704 replies to this topic

[mara]

I never really made the Sam Beckett=Mary Sue connection before reading this thread. I mean, I knew that he was the perfect fan-fic crossover character, and had read some good 'Sam leaps into show xyz and keeps it from shark-jumping'. But calling him a Mary Sue really helped me put my finger on what used to irk me about some of the episodes, when his intervention seemed like he was a tool for alleviating a writer's white-guy guilt, or a sort of presumptuous hindsight like the writer was saying "If I'd been around, I could have save Monroe, Jackie O." etc.

I adored QL though. I'm especially fond of the episode where Al became the leaper, because sometime before the episode aired I'd been speculating with a friend about future episodes we'd love to see, and I'd brought up how funny it could be if they switched places, so when it actually happened at the end of Shock Theater, I just about died laughing. And I loved most of the drag episodes (though the one with the bra-burning housewife was one of my least favorites. Not a good look for Scott)

I can't wait for the dvd's. I really hope that they use the original season 1 opener, though. I know they redid it for season 2 and onward, and I always found the second version too over the top somehow (too emotional?). It's been so long since I heard the original, that I can't really remember what it was, but I just remember watching the season 2 premiere and cringing at the change. But the Deborah Pratt interview I saw about the season 1 dvd mentioned re-doing the 'saga sell', which made me nervous.

[cbe]

Does anyone know if Sci-fi will be resurrecting this show? I would love to see it again.

[keckler]

I'm not sure what you mean by "resurrecting" but Sci-Fi has been airing the old episodes for a while now.

For instance, on January 21st, Sci-Fi is airing all the eps between (and including) the premiere and ep 1.4. On Feb. 11th, they're airing ep 1.5-2.1.

Edited by keckler, Jan 3, 2004 @ 2:06 PM.

[cbe]

Thanks for the info. I'll mark the date on my calendar.

[Willowbrook]

De-lurking for just a second...

What annoyed me most about the final episode wasn't that Sam never returned home, because it always seemed to me that Sam made that decision. I was annoyed that Sam fixed Al's history. While it seems nice from a sentimental perspective, it changes the entire character of Al. Now, when I go back and watch old episodes, I have to remind myself that the "new" Al wouldn't say or do half of the things he did. He certainly wouldn't be womanizing the way he was, and much of his cynical edge would most likely be lost. I hate when shows feel the need to rewrite their own history (for example, Angel and Voyager.) Other than that, I loved the series, and I was pissed when it got cancelled.

[mara]

I was annoyed that Sam fixed Al's history. While it seems nice from a sentimental perspective, it changes the entire character of Al.

I had a similar feeling -- I felt that by giving Al back his marriage to Beth, and the ominous "Sam Beckett never returned home" placard, it meant that Sam had erased their friendship. And, as important as Beth had been to Al, he'd proven over and over in the series that Sam was now the most important person in his life. In a way, I felt like it cheapened the sacrifices that Al had made, like giving up his shot at getting liberated in the Vietnam episode.

But I was also upset at the idea of Sam never returning home. I mean, aside from the fact that his poor wifey was left with nothing but Ziggy and the constellations, it was drummed into our heads every week in the opening credits that Sam is wishing for that 'leap home.' I agree that his decision to continue leaping was a noble act and a kind of logical progression in his growth as a heroic character, but it just did not satisfy me as an ending for the series.

[keckler]

Al wouldn't say or do half of the things he did. He certainly wouldn't be womanizing the way he was, and much of his cynical edge would most likely be lost.

Wait, I'm confused. The Al I knew always made it obvious in word and deed that he had quite an eye for the ladies -- Sam was always trying to keep him from spying on some when they undressed.

[Ailiana]

But a lot of Al's womanizing, and sexualization/objectification of women is traceable to his broken heart when he returned from years in a POW camp to find out that his wife (whose memory had kept hiim going) had given him up for dead and married someone else.

[Sea]

I vividly remember screeching in outrage at the "Sam Beckett never returned home" placard. Blech.

[RiverThames]

...and his so called "best friend" skip his turn to receive quantum help to save his older brother.

A reason why I love the "trilogy" of MIA/Leap Home/Vietnam. I think Al is pretty aware that the POW to be saved is him, and that would be all he has to tell Sam to send him charging to the rescue, even though it would likely cost Tom his life. I love it when he says, "What the hell. I get repatriated in four years."

[mara]

I vividly remember screeching in outrage at the "Sam Beckett never returned home" placard. Blech.

