would they be living? What would the central conflicts be?

I’ll also open this up to other shippers; what 90210 spin-off did you want? And can we just ignore the 90210 reboot? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; I do not consider it cannon!

*Edited because Lipstick Jungle is a better example of the tone I envision.

Edited by fuzzybear, Apr 6, 2012 @ 10:52 PM.

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#25401

jrs

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 11:32 PM

One of my favorite lines on 90210: "Or do you only hit me when we're outta town?" (Right up there too is, "Steve, you'd better pray [the clue] is not a book.") I'd love to know if the writers room was working on the backstory and was like, "hey, why is he only abusive outside of BH...?"
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#25402

Bastet Esq

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 1:11 AM

My theory was the writers were originally planning for Brandon and Andrea to become a couple and have a lot of Katherine Hepburn/Spencer Tracy type debates and conflicts and then they just scraped it.


Having an obsessive love for their films, I have to channel Lloyd Bentsen here and say Brandon and Andrea are no Tracy/Hepburn combination; I liked Brandon best when interacting with Andrea and consistently enjoyed their chemistry, but they couldn't recreate the dynamic of Woman of the Year or Adam's Rib if their lives depended on it. It does sound, however, as if Susan was an attempt to run with the dynamic they never capitalized on with Brandon and Andrea. Brandon was such a self-righteous prig he needed an Andrea type to check his ego, so it's a shame the writers were seemingly incapable of writing intelligent, independent female characters in a positive light.
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#25403

Mommyof2Cuties

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 9:55 AM

Thanks for the info, Spencer84. :) I've always wondered when they got the news about being canceled. Judging on what aired during the episodes leading up to the last two episodes and the season finale, I'm guessing Donna and David were headed for a reunion either way, although not marriage. Maybe David would have changed his mind about taking the NY job, and Donna would have gone with him since Tori and BAG were both planning on leaving the show.

With Kelly and Dylan, I'm sure they would have dragged their story out another year since Jennie was planning on coming back. Kelly didn't realize that she wanted to be with Dylan until the last two episodes before the finale. In the episode before those, she told Dylan it was too late for him to choose again. Something tells me we would have been subjected to Kelly marrying Matt and then realizing that she wanted Dylan instead, possibly with some adultery thrown in. I'd rather have a rushed reunion than that! :/

It does make me wonder what they had planned for the original finale, though. Something tells me Steve and Janet were probably headed for bigtime marriage troubles. :(

No fan of Susan, and I do think her purpose was to be a new version of Andrea. I just saw the convent episode, and even when Susan is trying to tell Brandon why she can't come over to his house, she has such an attitude. Just say I have plans at my aunt's house. Big freaking deal! She makes such a production about it. Grr! She lacked the compassion of Andrea and the weird sense of humor.

I thought Clare was supposed to be an edgier, sexier version of Brenda. And again I think they failed because Clare lacked compassion. Brenda was bratty, but she was loyal and had empathy. She knew her own mind, but she also had an open mind. Clare was very much one to think it was her way, or no way.

In our list of successful 90210ers, we can add Jennie and Shannen for being on nu-90210, disaster it was aside. And Vanessa Marcil for Vegas. And I know TAT was on Two Guys and a Girl, but I forget how long of a role it was. I did enjoy her on it, though, which was unusual for me having not liked Kelly Klapkowski or Valerie Malone. :) Wasn't she also on White Collar or something?

fuzzybear, your post reminds me of something that I just saw that explains why I don't like Kelly and Brandon together. During his presidential party, when she's cutting the cake and says she's the little woman behind the man. Cringe. Joke or not, that is NOT who I want Kelly Taylor to be. And then when that smart kid Warren is around and she keeps saying stuff like he seems perfectly nice or he's just a little boy, she sounds just like Cindy to me. And while I love Cindy, Kelly is not supposed to be a mini-Cindy Walsh in my eyes. I think that's one of the main reasons I can't be a K/B shipper even though I admit they're a reasonable pairing for the show and Kelly's my favorite female character. I don't like who Kelly is when she's with Brandon. I could have lived with them getting married in Season 8 if the show had ended then, but I wouldn't have enjoyed it. It's no coincidence to me that when Brandon left and Dylan came back, Kelly returned to her old ways. She became colorful again. She was still judgmental, but self-aware about it. She made mistakes and admitted to them. She handled her confusion in a nonperfect manner. She spent tons of time with her friends and spoke honestly about her feelings with them. Despite her strange fondness for Matt (runner up for worst boyfriend to 'Ol One T Ray), it was like Kelly came back to life. At least for me! ;)

