317 replies to this topic

[lutile]

I really liked this ep. I don't think Nick is being a jerk, granted he was pretty testy with Shannon, but I thought it was because he did not want to face even the possiblity of Burton's death.

As for Lulu, I am in agreement that she is not showing much excitement about the baby, or starting a new life with Nick. She said that she 'did not want to have an abortion', not 'I want to have your baby'. They are very different to me. I am not sure why, I realize she is pretty troubled, but I also question whether or not she is actually in Love with Nick.

The next two episodes look really interesting and will hopefully explain a few things.

[tk2003]

Hey, an episode I liked, yay! I'd about sworn off watching it again.

The Nick-Burton scenes were great, as they usually are; this time they weren't overshadowed by other stuff too. And I was glad to even see a bit of Jake.
Nick's torturous aftermath after his spiral of sex'n drink seemed very realistic. DH can't do the male-female relationship well but he handles the other stuff superbly. I'm glad this ep reminded me of that.

[tk2003]

Did anyone ever figure out why Nick even liked Lulu?

And -- I've never got the impression she really cared about him much;sheesh, still the queen-of-disconnect right up through tonight's ep.

[SimoneS]

Anyone notice that there is absolutely no chemistry between Nick and Lulu tonight. These should have been hard wrenching poignant scenes, but zip, nada. They need to free Nick from the Lulu relationship because it just isn't working. If only because Nick is so remote from everyone, except the rare moments that he has with Burton and of course, their scenes were outstanding.

[Chenin]

I actually like the Nick/Lulu relationship. Well I could if I felt Nick was capable of a one. I've found myself really disliking him the last few weeks as he's become even more closed off(if that's possible). So Lulu said no to getting married. They're still pretty early on, and she just got divorced. Of course she's not ready yet. Up until his confession tonight I felt no sympathy for him. I can understand his fear of abandonment, and I can see that he's trying to protect himself by chasing Lulu away before she just leaves. Still, like Lulu, I don't think sleeping with the skank was the best way to go. I thought both SB & WM were stellar during Nick's confession. My heart broke for both of them. As always the Burton/Nick scenes rocked.

[isoup]

So Lulu said no to getting married. They're still pretty early on, and she just got divorced.

I think she was right to say no to his proposal, but she was so nasty about it - no indication that she was sensitive to his feelings as she rejected him. It's what I'd call a matter of common decency, let alone the fact that these two people are allegedly (ahem, cough, splutter) in love.

Did anyone ever figure out why Nick even liked Lulu?

It's the dimple. It's gotta be the dimple.

[LizaJane]

Did anyone ever figure out why Nick even liked Lulu?

It's the dimple. It's gotta be the dimple.

I thought she sprayed herself with deer urine. The secret magic properties of deer urine! It is set in western PA, after all.

[lutile]

Well I could if I felt Nick was capable of a one. I've found myself really disliking him the last few weeks as he's become even more closed off(if that's possible). So Lulu said no to getting married. They're still pretty early on, and she just got divorced. Of course she's not ready yet. Up until his confession tonight I felt no sympathy for him.

I think Nick loves Lulu, and is realizing that she may not feel the same way about him. He has reached out to her several times, and has had his hand slapped for his effort. My problem is not that she turned his proposal down, I understood that, but she did it with no repsect at all for his feelings. He has had my sympathy all along, right now Lulu does too. I do not think after all the time invested, this relatioship is going away, but I think I woud like a break from it. Perhaps later Lulu could persue Nick.

[kathie000]

Did anyone ever figure out why Nick even liked Lulu?

Boy aren't you a stickler for details.

[tikvah]

watching nick and lulu is painful. trying to guess what emotions (if they actually have any) is plain boring. how did they ever communicate enough to even get together to conceive a baby? too bad they can't run little dialogue blurbs to show what may (and that's a stretch) be going on in their minds when they look but don't speak.

[ExplainItAgain]

OK, I'm going against the grain here. I loved this episode. This is the first time I've felt sorry for Lulu at all. She's sort of trapped into this relationship with Nick now.

Word to the person who said that Nick is in love with Lulu and she is not in love with him. He's finally figured out that she's not in love with him and it's driving him crazy.

I don't think Nick and Lulu have any chemistry together, but I really thought the scene where he tells her in bed was well done. I bought the acting in that scene, even if the rest of the show leaves much to be desired.

And Simon Baker in a speedo...Simon Baker in pin stripes...Simon Baker in hooded sweatshirts...siiiiiigh. He's quite a specimen of hunk.

ETA: And I STILL hate the Suzanne character. Never gonna like her.

Edited by ExplainItAgain, Jan 7, 2004 @ 2:03 PM.

[wxchick]

I found myself wandering during last night's episode ... mainly because I'm addicted to the latest Texas Hold 'Em poker craze: Celebrity Poker.

That said, I agree that Suzanne is a skank, but, hey, I think Nick is looking for some warmth. Sex with a warm, if skanky, body ... one that has a heartbeat ... is more than he'll find in cold-as-a-corpse Lulu's crypt ... er ... bed.