I think I just sat there in stunned, teary disbelief. I'd always looked forward to Sam and Al finally getting to HUG each other after all those years of incorporeality, and then they went and ended it with a great big placard saying NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. Not only did Al never get to welcome Sam home, that placard to me said that Al was never going to figure out what had become of Sam (if the memory of their friendship hadn't been swallowed up by the alternate timeline, that is), and had never had a chance to say goodbye. The last conversation they had in the episode had no closure. Sam got closure, making the choice to go on leaping, and starting it off with getting Beth back for Al. But the last Al saw of Sam was him seeming to be in the middle of a nervous breakdown, and then he would have been gone entirely, and Al would think he'd failed him and never know that Sam was leaping voluntarily.

Maybe that's what really burned me about the episode. I didn't think that Al would remember both timelines (since he wasn't participating in the leap) so as far as he'd know, he would always have come home from Vietnam to find Beth waiting for him. So he'd never know what Sam had done for him, he'd only know that he'd failed to get Sam home.

[nqllisi]

But did it say that Al was no longer going to be leaping with Sam? Whether or not you add "Sam's unconsciousness" to the God, Fate, Time, whatever scenario, I think that the QL project was still going to be facilitating his leaps.

Sad as all heck, maybe, but I still think the end is perfectly appropriate. Real heroes make real sacrifices.

[keckler]

Plus, didn't it leave the show open for follow up? I mean, who would be that interested in the revival of a show when they thought everything was tied up neat and tidy? And, it elicited a deep emotional reaction from viewers -- something SOME shows around here could learn about.

[nqllisi]

Hmmm, which shows could you possibly mean?

Yeah, I think having an ambiguous, unsettling ending has made the show stick in people's minds even more than it would have just on the basis of being a really good show.

[Hobbes16]

Sad as all heck, maybe, but I still think the end is perfectly appropriate. Real heroes make real sacrifices.

Word. I thought the ending was perfectly sad and perfectly appropriate, too.

[mara]

But did it say that Al was no longer going to be leaping with Sam?

The more I think about it, I'm not sure exactly how I reached that conclusion nqllisi. Aside from ye olde epilogue-placard-of-crushing-doom.

Maybe it was also a problem of expectations. Like when a show goes into a long hiatus period on a cliffhanger, and you have many weeks/months to imagine what's going to happen when the series picks up, but then when it does the episode glosses over some subplot that you had imagined the heck out of? So I'd had years of looking forward to a great reunion scene, only to find I'd never get to actually see it. I know it's a noble heroic ending for Sam, but I can't help that it left me feeling betrayed by the show's writers.

I'll just keep my fingers crossed that we really will be getting dvd's in the next year or two. I want to see the episodes without the syndication cuts for time. (I especially remember spotting the cuts during the Samantha Stormer episode -- like Al ogling Sam in the bathtub.) I would hope for a tv-movie or revival of the series, but as much as I'd like some more closure, I think I'm too afraid of it sucking to get completely behind it.

[sonneta]

Have you guys heard anything about the QL TV movie supposedly (?) coming out this year? There's an IMDB listing and some speculation on the IMDB listing. Is this for real? And, if so, how much will it suck?

[keckler]

Sonneta, if you read a few pages back in this thread, you can see what some of our speculations are in relation to that very topic.

[RiverThames]

The more I think about it, I'm not sure exactly how I reached that conclusion nqllisi.

When the episode first aired, it was a pretty common specualtion. Many people felt that saving Al's marriage to Beth would write Al out of PQL, or somehow set Sam adrift to leap without any homebase support.

[nqllisi]

I guess I never made that assumption because I knew that they'd intended to have another season with both lead actors. Since they were obviously planning on keeping Al around, I never considered any other scenarios.

A nice hug would have been good, though.

[RiverThames]

Sam didn't know Al was one of the POWs to rescue until after the fact. As for Maggie winning the Pulitzer, she never would have won it without Sam's influence-- he's the one that got her on the mission. Else she wouldn't have gone at all, and never gotten the shot.

[bigmonster]

Ya'll are being too hard on Sam. Not only did he not know that saving his brother would sacrifice Al's rescue, but he didn't know it would result in Maggie's death, either.

[mara]

Then again I hated “trilogy” cuz - no matter how amnesic - Sam WAS married at the time he had his daughter

Trilogy creeped me out. Not so much because Sam was still married, but because of the wierd pedophilia/incest vibe. There was something bizarre about his relationship with little Abigail, and when he leaped from being her father to being the fiancee making out with teenage Abigail squicked me out to no end.

[Ailiana]

It took me a while to remember which episodes were involved in "Trilogy"--until the Abigail comments. But I had no idea she was supposed to be his daughter. I really liked that mini arc, but I think it may be totally different if I think she's his kid. Where does that piece of information come from?