As for my ultimate Kelly/Dylan spin-off, I'd just like to see them happy for a few episodes. After all Kelly's planned but failed weddings, I would have liked them to get married on the beach in Paradise Cove with their friends, family, and Nat present only. I'd like to see Donna and Kelly both sad about leaving the beach apartment to live with their husbands and coming to terms with the next stage of their lives. I would have liked to see Dylan find what he wanted to do with his degree, maybe start his own charity while still helping with the community center. Hopefully something important to him like providing books to kids, offering help to kids and teens who lost their parents, or getting kids into surfing. I would have liked to see Kelly do something with psychology. I like nu-90210's idea of her becoming a guidance counselor, giving her a chance to help kids in her position in high school. Or I would have liked to see her become a social worker and how she balanced the good she did with the horrors she saw. Eventually, I would like to see them have a baby (possibly an effort due to her endometriosis) and how they would try hard to parent better than they were parented. And Kelly trying to make one last-ditch effort with her dad now that he has a grandchild, and Iris coming around more often for the same reason and Dylan learning to not resent her. For me, my favorite scenes and episodes were often the ones where the gang was just hanging out so I'd be happy with that, with only a few issues cropping up from time to time. I'd also have loved it if the regulars who left popped up on the spin-off and added a different dynamic to the show for a few episodes.

Love "Or do you only hit me when we're outta town?" The smackdown is all the better because Donna is the one who delivered it! :) I also love the Brandon-related smackdowns, "Did you just say jack me up? Someone's been reading their Spike Lee handbook." And "Brandon? Brandon of Beverly Hills? You don't know squat." Hee hee. And of course Andrea's irrisistable comment. Poor Brandon, but I liked it better when he got called out from time to time pre-college. He wasn't as fun for me when he was presented as Mr. Perfect. I do like when he gave one to Susan about Steve being his best friend. :) I also love Dylan's smackdown to Kelly when she's giving him grief about leaving the country with Gina WHILE she's planning on marrying Matt, and he says "Or could it be that my leaving narrows your options?" Anyone else have some favorites?
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#25404

scarlett45

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 1:26 PM

Mommyof2Cuties- I LOVED Donna's smack down of Ray. Loved!!! I wasn't too pleased that it was his infidelity that got her to pull the plug, versus his ABUSE but I'm glad she put her foot down.


Ah the weekend episodes, this weekend Steve's adoption. Again, this story feels very dated to me, I guess not the story but the way they handled Steve's search. It would've been more realistic for Samantha to hire a private detective to try to find Karen Brown and/or her family. The over dramatic angst of "will Steve come back?!!", no he's just going to be a nomad and travel around the southwest till the end of his days. I have to say though, Ian's acting in this storyline is some of his best.
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#25405

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 1:57 PM

Hee! I never thought about Steve wandering the southwest (in a bus) for the rest of his life but yah? What was that about, the wondering if he'd come back. Even if he had found his birth mother and she was wonderful I doubt he'd have just abandoned his family, friends, school, and remained out there. Always seemed to me as if his search would have been more efficient if he had DRIVEN HIS CAR.

Interesting thought on Susan being the new Brenda; however, she had none of Brenda's soft heart and introspection. Rash as Brenda was, she was kind and ethical, and never preachy and morally superior except for a few times she went off on a well intentioned tangent (animal rights).