I do love the drama between Nick and Burton.

[Milz]

Trapped? Lulu's not trapped. She can easily do what Nick said: take the baby, tell the courts that he's a probationer who's broken some terms of his probation, and she'll never have to deal with him again.

Burton summed up Nick as selfish. Well, I think Lulu is just as selfish: doesn't want to get married, but has no problem taking out a 20 year mortage with Nick; doesn't have the guts to tell her dad she doesn't want him at her house, so she moves in with Nick. Nick might not be a "man" as Burton said, but Lulu ain't no adult either.

[ExplainItAgain]

I meant trapped in the sense that If she's going to have a baby with Nick, they are going to have to have some sort of relationship. She could take the baby and leave, but she never would. Not only because this is fiction and that would never make sense for the show, but also because that's just the way Lulu is. She's bringing trouble on herself. If she loves Nick, they should get married and live together. If she doesn't love him, she should move out and try to maintain a civil relationship with the man who is her baby's father.

They are both selfish up the wazoo.

[tk2003]

Anyone notice that there is absolutely no chemistry between Nick and Lulu tonight.

This is new? !

And let's see, they've had her in a car wreck, and given a the job offer in CA , and still can't get rid of her. Yep, must be that dimple or the deer urine.

I really enjoyed Burton wth Nick, first all fuzzy offering the managing partnership to Nick, then angrily withdrawing it later (now there a hazard of partnership in the family).

Interesting to see how Nick's visits to Suzanne Pell were so sly and ambiguous; both times he looked to make sure no one was watching before he went inside the door--like he could have been visiting his dealer.

Amusing to see Nick stumble in to his dad's house with an alchohol buzz on, and there's Burton sitting alone with his big fancy bottle (which he did not offer Nick:).

BTW, I haven't kept up this season, but has Burton moved house? His digs looked different from what I remembered.

The story about the boy, whose father had gunned those people at Kane Industries was sad.

[tk2003]

If she doesn't love him, she should move out and try to maintain a civil relationship with the man who is her baby's father.

Absolutely, but she'd lose her meal ticket I guess. Wow, self-centered queen -- nice try trying to get a bigger house out of him. Nick should cut loose from this arrangement.

[Priya]

...she'd lose her meal ticket I guess.

Lulu is the Director and boss of Nick so she must be paid, and plus she does own her own home. I think this show is a reveal of modern life. So many of us want it all, but are unprepared to match up the responsibilities that come with the privileges. I love this show SO MUCH! It handles delicate issues wonderfully. Kudos to the writer for deftly summing up the expression "complicated" oft used on TV drama. It has come to imply graying up of moral dilemma where one could have his cake (and pie!) and eat it too. Nick, Suzanne and Lulu are adults but certainly don't act like it in their personal lives.

I also love every cool scene with Nick and Burton!

[ExplainItAgain]

Kudos to the writer for deftly summing up the expression "complicated" oft used on TV drama.

Oh, yes. I loved the scene in the house where Nick said things were complicated and Burton asked what that meant and Nick gets angry and says he doesn't know. I love seeing Nick get mad and show some emotion. It happens so rarely that when it does it's powerful.

[royvac]

As I was watching this ep I kept thinking this show must have the least dialogue of any hour long drama. All the actors can express an awful lot with just a look. Especially Simon Baker. I can get lost in his face.

Loved Burton telling Nick some truths. He has been selfish and not using his impulse controls. I do love the way Nick interacts with the kids. There again he says very little. He's not a false cheerleader that kids can see through in a minute.

Love everything about this show. Except Lulu.

[Priya]

As I was watching this ep I kept thinking this show must have the least dialogue of any hour long drama. All the actors can express an awful lot with just a look.

Yeah. Just like a foreign movie. There ought to be (English) subtitles whenever Nick silently emotes to verbally interpret what is going on in his head. Any surprises to our guesses, I wonder.

[lutile]

I loved this episode. Loved all of the Nick/Burton conversations. When Burton confronted Nick he was, to me, the perfect picture of a father facing something unpleasant about his child. Facing his son’s weakness did not come easily to him. He not only called Nick on his selfish behavior, he took a stand and let Nick know he would not tolerate it. This scene was so beautifully portrayed by both Dabney and Simon, and so realistically written.
Agreement with the person who said Nick and Lulu are both selfish. I would add childish to that. It is like their maturation came to a halt somewhere along the way

As I was watching this ep I kept thinking this show must have the least dialogue of any hour long drama. All the actors can express an awful lot with just a look. Especially Simon Baker. I can get lost in his face.

So true, I am completely absorbed in him whenever he is onscreen.

Sometimes I do see chemistry between N/L, but not this ep or in 'Swimming' I have always thought is is there when they want it to be, and not when they don't.

Finally, I think he went to Suzanne because she liked him, wanted to be with him, made him smile, appreciated him, offered him warmth. Most importantly, imo, she did not judge his 'moral fiber' and find him to be lacking. I think he has been missing these things with Lulu, and he needed them,especially after her harsh rejection of his proposal.