I'm in S-5 now which I mostly like but a lot of it is pretty nonsensical. I've never figured out what Val saw in Ray that almost made her go bunny boiler on him. He just wasn't all that. I also have no clue at all why Jonesie gave her a huge pile of money. Dylan was expected to pay J's expenses, one of which would have been the dupe pretty lady. He owed her nothing at all. Dylan was very cold about it, however, I agree with him that she didn't try to make a deal beforehand to be paid. To come back, hop in bed with him and demand money after she had actually begged to go was ridiculous. I also don't get how a savvy young woman like Val could blow all that money that fast. Granted, the club wasn't doing well which wasn't her fault. Living like a queen and buying a ton of designer clothes was her fault and then she acted stunned when the money ran out so quickly.

I have many favorite lines from the series and two of my favorite actually involve Brandon.

"Right church, wrong pew, my friend."
"You are the best Steve that you know how to be".
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#25406

mooyoo

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 4:36 PM

The crazy Emily episode was on this afternoon, and much as I like that one, several things always bug me about it - one is how critical everyone seems to be of Brandon after he yells at Emily. She called his house dozens of times, wore his favorite shirt without asking him, spread lies about the two of them, and wouldn't leave him alone even after he (very calmly) asked her to give him some space. He was totally right, he'd been much more nice and patient with her than he should've been considering she drugged him, and she wouldn't take a hint. And then, of course, Cindy is all "Brandon!" at him when he finally looses his cool.

The other thing I don't get is why it took the Walshes so damn long to call Emily's parents. After creepy answering machine message number 15 I would've been driving over to her house, no matter what she said about her folks being out of town.

So Susan was possibly a reboot of a lot of story lines they had lying around and never got to use.

I think this makes complete sense - Brandon and Susan started off nearly identical to Brandon and Andrea, right down to the "cocky new reporter butts heads with tough female editor!" trope that's so heavy in their first few episodes. I never hated Susan and actually thought she seemed to make the most sense out of Brandon's love interests (despite how much I like Brandon/Kelly), but she really did seem like a poor imitation of Andrea, especially in the beginning, which bugs me.

I thought Clare was supposed to be an edgier, sexier version of Brenda.

Huh, I never really got that sense. I always thought Val was supposed to be the "edgier, sexier" version of Brenda. Claire always just seemed like a totally superfluous character (so much that, much as other characters were rarely mentioned after their departures, Claire was really never mentioned again after she left the show). One thing I did love about Claire, though, was her cynicism. It got annoying, especially when she was with Steve and she never seemed happy, but at times it was sorely needed around characters like Perfect Donna and Saint Kelly. Claire's wtf? look when she says "make your bed, now you gotta sleep in it" and Ginger replies with her hammy-sexy "just don't sleep in it alone" in the Season 6 premier is priceless, as is her "pass the damn potatoes!" inner monologue in the convent episode.
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#25407

Mommyof2Cuties

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 6:51 PM

It is kinda funny how Steve leaves his car, and they still think he's basically running away from home. I have to admit that I still tear up when he gives the speech about finding his "real" mom at the end, though.

I wasn't too pleased that it was his infidelity that got her to pull the plug, versus his ABUSE but I'm glad she put her foot down.

Yeah, that was a missed opportunity. I think the show did a good job developing the abuse story and showing how it can happen, but failed with the message they were trying to send. When Donna is opening up to Kelly about how Ray is mean to her, I really wish they would have had Kelly be more concerned. It seems like no one but Val thought what he was doing was wrong, and Val wasn't exactly the moral voice of the show. Too many teens think it's acceptable to let their boyfriends beat on them already. I hate when that view gets reinforced in the media (cough*Rihanna*cough).

I've never figured out what Val saw in Ray that almost made her go bunny boiler on him. He just wasn't all that.

No, he sure wasn't! ;) But there is a scene of him performing where Val loks starstruck, so maybe that was it. You know what doesn't make sense to me about Val? She's all hung up on Ray and then all of a sudden, she's eyeing Brandon at his presidential party. She just moved on to one girl's man from the other. It would be different if she actually had feelings for them, but I don't think she did. I think it was just part of her manipulative personality.

Huh, I never really got that sense. I always thought Val was supposed to be the "edgier, sexier" version of Brenda. Claire always just seemed like a totally superfluous character (so much that, much as other characters were rarely mentioned after their departures, Claire was really never mentioned again after she left the show).


I think that TAT was a replacement for Shannen, but I don't see Val's character as anything like Brenda's. Val was a bad girl. Brenda wasn't a bad girl at all to me. She could be a witch, but she lashed out from hurt not devious schemes. I think Clare was closer to what Brenda was as far as being an achiever, loyal to her family, wanting to be part of a group, and being smart. I just think they took it a little farther by having Clare be more confident, blunt, worldly, and self-centered than Brenda was. Without Brenda's heart, I think Clare didn't resemble her very much in the end, but I do think that's where they were heading with her characterization. Other than the dark hair and living at the Walshes, I have a hard time seeing similarities between Brenda and Val.

Speaking of replacements, I saw a commercial for Shannen's show and she says to her fiance, "If they could replace me on 90210, I'm sure they could find someone to replace you." Good to see her giving the show a shoutout! :)
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#25408

mooyoo

mooyoo

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 7:14 PM

I never thought Brenda was a bad girl either, but I always got the feeling that the show did (I even remember a promo on some other channel that was running reruns of the show years ago touting Brenda as "the bad girl of Beverly Hills") - she's the troublemaker, she's the one who runs off to Mexico with her boyfriend, she's the one who defies her parents (more so than any of the others), she's the one who flits from guy to guy (even if ultimately she really just wants Dylan). I see Val as a ramped up version of that - she's more defiant, more aggressive in going after guys and going from guy to guy, more scheming, more self involved, all of which were traits that Brenda had in smaller proportions. Claire, to my eyes, had nothing in common with Brenda personality wise. She was an achiever and loyal to her family and wanted to be part of the group, yeah, but all of the characters (save Steve and being an achiever) were like that to a certain degree.

I think the show did a good job developing the abuse story and showing how it can happen, but failed with the message they were trying to send.

I'm not even sure what message they were ultimately trying to send. Ray's a jerk and abusive in Season 5, and that was done pretty well, but then we cut to the beginning of Season 6 and everything's great and they're oh so in love and Ray is everyone's pal and part of the group. It almost seemed like they forgot what they'd done with him in Season 5 until the convent episode when we were suddenly reminded that he cheated on and abused Donna.
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#25409

Saz

Saz

    Channel Surfer

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 4:39 AM

Someone mentioned the ep with the tour guide girl who tried to scam everyone...man, was that a terrible plot. And let's just throw Burt Reynolds into the mix to make it even more random and weird.


Soooo boring. I don't always mind filler episodes, especially if they are fun and funny and a break from angst or real fast moving plots, like silly holiday eps and such but where in the hell did that thing come from?


Sorry to bring up discussion from a couple of pages back, but I just watched this episode this week, and so I have to comment! To me, it seemed to be put together quickly and not that well thought out, like how the characters end up in the situation they are in. Dylan is going to study for his SATs for one.day. and he goes to the Peach Pit to study?! I get that the "Ginger" story-arc in the episode was to develop the friendship between Dylan and Steve, and I can see Steve falling for the charms of a pretty lady, but Dylan? I always thought he was too cynical for that, and with his Dad a con artist I thought he would have seen right through her. Did he really think Brandon would lend "Ginger" his car? At least he took the keys off her and drove to her "bosses office", cause Steve seemed like he'd let her meet them there. Surely when he saw the empty site he'd have realised her game and walked away? I don't see him dressing up and becoming an extra in that commercial either (which actually was kinda funny lol). For Brandon or Brenda yeah, if he was literally forced, but he wasn't that good friends with Steve to go along with it imo, and especially not for some woman he just met. And then at the police station she tells him she got into serious trouble back home and as soon as they leave he doesn't bother asking her again. And did the cops not run her name through the system and see it was fake, and charge her with giving false details to a police officer?! Dylan's behaviour the whole episode just seemed out of character to me, and Brandon was a lot more gullible in that episode than I expected him to be too. Not to mention Kelly getting mugged and been sad for five whole minutes before deciding she's gonna have fun regardless, and Andrea been scared to ride a rollercoaster all day. Ok, sorry for the rant but I really like S3 but to me, that episode let it down.