[Milz]

Re: facial expressiveness of the actors (sans Lulu, imo)
Hollander should take a cue from Joss Whedon and do an episode without dialogue, similar to Whedon's "Hush" episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. SB and DB would do well, I think.

I'd just like to know what Lulu will do next. She dumped Brian because he was cheating on her with those hookers. Will she dump Nick too?

[kwnyc]

...Lulu should perhaps examine why the men she's involved with feel the need to find comfort elsewhere...

But, you know, I doubt she will. She'll probably do something like get involved with Jake, so he can convince himself he's really straight, and she can get REALLY crushed when he finds comfort in the arms of a man.

[Priya]

I wonder about Suzanne as a social worker. She does a great job and really cares about children. However, her lifestyle leaves me begging the question how she entered this profession at all. IRL, you should see the candidates in this field, especially for Social Work. They are hand picked which is obvious, once you see the crop of individuals emerging into the field. From my vantage point at a university, I see the selected student with the face of an angel, coming from a very healthy family background, is soundly grounded in her own life, has excellent judgment, perfect marriage, perfect husband, etc. Eric Close, from Without A Trace’s real life wife is a prime example.

Suzanne Pell is intriguing. But sadly, she is ending up dismissedas a loose canon (and worse). The older, attractive social worker is more of the stereotype in the field. But I enjoyed the little I have seen of Suzanne. She’s done her job in widening the cracks in Nick and Lulu’s relationship. She'll eventually burn.

Edited by Priya, Jan 8, 2004 @ 5:46 PM.

[tk2003]

Hollander should take a cue from Joss Whedon and do an episode without dialogue, similar to Whedon's "Hush" episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

DH could learn a lot from JW about relationhips too;I remember thinking last spring he should have watched Spike'n Buffy before launching the Nick-LuLu ship. (Thrilled someone mentioned JW!)

[tk2003]

...Lulu should perhaps examine why the men she's involved with feel the need to find comfort elsewhere...

Hehe, the similarity crossed my mind while watching this last ep. And if I trusted the writing of the relationship I'd agree she should do that. But Lulu seems to be a really weak spot with DH/TG so that's not gonna happen.

[isoup]

However, her lifestyle leaves me begging the question how she entered this profession at all. IRL, you should see the candidates in this field, especially for Social Work. They are hand picked which is obvious, once you see the crop of individuals emerging into the field. From my vantage point at a university, I see the selected student with the face of an angel, coming from a very healthy family background, is soundly grounded in her own life, has excellent judgment, perfect marriage, perfect husband, etc. Eric Close, from Without A Trace’s real life wife is a prime example.

Wow. You sure don't come from the same part of the world that I come from.

And... what's wrong with Suzanne's lifestyle?

[queasy]

I love seeing Nick get mad and show some emotion. It happens so rarely that when it does it's powerful.

I agree. I enjoyed this ep a lot because of it, and can't wait for more of the same next week. Tears! Complete psychic breakdown! Mystery woman who comes to save Nick!

I also love the way the writers consistently work in their parallel storylines, especially the father/son client relationships versus Nick and Burton's relationship.

Aside from the mystery of why Nick loves Lulu, what does she see in him? He's never treated her well, or tenderly, or even shown her much respect. She knew he was Frozen Caveman Lawyer when she started dating him. Gotta be the urine thing.

[lutile]

I wonder about Suzanne as a social worker. She does a great job and really cares about children. However, her lifestyle leaves me begging the question how she entered this profession at all. IRL, you should see the candidates in this field, especially for Social Work. They are hand picked which is obvious, once you see the crop of individuals emerging into the field. From my vantage point at a university, I see the selected student with the face of an angel, coming from a very healthy family background, is soundly grounded in her own life, has excellent judgment, perfect marriage, perfect husband, etc. Eric Close, from Without A Trace’s real life wife is a prime example.

This comes as a surprise to me, because it is quite different from what I have seen.
It has seemed to me that many people involved in social work and counseling have had some of these experiences in their own lives, or the lives of someone close to them.

[Milz]

She'll probably do something like get involved with Jake, so he can convince himself he's really straight, and she can get REALLY crushed when he finds comfort in the arms of a man.

LOL!

Re: Spike-Buffy v. Nick-Lulu. In a way, these relationships are sort of similar. Nick clearly loves Lulu (I can't figure out why though). I think Lulu loves Nick, but she doesn't love him as much. Nick, like someone else pointed out, is beginning to realize that. Spike realized Buffy didn't love him, "as much". I just hope Nick doesn't sacrifice himself to save the world.

Speaking of Buffy...where's Alvin? He's been relegated to a Xander role so far hasn't he?

totally unscientific poll question...
Do you think.
a. Lulu will give birth to the baby without complications
b. Lulu will give birth to the baby with complications (herself and/or the baby)
c. The baby isn't Nicks
d. Lulu loses the baby
e. Lulu gives birth to the baby and puts it up for adoption.
f. Baby?! What baby???

Edited by Milz, Jan 9, 2004 @ 11:57 AM.