The saddest thing (to me) about Dylan is he regressed. When we first met him when he was mad, bad, and dangerous, it became quickly evident he was actually a lonely kid longing for family and connections. He maintained some of the James Dean but was so happy to be part of the Walsh clan, have Brandon for a bestie, make more of an effort in school, yet he still surfed and did his own things. Even though he was taken aback at times by having to follow the rules he liked having somebody care enough to worry about him. Later, he was bitterly resentful when anyone questioned him or tried to give him advice and treated them badly enough to make them leave him, which completed the circle. I suppose that's why he grabbed onto the silly soulmate cluster. He had lost his dad, his mother was a flake, Brenda left him .. He seemed to forget that whenever he was with Kelly they fought and he stormed off, and both of them were totally miserable. I adored high school Dylan for the most part. Later on I just found him to be an angry waste of space who never learned from his past mistakes. And yes, I know he was ultimately redeemed but by that time the bloom was off the rose for me. I wouldn't have minded him going to London and getting together with Brenda. The implication that he and Kelly would be together makes my head hurt, wondering how fast she'll cheat and he'll be raving and ranting about everything. It never failed. Frankly, I almost feel like if he had taken up with divorcing Andrea he may have been better off. Except on rare occasions, she just wasn't a drama queen and had enough going on herself that she wouldn't have reacted to his moods and funks maybe.


You've just summed up my feelings on Dylan through out the series too, so thank you! Dylan and Kelly were my favourite characters at the beginning of the series as I have always felt they have the most interesting backstory and there was a lot more to them than they showed on the surface. They intrigued me. No matter how bad they got I stayed loyal lol, but to look back at how they were in the first few seasons makes me sad to think how they ended up.

As for my ultimate Kelly/Dylan spin-off, I'd just like to see them happy for a few episodes. After all Kelly's planned but failed weddings, I would have liked them to get married on the beach in Paradise Cove with their friends, family, and Nat present only. I'd like to see Donna and Kelly both sad about leaving the beach apartment to live with their husbands and coming to terms with the next stage of their lives. I would have liked to see Dylan find what he wanted to do with his degree, maybe start his own charity while still helping with the community center. Hopefully something important to him like providing books to kids, offering help to kids and teens who lost their parents, or getting kids into surfing. I would have liked to see Kelly do something with psychology. I like nu-90210's idea of her becoming a guidance counselor, giving her a chance to help kids in her position in high school. Or I would have liked to see her become a social worker and how she balanced the good she did with the horrors she saw. Eventually, I would like to see them have a baby (possibly an effort due to her endometriosis) and how they would try hard to parent better than they were parented. And Kelly trying to make one last-ditch effort with her dad now that he has a grandchild, and Iris coming around more often for the same reason and Dylan learning to not resent her. For me, my favorite scenes and episodes were often the ones where the gang was just hanging out so I'd be happy with that, with only a few issues cropping up from time to time. I'd also have loved it if the regulars who left popped up on the spin-off and added a different dynamic to the show for a few episodes.


Yes! I agree with this. A totally out there idea, but I wish we could have had Dylan be some kind of parent figure to Erica. I know at the time he was too out of it on drugs and alcohol, but he really cared for her yet just left her to the same fate he had in respect to parenting. Wasn't it a little weird Iris raising her when she couldn't have known her that well, and she hadn't done any job really in raising Dylan?

Can anyone tell me why they brought Erica back when Dylan was out of the series? Surely his reaction to her prostitution would have been the strongest? It just seemed like they needed somebody as a poster child for how good girls go bad and randomly thought of her, when the most important connection linking her character with the show was missing. Did Dylan ever find out what she was up to? I can't remember. Brenda provided some history on Erica, with her living with Iris, but wouldn't her and Dylan be apart again by then so how would she know?
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#25410

borninnj

borninnj

    Video Archivist

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 9:59 AM

Iíll also open this up to other shippers; what 90210 spin-off did you want? And can we just ignore the 90210 reboot? Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again; I do not consider it cannon!


Hear, hear, fuzzybear. Jackie Taylor lives! I'd love a spin-off on Brenda and how fab her life was after she left Beverly Hills.
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